Elemental Warrior

[QuintonBeck]

So in an upcoming game I'm running I have a player who's thinking he may want to go with some sort of wind based melee warrior. Searching around I came across the Elemental Warrior PrC which while simple seems to be exactly what I'm looking for except that BAB requirement.

http://dndtools.eu/classes/elemental-warrior/

Like, wow, it's kinda a lackluster PrC overall and you have to be Level 7 to qualify? Anyway, I was thinking of dropping the BAB requirement to +4 but I was wondering if that's too low? I don't feel that it is but I wanted to get some other opinions.

Also, I'm open ears for other Wind Based melee classes or the like. Nothing is set yet.

[(Un)Inspired]

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/3429956

I think this might be perfect for what you're looking for. It's an entire build instead of just a prestige class but it's beautifully put together, incredibly well explained and makes uses of just about every cool wind spell in the game.

[Gemini476]

Isch, that is pretty bad. +4 BAB seems like a bit of pointless requirement when you need to have been to the elemental Plane of Air, though.

Actually, I think that class is meant for Rogues. Weird.

What are the big benefits, then?

1: Speak Auran and get Resistance 10 (Electricity)
2: Class level times per day, 1 minute where ranged attacks against you get 20% miss chance
3: Class level times per day, 1 minute where weapon deals 2d6 extra energy damage
4: Flight 20 (perfect) while in light or no armor
5: 1/day, melee touch attack that deals 10d6 bludgeoning damage with a DC (15+CON) fort save to negate being knocked prone

Ideally, I guess that 10d6 damage should be received around level 10? Also, the fourth level ability is what tipped me off that this probably wasn't meant for fighters. Rogues get +7 BAB by level 10, which is conveniently the level after the Cleric gets Plane Shift. Which just makes the class worse, to be honest.

But yeah, it's a strange little class.

For an elemental warrior, have you considered the Psychic Warrior? I'm fairly certain it has some powers that can be refluffed in elemental-sounding ways, although I may be wrong.
I guess the Wu Jen and Shugenja are also all about the elements, but those are more casters.
Maybe there's some elemental substitution levels lying around somewhere?

[Yogibear41]

Pretty sure someone is going to say just play a TOB class and pick "wind" based maneuvers, but he could also try playing a divine gish and prestige class into something with an elemental feel like The Elemental Archon from faiths and pantheons its only 3/4 bab but get some elemental type abilities and followers.

Windwalker is in the same book is full divine casting and full bab, requires +5 bab and alot of skills, and a few feats looks like it was made for a ranger entry but you could just as easily take a few levels of cleric or druid or something and choose to advance its casting instead. 2 levels of air elemental shugenja could get you started and only lose 1 bab.

[QuintonBeck]

While I like the look of that build it seems very setting specific and while I have no issues refluffing some that one seems to rely heavily on Dragonmarks and the Eberron Houses and we're not playing in Eberron.

Could be it is intended for Rogues, which is just weirder. I was planning to waive the "been to an elemental plane" requirement or refluff it as "was contacted by an air elemental" or something since this is to be a build for a 7th level character. Maybe I'll say the BAB req is 5. Also, looking at the class it doesn't seem like you have to stick with one element necessarily, though that'd probably be more thematically appropriate, but the other 4th level abilities don't seem that roguish and honestly flight is good for everyone.

I would love to usher the player towards Psychic Warrior because I love Psionics but unfortunately Psionics don't exist in this setting (yet) and so that's a no go.

Don't mean to be a party pooper, I feel like I'm shutting down ideas but I'm not trying to and more help is appreciated!

[(Un)Inspired]

What kind of wind powers does the player want?

[QuintonBeck]

I was thinking ToB for entry class is pretty likely if I can shake it. I like the look of Windwalker, but this player isn't much of a caster, he really likes hitting things mostly.

If I'm understanding him right I think he wants to kinda be Aang from Avatar but with more hitting of things with weapons.

[(Un)Inspired]

Wellllllllll... It's gonna be a little tricky for your player to be able to use wind magic without playing a character that can actually cast magic...

That's why I suggested the build that I did. If it not for you for setting reasons then that's okay.

Maybe he could play a character that has spells but isn't a full caster? How about a bard with the air bloodline feat. He gets a bunch off cool wind powers including control winds (the best wind spell) and bards are better at whacking people in melee than fights or rogues anyway.

