Mount and Blade-You've dealt couched lance damage!

[Beowulf DW]

Seeing the discussion my LP thread spawned, I realized I should make a general discussion thread so that my LP wouldn't get too cluttered (no offense). I also realized that people on this forum actually play this game. Who knew?

For those unfamiliar with Mount and Blade, all I can say is the best way to figure out what exactly it is, is to play it. At the very least, there are few other games quite like it, though the learning curve can be a bit steep.

[IthilanorStPete]

Thanks for starting this thread! I'll direct any noob questions here, and I look forward to hearing discussion by people who've played the game.

[Tavar]

Everyone agrees that the "follow and capture the spy" and the "defeat a special bandit group" quests are products of terrible design, right? I mean, if there was any indication where they might be, it wouldn't be so bad, but the spy books it so fast out of the city that you lose sight of him before you can even start to follow, and the bandits don't even spawn in your sight range. Plus, any of the faction lords will try to attack them, possibly killing them, but more likely just driving them very far away.

[Jimorian]

Yeah, there are a lot of quests I end up abandoning or not taking on because they're either really difficult, or nearly outright bugged (though really, as you say, just bad design).

Let me direct folks to a video Let's Play I've been following by Vechs (of the Super Hostile custom Minecraft map fame). He's added a light set of mods that take care of some of these issues (cattle follow you automatically frex), and generally make the game a bit less grindy (a big issue if trying to do a video series), so that might interest some folks. I'm still trying out the vanilla game, so can't vouch for the mods myself. He does talk about the mod and what it changes during the first video.

Playlist link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re5-w1kWRv8&list=PLnCwvvt-f7djLHIvTngx4pySjzzKXlfPP)

He has a link to his mod in the description of the videos, or just go here (http://www.fileswap.com/dl/zvEl7FecCH/Vexed_Native_1.154.zip.html).

[BladeofObliviom]

I finally got around to picking up Warband over the holidays. It's a lot of fun!

I've actually tried out a few builds, but the only one I've been very successful with is my Polearm-specialized Heavy-ish Cavalry Officer.

Her basic loadout includes the following:

[Armor]:
Lordly Great Helm (Lucky find in a Shop!)
Lordly Heraldic Mail with Surcoat (Another great find!)
Thick Plate Boots
Reinforced Gauntlets

[Weapons]:
Jarids x2 (Because they do a lot of damage, hit at range, and are lightweight)
Balanced Hafted Blade (Because you can swing it from horseback and it has decent range, but is short enough that you can swing it in a siege battle effectively)
Balanced Lance (Really, the thread title says it all)

[Horse]:
Spirited Steppe Charger (I got really lucky on this one! It's tough enough for me to survive if I screw up and start taking hits, but fast and maneuverable enough for me to run down enemy cavalry with my lance.)


I'm also a Vassal of the Kingdom of Swadia, so basically I'm running a bizarre Swadian Equivalent of a Khergit Lancer. :smalltongue:

I've found money isn't as much of an issue once you're part of the Landed Noble Crowd, naturally. It helps that I knocked King Harlaus off the throne in favor of his Niece, and ended up with the City of Suno and its surrounding villages as my personal little fiefdom in thanks. :smallcool:




On a side note, I feel like this is totally justified: Harlaus acknowledges that Lady Isolla's claim is legitimate, but says he's more likely to get things done and not cause the collapse of Swadia, while obviously a Queen would never be able to competently fight a war.

MEANWHILE, he proceeds to constantly hold feasts in the middle of an enemy campaign, as far away from the front lines as possible, so that his vassals never show up in time when enemy lords show up and start raiding villages or besieging castles. Brilliant tactical move there, right?

Then, when Swadia finishes their feasting and marshals their forces to capture stuff back, take a wild guess who gets most of the fiefs. Done guessing? Why, King Harlaus, of course! Basically, unless you intervene, he usually just ends up annoying all of his Vassals, which makes them want to leave, which makes him paranoid so he starts exiling people left and right. Which makes more people want to defect. Whoops! :smalleek::smallyuk:

[Beowulf DW]

Everyone agrees that the "follow and capture the spy" and the "defeat a special bandit group" quests are products of terrible design, right? I mean, if there was any indication where they might be, it wouldn't be so bad, but the spy books it so fast out of the city that you lose sight of him before you can even start to follow, and the bandits don't even spawn in your sight range. Plus, any of the faction lords will try to attack them, possibly killing them, but more likely just driving them very far away.

