So, how do you get new jobs?

[inexorabletruth]

I'm an auditor. It's a fancy term for bookkeeper. I'm kind of the math version of a copy editor. It feels more like I'm an accountant's imp minion, slaving feverishly under cover of darkness (night shift) to make work easier for people who are far better paid than me (accountants and CPOs).

Jk… it's not that bad. I just wish it paid more. Then suddenly, I found out it does.

I struck up a conversation (a rare thing for someone as socially awkward as I am) with an acquaintance who does the same thing I do, and with almost the same amount of experience, except he works for a bank and I work for a hotel. Only he makes $27 an hour and I'm scraping by at a miserable $10.60 an hour.

Wha-? Who?! Wha-?!!

Armed with this new information, I'm trying to better the life of my family and get the pay I apparently deserve. No more scraping by on food stamps in a tiny piss-bucket apartment in the slums. With that kind of scratch, I could get us a tiny apartment in a nice part of town, away from all the meth dealers and prostitutes! :smallcool: It's time to move on up!!

But how? When my business failed three years ago, we lost the house and moved into an extended stay hotel with the last of the money I had left. I kept looking for work, but nobody's hiring former business owners, because they have a tendency to come with a certain baggage. I got this job, basically by begging. I went to the property manager and offered to work for him for free if he let us keep the roof over our head. He declined the offer, because that's literally slavery, but liked my broken spirit, so he offered me a job. One drug test later and I was earning an income again! :smallbiggrin:

But if I ever want to provide a future for my son, I can't keep begging for jobs. I've got to get out there and take the job that will pay my bills so I can hold my head up high again! But how?

I know some of you out there have jobs with satisfactory pay. Of course you want more, but you're getting paid roughly what the market says you're worth. What I want to know is… how did you do it? How did you apply? Who did you talk to? How did you present yourself? How did you format your resumes? How many resumes did you send out? And do people still submit them in person, or do they do it all online now?

Also, are any of you in the same field as me? If so, are there headhunters for this field? Can you recommend one?

If these sound like derpy questions, please understand… I'm a bookkeeper. I don't have the arsenal of social skills that the average person possesses, and I haven't successfully looked for a job in almost 10 years. Over the last decade, I've either already been employed, owned a business, or begged for work… in that order. So please forgive my ignorance, but I need to know how to do this. My family deserves better than what I've done for them.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Personal networking. Applying to jobs only works for extreme low end (i.e. service industry), or extreme high end (where only a few dozen/hundred people even have your skills, or everyone knows you by reputation). Other than that, HR will shred 50% of the resumes, throw out another 25% for typographical errors, burn 12.5% because the applicant used Times New Roman and not Helvetica ("he's not a Mac guy and is therefore an old square"), laugh at another 7.5% of overqualified applicants, and finally get around to maybe seriously reading 5% of applications/cover letters.

Out of those, they'll still hire the guy who they made a great personal connection with without really checking his skills, because we all know the main thing about being an accountant, IT admin or scientist is a great handshake and strong interpersonal skills.

Anything beyond "my first job after finishing college," you're better off having lots of contacts who work for a lot of different firms in the industry you want to be in. You'd also have a better chance of actually landing a job if you talk directly to, say, the IT tech director if you're IT, or CFO when you're an accountant when he just got the greenlight to hire a new person than talking to HR.

Example: your buddy is an accountant? Well, talk to him. His bank might be hiring? You want to be there with a resume and a cover letter first thing next morning. Even if they don't hire you this time, there's a person willing to vouch for you and your resume is already on file. Don't frame it like, "my friend works here and could hook me up." Frame it more like, "My colleague that works here mentioned you might have an opening, and I have just the right qualifications."

That said, I live in Vancouver, where everyone is pretty much overqualified for pretty much any job that's available (Chinese and Indian culture of going to school for 20 years and lots of extremely experience immigrants that just need to pass licensing and English exams to work), so the job market heavily favours employers over job seekers.

[Nadevoc]

It's going to depend on your field. When I recently went through a job hunt, all my applications were online; for most positions, I couldn't reach an actual person to hand anything in to even if I wanted to. When I was referred to a job, it was a case of someone pointing me to a company (even their own) and saying to apply through their website. And everyone else I talked to who recently got a job in software had pretty much the same thing.

My friends in the restaurant industry had sort of opposite experiences; you had to show up in person, sometimes with a reference. Positions quite possibly weren't advertised anywhere.

Not sure in your line of work, but I'd say there probably are at least some positions being advertised online. Note that a personal in ALWAYS helps if you have it. I'd suggest checking indeed.com.

