Berserker!

[GutterFace]

Is the Berserker Barbarian alternate class feature from PHII viable?

is there a way to voluntarily get yourself to the HP threshold without waiting for normal combat to kick it off?

thoughts and tips are welcome :)

[Captnq]

The ASAs of rage:
HERALDIC CREST (FEROCITY)
- HEROES OF BATTLE (3.5)
Price: 6,000 gp
Property: Armor or Shield
1/day five rounds of rage.
Editor: There is a WSA that casts rage on the user as well. Combine it with this and you can have two rage a day. This gives you one more round of rage, which combined with various WSAs can give you up to 7 rounds of rage. So if you are a barbarian, or want to pretend to be one, this can be very cost effective.

The WSAs of Rage:
(Berserker, Brash, Crazed, Furious, Fury)
There are a number of rage enhancing WAs.
Extra Damage: If you are using a two handed weapon and like to rage, you need Berserker. It does an extra 1d8 damage. Fury only does an extra 1d6 while raging, but it works in any weapon.
Enhancement: If you want your rage to last longer, brash will have it last an extra 3 rounds. If you need an extra rage, or can’t rage at all and want to be able to rage once a day, then crazed is for you. It’s not as good as a true barbarian rage, but the other WAs will work while it’s activated, especially furious. Furious improves a barbarian’s rage and crazed to the same level of effectiveness.

[Metahuman1]

I've heard 2 readings of that AFC, one is very good, the other not so much.

On reading is that if you loose the HP based on your Barbarian HP, JUST your Barbarian levels worth of HP. This is good, cause you can dip in for 1-3 levels (there is no good reason to go past that.) and then start taking levels of Fighter or Warblade or Crusader or what ever class fits your fancy. I personally would use this one cause I like Melee to have nice things.

Also, in the case of this one, rig a trap to your weapon that will deal exactly X damage when you grab it or draw it, were X is enough damage to set off your Berserker AFC. That way, yes, you loose a few HP at the start of the fight but you get a spiffy buff. Just make sure you have a metric tone of total HP and some significant offense to keep threats form having a protracted chance to attack you and defense to stretch that HP pool so that you don't have to worry too much about it.



The other reading is not so good, and is basically that you can only have it active if you at half HP total. This reading makes it strictly inferior to pretty much all other Rage or variant there of features.

[GutterFace]

I've heard 2 readings of that AFC, one is very good, the other not so much.

On reading is that if you loose the HP based on your Barbarian HP, JUST your Barbarian levels worth of HP. This is good, cause you can dip in for 1-3 levels (there is no good reason to go past that.) and then start taking levels of Fighter or Warblade or Crusader or what ever class fits your fancy. I personally would use this one cause I like Melee to have nice things.

Also, in the case of this one, rig a trap to your weapon that will deal exactly X damage when you grab it or draw it, were X is enough damage to set off your Berserker AFC. That way, yes, you loose a few HP at the start of the fight but you get a spiffy buff. Just make sure you have a metric tone of total HP and some significant offense to keep threats form having a protracted chance to attack you and defense to stretch that HP pool so that you don't have to worry too much about it.



The other reading is not so good, and is basically that you can only have it active if you at half HP total. This reading makes it strictly inferior to pretty much all other Rage or variant there of features.


interesting. i haven't heard it interpreted that way but that is very interesting if was only Hp based on Barb levels.

[Person_Man]

My answer to your question is no. It keyed to your Barbarian level, so you need to go strait Barbarian 20 instead of Barbarian 1/Whatever 4/PrC X. And it encourages you to stay below 50% of your total hit points, which means you don't gain the benefits at the start of combat (when you need/want it most) unless you're perpetually walking around with low hit points, which is very dangerous.

[GutterFace]

My answer to your question is no. It keyed to your Barbarian level, so you need to go strait Barbarian 20 instead of Barbarian 1/Whatever 4/PrC X. And it encourages you to stay below 50% of your total hit points, which means you don't gain the benefits at the start of combat (when you need/want it most) unless you're perpetually walking around with low hit points, which is very dangerous.

I very much agree. it seems like this alternate feature is, most likely, a trap

[Pluto!]

I've heard 2 readings of that AFC, one is very good, the other not so much.

On reading is that if you loose the HP based on your Barbarian HP, JUST your Barbarian levels worth of HP. This is good, cause you can dip in for 1-3 levels (there is no good reason to go past that.) and then start taking levels of Fighter or Warblade or Crusader or what ever class fits your fancy. I personally would use this one cause I like Melee to have nice things.
Could you explain how this reading is justified, or is it a knowing handout to characters using a weak ACF?

I don't think I'm an unimaginative guy, but when I read "Whenever your current hit point total is below 5x your Barbarian level," I have a hard time envisioning the effect triggering sometime other than when a barbarian's HP are below 5x the character's barbarian level. So with a 1-3 level Barbarian dip, the ability would do absolutely nothing until the character' sat the brink of death, which is just unplayable with a dip, and still downright bad for straight classed Barbs.