Since I usually put quite a few points (either on my character or a companion) into Spot and Pathfinding, it usually doesn't give me quite as much trouble. Still, it is annoying.

The cattle quests take some getting used to, but I usually don't have too much trouble. I just zigzag in back of them to get them where I'm going.

Still, definitely could have been done better.

As to King "Har-har loss's" incompetence-Yeah, I'm right with you on that one. Although, some claimants are less worthy of their crowns than others, I think.

[TheFallenOne]

The spy thing is easy enough with a decent Tracking. He's simple to pick out as his party size is 1. Find that and then just follow the arrows. I find the village quests more annoying personally, especially the cattle one. The training the villagers one too, takes up too much time.

I think the game gets a bit bland after a while, but oh gods is there awesome modding out there. I liked Sword of Damocles quite a bit, adds kingdom building, lots of new troops, factions, mercenary guilds and items plus a nice endgame threat. Sadly it is also responsible for my last hard drive crash. You can't get out of the centurion dialogue freeze with anything but a hard shutdown and that messed something up -.- Still definitely worth a look though.

[Triaxx]

I'd almost suspect King Harlaus of existing to give prospective emperors a starting point. Declare your kingship and sweep up all the defecting vassals.

I'm still running around in light armor, though I've amassed a fair sized party of 22 foe-slayers. I've got cavalry, archers and foot soldiers. I'm still using the starting Balanced Sword, but I've started getting some good loot now. Is it basically all looking for the right prefixes to get the best gear?

[Knaight]

I'm still running around in light armor, though I've amassed a fair sized party of 22 foe-slayers. I've got cavalry, archers and foot soldiers. I'm still using the starting Balanced Sword, but I've started getting some good loot now. Is it basically all looking for the right prefixes to get the best gear?

Just look at the stats, the prefixes increase them in a pretty transparent way. Also, I'd recommend hitting the sea raiders a few times for now. You get better armor, a better sword, spears, nice shields, and fat loads of cash. Plus, they are really easy to take out form horseback.

[bobthe6th]

Honestly the best Mod I've played so far is Prophocy of Pendor. Gives the game a ton of depth, with armies that will be an issue no matter your level.

@BladeofObliviom: Gah... not having a shield makes me twitch.
Personally I keep building ground force characters, tower shield, sword, and bow. Properly leveled and with a head shot, it always tends to be a one shot, one kill.

Other point of frustration, marshal demanding you follow while you are in the middle of defending from a siege. "Sorry, can't come, entire enemy army sitting on my doorstep. Yes, all 1500 of them."

[Leecros]

Everyone agrees that the "follow and capture the spy" and the "defeat a special bandit group" quests are products of terrible design, right?

Nah, as mentioned a couple of times. Neither of them are bad if you have points in pathfinding, tracking, and spotting. The special bandit group can be a pain to find sometimes, but i don't necessarily find it a bad thing that they can disappear on you and you never find them again. It's a big world afterall.


All things considered i don't sweat people being mad at me for not completing difficult or impossible quests in general. It's so easy to improve relations with people, i often find myself with 50 or more approval from most of the lords. Just help them in battle, release lords that you capture(yes, yes i know. that ransom is appealing.), attend feasts, and win tourneys. Your relations will improve with most lords, the cities will like you more, and you'll get a decent chunk of cash. As far as villages go, i don't find any of their quests too bad except the "Buy X amount of grain for us."

[Triaxx]

The ones I find annoying are hunt down the looters/bandits/whatever around the city. I always fail that, and I'm not sure why, because I spend the time scouring the area for the groups, but the quest doesn't ever seem to end. Am I missing something?

[Tavar]

Nah, as mentioned a couple of times. Neither of them are bad if you have points in pathfinding, tracking, and spotting. The special bandit group can be a pain to find sometimes, but i don't necessarily find it a bad thing that they can disappear on you and you never find them again. It's a big world afterall.
I geneerally do have characters in my party with reasonably high levels of all of those. They're still a pain, and defending that quests should be randomly impossible to do because that's realistic is the second worst idea I've heard today.


