How do you like your villain(s)?

[Kato]

So, just because I am evil and love to watch people rip each others throats out and do other horrible things to each other I thought I'd ask what the title says: Which kind of villain do you prefer?

I used to think most people agree with my taste of morally ambiguous and well developed villains, but apparently there's also a large-ish group of people who like their villains to be just evil for the sake of it. Or for the evulz. Or because psychopaths are fun. And while, yeah, sometimes I am also entertained by someone who is evil just because being evil is fun, I tend to prefer villains who are just barely evil and could be good if some minor thing was changed.

So, which do you like? A villain you love to hate? One you can emphasize with? One who kicks puppies or one who slaughters people because they kick puppies? One who is just so powerful the heroes can hardly keep up? One who is barely able to stand up to his enemies? One who wins, one who fails, one who fails but in fact it serves only to further his plans?

(Just to clarify: This is not about good characters... that's quite a different issue. While there is certainly an overlap, it's about what features of specifically evil characters are preferred. Though, I guess the issue "evil vs villain" is also up to debate especially on this forum)

[FinnDarkblade]

I would definitely tend to agree with you in preference. The villain is one of the most, if not the most, important characters in the story. Thus, I like my villains to be well-developed characters with goals, personalities, and above all, justifications for what they do. Very few people actually think that they are evil, so I like my villains to have an at least somewhat plausible chain of reasoning for why what they do is right.

I also like my villains to be multifaceted characters. Very few people are always good or always evil. In fact, most people are neither most of the time. It's in those few rare moments that the good or evil of a person's nature shines through.

Now, that being said, in a world where villains are mostly normal people, it can really shake things up in a good way to introduce a villain who is consciously evil, someone who will run roughshod over everything and everyone in his path to get what he wants while holding true to the philosophy that it's the journey that's more important. This type of villain also gives you a chance to better develop your other villains. Do they just stand back and get out of the way? Are they impressed and motivated by this villain's unfettered mindset? Or do they perhaps offer some help to the heroes in the face of someone truly inhuman?

Some examples of my favorite fictional villains would be The Lady from The Black Company, Balalaika from Black Lagoon, Kellhus from The Prince of Nothing, Jarlaxle from the Forgotten Realms, and The Illusive Man from Mass Effect. Some of my favorite villains of the all-evil, all-the-time type are Heath Ledger's Joker from The Dark Knight, Alucard from Hellsing Ultimate, Johan Liebert from Monster, Agent Smith from The Matrix, and Screwtape from The Screwtape Letters.

[Sotharsyl]

I can sympathise, I was never a fan of for "the lulz" villain, I guess it's because I don't appreciate gore (which these types of villains inevitably indulge in) and trolling.

I remember a comic in which the Joker asked some valet to park his car and then the Joker got offended because the valet was scarred he'd be killed the scene ended with the Joker reminding people that he only kills when it's funny.

I literally face palmed, because I believe it was the author making a point, because with writers switching out and humour being so subjective the Joker will never have a pattern to his crimes anybody in comics is a potential target.

[Remmirath]

I suppose I ultimately prefer more fleshed out villains with complex motives, sometimes even those who are themselves fairly sympathetic. I generally do not prefer it if the villain is more sympathetic than the heroes, and it's clear that one is supposed to be rooting for the heroes -- that can be annoying.

I've also a fondness for anti-heroes, and those often cross over into villain territory.

However, it also depends on the tale in which the villain is a part. Some stories do quite well with villains that, taken out of context, I wouldn't be very fond of -- but I enjoy them a great deal in the context of that story.

[Hopeless]

I prefer my villains to have a reason for what they're doing and why...

If I have a sociopath who likes to kill lots of people its because of something that happened in his past that he can't cope with, the fact it might have been because he was vile and nasty but it never went beyond those that he particularly hated until...