Resumes again differ a bit by what type of job you're looking for; you can probably find some samples for your field online. See if there's a career center or anything like that around; they have what are basically professional job seekers that can look over your resume and whatnot and give you tips. Double and triple check your resume and cover letter; it WILL be thrown out for a stupid typo.

[Jimorian]

What Don said bigtime. A referral might not get you the job directly, but it's often enough to get an interview, and that's 90% of the distance you have to travel.

One avenue for networking is volunteer work. See if some area charities need some bookkeeping work, or in your case, having an audit of their books is probably something they haven't even considered, and might benefit them quite a bit. Considering that a lot of donors are typically business owners in the area, and you've just done a service to help them be sure their money is working as intended, you now have an excuse to open other avenues of communication. There's also the point that some charities actually might have a budget to pay for such things, so knowing other organizations got good value from you gives you a leg up.

Now maybe things don't actually work that way, but I'm just trying to give an example of putting your skills out there in a way that opens doors.

[inexorabletruth]

Personal networking. -snip-

This is tricky. Personal networking is foreign territory for me. I'm not anti-social, but I'm somehow incapable of making and keeping friendships for any length of time. Back when I made good money, I had lots of friends. But if I can't buy someone's friendship, I really don't know how to get them. (I know that sounds cynical, but honestly, they disappeared pretty quickly when the money went away.)

But I did take your advice to the extent that I can. I talked to my new acquaintance. He says a lot of new jobs have opened up at the bank and he'd put in a good word for me. I don't know if he will or not, but it's a start.

Can you recommend another way to network? I mean… besides Facebook. That didn't go well for me.



I'd suggest checking indeed.com.

I've bookmarked indeed.com. Thanks for the tip! This looks pretty helpful.



One avenue for networking is volunteer work.
That's actually pretty clever. Back when I owned a business and made decent money I did lots of volunteer and community outreach work, and it was very rewarding. When the wall started crumbling around me, I just focused on protecting myself and my family and forgot to look outward. I think I'd like to give back to the community again.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Unfortunately, any advice I can give would generally be "go out and talk to people," which probably won't be super helpful as you've obviously not the personality for it - if I'm passionate about something, I try to go out of my way and talk to as many people as I can about it. One of them is I'll try to seek out like-minded people. "Hey, you've got a friend that likes X? That's awesome! Bring him along next time we're hanging out." I'm also more doing it for personal amusement than for, well, networking - the latter just comes at a bonus, with the downside that I won't keep in touch with potentially useful contacts unless I actually like them or find them interesting.

Facebook is absolutely not the place to do stuff unless you're a 19 year old web designer/nightclub promoter and want to work with other 19 year old web designers or club promoters for peanuts and bragging rights about being media savvy. You can try LinkedIn, I haven't used it myself and it's got mixed reviews from friends, but it doesn't hurt to actually have a profile up. Plus, you might be able to get a bunch of endorsements on there, i.e. from your friend, co-workers/current employer, clients from when you had a business, etc. Recruiters are known to look at it and even send people job/interview offers, though this varies place to place and industry to industry. It's completely irrelevant in science, but a rite of passage in IT.

All in all, from my high horse, I'd probably recommend you don't see it as networking, but rather as meeting new friends with similar interests. It works for me (though I'm an annoyingly inane extrovert with a million fleeting interests that I like to talk about), but it might also work for you on the basis of, well, common ground. Don't go in thinking, "hey, this guy might help me get a job." Go in thinking, "hey, this guy might make a good friend."

As for actually meeting people? Well, there's your acquaintance. There's also a reason things like social mixers are so popular - it's a chance to either network, or meet like-minded people, though they are probably outside your budget at the moment. Volunteering is a great option too: not only would you make contact with charities, build up experience/pad your resume, but you might also get in touch with your counterpart that works for the donor. There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying "well, I'm not quite happy where I'm at career wise, and I'm on the lookout for new opportunities, and right now I'm doing this to keep my skills sharp." Who knows, they might know a guy, who knows a guy, who needs a new auditor.

[eidreff]

I have been fortunate a couple of times, knowing people that knew people... as one of the posters above me said networking... however I have also spent weeks of plugging away at fruitless applications that received no response (over 300 applications at one point :smallannoyed:)

Try signing up for professional sites like LinkdIn or the equivalent. As a professional auditor are you a member of a professional body/organisation? Maybe they have a site that advertises vacancies?

Good luck with your search. I hope that you are successful!

[Douglas]

I got my current job by creating a LinkedIn profile. A recruiter contacted me based on that (and it was a bare bones profile, seriously), and some interviews later I had an offer.