The ones I find annoying are hunt down the looters/bandits/whatever around the city. I always fail that, and I'm not sure why, because I spend the time scouring the area for the groups, but the quest doesn't ever seem to end. Am I missing something?You're missing one of the groups. You have to kill all the Blue ones.

[IthilanorStPete]

My first game is going pretty well so far. I've got a party of about 30 Swadians; mostly Recruits and Militia, with a few Skirmishers and a couple of Infantry. I've done some small quests for Swadian lords and towns, collecting taxes, delivering ransoms, hunting bandits, that sort of thing. I've been doing trading as well; after a bit of Wiki'ing, looks like a route between Halmar and Curaw is a good plan.

My biggest issue so far has been how combat handles. One-on-one, it always seems like the enemies are faster both when attacking and blocking, and I have a ton of trouble aiming my attacks and actually hitting the enemy. In battles, I've been trying to use light cavalry tactics, riding around the enemies while hitting them with my spear or sword. Any advice?

[Leecros]

I geneerally do have characters in my party with reasonably high levels of all of those. They're still a pain, and defending that quests should be randomly impossible to do because that's realistic is the second worst idea I've heard today.

Mnneyyyeahhh... I still don't have too much trouble with it, probably because i don't really care about those quests. When they come up i do typically pass on them because they can be time consuming. Specifically the hunting the specific group of bandits quest. When i feel like taking the quest, i'll take it and go on my own thing. Usually they'll either show up somewhere or be destroyed by another group. As for the spy quest. I've rarely had any problems with that one and by rarely i mean that i can only recall one situation where i've actually missed him and ended up failing the quest ultimately.

Still, it's really only personal experience. I recall taking the bandit quest a few times and them ending up just outside of my sight range. I also recall bandit quests where they're out in the middle of nowhere and you'll get lucky to find them.

[Tavar]

My biggest issue so far has been how combat handles. One-on-one, it always seems like the enemies are faster both when attacking and blocking, and I have a ton of trouble aiming my attacks and actually hitting the enemy. In battles, I've been trying to use light cavalry tactics, riding around the enemies while hitting them with my spear or sword. Any advice?
Most enemies will be, because they're optimized for combat. I mean, you have to spread your points around 4 abilities and the full list of skills. They have 2 abilities and something closer to 4-6 skills, which are based on those two abilities. Luckily they're as dumb as a brick, so it's possible to win.

As for hitting, it all comes down to timing. I still have trouble with it, but it does get easier.

Mnneyyyeahhh... I still don't have too much trouble with it, probably because i don't really care about those quests. When they come up i do typically pass on them because they can be time consuming. Specifically the hunting the specific group of bandits quest. When i feel like taking the quest, i'll take it and go on my own thing. Usually they'll either show up somewhere or be destroyed by another group. As for the spy quest. I've rarely had any problems with that one and by rarely i mean that i can only recall one situation where i've actually missed him and ended up failing the quest ultimately.

Still, it's really only personal experience. I recall taking the bandit quest a few times and them ending up just outside of my sight range. I also recall bandit quests where they're out in the middle of nowhere and you'll get lucky to find them.

...
Are you seriously saying that they are not designed poorly because they're so much trouble that you just avoid them? What bizarre logic are you functioning under?

[Leecros]

...
Are you seriously saying that they are not designed poorly because they're so much trouble that you just avoid them? What bizarre logic are you functioning under?

okay then, since you're questioning my intelligence and and hundreds of hours of gameplay let me put it this way.

I've only had One(1) time that i recall that i've had trouble with the spy mission. Period. It's not that bad if you're observant enough and have the skills to deal with it.

And as for the Bandit hunting mission. Are you seriously saying that it should be easy to find a specific group of maybe 20-25 people in the rather large countryside that is the game? How would you do it? Have them spawn right beside you? Quest Arrows? Perfectly accurate information in a world where such a thing is effectively non-existent? Does this look like Skyrim? Things like that would feel so...against the nature of Mount&Blade that the concept seems alien to me. Even though, it would greatly reduce some of the tedium involved with hunting bandits or playing errand boy.

Let Me Clarify More. Just because i skip a mission that i find tedious or just because you find a mission tedious; Does not mean that it's immediately designed poorly. Welcome to the Medieval period. I'm sorry that the location of everything isn't smacked out in big fat arrows.