[QuintonBeck]

Yes, I know no casting but with casting is nigh impossible, this player likes being difficult...

I was contemplating bard and I do like the look of that feat but I'll have to see if I can convince the player that bards are cool tomorrow. I appreciate the help!

[(Un)Inspired]

Yes, I know no casting but with casting is nigh impossible, this player likes being difficult...


Have you tried clubbing him about the head and neck with a DMG? I find it does wonders for both player cooperation and DM catharsis.

[QuintonBeck]

Have you tried clubbing him about the head and neck with a DMG? I find it does wonders for both player cooperation and DM catharsis.

Hahaha, I try to restrain myself since he actively avoids casting which can be the source of a real headache but sometimes I just wish he'd go that direction since he wants all the cool magical powers from it....

[(Un)Inspired]

Are you planning on building the character for him or just giving him suggestions?

[Xerlith]

This is a ToB-based system (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13096132&postcount=161) that may be just what you need.

Check out the Spellshape Champion (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=854.0) or + the Blustering Gale (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=857.0) school.
Wind-based warrior right there. Tanking-focused though.

Sublime Shaper (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2737.0) may be a better fit - it makes explicit use of ToB disciplines though - I'd give him electricity-refluffed (Or slashing - that's what damage wind would do...) Desert Wind + Shadow Hand and call it a day.
Or this. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177063)


It's homebrew, but the balance of the whole system is nigh perfect - Tier 3 all the way (Some maybe approach T2, but are far more balanced).

ToB-Only: Swordsage 20. Shadow Hand and Desert Wind do everything you want.


EDIT: Simple fix for the Elemental Warrior:

BAB req: +4, gives Full BAB.


To bump it up further (With ToB! (tm)):

- Make it require a 2nd level maneuver to enter
- give it the Bloodclaw Master's maneuver progression, with a stance gained at 4th level, choice from the Desert Wind school, with different damage (let them choose from fire, electricity, acid and cold) - the same as the one you have Elemental Affinity for.
Finished!

[QuintonBeck]

I'm going to give him suggestions, let him choose, and then build the character with him. This is his second d&d game and while he's got a general understanding of the rules he still needs help with character creation.

Dang, I like the look of that Homebrew. I quite like ToB and that looks like a cool magic version of it but I'm weary of having to learn a whole new subsystem. I'm already having trouble keeping track of what I've got already. I'll definitely show it to him though and if he likes the look of it we'll go that way.

Wow, I didn't even notice it lacked full BAB ;P If he does decide to go the Elemental Warrior direction direction I'm definitely taking your suggestion and rejiggering it as a ToB PrC.

[Vaz]

There is a 3.0 Dragon Magazine containing Monks of the [Compass Point] wind, 314.

IIRC, North Wind is a Druid/Monk PrC, which advances Wild Shape (half rate, I think?), and Monk abilities.

South Wind was a Rogue based monk, providing Air Themed Spells, Sneak Attack bonuses, and Air Domain.

East Wind is an Arcane Advancement, granting a Familiar, while West Wind I think is the Cleric, providing an additional domain.

Of course, these provide spell casting which may not be for you. If you can make a Lawful Barbarian (losing the Rage feature for something); requires Uncanny dodge, then that could be pretty cool.

[infomatic]

What about either an Air Shugenja/Monk/SacredFist or Sorcerer/Monk/EnlightenedFist, just picking up air/wind based powers? Not especially optimized, but the flavor's there.

[QuintonBeck]

The player played a monk last game (well, it was one of the many classes he bounced around into) and I've seen the air based Monk-like classes before but I'm afraid he's completely incapable of playing a Lawful character. He was dubbed "Chaotic Chaotic" as his alignment in the last game so monk just doesn't fit his nature as a player.

I should be talking to him later today and we'll figure out what he wants to go with. I'll let you all know how it ends up or be back to ask more questions if he stumps me again.

[nedz]

He might be better with a Race or Template

Air Gnome or Air Mephit are possible, but not really any good for hitting things.

Raptoran might be better.

D’hin’ni (descended from a Djinn and a Lightfoot Halfing) (DR351 p54)
LA+1 but quite nice, if only it wasn't small.

Windrazor (MM4 p179) 2 RHD (Outsider) and LA+2 but it might work.

Templates
Half-Air Elemental (MotP p188)
LA +3 but some nice SLAs which may wean the player onto casters.

Air Elemental Creature (MotP p191)
LA +4, better flight but dull otherwise; and expensive for what you get.