The bulk of my job searching was simply posting a resume on a few online job sites and waiting for employers to call. I still get calls occasionally based on those postings more than 6 months after taking them down. Actively applying for posted positions will further increase the volume of calls, though the return per unit effort will likely be lower.

Now, I'm not in the same field, and my field is deep in the tech industry (software engineering), but I'd expect online job sites to still be effective for you even if they aren't as effective. The ones I specifically used were monster.com and LinkedIn.

The big thing to keep in mind for this kind of job searching is patience. A good referral will usually give you a very high chance of both an interview and an offer. Online job sites don't have that and compensate by volume. You will likely have a lot of applications, phone screens, and even interviews that end up going nowhere. This is normal. Don't get discouraged, and keep trying.

You will likely get a substantial cluster of calls within a day or two of initially posting your resume, followed by a much slower trickle of interest. Tweaking and reposting your resume later can prompt a new surge, though a smaller one. Some of the people who contacted me were recruiting agencies, not the employers themselves, and some of them would tweak and revise my resume before passing it on. You have to be careful with that - some recruiters are unethical and will insert blatant lies and exaggerations - but sometimes this can be a good source of formatting and wording changes to put into your original and repost.

[Surrealistik]

What Don said; pretty much networking for anything but menial or ultraexclusive jobs.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Jimor
One avenue for networking is volunteer work.

I would very strongly argue against volunteering as a job-hunting strategy. If you do something for free, then you'll be seen as someone who'll work for free. Even if you're doing something useful, you're already doing it for free, so why should they pay you?

Worse, many organizations that rely on volunteers are used to seeing them as interchangeable and disposable. There's a steady population of them, so no real incentive for the organizations to pay much attention to any particular individual.

[Don Julio Anejo]

I would very strongly argue against volunteering as a job-hunting strategy. If you do something for free, then you'll be seen as someone who'll work for free. Even if you're doing something useful, you're already doing it for free, so why should they pay you?

Worse, many organizations that rely on volunteers are used to seeing them as interchangeable and disposable. There's a steady population of them, so no real incentive for the organizations to pay much attention to any particular individual.
The point of volunteering isn't to work for companies that would pay you for it (that's internships), the point of volunteering is doing it for organizations that either can't afford someone or won't otherwise hire that person. I.e. many non-profits wouldn't splurge for an auditor unless forced to, but are quite aware of possible embezzlement.

Then, you can use the experience and references to work at real companies. I.e. you're not expecting a job at Goodwill, rather, you'd like to use Goodwill as a reference when you're applying at Wells Fargo so you look better than other candidates.

[Jimorian]

The point of volunteering isn't to work for companies that would pay you for it (that's internships), the point of volunteering is doing it for organizations that either can't afford someone or won't otherwise hire that person. I.e. many non-profits wouldn't splurge for an auditor unless forced to, but are quite aware of possible embezzlement.

Then, you can use the experience and references to work at real companies. I.e. you're not expecting a job at Goodwill, rather, you'd like to use Goodwill as a reference when you're applying at Wells Fargo so you look better than other candidates.

Plus the networking with other volunteers, donors, organizers, politicos, community leaders, artists... And this gets multiplied when several organizations start working together on larger projects in the community that required a lot of cooperation and communication to pull it all together.

This is particularly valuable for those on the introverted end of the spectrum because you don't generally have to toot your own horn that much when you're already out there doing stuff that's leaving a good impression on everybody involved. It also tends to level the playing field because a lot of the people working with you will consider you a peer first, even if in the workaday world you'd be several layers of management below them.

[Strawberries]

It probably depends on the field, and the country you're in, but personally, I can't recommend LinkedIn strongly enough. Both my partner (engineer) and myself (R&D, food industry) found jobs through it, and receive contacts/job offers at least every couple of months even if we're not actively looking. Might be worth a shot.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Don Julio Anejo
Then, you can use the experience and references to work at real companies. I.e. you're not expecting a job at Goodwill, rather, you'd like to use Goodwill as a reference when you're applying at Wells Fargo so you look better than other candidates.

Maybe in theory, but it would depend a great deal on the field, and whether the people you're applying to would care anything about your volunteering in an unrelated area. In my discipline no one would be impressed in the slightest by that; it would be seen as slightly cute at best. I don't doubt it may help in some cases, but it depends very strongly on the field.


Originally Posted by Jimor
It also tends to level the playing field because a lot of the people working with you will consider you a peer first....

Again, maybe in theory, but not that I've ever seen. The organizers of volunteer efforts tend to see volunteers as cheap labor and purely dispensible. The organizers have their own agendas and their own preconceptions. They want to use volunteers, not network with them.