[Tavar]

{{scrubbed}}

[Leecros]

I'm not questioning your intelligence. I'm questioning if you are using the same sorts of logic that others use. And apparently you are not, judging by what you say below
Right...Because questioning whether i'm operating under some bizarre logic isn't questioning my intelligence.



I've done it 5-6 times, and never had an easy time, even with moderate skills.

Sounds like a problem. As mentioned earlier in the thread, you can put enough points in Tracking and you can see the pretty obvious 1 man army heading off in whatever direction.


Oh, look, a stawman.

Right. You don't think that something that is designed to be fun and is instead tedious has not failed in any way. Ok, I guess I should just start disregarding what you're saying, because you are obviously operating under some alien paradigm with regards to myself.

Well, that and you don't understand what you're saying at all, because saying that Mount And Blade is about as realistic as Age of Empires 2, ie hilariously not.

You can call it whatever you want. How would you change it to work? That's a legitimate question.

I never said anything about realism. Although i would like to note that Mount & Blade is definitely more realistic than Age of Empires if you really want to make that comparison. We can. That said, the information chain in Mount & Blade isn't really off for the times. You get a last known location. You need to find out where to go from there. You have to ask passing lords if they've seen the location of whatever you're looking for. You don't get some sort of magic psychic ability that tells you where everything is like in most RPG's nowadays. This IS accurate to the Medieval period. Your knowledge of your target is only as accurate as your latest intelligence and you can ask the local lords if they've seen the bandit group and if they have they'll give you updated intelligence.

The biggest problem with changing it would be that if you changed it, the quest would be hilariously easy. Going off to fight 20 bandits? Sure. The challenge of this is finding the bandits in the first place and yes, it can get a bit tedious. Oh well, there's plenty of examples of tedious gameplay in video game history. Like every escort mission ever. The problem with this specific one is that it's a function that permeates the game in several ways. I don't see you complaining about finding various lords, or finding the bandit's camp. Which is actually a harder quest at times, because that camp could be off in the middle of nowhere and it doesn't move around. So you can't just ask for directions to see what town it's closest to at the time, because it'll always remain the same. It could be anywhere within the demesne of that city and since it doesn't move around you can't even estimate where it's going. So the quests, find the single group of bandits, find lord X and give him a message, report to the marshal, heck returning to a lord to complete a quest etc... All of these things often require you to have updated intelligence to find them. The problem stems from the fact that if you changed one, you would have to change all of them. At that point most of the game would be hilariously easy, because you could just breeze through things that are supposed to take time to do. The entire basis of those quests is for you to have to travel more than you probably would if you had perfectly accurate information, so that you can get into encounters, you can get attacked by bandits, enemy armies, you can stumble onto things.

So sure, you can attack my logic, you can attack me, you can say that i don't understand what i'm talking about. That's fine, but that kind of Ad hominem doesn't do anything to discuss the issue and as someone with literally hundreds of hours into the game. I think I have a pretty good idea of how the game functions.

[AmberVael]

You can call it whatever you want. How would you change it to work? That's a legitimate question.

You don't change it. You remove it outright. If it is time consuming, tedious, and boring enough that no one wants to take it, why have it in the game in the first place? If no one uses it, it is a useless piece of content and you're better off not having it or replacing it with something more interesting.

[Leecros]

You don't change it. You remove it outright. If it is time consuming, tedious, and boring enough that no one wants to take it, why have it in the game in the first place? If no one uses it, it is a useless piece of content and you're better off not having it or replacing it with something more interesting.

There's a lot of various content in Mount&Blade. Whether something is time consuming, tedious, or boring is an opinionated point. I find the trade aspect all of such things, but I'm not calling it to be removed because i know that there are people who play the game for that sort of aspect.

[AmberVael]

There's a lot of various content in Mount&Blade. Whether something is time consuming, tedious, or boring is an opinionated point. I find the trade aspect all of such things, but I'm not calling it to be removed because i know that there are people who play the game for that sort of aspect.

Yes, it's an opinion. If there are people who like it, then obviously it should stay in game.

Now I challenge you to find someone who actually likes it. Good luck with that. :smalltongue:

[Leecros]

Yes, it's an opinion. If there are people who like it, then obviously it should stay in game.