I've been figuring out various rationales for villains in my game usually they don't survive long enough for that to get revealed but a Legend game that's in hiatus had a former woodsman who was accused of having murdered a fellow villager and was outcast so far the PCs have cost him a leg but that hasn't stopped him attempting to murder one of them and then trying to pin the blame on multiple targets with them only realising he was involved when they caught up with one of his fellow agents whom fled once he realised he had been framed.

But the core issue with that npc is that the villager he was accused of killing was actually turned into an ogre by the sorcerer he serves and his actions have been all about trying to save his friend before its too late unfortunately two of the PCs are nobles and the setting doesn't show them in a good light like some regular medieval era movies!

Even gone so far as to figure out the background for two super villain teams with one having a membership whose numbers rival a certain Legion and the other a potential patron for a variation of the Necessary Evil setting for Savage Worlds...

Still I prefer my villains to always be that one step ahead but far from the cliché moustache twirling ones unless they want their pursuers to think otherwise...:smallamused:

[Sith_Happens]

I like my villains sunny-side up with a side of bacon.

[Traab]

I like a bad guy that is, not genre savvy, but at least manages to avoid many of the evil overlord watchlist items. The kind of guy who hires guards that arent stupid enough to fall for the rebel girlfriend in prison acting all seductive. Or at least are smart enough to enter her cell in groups of three. (Hey, evil) I like my bad guys with real motivation. Something more complicated than, "I wil rul teh wurld!!" Smart bad guys with layered plans and reasons other than genre stupidity for what he does. Xanatos is of course the baseline for this sort of bad guy. I also like an even fight, or even an outmatched good guy. I HATE a curb stomp.

I like most bad guys, but I really enjoy the witty urbane ones that can switch it on and off in an instant. Say he invites an enemy over for a banquet. They talk, they laugh, he makes his pitch, the enemy refuses to join, BOOM head shot. Done deal. No elaborate scheme, no insistence on trying to change his ways, he is truly pleasant to work with or for, so long as you dont cross him. Another good example is the mayor from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Dude offers milk and cookies to his minions in between cutting the hearts out of little girls for demon sacrifices. Is always friendly, concerned about his people, and utterly ruthless to whoever opposes him. Rarely ever loses that air of slightly absent minded geniality, even when he has you bent over a sacrificial altar. "You know, you remind me of my grand daughter." /splurtch.

[Dienekes]

Well written.

[Terraoblivion]

In addition to what Dienekes said, the only thing I really need from villains is that they fit the story. Really, trying to make one size fits all villains seems like a recipe for really boring and predictable stories.

[Socratov]

well, to see what makes a good villain one must first consider what specific villains you like and the story they appear in.

For instance: the Joker. He is a magnificent villain who won't bore you because you don't know what he will do next (but then I guess, not even the writers know). He does not only have this barbaric and macabre sense of justice, but some actual values (see the Redskull situation).

Compare Havelock Vetinari. Technically a villain, but by grace of him being him he gets to keep existing. he is well mannered, often employs the help of the protagonists and he makes sure he always wins in the end through unforseen convoluted plans and a foresight an oracle would be most jealous of. While I love them both, they are as similar as a rock and an apple. With the only distinct similarity that they are both good at what they do: Joker at sowing chaos and discord, Vetinari at always having his way and keeping order.

To me a further characteristic I love in villains is the fact that they have a rebellious or scoundrellish streak. Villains have to have a little flair. I would never love an accountant trying to take over the world. Something to make you want to be him, or at least be his friend (in some cases a friend only by referral of a 10-foot pole). I need to sympathize with a villain for me in order to truly be invested in the story, whether that be something tragic, common sense or a way of setting things in motion one can only applaud. I noticed long ago that not the hero makes the story, but the villain. without a villain the hero can't be a hero. Should the villain be genre savvy enough to actually recognize this and al the while act on it, breaking the hero's frame of mind it's what makes a really good story. Just like I love my heroes to have a real and hurting heroic BSOD. To me it serves as a reality check. To me this is what redeemed The Dark Knight: the Joker plainly telling Batman that Batman needs him and that hey complement him. I once read a piece of fan-fiction in which the comic actually ends in Batman and the Joker both committing suicide because Batman is there to keep the Joker in check, while the Joker is there to counter balance the nature of Batman and evil. To me a villain should never be the final hurdle of a hero, but the driving force in the story.