[Douglas]

Again, maybe in theory, but not that I've ever seen. The organizers of volunteer efforts tend to see volunteers as cheap labor and purely dispensible. The organizers have their own agendas and their own preconceptions. They want to use volunteers, not network with them.
I think the idea was to network with the other volunteers, not the organizers.

[inexorabletruth]

Ok. You're all providing very helpful feedback.

But how do you write resumes? I've been to plenty of resume writing seminars and they all say different things. Some say, short and sweet. Other's say tell your story to personalize yourself with the reader. Some say, list all credentials and accomplishments from college on. Others say keep a list of only the accolades you received in your specific field. Some say to use this font, others say to use that font.

I don't know. I wrote a resume and I'm going to start submitting it en masse on Monday. But before I do, I was wondering what the Playground thought. No offense intended, but I'm only asking those who have gotten jobs by submitting resumes. The networking is a good idea, but that takes time to set up and get involved in. I'm going to start doing that, but I want to get those resumes out to the world ASAP, also.

[Strawberries]

Personally, I have always send a same-ish resume, but a personalised cover letter. The resume covers briefly my education and training, all the job positions I've had and (briefly) what were my responsibilities and achievements in each of them. The cover letter says why I think I would be a perfect fit for the job I'm applying to.

As for resumes, I've always used and seen used the European format:

http://europass.cedefop.europa.eu/en/documents/curriculum-vitae/templates-instructions

Obviously, it helps that I'm actually in Europe. But maybe it can be of interest regardlessly. :smallsmile:

[Feytalist]

First off: you're a bookkeeper. That means you at least have a set of specialised skills, ones that are a necessity literally everywhere there's a business, big or small. That's a plus. Keep your chin up :smallsmile:

I have had the most luck with recruiters (headhunters, I guess). I'd admit that my recruiter is specialised in my field (actuarial), but the point is that they're plugged in at the right points for job-seeking. They already know where to look and how to go about applying. Especially for someone such as yourself with a specific skillset. It should be easy enough to search for a recruiter specialised to the accounting field. And you don't even have to stick with one. Just make sure you don't apply for the same job twice through two different recruiters. That's slightly embarrassing.


I actually used to work for an executive recruiter (one which placed only the top level of corporate managers and executives) back before I qualified. We went through a mass of resumes. This I learned: it doesn't actually matter how long or short a CV is, as long as the information is relevant. Someone with the right qualifications and experience will at least get an interview. There your personal qualities will get assessed. It does help to give a short description of each position you filled, perhaps a list of "Duties and Responsibilities" or something.

This is what we did: we never even read cover letters (surprised?). We skipped straight to previous employment history. If that experience was sufficient (we knew what we were looking for for each position, of course), we took a look at tertiary education. A relevant degree was sufficient. Any extra qualifications (MBA, whatever) was a bonus. And that got the applicant an interview. Simple as that. You can draft your resume accordingly. This was of course for highly qualified individuals, but any "skilled"-level application should be similar.

Hope this helps. I'm also not from the US, but I can't imagine that job-seeking practices are that much different than over here.

[Nadevoc]

The reason you get conflicting stories on how to write resumes is that it's dependent on the situation.

For one quick example of how different situations would result in a different resume strategy:
Are you new to the field, without a lot of experience or job history? Include pretty much everything you can.
Are you a seasoned veteran that's held half a dozen jobs or more? Might want to trim it down a bit.

The rule I've always heard is to aim for a page. If you go over that, trim down the things that aren't relevant. If it's all relevant, trim the things that are least impressive/relevant. If you're under a page, try to think of some more skills or experiences to include.

Also, tailor the resume to highlight strengths relevant to the position you want. I have two resumes: one for QA and one for software development. Both list the same jobs, education, etc, but the brief descriptions of my responsibilities at each job are worded differently/include different things. My summary of skills is different in each.

Since you're looking for just one type of job which requires the same strengths in each case, you only need one resume. But tailor it around that specific job. When you say you owned a business, make sure the description of that job covers all the bookkeeping that was required; go ahead and gloss over any customer interaction, etc. Those skills are nice, but it's not what a potential employer is looking for in a bookkeeper.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by inexorabletruth
But how do you write resumes? I've been to plenty of resume writing seminars and they all say different things.

I've had very different feedback from different prospective employers about my resumes and CVs. One guy made a big deal about whether the top margins on all the pages lined up precisely when he held them up to the light. (Seriously.) Different people will emphasize what's important to them.