Now I challenge you to find someone who actually likes it. Good luck with that. :smalltongue:

The problem is that that specific quest has the same set up as any of the quests that requires you to find X on the campaign map. You get an initial location of the Bandits, you get there. If you find them still there, good. You attack them. If you don't? Then you ask around until you find someone who has spotted them.

The only differing fact is that people won't be able to help you find your target, if they themselves haven't seen it.

[BladeofObliviom]

Now I challenge you to find someone who actually likes it. Good luck with that. :smalltongue:

I like the trade aspect of things. :smallredface:

Though I'll acknowledge that it's hardly top-of-the-line and M&B is clearly not trying to be a merchant's game. :smalltongue:


On the subject of the other argument, could you guys perhaps just agree to disagree? You're arguing toward two completely different ideals that are unlikely to coexist in this case. (Deterministic Game Design vs. Medieval Realism)

[AmberVael]

I like the trade aspect of things. :smallredface:

Though I'll acknowledge that it's hardly top-of-the-line and M&B is clearly not trying to be a merchant's game. :smalltongue:
Oh, trade's fine. I meant the find a bandit group thing.

I do some trading too. I make it a side thing, but it's alright.

[Leecros]

I don't mind the bandit hunting quests. I do usually pass them up, but that's because they can get tedious and they're not really worth it. That said, there are situations where you can get the quest and the bandits will spawn within your sight range. Other times you really have to go hunting them down. However, Completing the quest doesn't really give you enough money for the potential trouble.

So i guess something i would personally change would be an increased reward on completing that quest.

[Castaras]

I like bandit hunting and spy quests. They're simple. But then again, I always have high tracking and scouting.

[Tavar]

{{scrubbed}}

[Leecros]

Okay, we're done. You can say whatever you want. It's clear that neither of us are ever going to agree to this and there's no way we're going to come to an agreement and continuing to argue fruitlessly is going to only end with rage, irritation, and probably rule issues as well.

[shadow_archmagi]

Mount and Blade is such a frustrating game to me- frustrating because I always want it to be so much better than it is, and there's all these places where it's tedious, and not just tedious, but tedious in verisimilitude-breaking ways.

Example: I'd like to recruit some troops. Oh wait, the only way to efficiently recruit troops is to make friends with some villages! Okay, that's reasonable. What do I have to do to make them like me? Oh, okay, bandits drove off this village's cattle. Can I kill the bandits to get the cattle back? No, those bandits don't actually exist in the game world, I have to just buy more and then herd them (WHY DOES HERDING WORK THIS WAY) back to the village.

Oh, you're anticipating a big bandit attack and you want me to train you? Can I just kill the bandits ahead of time? No? Okay, well, let me just tell you the basics of forming a shield wa- no? How about archery? You only want to learn quarterstaff fighting? I'm not really a specialist, but my comrade here- oh, it has to be me?

This sort of thing continues all the way into the endgame. "I'm the only person in the world who orders the construction of buildings? And I have to ride to villages to do it personally?"

[bobthe6th]

Question: Has anyone ever bought cows to feed their troops? Not to complete a quest or what not?

Fun Secret: with Mount & Blade, cheats help with that. Also Mods, mods are very important.
The teleport cheat is now my main method of locomotion, and I prefer my own leveling/reward system.

Though on fear of starting another thread bending argument, I do kinda like the village training missions. Though I tend to raise my characters training skill so the time between fights is tiny.

Also, the bandits probably ate the cows... they are bandits after all.

[Leecros]

This sort of thing continues all the way into the endgame. "I'm the only person in the world who orders the construction of buildings? And I have to ride to villages to do it personally?"

You would've hated the original Mount&Blade where you would have to go to each of your holdings to pick up your taxes personally.:smalltongue:


I do kinda like the village training missions. Though I tend to raise my characters training skill so the time between fights is tiny.


I like it, because it's relaxing and is (basically) a free bonus to their opinion of you. Yeah, it might take some time if your training skill isn't high enough. However, since i'm always moving around, usually from tourney to tourney, to take a break at one of my villages is quite nice. Gives me a minute to lean back and take a sip of my drink or something.

[Knaight]

On the spy mission: I actually like it. It's a bit niche, but I find it works out pretty well for the occasions when I have a dinky army (as in, me plus a handful of mounted companions) and just want to ride around and kill things.

