Hide while charging

[GhengisConrad]

"It's practically impossible (-20 penalty) to hide while attacking, running or charging"

Help me make it possible. I want to Hide in Plain Sight... while making a straight on charge to the mother. (... and then pounce of course!)

[Codyage]

I just did an ECL 10 sneak build for a one shot.

Race:Skulk
Classes:Up to you

ECL 1:Skulk Level Adjustment Class
ECL 2:Skulk Level Adjustment Class
ECL 3:Skulk Level Adjustment Class
ECL 4: Dark Template


Skulk gets you racial bonuses to Move Silently and Hiding. Dark template gets you Hide in Plain Sight in everything except natural daylight, a daylight spell, or similar. You also get an untyped bonuses to Hide and Move Silently. Skulks have a very nice ability that lets them get no penalty while moving/running to hide. Also divination spells dont work on them unless a caster can make a check. In addition to this, They get racial bonuses to DEX, but penalties to CHA, and WIS.

That with Skill Focus(Hide), Stealthy, Darkstalker, etc. Cloak of Elvenkind, and a +2 masterwork item to hide and move silently.

With those in mind, assuming you get an 18 to DEX, get a +2 item, and raise it while you level. You can get a 54 to Hide, and a 37 to Move Silently without even rolling. If you can get invisibility on, that Hide turns into a 94 without rolling.

I did Warlock for my build to grab Darkness, Invisibility, and Entropic Warding to avoid detection. All though their are still other things to find you, versus a natural spot check, they need a minimum of 95. Assuming you roll a 1.

The warlock stuff can be nixed if you get say a wand of invisibility and stuff like that. I merely did Warlock for fun. So if you bought a ring of invisibility, and used the above, you still get a 94 to hide when standing still, and a 74 to hide when moving.

For the rest of the build, you can pretty much do what you want, do note however, many things can find still find you through scent, tracking, life sense, detect thoughts, detect alignment, etc. If they spot you, well...yeah they will know you are there. Darkstalker will negate some stuff, but alignments, life, and thoughts, are still other matters.

[sideswipe]

at level 1 you can get a whisper gnome with 2 flaws to...

4 ranks =4
20 dex =5
small =4
racial =4
skill focus=3
stealthy =2

= 22 in hide.

there is a feat as your 3rd level 1 feat which makes attacking from hiding only a -16 penalty not -20

so you average 32 on your check and get - 16, so your hide is 16 average.

most fighting classes wont spot you but rangers/ rogues have a chance.

i bet someone can get something else without spending money on magic items.

remember this is level 1!

[D4rkh0rus]

Dont forget 3 lvls of factotum to add Int to Hide and Move Silently. (and other nifty things) + once a day +fact lvl to hide and MS.

[Codyage]

at level 1 you can get a whisper gnome with 2 flaws to...

4 ranks =4
20 dex =5
small =4
racial =4
skill focus=3
stealthy =2

= 22 in hide.

there is a feat as your 3rd level 1 feat which makes attacking from hiding only a -16 penalty not -20

so you average 32 on your check and get - 16, so your hide is 16 average.

most fighting classes wont spot you but rangers/ rogues have a chance.

i bet someone can get something else without spending money on magic items.

remember this is level 1!

Hengeyokai Sparrow Level 1 with one flaw

4 ranks =4
23 dex =6
Fine = 16
skill focus =3
stealthy =2

= 31 Hide

However, just as the whisper gnome, you wont be good at charging. Also, that feat is Able Sniper, which lets you get a +4 when Sniping, not charging. Now, if you wanted to attack from the shadows with a bow, that could work. In the case of the Hengeyokai Sparrow, a footbow may work, but that is up to the DM.

In any case, if you want to charge, you don't want to do it with races that are more keen at melee.

Now, if you want, you can just grab two levels of ninja, and get invisibility, which won't break when you attack since it isn't a spell. You would get Sudden Strike, and if you grab the ki feats, you can get invisibility that lasts longer, and can be used several times a day.

Since Invisibility gives +40 to hide when standing still, +20 if you move. This automatically negates the penalty to charging.

So, if you decide to go dual wield whisper gnome, you get a 22 to hide without rolling. With the average 32 or 33, you will be doing pretty good on that front.

Edit: Since you only get one attack with a charge, grabbing a greatsword, or a weapon that gives 1-1/2 strength and power attack could be good. Still, you can only turn invisible once a day, unless your wisdom is high.