[Eonas]

I like my villains like I like my protagonists: seriously ****ed up. Especially: the Joker, Dracula (and most vampires, actually), every Lovecraft villain ever. And then you've got the morally ambiguous 'protagonists' like most of Dostoevsky's protagonists, the Demon Barber of Fleet Street, etc. I don't know, I think just have a sort of aesthetic fetish for insanity and related effects.

[MLai]

To me a further characteristic I love in villains is the fact that they have a rebellious or scoundrellish streak. Villains have to have a little flair.
This is important. A villain without flair is a wasted villain slot. A hero often due to plot/ context cannot have said flair even if the author is a good writer. The villain, due to being unconcerned with and unrestrained by societal/ cultural perceptions of the readers, have the degrees of freedom for various flavors of flair.

To me a villain should never be the final hurdle of a hero, but the driving force in the story.
However, I don't think this is necessarily true. For example, no one is going to say Clint Eastwood is not the driving force in the story in the Man With No Name movies. And yet, he may be an anti-hero but he is far from the villain end of the spectrum.

Very few people actually think that they are evil, so I like my villains to have an at least somewhat plausible chain of reasoning for why what they do is right..
While this applies to a lot of multi-faceted intelligent villains, I don't agree with the opinion that ppl cannot actively see themselves as evil. You don't need rationalizations. You simply have to let go of all moral restraints and act according to your basest desires. Humans are bred to be empathic to others, but we also have the capability of switching that empathy on and off in the course of a single day.
Often the very fact that the evil act is socially taboo amps up the pleasure and thrill.
In D&D terms, it's the difference between Lawful and Chaotic Evil, I suppose.

[McStabbington]

Beyond the obvious answer of well-written, I'd say that what you need in a villain is some powerful reason for the heroes to oppose him. However much you may understand his position, the villain needs to be someone that has to be stopped if the world is to be a good, righteous and just place. A good example is the Operative from Serenity: by the end of the film, you perfectly understand the Operative as a person, and his actions are completely logical, sensible, and if you are completely ends-justifies-the-means kind of person, even justifiable, and yet it only serves as making it that much more satisfying that in order to truly win, Malcolm Reynolds has to not only beat the Operative, but destroy him.

An even better example is Captain Vidal from Pan's Labyrinth. That man has a complete package as far as writing goes: he's got a completely formed character, a narrative arc, a story that he uses to hold himself together as a person. And yet Vidal is absolutely, without question the most vile, reprehensible villain I have ever seen committed to film. Darth Vader doesn't come close. The Joker doesn't come close. Even Henry F. Potter from It's a Wonderful Life barely gets in the ballpark of this character. His opening scene is an example of cruelty so vicious and horrifying that I have never been able to watch it again. He keeps going from there. And at the end of the film, you understand Captain Vidal. You can see things from his perspective. And yet, all you want at the end of the film is for that man to die as slowly and painfully as possible, after seeing everything he hopes and dreams for die in front of him.

That's what I want out of my villains. I want them to be understandable, empathizable, and yet so malevolent that the world can only be made a better place if they lose everything.

[BeerMug Paladin]

In addition to what Dienekes said, the only thing I really need from villains is that they fit the story. Really, trying to make one size fits all villains seems like a recipe for really boring and predictable stories.
I agree with this. Villains come in many varieties, and there is no typical villain I enjoy, besides ones that are well written. As long as the villain fits with the tone and plot of the story, they're bound to be good.

If every villain were created with the same approach in mind, I would likely be bored.