[Beowulf DW]

All right. I've been playing through the Calradian crusade mod for a bit, now, and I think it's definitely been a bit of an improvement so far. The Swadians are now modeled after the Templars, complete with the white tabards and red crosses. The Swadian melee units are mostly unchanged other than some tweaks to to their names and appearance. The Swadian ranged units have been changed from crossbow-users to longbows, reminiscent of the English yeomen. The Rhodoks are now distinctly Byzantine in flavor, and have mounted units of their own. While they are still the premier crossbow users in this game, I think that a mounted archer has been added, and their melee units now become Varangian Guards. At the end of the melee troop tree is the Mounted Varangian Guard, but it may actually be a good idea not to upgrade all of your Guards, as this doesn't seem like an upgrade so much as a change in function. A mass of non-mounted Varangian Guards is every bit as fearsome as their Rhodock Sergeant counterparts in the vanilla game, perhaps even more so, now that they come equipped with poleaxes rather than pikes.

The Sarranids now more closely resemble the Saracens, though they seem to have kept their Mamelukes. Unfortunately, I haven't gotten around to the Nords, Vaegirs and Khergits, yet, so I don't know what's been added to their troops, though I do know that the Nords now have a mounted unit. One of the features of this mod is that every faction now has at least one mounted unit.

Besides the upgraded troop trees, everything seems crisper and less cartoony. Castles have been added in an apparent attempt to re-balance territory distribution. This is especially nice for Swadia, considering that they're almost constantly at war due to bordering four of the other factions. More diplomatic options have been added, such as trade agreements and even defensive pacts. In one of my games, Swadia just established one of these pacts with the Sarranids, which is really helping to take pressure off of them from the Rhodoks.

All in all, it seems that many of the gameplay features of other mods have been added in, too (i.e. cows following you, ships, building your own hide out).

[Silverbit]

I've just downloaded the Clash of Kings mod (game of thrones) and I'm finding that fun. Stannis for the win!

I also play multiplayer quite a bit, generally on the GK siege server-always attacking :smallsmile:. If you see someone with the name Silverbit on there, it's probably me. I'm not brilliant at it but I do enjoy the combat.

What equipment do people use for multiplayer? I tend to go fast one-handed weapon and shield, with the heaviest armour possible.

[Leecros]

What equipment do people use for multiplayer? I tend to go fast one-handed weapon and shield, with the heaviest armour possible.

I've not really played much multiplayer, but that's typically what i do as well. Sometimes if i'm feeling adventurous i'll grab a crossbow, but my aim isn't good enough for that.

[Triaxx]

Just need to learn to compensate for the arc. Or fire one opening shot and drop it for another weapon.

[bobthe6th]

Sign I have played to much mount and blade... give me a bow with good accuracy and I can hit targets across the map.

bows are great for walking your shots. Shoot then re-aim based on were the first landed. multiplayer is a bit harder to learn on, but it gets easy with practice.

[Beowulf DW]

I admit to never actually attempting archery in this game other than occasionally shooting a crossbow at some jerks that were trying to climb over my walls. #getoffmylawn

However, that does not mean that I don't have respect for the mighty bow. Seeing what a decently positioned unit of archers can do to an enemy army, especially if they have any infantry between them and the enemy, is truly frightening.

[Knaight]

However, that does not mean that I don't have respect for the mighty bow. Seeing what a decently positioned unit of archers can do to an enemy army, especially if they have any infantry between them and the enemy, is truly frightening.

It's pretty impressive. I'm currently running an archer heavy army with some frankly mediocre archers (Nords are a bit short on it), but even a shallow hill produces pretty spectacular results. The edge of a river - particularly the ones that are basically miniature canyons - are yet better.

[Storm Bringer]

any one else play the With Fire and Sword expansion? i honestly love it. currently got a russian noble and kicking the snot out of the poles.

[Kaun]

Archery is really good in Vanilla but so many mods nurf the poop out of it.

I have tried a few of the mods.

I liked Clash of Kings but i found it crashed a lot. This led me to give up on it because it often happened right after battles which become frustrating.

[bobthe6th]

...or they break it like gekokujo were they take away all shields. Now there is no point to non archers.

[Knaight]

Others handle it fairly well though. There's always Anno Domini 1257 for instance, though that particular mod isn't anywhere near representative regarding either quality or the amount of work that went into it.

