[PF] What spells should have been nerfed or nerfed more?

[Jokunen]

What spells do you think should have been nerfed or just weren't nerfed enough from 3.5?

Also, there are some spells in additional products such as Blood Money (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blood-money) and Emergency Force Sphere (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/emergency-force-sphere) that I can't but just look at and wonder that what the hell were they thinking when they printed them.. Create Pit (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/create-pit) is probably too good, too.

[andreww]

Teleport
Planar Binding/Gate

Persistent/Dazing Spell and Spell Perfection should probably have never been published.

Most of the more potent battlefield control spells are still too powerful but that is more related to the way saves work and opposition is created than anything else.

[Spore]

Anything that ignores spell resistance. What's the point of SPELL resistance, if every other spell just flat ignores it? Most good ones do, as are spells, that do not give the target a saving throw.

Glitterdust; Black Tentacles, Grease, Summon Monster (tbh, this shouldn't give you automatic control), the balance between Resist Energy and Protection from Energy (the fact that a 2nd levle spell is more powerful than a 3rd one), Haste. Blessing of Fervor (yes, because giving clerics Haste is totally a balanced idea).

[Gemini476]

The trait Magical Lineage is worded in a pretty dumb way. It should have just been what Wayang Spellhunter is.
Speaking of WS, that should've been a magical trait. Or not at all.

Also, Paragon Surge. I'm not sure how it should have been nerfed, but it should've.

And magic in general wasn't nerfed enough in my opinion, but then again that's just my opinion.
If you wonder, I'm a proponent of cutting all spell levels above seven or doing like Next and having 1/day spell slots for spells over fifth (?) level.

Also, what on earth were they thinking when they made all XP costs into gp costs. GP is an infinite resource.

[Psyren]

Can I add "better defined" to that list?

Acid Fog was copypasted without addressing how it handles attended objects.

Simulacrum - JJ has said he wanted a time machine so he could create a "Simulacrum template" to help DMs decide exactly what this spell gives you.

Polymorph Any Object still needs work.

EDIT: Also, Polymorph and Greater Polymorph should just say that you can cast any polymorph type spell of X level or lower. That way things like Undead Shape and Monstrous Physique wouldn't have been left to flounder on the wayside.

EDIT 2: And there should be a polymorph spell to become an outsider (not just elemental.)

[Jokunen]

Teleport
Planar Binding/Gate

Persistent/Dazing Spell and Spell Perfection should probably have never been published.

Most of the more potent battlefield control spells are still too powerful but that is more related to the way saves work and opposition is created than anything else.

Yeah, Persistent/Dazing Spell are probably too good.. Dazing Spell would have been ok if it had a will save in addition to the normal save for the target to be dazed.


Anything that ignores spell resistance. What's the point of SPELL resistance, if every other spell just flat ignores it? Most good ones do, as are spells, that do not give the target a saving throw.

Glitterdust; Black Tentacles, Grease, Summon Monster (tbh, this shouldn't give you automatic control), the balance between Resist Energy and Protection from Energy (the fact that a 2nd levle spell is more powerful than a 3rd one), Haste. Blessing of Fervor (yes, because giving clerics Haste is totally a balanced idea).

I don't see most of the spells that bypass spell resistance as a problem, but the better battle control spells might be a bit too good.

Also, the spells that don't allow saves usually require an attack roll, and a lot of them are direct damage. I don't really see need for nerfing there.. and is Haste really too good? Blessing of Fervor does sound good though, haven't seen it used yet, so I dunno if it's too good.

[andreww]

The value of Haste varies tremendously by party. If your group is full of beat-sticks and archers then it is absolutely golden. If it is full of full casters then it probably isn't worth it.

[gartius]

my problem with blessing of fervor is the higher level of it. lvl 4 spell whereas haste is lvl 3. as a result my group sees it as weak in comparison.

[andreww]

Personally I much prefer Blessing. It is far more versatile offering lots of different options and useful ones for casters as well as martial characters. Yes it is a level higher but it is also a better spell.

[Spore]

Since we have one character that almost exclusively plays full BAB classes and another that never goes below 2/3 BAB, I have a lot of usage out of Blessing of Fervor. It helps vs. trips, gives something for chargers and even utility for casters.

We use it on all clerical characters regularly to an extent where it gets annoying. My 1. round action on my oracle is always Blessing, so that my companions will shut up already.

[Jokunen]

Since we have one character that almost exclusively plays full BAB classes and another that never goes below 2/3 BAB, I have a lot of usage out of Blessing of Fervor. It helps vs. trips, gives something for chargers and even utility for casters.

We use it on all clerical characters regularly to an extent where it gets annoying. My 1. round action on my oracle is always Blessing, so that my companions will shut up already.

Yeah, Blessings sounds like it's too good, I just meant that why regular Haste would be broken.

[Killer Angel]

Glitterdust; Black Tentacles, Grease, Summon Monster (tbh, this shouldn't give you automatic control), the balance between Resist Energy and Protection from Energy (the fact that a 2nd levle spell is more powerful than a 3rd one), Haste. Blessing of Fervor (yes, because giving clerics Haste is totally a balanced idea).

I don't know...
Yes, it's good, but, as you gain levels, more and more creatures will have too high a CMD to be affected by this.