I've avoided options with very high LA.

[Osiris]

What about either an Air Shugenja/Monk/SacredFist or Sorcerer/Monk/EnlightenedFist, just picking up air/wind based powers? Not especially optimized, but the flavor's there.

Air Shugenja. My thoughts exactly. I didn't know how to make it a warrior, but then I saw the stuff above. Brilliant.

[infomatic]

He might be better with a Race or Template


D’hin’ni (descended from a Djinn and a Lightfoot Halfing) (DR351 p54)
LA+1 but quite nice, if only it wasn't small.



Hey, he wants to be Aang. Guy's tiny.

[Plerumque]

There's the Giant's Elemental Infiltrator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9623257&postcount=8). It's a rogue PrC, so it might not be what you're looking for, but it's a bit more interesting mechanically than the Elemental Warrior.

[infomatic]

TI'm afraid he's completely incapable of playing a Lawful character. He was dubbed "Chaotic Chaotic" as his alignment in the last game so monk just doesn't fit his nature as a player.


Could've dropped out on monastery when he started hanging around the crazy air cultists. Sacred Fist doesn't have to be lawful. You could also could do a fighter2 prefix, though it's a bit of a waste

[Xerlith]

I'm already having trouble keeping track of what I've got already.

Well, basically it's not much - if you get ToB, it's the same - just that there are quasi-stances (one per school, must take a feat to use it) - Numen

And Incantations (4ed-like) that also need a feat and are school-specific. My group never ever used them though, despite playing with this system for over a year.

Finally, if you are willing to wait, I can homebrew a class (base or prestige, your choice) that suits your tastes. :smalltongue:

[Nightraiderx]

So you want the power of the wind without the wind huh?

I haven't seen anyone suggest this:

Scout Base grab dragontouched, draconic heritage (sonic dragon), dragonfire strike, expeditious dodge, travel devotion, improved skirmish

Now you are a skirmishing fast moving medium bab warrior with lots of skill points, no need for lawful alignment and possibly twf. Sonic (closest to wind) damage on attacks.

[infomatic]

What about casting doesn't he like? You could just stick with buff spells and some damage-enhancers (as long as they're in keeping the with flavor): Invisibility, Haste, Heart of Air and so on.

[Grayson01]

Paladin of Freedom and Non-Deity Specfic StormLord. Or Just Cleric StormLord with ether the Storm Domain or Air Domain.

[QuintonBeck]

Thank you all for the help, I really wish I could come with a conquering story of triumph regarding a good decision that utilized the vast and amazing resources and help provided but he decided to go Bard... He said he changed his mind and wanted to focus more on social play and so Bard was chosen. (I'm reconsidering my choice not to whack him about the head with a DMG)

Of course, being the guy that I am I can't stop thinking about making an elemental based warrior now. Probably as an NPC in this very campaign, so rest assured your efforts aren't wasted. Thank you all for the help, once again the Playground proves a plethora of knowledge and assistance.

[(Un)Inspired]

You can still be a bard with wind powers. Just take the air bloodline feat. Also reflavor your bardic music as "making the wind sing". Have you ever played Wind Waker?

I would still give the player a sound drubbing with the DMG for good measure.

[Xerlith]

I would still give the player a sound drubbing with the DMG for good measure.

This might not be a bad option now that I think about it.

Well, I've got an idea for a class thanks to this thread, so it's not fruitless anyway, I guess.

By the way, he doesn't want to build a full-blown *shudder* socially-focused bard, right? Right?

[Elric VIII]

Have you considered Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327)?

The flavor will have to be adjusted slightly, but the abilities fit what I think an air warrior should be able to do.


Speed and mobility through the extra actions, spring attack features, and the Celerity spells.

Teleportation and flight come from spells.

There are spells that enhance your weapon with elemental damage.

You can protect yourself with a "barrier of air" by using the Shield and Mage Armor spells, along with the miss change of Swiftblade.


Off the top of my head I'd say something like Battle Sorcerer 6/Swiftblade 10/Battle Sorcerer 4. I know battle sorcerer is seen as a bad option from a caster standpoint, but some people may like the lack of decisions to make and the less caster-ish feel. Just enough spells to be used as special abilities, without stepping on the toes of the main casters.

Grab the ACF that trades your familiar for normal metamagic times, take Quicken Spell, and True Strike all day while yelling something like "WIND BLADE!" and power attacking for 20.