And sometimes it's like pinball--you have to kick out the resume, and let it bounce and rattle its way through the machinery of the organization, and hope it hits a light somewhere.

I once had a meeting--not even an interview--with the editor of a small magazine produced by an international NGO. "I've got fifty or sixty resumes sitting in my desk," he told me, "and none of them clicked. Yours clicked." I ended up writing for them for a number of years.

Sometimes the resume reaches the right person, against all sense and probability. Very rarely, institutions react sensibly. :smalltongue:

[Don Julio Anejo]

There's never really a one fit-all type/format for a resume and cover letter. At each end of a hiring process sits a person, and each person is different in their biases, preferences and needs. One guy might be anal about formatting and won't give a candidate with less-than-perfect looking resume a second glance, while another only looks at content and doesn't care about anything else as long as it's not Comic Sans. Same with cover letters. There's really no way to come up with a set that will work perfectly for everything.

That said, I second tailoring your application to the specific job ads. I.e., highlight the skills they're looking for and put less emphasis on the ones they're not.

[razorback]

So, as someone who sits in a lot of hiring meetings, even sitting in interviews for other departments with differing personalities with different objectives, the number one thing that tanks most resumes is whether they can spell correctly. Although I am technically in the sales department, I was involved in hiring the latest accounting manager. The one with the strongest applicants from a work history perspective, in the groups opinion, was the first to go because of hear/here, its/it's, spelling debits as debtits. (I still laugh when I think about that)
Always spell check your resume and then read it out loud for clarity. Then spell check it again. If it passes, then have a friend or three read it for clarity.
If you have friends who have gotten jobs recently that are in the same field, ask them for a copy of their resume and see what stands out to you. How they phrased something may have stood out to whoever read it

Good luck with the hunt.

[Douglas]

Yes, first impressions are important and your resume is the first impression employers will have of you. Make certain that every objective technical aspect of your resume (spelling, grammar, etc.) is absolutely flawless. There are many varying opinions about formatting and content, and employers may recognize that and make allowances for it even if your choices don't quite match their preferences, but anything where there actually is a single officially correct standard had better match it.

[inexorabletruth]

Well, the grammar and spelling is spotless, so that part is covered.

Oh, and I have some good news! I got my first callback today. I'm going on an interview Wednesday! :smallbiggrin:

Maybe I was fretting over nothing. Now all I have to do is survive an interview without acting like the socially awkward, fat, hairy doofus I usually am. :smalltongue:

Wish me luck!

[Don Julio Anejo]

Well, the grammar and spelling is spotless, so that part is covered.

Oh, and I have some good news! I got my first callback today. I'm going on an interview Wednesday! :smallbiggrin:

Maybe I was fretting over nothing. Now all I have to do is survive an interview without acting like the socially awkward, fat, hairy doofus I usually am. :smalltongue:

Wish me luck!
Good luck dude! Hope you get the job :smile:

Man, I should have been an accountant, that's an insane callback speed.

[Cristo Meyers]

Well, the grammar and spelling is spotless, so that part is covered.

Oh, and I have some good news! I got my first callback today. I'm going on an interview Wednesday! :smallbiggrin:

Maybe I was fretting over nothing. Now all I have to do is survive an interview without acting like the socially awkward, fat, hairy doofus I usually am. :smalltongue:

Wish me luck!

Hey, good for you!

Just remember that you're qualified and that (odd as it sounds) you want this job. That often comes across really well in an interview.


Good luck dude! Hope you get the job :smile:

Man, I should have been an accountant, that's an insane callback speed.

Some places are better than others. The job I had before my promotion called me back within a few days of applying, and it's a multi-national corporation and was an online application.

[Tyndmyr]

Personal networking. Applying to jobs only works for extreme low end (i.e. service industry), or extreme high end (where only a few dozen/hundred people even have your skills, or everyone knows you by reputation). Other than that, HR will shred 50% of the resumes, throw out another 25% for typographical errors, burn 12.5% because the applicant used Times New Roman and not Helvetica ("he's not a Mac guy and is therefore an old square"), laugh at another 7.5% of overqualified applicants, and finally get around to maybe seriously reading 5% of applications/cover letters.

This is true. So, if sending out resumes, use volume. Seriously, hit every company that does that kind of work in your area. 'swhat I did, and it resulted in multiple job offers.

Before doing that, tho, tailor your resume. Find out what keywords are hot in your industry, the accepted ways to best phrase your skillset and so on. Lotta companies churn through resumes in a semi-automated fashion these days. So, while you want your resume to be terse(because that HR drone is just gonna scan it briefly), you want the keywords for it to survive the filters.