[Leecros]

I typically dump a bunch of archers in my castles. It may not be the best strategy, but if you're good at melee and stuff your walls full of archers with maybe 10 or 20 knights to help you defend the access points. You can usually defend against all but the most major attacks for less cost than just a castle full of knights.



any one else play the With Fire and Sword expansion? i honestly love it. currently got a russian noble and kicking the snot out of the poles.

I....have it.... but I simply can't get into it in the least. It's not a fault of the game, it's just not my preferred tech level, if that makes any sense. I have the same mindset for like the Total War games. When guns start becoming involved, i simply lose interest. Again, not a fault of the game, just not my preference.

[Snufkin]

Mount and Blade is such a frustrating game to me- frustrating because I always want it to be so much better than it is, and there's all these places where it's tedious, and not just tedious, but tedious in verisimilitude-breaking ways.

Example: I'd like to recruit some troops. Oh wait, the only way to efficiently recruit troops is to make friends with some villages! Okay, that's reasonable. What do I have to do to make them like me? Oh, okay, bandits drove off this village's cattle. Can I kill the bandits to get the cattle back? No, those bandits don't actually exist in the game world, I have to just buy more and then herd them (WHY DOES HERDING WORK THIS WAY) back to the village.

Oh, you're anticipating a big bandit attack and you want me to train you? Can I just kill the bandits ahead of time? No? Okay, well, let me just tell you the basics of forming a shield wa- no? How about archery? You only want to learn quarterstaff fighting? I'm not really a specialist, but my comrade here- oh, it has to be me?

This sort of thing continues all the way into the endgame. "I'm the only person in the world who orders the construction of buildings? And I have to ride to villages to do it personally?"

Recruiting normal units associated with a faction is usually pretty easy in my experience. At the start i'll admit it can be a little tedious before you get your first village fief, but it really doesn't take that long to get a high approval rating and the results are definitely worth it. By the "end" game in one of my playthroughs I was recruiting upwards of 30 -50 second or third tier units from my favourite town.

[IthilanorStPete]

My first game continues to go rather well. I've got about 50 troops with me - a mix of Swadian infantry & crossbowmen, Rhodok crossbowmen, and Khergit horse archers. Financially, I've got about 6k-7k, regularly pulling in a few hundred a week or so from trading. I've got four heroes with me - Borcha for spotting and tracking, Jeremus as a doctor, Alayen and Firentis to raise into fighters. I've been doing well against bandits and Sea Raiders, and thinking about joining the Swadians as a mercenary, does that sound like a good idea at this stage of the game?

[Knaight]

My first game continues to go rather well. I've got about 50 troops with me - a mix of Swadian infantry & crossbowmen, Rhodok crossbowmen, and Khergit horse archers. Financially, I've got about 6k-7k, regularly pulling in a few hundred a week or so from trading. I've got four heroes with me - Borcha for spotting and tracking, Jeremus as a doctor, Alayen and Firentis to raise into fighters. I've been doing well against bandits and Sea Raiders, and thinking about joining the Swadians as a mercenary, does that sound like a good idea at this stage of the game?

It sounds long overdue. Mercenary work is easy, it doesn't tie you down for the rest of the game the way actually becoming a lord does, and it gets you involved in much more fun fights. Even if you do occasionally want to go hunt looters, or follow peasants and caravans around and chase things away from them.

[Leecros]

it doesn't tie you down for the rest of the game the way actually becoming a lord does

Becoming a lord isn't really that big of a deal either. My longest-running game had me join just about every faction except Swadia and the Nords. The only major penalties is a nasty relation hit with the ruler and losing all of your landed titles...which can be bad if you don't prepare for it beforehand.

[Beowulf DW]

It's pretty impressive. I'm currently running an archer heavy army with some frankly mediocre archers (Nords are a bit short on it), but even a shallow hill produces pretty spectacular results. The edge of a river - particularly the ones that are basically miniature canyons - are yet better.

Yeah, Nord archers lose out on one promotion relative to other factions, but their infantry more than makes up for it with their sheer endurance and their throwing weapons. I don't even bother with archers in my Nord playthroughs.

[Knaight]

Yeah, Nord archers lose out on one promotion relative to other factions, but their infantry more than makes up for it with their sheer endurance and their throwing weapons. I don't even bother with archers in my Nord playthroughs.

