[3.5] Nerfed Beguiler

[Thurbane]

Just a hypothetical:

How badly nerfed would the Beguiler be if -

A.) You changed it to Cha based casting (instead of Int), and
B.) You removed most of the non-Illusion/Enchantment spells from it's list (i.e. Slow, Haste, Solid Fog)

Just curious, no need to go all flame wars on the "why" of it all.

Would it still be a better class than, say, the Warmage?

Cheers - T

[nedz]

Cha based casting would improve it's social skills for the cost of skill points. I would still expect Int to be used as a secondary stat though.

A 1 level dip in some other full casting PrC would still open up Shadow Conjuration via Advanced Learning so the spell removal would be a minor issue, at least for BC.

[hymer]

Just answering 1, the rest would be guessing on my part, never having seen a warmage in play.

Charisma casting might actually strengthen the beguiler a bit. The really powerful skills for the beguiler are UMD, bluff and diplomacy, all charisma-based. They'd also need ranks in Concentration, and they'd like some knowledges, but the bread-and-butter beguiler skills seem to become stronger if you make them charisma casters.

[Khedrac]

Beguilers can have very little to do when the party is fighting undead (or similar). Haste/Slow etc - i.e. the spells you want to remove - are pretty much all they can do at these times. Be prepared for the beguiler's player to either get very bored or dangerously inventive (as in game-breakingly inventive).

Also as buffs/crowd controls they are usually a way for the beguiler to make the rest of the party shine rather than doing it all him/her-self.

If you can cope withthose two issues, then the spell removal is OK.

The Charisma actually makes a lot of sense. Beguilers are skill-heavy (yes I know they always want more skill points, mine does anyway) but they should be able to handle having a couple fewer. You may find them ignoring some areas (like stealth) and becoming a diplomancer on top of their casting though, and you just made it easier for them to do so...