Referrals are solid. Starting a business is solid. Both of these heavily favor the social, though. Connections are everything. If you're not social, well, that is a skill like anything else. Some people pick it up easier than others, but all can practice it, and networking often doesn't require the kind of closeness that a solid friendship does.

I also suggest cross-training into related fields. The guy who's solid at one field, well...there are a lot of those people out there. If it's a field with heavy competition, some way to stand out is excellent. Sometimes it's certifications, sometimes it's awards or other ways to say you excel in your field, sometimes it's being flexible as hell.

Also, do mock interviews. Interviews are a social setting, and a potentially awkward one. The resume gets you the interview, the interview gets you the job.

Volunteering is particularly good to fill holes in work experience. If you fall out of a field for ages, it can get harder to get back in. Having experience in the meantime is a helluva lot better than explaining why you haven't been active in the field for years.

And best of luck on the interview, but remember, volume! Until you actually have the job, keep shopping that resume around!

[valadil]

Getting the first job after college is the hardest. I settled for something that wasn't really all that interesting and then had trouble convincing people my experience mattered after it. I ended up going through recruiters, which was obnoxious but unavoidable. I felt dirty talking to them, but they got me plenty of interviews with good companies. I can't comment on how prevalent or useful they are outside of the software industry.

Third time's the charm though. Everyone I talked to liked my resume and I ended up nailing my first interview. Will be starting that job in mid February. I don't think that was a fluke either, just that once you have some proven track record it will be easier.



But how do you write resumes? I've been to plenty of resume writing seminars and they all say different things. Some say, short and sweet. Other's say tell your story to personalize yourself with the reader. Some say, list all credentials and accomplishments from college on. Others say keep a list of only the accolades you received in your specific field. Some say to use this font, others say to use that font.


Don't get too hung up on the formatting. It's a trap. Or if you really do want to worry about that, write the content in one sitting and then make it purty another day. If you sit there bolding and resizing your text you'll never write a useful resume.

When you sit down in front of your resume, write out all the interesting things you've done that you can brag about. Don't worry about length. When you send out your resume, make a new copy of it and prune the least impressive or relevant items until you have a one pager. This is the most efficient way I've found to send out a custom tailored resume to each job, without actually doing any new work each time. It takes 3 mintues to prune the irrelevant bits and send out a resume that will appeal to the skillset HR is looking for.

[Finlam]

Getting the first job after college is the hardest. I settled for something that wasn't really all that interesting and then had trouble convincing people my experience mattered after it. I ended up going through recruiters, which was obnoxious but unavoidable. I felt dirty talking to them, but they got me plenty of interviews with good companies. I can't comment on how prevalent or useful they are outside of the software industry.

Third time's the charm though. Everyone I talked to liked my resume and I ended up nailing my first interview. Will be starting that job in mid February. I don't think that was a fluke either, just that once you have some proven track record it will be easier.



Don't get too hung up on the formatting. It's a trap. Or if you really do want to worry about that, write the content in one sitting and then make it purty another day. If you sit there bolding and resizing your text you'll never write a useful resume.

When you sit down in front of your resume, write out all the interesting things you've done that you can brag about. Don't worry about length. When you send out your resume, make a new copy of it and prune the least impressive or relevant items until you have a one pager. This is the most efficient way I've found to send out a custom tailored resume to each job, without actually doing any new work each time. It takes 3 mintues to prune the irrelevant bits and send out a resume that will appeal to the skillset HR is looking for.
I think all of this is good advice.

Though, personally, I try to keep the resume to two pages instead of one.

[inexorabletruth]

Good luck dude! Hope you get the job :smile:

Man, I should have been an accountant, that's an insane callback speed.

Oh god oh god. I figured I'd pry a little more about rate of pay, since I'm not supposed to go there until tomorrow, and I don't want to waste cab fare on another $10-$11/hr job. Since it's my first interview, I thought I'd bid high, so I asked for $30K. He explained that the position starts at $65K. :smallsigh:

*faint… whump…wake up*

What the?! What just happened? I've gone from being nervous to terrified. What if I'm under-qualified? What if I bomb the interview? What if the whole thing's just some scam? What if I get the job, leave my current job and find out I'm in waaaay over my head, then lose the job because I can't cut it?

[Cristo Meyers]

What if I'm under-qualified?

Then you probably wouldn't have gotten the interview in the first place.


What if I bomb the interview?

You won't. You're qualified enough to get their notice and you want the job. Ask questions, answer their's truthfully, you'll do fine.


What if the whole thing's just some scam?

