Why I want them wings (another 'talk me from the ledge' post)

[GhengisConrad]

3 reasons.

1. I (at least used to) shadowpounce. And what I didn't want to have happening, was that I shadowpounce right on top of a flyer... and then fall to my doom. And worst of all, then have to get back up there some how.

2. In my table's world, magic is a beautiful, useful thing, but often limited by its uses (did you know there are 14000 rounds in a day?) or even worse, anti-magic spells that... well... that just shut you down.

3. Anything your not born with isn't a guarantee in my table's world. Grafts? Good luck. Better be able to acquire them through a class feature. Items? Only if you can build or loot them. And good luck not having them looted from yourself. Its a violent world of adventuring out there. If you wanna venture in the wilds, you better prepare to get mugged.


So thats how we play, and thats why I force myself to have anthropomorphic animals, or worse, to blow feats upon feats on such jackery...

sell me out! Give me a reason to give up with 'wing' obsession, so I can open my builds to more... pleasant accommodations for beating my adversaries to a pulp.

[Dread_Head]

The problem is that, as you've identified, flight is kind of necessary for mid-high level play as a melee character as otherwise too many enemies are untouchable. Actually for any character as it provides protection against many enemies that lack flight.
As a result I don't think you're going to get many suggestions not to take flight. Unless you're playing in the underdark or similar setting with low ceilings unsuited to flight. You could try to move your campaign to such a setting but that's probably not feasible. Or an underwater campaign, but again that's probably a bit specific.
Sorry if this isn't much help but you seem to recognise yourself the necessity of flight.

And if you can't rely on magic or items for it then as you say your limited to racial choices or feats neither of which are particularly great options. Some templates that grant flight are a better choice than races or feats such as
Dragonborn Wings aspect; not true flight at low levels but after level 6 should be good enough for most purposes. Does lock you into being LG and worshipping Bahamut though.
Unseelie fey template grants wings as well as some other nifty abilities for + 0LA.
Raptorans are also a playable LA0 race with scaling wings similar to Dragonborn and no stat adjustments if you're looking for something different to Anthro animals for flight.

[nedz]

There are 14400 rounds in a day.

There are many other options for flight.

Half Fey or Warlock can get you wings 24x7 from quite low level.

Sorcerer with Fly can allow you to fly whenever you need to.

[OldTrees1]

Um, Flight is one of the things on the List of Necessary Items (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187851) and Mundanity and how to overcome it handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11381.0). I cannot in good conscious advise against being able to engage flying enemies.

[Alefiend]

Grapple as part of your pounce.

Alternatively, only adventure where the floor is very soft.

[GhengisConrad]

Grapple as part of your pounce.

Alternatively, only adventure where the floor is very soft.


This is interesting. What if I fail my grapple check? Maybe then I just pounce on back up... anything that can at least give me a safer landing?

Monk slow fall I guess... but that takes so many darn levels....

[TroubleBrewing]

This is interesting. What if I fail my grapple check?

In my experience, it's better not to. :smalltongue:

[Eldariel]

Honestly? Antimagic and such don't tend to extend from air to ground, especially not when deployed in such a manner that you can actually Shadow Pounce on them. As such, your flight should resume just fine and having a backup Potion of Fly, Featherfall or whatever helps. Obviously you could just also be a caster and not care; craft your own items, cast your own spells, life's good.

The ultimate fallback? 20d6 is the maximum falling damage; terminal velocity if you will. That's only average 70 damage. Most level 10+ characters should have no trouble taking that and walking it off. And yeah, if you aren't completely deprived of magic, Featherfall always solves it.


But yeah, magic items or GTFO. If you can't get them otherwise, craft them yourself. You only need 3 caster levels to take Craft Wondrous Items which has you covered anyways, and if we're talking Shadow Pounce it shouldn't be too hard to get (Telflammar Shadowlord qualifies you, for instance). They're stolen from you? Craft a new pair.

[Endarire]

If you're in midair and able to hover, failing to grapple a for means you should teleport out, make a DC15 Reflex save to grab a ledge, or otherwise stay up. Or you could just fall.