[PF] Can a Fighter stay relevant in Rise of the Runelords?

[Neknoh]

Having read the intro to the player's guide, I'm looking over my choice of character, my first being a fighter, and I wonder if he'll be able to stay relevant in a campaign where giant slaying is apparently going to be a frequent thing (or so the player handbook has led me to believe).

Starting at level 1 (if we are, I don't quite know yet, need to speak to DM), I'm looking at a twohanding human Fighter with Power Attack, Furious Focus and likely Weapon Focus, but, being entirely new, I'm just not sure a Fighter can stay relevant when the campaign seems to call for something with spiky damage, will I deliver as I level up?

If not, would a cleric be a stronger, more enjoyable pickup? There are so many, many ways to take a cleric that it is, in fact, a bit daunting to get into Cleric Creation so to speak, but it is my second choice after Fighter and I guess I should keep a spare Cleric in case I get stepped on or somesuch.

Also, please try to avoid spoilers, I'm going into this campaign as a new player with no knowledge of it other than what little was handed to us in the form of the player-guide, and I'd like to keep it at that (if possible).

[Dusk Eclipse]

Generally speaking Fighters can be really good at one thing and that is killing other things, so combat-wise you should be fine, however you should ask yourself "Am I okay with combat being my only meaningful contribution during 20 levels?"; if the answer is yes then a Fighter should be perfectly viable, but if it is not you should consider other classes. To continue with your cleric example, they can be extremely strong combatants while still having tons of options (in the form of spells) to use if hitting people with pointy sticks isn't the best option.

Yes, they are more complicated to build, but I personally find them much more enjoyable to play than fighters, having said that there are other classes slightly less complex (Oracle, Magus, inquisitors for example) that are still far more versatile than fighters.

[Baroncognito]

Yes, a fighter can stay entirely relevant. That said, I encourage you to play a halfling fighter with the Risky Striker feat. You don't need Risky Striker for the first four to six levels, but it's good damage.

Be a halfling Titan Mauler.

[Bigbeefie]

I've played Rise of the Runelords and found it to be Enjoyable. Our party included a Paladin, Sorc, Cleric, and Rogue. It was an uneven party as we didnt have much in the way of Battlefield control. The Sorc was just a blaster and didn't invest in anything none blast like. So we had quite a few deaths that set us back on Money which hurt a lot this campaign.

These are the things I recommend for a party make up is this

First a WIZARD or a WITCH (INT caster). First and foremost this is a Wizard campaign and the loot dropped for Wizards is awesome tho a witch can profit just as much...Especially if you lean evil you can use all sorts of drops. My party was good aligned and not being able to use a lot of loot made my group about cry. Secondly invest in some control type spells. Third for the Know skills as they are a must in this campaign. Know Arcane, Planes, History, Nature, and a few points in Local. are you big ones this go around.

As for the rest of the party you will want 2 people who can dish lots of damage to end the fights. Paladins, Rangers, Fighters, Rogues, Inquisitors, Barbarians, and Monk all do fine. Paladins have plenty of Smite targets to make them Viable combatants this go around and the Saves bonus goes a LONG way.

Lastly the fights in this Adventure path are brutal....also later games fighting casters is nasty business....Having someone to fix problems is a near must for a group that seems to be newer to the game. A Cleric does pretty nicely in this campaign. Tho they aren't the damage dealers they fix problems or protect from them before they arise.

You asked about a fighter and I say they are defiantly Viable. I would recommend either a pure 2-handed fighter or a Switch Hitter Fighter. Build them with some good damage output and then focus in on your Will and Fort saves. Lastly Let me tell you about the feat Big Game hunter. Take this at lvl 7. It was made for this campaign and will serve you well from books 3-End of Campaign.

Good build for RotRL is this:

Human fighter 20 point buy (Two-Weapon Fighting Fighter Archetype)
Str: 18 dex: 13 Con: 16 int: 8 Wis: 13 Cha: 7

Feats:
Human:Power Attack
1:Cleave (rewrite at lvl 4 or lvl 8 to Toughness as you see fit)
2:Weapon Focus- Falchion
3:Iron Will
4:Weapon Specialization- Falchion
5:Improved Iron Will
6:Improved Fortitude
7:Big Game Hunter
8:Improved Critical- Falchion
9:Greater weapon Focus- Falchion
10:Critical Focus
11:Critical Versatility
12:Greater weapon Special
13:Staggering Critical
14:Critical Mastery
15:Martial Versatility (pre-req for Martial Mastery and yes it is that good of a feat for a human.)
16:Martial Mastery
17:Stunning Critical
18: go 1 Lvl Barbarian and get rage for more Str, Con, and +1 Will Save.


With this build you should survive at later Levels and also be ending fights quickly. Though I do recommend haveing a ranged Damage dealer in the group as well to start the hurt early so you can just charge in and kill/finish off the target and reduce the chances of them retaliating with damage on you. If they are dead they are no threat.