[GutterFace]

Let's say for the sake of nonsense fun...

you have your Berserker Barbarian acf, and you only pump Str and Cha. all else are your dump stats...

and you get your DM to agree to let you take Brand of the Nine Hells as well as Mark of Nessus.

could you stab yourself to drop your HP, setting off Berserker and go bananas on people? with the hope that Mark of Nessus + a ton of Charisma will protect you as you turn people into a nice mush?

would you allow that as DM's?

[Metahuman1]

I very much agree. it seems like this alternate feature is, most likely, a trap

A lot of DM's rule it as such, yes. As I said, I've seen it ruled the other way, and that makes it pretty sweet cause you can self inflict for the cost of some gear 5-15 or so points of damage and just have a massive amount of HP/other defenses/really good offense and have a reliable buff that never runs out at the start of combat. Buy trap, install, take levels, take AFC's to taste. Boom. But a lot of DM's won't go for that.

Which, personally, I dislike, cause it's melee, they need all the help they can get usually.

Edit: Ninja'd.

The reading relies on the word barbarian. The idea is that you take 5 x your barbarian level in HP damage, or 5 x your hp total +1 damage, it triggers. And if you only have a small number of barbarian levels, that means it triggers rather quickly.

And yeah, it is kinda a hand out to sorta say "Thank you for not just being a Tier 1 class and doing it better along with everything else besides at all times.". A Generous reading so to say.

[GutterFace]

Let's say for the sake of nonsense fun...

you have your Berserker Barbarian acf, and you only pump Str and Cha. all else are your dump stats...

and you get your DM to agree to let you take Brand of the Nine Hells as well as Mark of Nessus.

could you stab yourself to drop your HP, setting off Berserker and go bananas on people? with the hope that Mark of Nessus + a ton of Charisma will protect you as you turn people into a nice mush?

would you allow that as DM's?


also can you be Lawful and still Berserk since it's not technically Rage?

[Eldariel]

A lot of DM's rule it as such, yes. As I said, I've seen it ruled the other way, and that makes it pretty sweet cause you can self inflict for the cost of some gear 5-15 or so points of damage and just have a massive amount of HP/other defenses/really good offense and have a reliable buff that never runs out at the start of combat. Buy trap, install, take levels, take AFC's to taste. Boom. But a lot of DM's won't go for that.

Which, personally, I dislike, cause it's melee, they need all the help they can get usually.

This feels like the wrong way to give them help - you're effectively punishing anyone going full Barbarian (even tho the class actually has some nice ACFs that make some of the latter levels consideration-worthy) and effectively making non-Barbarians better Barbarians than Barbarians.

Just because melee needs help doesn't mean it needs it in roundabout ways, especially since Berserker Rage doesn't address any of the normal melee problems. There are dozens of ways to make melee do such damage that enemies die in a turn; Berserker Rage merely adds to that. In addition, it's not actually that desirable to be permanently in Rage: it means you permanently take the Rage limitations which are hugely impairing (no command word/spell trigger/spell completion magic items, no Tumble & most Dex/Int/Cha skills and some feat limitations).


also can you be Lawful and still Berserk since it's not technically Rage?

Rage itself isn't limited, only Barbarian class is. By strict RAW you might not lose it if you subsequently change alignment tho. That said, there are ways to get Rage as a Lawful character (such as Half-Orc Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#halfOrcParagon)).

[Metahuman1]

Well, a straight/more invested Barbarian would still be better served with just regular Rage or Whirling Frenzy.

I don't think of it as making none-barbarians better barbarians, I just think of it as "Options A and B are best if your in the class for the long haul, option C, however, works better if you just want to get in and get Trap Smasher and a Totem or two and want a thing that requires less investment/upkeep then Rage/Whirling Frenzy to use with out it becoming more hassle then help.".

[CyberThread]

May i suggest werebadger if that is the playstle v you want.

[GutterFace]

May i suggest werebadger if that is the playstle v you want.

Can you give me a little more, i am intrigued.

[ShurikVch]

is there a way to voluntarily get yourself to the HP threshold without waiting for normal combat to kick it off?
Instruments of the Blood Gift set from MIC.
Barbs of retribution always keep your PC at -1 hp, and allow 1/day to force enemy to re-roll save with penalty. Maximal penalty is -5. Normally, you need to sacrifice sorcerer's spell for it, but (dragonblood) character are able to use hp instead. Penalty -5 cause 25 damage.
Also, Bands of blood rage (another component of set) 3/day grant blood rage
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mic_gallery/103376.jpg

[GutterFace]

hahahah awesome

[CyberThread]

If you get hurt you go into a rage yes?


Werebadger is, if you get hurt you go into an endless rage until the person that hurt you is dead, and you get no downside, besides that very big one.

[GutterFace]

RHD or LA on that?

is there a were weasel where i can drain their blood all while screaming

[GhengisConrad]

His love for you is like a truck.