[3.5] Illumian Archivist/Beguiler theurge

[Thurbane]

Hi all,

Without using too much cheese/infinite loops, and using Illumian as the race and Archivist and Beguiler as the only base classes, how much casting can you get on each side by level 20? 9ths on both would be perfect, but if it comes down to one or the other, 9th in Archvist would be preferred.

Cheers - T

[Jeff the Green]

Well, the nice thing is that Versatile Caster lets you turn your 8th-level slots to cast beguiler 9s (and MTs aren't exactly hurting for slots), so Beguiler 1/Archivist 2/MT 10/Legacy Champion 7 would get you casting as a Beguiler 16 and Archivist 17.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Archivist 3/Beguiler 1 (versatile spellcaster)/Mystic Theurge 10/ Legacy champion 6 gets you 18 effective Archivist levels and 16 effective beguiler levels (enough for 9th level spells via Versatile Spellcaster); I suggest you fund your own legacy weapon, as printed they are aweful.

I must ask, why Archivist and Beguiler? They both have some really good class features and it seems like a waste to theurge them, since Archivist can potentially get all beguiler spells as divine spells and scribe them on his prayerbook.

[Thurbane]

Archivist and Beguiler mostly Int based, and I like the Archivists ability to nab new spells into his book from many lists, and I like the Beguilers "know all spells of a level" mechanic.

Isn't there an argument that Legacy Champion cannot advance MT beyond 10 pre-epic, or if it does, you get MT's awful epic casting progression?

[Gemini476]

You need something to get you entry into Arcane Hierophant (trackless Step as a class feature), but you'll get near full advancement from that.

Your first feat is Improved Sigil (Krau). That's non-optional. Or you could take it at level three I guess, but you want it at one of those two levels. Free Heighten gets you casting and early entry, which is probably why you took the class in the first place.
Versatile Spellcasting+Heighten can get you both classes early access to Mystic Theurge if you want to swap race.

Beguiler 1/Archivist 1/Druid 3/Mystic Theurge 5/Arcane Hierophant 10 is the basic build. If you can find a way to get Trackless Step with less levels than that, go for it. As it is, however, you only get 16 levels of casting in each class. You can fix the Beguiler casting with Versatile Spellcasting, but the Archivist's is hopeless.

The big option here, I suppose, is to use Bamboo Spirit Folk as your race and go Beguiler 1/Archivist 2/Mystic Theurge 7/Arcane Hierophant 10, but then you need to use Versatile Spell+Heighten for early access and your DM might veto the Trackless Step racial feature as not being the same as the class feature. 18th for Beguiler and 19th for Archivist.

The boring option is Beguiler 1/Archivist 2/Mystic Theurge 10/X 7, where X advances Archivist. 19th for Archivist and 11th for Beguiler, but it's really, really boring. You can get sixth level spells from the Beguiler or just swap 'em for Archivist spells with Versatile Spellcaster, I suppose.

Beguiler 1/Archivist 1/Bard 1/Mystic Theurge 10/Fochlucan Lyrist 7 seems like a good idea, but then you need to get a Ring of Evasion and get your DM to have it count for prerequisites. It's also pretty boring with a lack of class features, but it gets you 18th for both Archivist and Beguiler.

Remember, a Beguiler can still cast ninth-level spells with Versatile Spellcaster as long as they get at least 16 levels of spellcasting. The Archivist needs 17, though.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Archivist and Beguiler mostly Int based, and I like the Archivists ability to nab new spells into his book from many lists, and I like the Beguilers "know all spells of a level" mechanic.

Isn't there an argument that Legacy Champion cannot advance MT beyond 10 pre-epic, or if it does, you get MT's awful epic casting progression?

Probably, but without legacy champion extension I don't know if it is possible, bloodlines are another way but I am not familiar with them.