[Bigbeefie]

Yes, a fighter can stay entirely relevant. That said, I encourage you to play a halfling fighter with the Risky Striker feat. You don't need Risky Striker for the first four to six levels, but it's good damage.

Be a halfling Titan Mauler.

Beyond the first book you will see only 1 creature drop aything for a small character....you will have to buy everything and the -str and natural 20ft movement will hurt you in the long run. Yeah it is cool but this campaign leaves very little room for error come fighting and dealing damage...so I recommend avoiding a small damage dealer unless you go Paladin Charger and use a small lizard mount that can climb walls and enter dungeons...Smite damage makes up for lack of Str.

[ArcGygas]

As someone who has run RotRL to completion twice (both times as a GM), I have seen a Halfling Two-Weapon Fighting Fighter with Risky Striker and Power Attack ruin some of the later encounters. All of his bonuses came from stuff not related to strength, and I watched that chubby little bastard take Rune Giants down at the ankles.

But, to answer the OPs question; yes, fighters are viable from start to finish, so long as you don't expect to do much outside of combat. Don't let that discourage you, though. The aforementioned Halfling was a blast because the character was interesting. He didn't have a lot of skills or knowledges, but that didn't stop him (and led to some hilarious antics when he pretended to know).

[Teh_das]

I agree with the suggestion of a titan mailer barbarian. You stay just as relevant in combat, and get rage powers to tailor your build as you see fit. Plus, the theme of a titan mauler against giants is wonderful.

[Neknoh]

Bigbeefee, how much of an evil lean are we talking about for the wizard?
Are we talking a need for Lawful Evil or just a leaning toward it by being neutral?

[Bigbeefie]

Bigbeefee, how much of an evil lean are we talking about for the wizard?
Are we talking a need for Lawful Evil or just a leaning toward it by being neutral?

Your best bet would be lawful evil. You don't need to go around doing evil all the time just the alignment but if you don't have a party who would be upset with the use of a few evil items (robe of the archmagi-evil) as 2 drop in the campaign. The occasional evil spells that could help in various situations. Like to me I don't care about raising a dead corpse up and letting it aid you till it dies again being just another meat puppet. That is evil but because open necromancy is unlawful I would kill the puppet myself before I left, and I wouldn't necessarily turn it on the town or let it live in the dungeon I just finished either. I just recommend using a few evil type spells to solve puzzles or use Summon monster to summon evil things to fight for you (as they are more powerful then the good SMs and immune to a lot of the evil spells flying your way)

The best Evil wizard in a good party example I can find Is Raistlin from Dragonlance. In the books he teams up with a good priestess to help him fight against the queen of darkness. Now unknown to her he wants to replace the God with himself but they joined together to defeat the God as a working good and evil party.


Like if I had to do this campaign over I'd totally roll up a Lawful evil Human witch focusing Augmented+superior summons, Improved Familiar-imp @ 7, and Greater Spell focus-Necromancy. Hexes will help with not running out of spells and help lock down enemies saving your real spells for moments that matter. I'd also be rolling in High $ gear/loot/artifacts with multiple staves at the end. While the cleric is crying about only 1 item seems to drop for him a book.

Though fighters get a sweet hookup at the last book to equal out to the wizard drop-fest. Tho a lot of other classes are just back seated in drops.

[Baroncognito]

Most of the evil aligned items I remember aren't particularly great for Wizards. I mean, skinsaw masks and what not?

Maybe it's because we have a crafter in the party, but I can't say I've ever been too disappointed about not being able to use the drops.

[Bigbeefie]

Most of the evil aligned items I remember aren't particularly great for Wizards. I mean, skinsaw masks and what not?

Maybe it's because we have a crafter in the party, but I can't say I've ever been too disappointed about not being able to use the drops.

Robes of the arch magis, anivma archive and its many evil spells like blood money, staff of hungery shadows, revalation quill, the spear from book 2, the cauldron artifact, talons of leng all come to mind.

Some good evil spells that work wonders like death knell, animate dead, bloodworm infestation, death wine.

Its just a suggestion and will allow for a lot more fun then being a lawful stupid goody good group.

[Alleran]

Paizo's APs generally aren't designed to be particularly difficult, so a Fighter can stay relevant (if supported by a party, naturally) without too much trouble.


Robes of the arch magis, anivma archive and its many evil spells like blood money, staff of hungery shadows, revalation quill, the spear from book 2, the cauldron artifact, talons of leng all come to mind.
Besides a robe of the evil archmagi, these aren't necessarily evil (Blood Money does not have the [Evil] tag, for one), and things like the Revelation Quill or the Talons of Leng don't need a spellcaster. The Anathema Archive is basically a Scroll Of Any Spell Ever With Some Downsides artifact, so as long as you've got UMD and Spellcraft ranks you should be fine.