[Keld Denar]

Dread Commando lets you move silently at full speed with no penalty. I don't remember about hiding.

[OldTrees1]

Well you have 3 levels in Umbral Disciple, 2 Levels in Totemist, 2 levels in Incarnate, Shape Soulmeld (Totem Avatar), Open Shoulder Chakra, and you cannot rely on items at your table.

You have 3 Totemist Soulmelds, 3 Incarnate Soulmelds, 1 feat Soulmeld (Totem Avatar)
You have 3 Chakra binds (Totem, Shoulders and Crown are available)
You have 6 essentia, 2 is allocated to Embrace the Shadows for the Hide in Plain Sight effect so you have 4 remaining.

Soulmelds that boost hide:
DISPLACER MANTLE = +4+2xessentia competence bonus to Hide
KRUTHIK CLAWS = +4+2xessentia competence bonus to Hide and Move Silently
LAMIA BELT = +4+2xessentia competence bonus to Hide and Bluff
SHADOW MANTLE + Totem Chakra = +4+2xessentia competence bonus to Hide and Listen
WORG PELT = +2+2xessentia competence bonus to Hide and Move

So with 23 ranks and Kruthic Claws(4 essentia) you get Hide of 1d20+35+Dex

[Zubrowka74]

Invisibility + silence ? I was working on a sneaky Magus build in PF but did not quite finish it. You get Vanish at level 1. You don't blow you invisibility until you actually swing at something, so sneak attack. Even easier in 3.5 since it's not just giving you +20 on Stealth checks (or does it ?) so you just add the feat Keld Denar mentioned.

[Keld Denar]

Its actually a PrC in Heroes of Battle. Sudden Strike is a little meh, but is a solid full BAB chassis with a nice skill list.

[GhengisConrad]

Well you have 3 levels in Umbral Disciple, 2 Levels in Totemist, 2 levels in Incarnate, Shape Soulmeld (Totem Avatar), Open Shoulder Chakra, and you cannot rely on items at your table.

You have 3 Totemist Soulmelds, 3 Incarnate Soulmelds, 1 feat Soulmeld (Totem Avatar)
You have 3 Chakra binds (Totem, Shoulders and Crown are available)
You have 6 essentia, 2 is allocated to Embrace the Shadows for the Hide in Plain Sight effect so you have 4 remaining.

Soulmelds that boost hide:
DISPLACER MANTLE = +4+2xessentia competence bonus to Hide
KRUTHIK CLAWS = +4+2xessentia competence bonus to Hide and Move Silently
LAMIA BELT = +4+2xessentia competence bonus to Hide and Bluff
SHADOW MANTLE + Totem Chakra = +4+2xessentia competence bonus to Hide and Listen
WORG PELT = +2+2xessentia competence bonus to Hide and Move

So with 23 ranks and Kruthic Claws(4 essentia) you get Hide of 1d20+35+Dex

I love it... but we play that open chakra doesn't grant an extra chakra point.

That's why I take incarnate. And then shapesoulmeld (totem avatar) for the incarnate. So I can use the opened shoulder chakra with the incarnate with totem avatar.

I'd love to be proven wrong, it'd make my build even simpler and open even more options, but it seem abundantly clear to me that without a chakra point to spend, you cannot bind on an open chakra.

[Greenish]

There is no such thing as "chakra points".

[Curmudgeon]

I think the idea is that an Open {Least/Lesser/Greater} Chakra feat allows you to bind a soulmeld to that chakra slot if you have a chakra bind available. However, none of these feats state that they also grant a chakra bind, thus a non-incarnate character cannot bind any soulmelds. If you want to make a comparison with Extra Chakra Bind [Epic] (Magic of Incarnum, page 213), it's incongruous that a low-level feat would grant more than what that Epic feat does.

[GhengisConrad]

I think the idea is that an Open {Least/Lesser/Greater} Chakra feat allows you to bind a soulmeld to that chakra slot if you have a chakra bind available. However, none of these feats state that they also grant a chakra bind, thus a non-incarnate character cannot bind any soulmelds. If you want to make a comparison with Extra Chakra Bind [Epic] (Magic of Incarnum, page 213), it's incongruous that a low-level feat would grant more than what that Epic feat does.

This + A Brazilian.

[thewiredone]

There is a spell in Complete Adventurer called accelerated movement

[GhengisConrad]

oh really? How interesting. ;-)