Highly unlikely, but if you're concerned do a little research on the company. See what other interviewees have to say. I've seen scam companies before (hell, I was scammed by one :smallsigh:), they're never as under-the-radar as they think.

Plus, doing research on the company is a good idea anyway. Makes you look interested.


What if I get the job, leave my current job and find out I'm in waaaay over my head, then lose the job because I can't cut it?

Ask lots of questions about what you'll be doing, what they'll be asking of you, etc. Do your research: are you replacing someone that quit suddenly? Are there a lot of disgruntled employees out there?

Get your suit, go over your resume, and breathe. You're almost there.

[inexorabletruth]

I looked up the company yesterday. It's an insurance firm called Jubrey Agencies (http://aildfw.com/home.html). Most of the time, insurance jobs are just sales pyramid schemes, which is why I pushed harder for information, clarifying that I'm only interested in salary work.

I've been checking with the BBB and googled for scams or reported issues with the company all day and have, so far, found nothing. The only thing I've found is that the location I'll be working for (if I get the job) is new and therefore hasn't had much time to earn a reputation of any kind. Regardless, I'm being cautiously optimistic.

I know what to look for:

No base pay… all work is commissioned
Outrageous promises (I can make $1000/day off of just a few hours of phone work)
Paying some kind of small fee to become a licensed whatever.

and I've seen or heard none of that on his website, in his phone calls or e-mails, nor have I found anything like that on the internet about the company.

And everybody who makes money needs someone who can count it. And someone who writes contracts needs someone who can check it for mistakes. And that's pretty much what I do. If this guy makes lots of money selling insurance, then he no doubt writes a lot of contracts, so the job still seems legit.

I suppose I'll take your advice, keep a cool head and walk in there ready to own it if it's real, yet smart enough to walk away if it isn't.

[Cristo Meyers]

I suppose I'll take your advice, keep a cool head and walk in there ready to own it if it's real, yet smart enough to walk away if it isn't.

Excellent! Give it your best shot, and just remember if nothing else it's very rarely a problem if you ask to take a day to consider the offer.

[Douglas]

Oh god oh god. I figured I'd pry a little more about rate of pay, since I'm not supposed to go there until tomorrow, and I don't want to waste cab fare on another $10-$11/hr job. Since it's my first interview, I thought I'd bid high, so I asked for $30K. He explained that the position starts at $65K. :smallsigh:

*faint… whump…wake up*

What the?! What just happened? I've gone from being nervous to terrified. What if I'm under-qualified? What if I bomb the interview? What if the whole thing's just some scam? What if I get the job, leave my current job and find out I'm in waaaay over my head, then lose the job because I can't cut it?
You know your acquaintance who makes $27 per hour? That's about $54K in yearly salary terms. The $30K you asked for is equivalent to $15 per hour. A standard full time job (40 hours per week) works out to approximately 2000 hours per year. $65K really is not that outlandish for a skilled job with obvious business applications, even at near entry levels.

If you were applying for something like a data entry clerk position, where the job is little more than monotonously copying what's on paper into a computer all day, then $30K would sound reasonable to me. Auditing is so far above that it's not even funny.

Short version: recalibrate your expectations. I would not be surprised if $65K is typical.

Edit: I just searched on glassdoor.com (http://www.glassdoor.com) for salaries of Auditor positions in Texas. $65K might be above the average, but it is well within the common range, especially if you have significant experience. Your current boss is taking advantage of you, the desperate situation you were in, and your lack of knowledge about typical salaries.


Good luck dude! Hope you get the job :smile:

Man, I should have been an accountant, that's an insane callback speed.
Try being a software engineer with decent credentials (Bachelor's degree in Computer Science from a well known college). I'd post a resume and get 4 calls the next day, all from people who found my resume without me specifically applying.

[Feytalist]

Salary conversion is a tricky one from where I'm sitting, but you've got experience in a specialised and perennially sought-after field. Sounds like you're getting fleeced at the moment. Unless you have some killer benefits and perks.

You already know what to look out for (and you're smarter than I am, in that regard :smalltongue:) and you've done your research. Sounds good, man. Good luck.

[Tyndmyr]

Oh god oh god. I figured I'd pry a little more about rate of pay, since I'm not supposed to go there until tomorrow, and I don't want to waste cab fare on another $10-$11/hr job. Since it's my first interview, I thought I'd bid high, so I asked for $30K. He explained that the position starts at $65K. :smallsigh:

*faint… whump…wake up*

What the?! What just happened? I've gone from being nervous to terrified. What if I'm under-qualified? What if I bomb the interview? What if the whole thing's just some scam? What if I get the job, leave my current job and find out I'm in waaaay over my head, then lose the job because I can't cut it?

Welcome to skilled employment. My very first coding job was 60k/yr. It escalated quickly from there.

Also, tip, generally try not to be the first person to state a number in salary negotiations. It's usually better for them to state a number first, so you know what ballpark they are in, and can negotiate from there. This does apply to both sides, so, yknow, it's more of a guideline than anything. Don't sweat it if it doesn't feel right.

Don't sweat the interview. You are now getting interviews, even if this one fails, you are still making it further in the process than when you were just sending out resumes. This is progress. Maybe you'll get the job, maybe not, but even if not, this interview will give you practice for the next.

And if you get in over your head, learn as much as you can. This totally does happen, and it's a fairly normal thing. People expect new hires to take some time to adjust to how things work in a new office. So, you have some cushion time in which to adapt. And, worst case scenario, you at least get a few paychecks while learning new stuff to be better prepared for the next attempt. That's unlikely, though. If you've got at least some skills and are making a genuine effort, people are usually willing to work with you.

[inexorabletruth]

A quick update:
The offer was a scam. :smallsigh:

$0 base pay, all commission work.
I have to pay $250 for a license to make that commission work.
After that, I can "basically write my own paychecks"

:smallfurious:

I had to wake up three hours early to go to this interview. I spent $40 in cab fare. The interview had already gone on two hours before I finally walked out.

Back to the drawing board, I guess.

[Douglas]

A quick update:
The offer was a scam. :smallsigh:

$0 base pay, all commission work.
I have to pay $250 for a license to make that commission work.
After that, I can "basically write my own paychecks"

:smallfurious:
Wow. Yeah, that's a scam all right.

Be patient, don't give up, etc. Salaries near $65K are reasonable for the kind of work you're looking for, you just have to find a real one.

[random_guy]

I am an accountant myself (and I am antisocial). I live in a different state, so the payscale might be different, but a legitimate job that pays $65,000 will not be surprising at all.

I work in public accounting and salaries start at $50,000 for entry level hires. Whether private accounting pays more than public accounting is debatable (I have seen those who earn more and those who earn less), but I have heard that private accounting starts higher and has less upside potential.

Some contextual information for interested posters who are not in accounting:
Private accounting and public accounting are both private sector jobs. Public accounting refers to external accountants, such as external auditors who audit the financial statements of a company, and tax accountants who prepare tax returns for other companies. Private accounting refers to internal auditors (such as the original poster), bookkeepers, controllers, treasurers, CFOs, CAOs, and any other accounting position within an organization. We refer to public sector accounting jobs as government accounting.

I obtained my job through on campus recruiting, so I signed up for an interview at my college's career center and my employer sent someone out for an interview. My college's career center is available for alumni who have not found jobs, since graduation. You can try contacting your college's alumni association or career center to see if that can work out as a potential source of interviews. A career center would also provide help with resumes and mock interviews.

After acquiring my job and gainining a few years of experience, I receive occasional contact from recruiters through a LinkedIn account I had created. No active job searching on my part, the headhunters come to me. In my profile settings, I chanced it to say I am looking to keep in touch and I am not looking for new activities, but the recruiters continue to contact me. This passive job search route can work out for someone like me who is socially awkward. Credit where credit is due, someone else already mentioned LinkedIn on the first page of this thread. I just hope my example brings the point home, since I am also in accounting.

Accounting societies such as the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants and the Institute of Internal Auditors sometimes hold networking events where people can meet each other and accounting specific job fairs for college students. In my state, the state CPA society offers free "student" membership for one year to those who are not licensed CPAs. You can try to see if your state has a similar arrangement that would let you access these job fairs for free or at discounted rates. I have attended these events as a recruiter, and I have seen people who are switching to accounting from another career. As someone with accounting experience looking for an accounting job, you have an advantage compared to these individuals and college students looking for a first job.

One possibility to consider is to switch to public accounting. The work is highly seasonal and the overtime work burns out many individuals, so the turnover means they are hiring every year. If you are willing to work overtime for one third of the year for several years, then you can make the switch back to private accounting and gain a comfortable salary without overtime work. It is a fairly common move for those who cannot stand public accounting, or those who want to get into private accounting, but cannot gain an entry level position, so they use public accounting as a stepping stone. I get the impression that finding a private accounting job requires more networking, and public accounting brings headhunters to you once you have experience. The problem with public accounting is the ability to balance work with life. For someone with a family, it is not an ideal situation, and most entry level hires are those who just graduated from college.

[inexorabletruth]

This is incredibly helpful. Thanks random_guy! I hope this means a bright future awaits me!