My point is that the Nord archers have been more than capable of holding their own, despite being lackluster. It helps that they're hiding behind a solid infantry wall which doubles as a thrown weapons depository, and it helps that I keep a small cavalry detachment that keeps the flow of enemy troops moving towards the archers at manageable levels, but massed archers are just good given half decent terrain.

[Squark]

I tried Fire and Sword, but then I hit a bit of a dead point in the game where I absolutely had to grind trade routes for months on end until I could finally proceed with the plot again, since getting your own city (my usual strategy for bringing in funds) is much, much harder.

[shadow_archmagi]

It's been a few years since I last played- are there any mods that do much to make the battlemap more tactical? I never managed to find a better strategy than infantry in front, archers behind (on hill if possible) cavalry off to the side so they have a clear charge line.

Also, is there a mod that lets you count cause of deaths? I'm always curious about whether my archers are killing more than my knights- it seems like when the knights hit the field, the screen fills up with green kill messages and stays that way for as long as the knights are in melee, whereas the archers are more of a slow and steady trickle.

While I'm at it, is there a mod that improves army behavior on the overworld? I remember in the old game, sometimes a lord with like, four soldiers (often one that I had myself had just finishing routing) would be running alongside a cluster of lords. You can't outrun one man on a horse, and if he touches you, his seven hundred friends get to reinforce him... as frustrating as it was strange.

[Squark]

It's been a few years since I last played- are there any mods that do much to make the battlemap more tactical? I never managed to find a better strategy than infantry in front, archers behind (on hill if possible) cavalry off to the side so they have a clear charge line.

Also, is there a mod that lets you count cause of deaths? I'm always curious about whether my archers are killing more than my knights- it seems like when the knights hit the field, the screen fills up with green kill messages and stays that way for as long as the knights are in melee, whereas the archers are more of a slow and steady trickle.

While I'm at it, is there a mod that improves army behavior on the overworld? I remember in the old game, sometimes a lord with like, four soldiers (often one that I had myself had just finishing routing) would be running alongside a cluster of lords. You can't outrun one man on a horse, and if he touches you, his seven hundred friends get to reinforce him... as frustrating as it was strange.

Calradian Crusade incorporates a lot of mods, some of which should help out with what you need. Diplomacy makes politicking easier and lets you handle fief management from a central location, and there are also a number of tactics mods incorporated into it that I'm still exploring right now. You do need to have 2 ranks in the tactics skill to make use of those options, though.

[Snufkin]

It's been a few years since I last played- are there any mods that do much to make the battlemap more tactical? I never managed to find a better strategy than infantry in front, archers behind (on hill if possible) cavalry off to the side so they have a clear charge line.

Also, is there a mod that lets you count cause of deaths? I'm always curious about whether my archers are killing more than my knights- it seems like when the knights hit the field, the screen fills up with green kill messages and stays that way for as long as the knights are in melee, whereas the archers are more of a slow and steady trickle.

While I'm at it, is there a mod that improves army behavior on the overworld? I remember in the old game, sometimes a lord with like, four soldiers (often one that I had myself had just finishing routing) would be running alongside a cluster of lords. You can't outrun one man on a horse, and if he touches you, his seven hundred friends get to reinforce him... as frustrating as it was strange.

Floris gives you more commands on the battle field like ordering your archers to attack in volleys, and ordering spear units to form anti-cavalry stances - stuff like that. It also adds some new abilities that take the ease of some of the more tedious parts of the game.

eg. There is a hunting skill which allows your party to forage for food whilst on the move or stuck in sieges so your army won't run out of food as quickly.

[shadow_archmagi]

Floris gives you more commands on the battle field like ordering your archers to attack in volleys, and ordering spear units to form anti-cavalry stances - stuff like that. It also adds some new abilities that take the ease of some of the more tedious parts of the game.

eg. There is a hunting skill which allows your party to forage for food whilst on the move or stuck in sieges so your army won't run out of food as quickly.

Is archers firing in volleys useful? I can't really see what it achieves.

[Snufkin]

Is archers firing in volleys useful? I can't really see what it achieves.

Well it's about making more efficient use of your archers. Like let your enemy run into a wall of infantry and let your archers take them out in a focused attack. Also, They only have so many arrows, and you can make them last longer this way - handy for sieges.

Those are just examples - i haven't actually installed the mod myself and haven't played vanilla on my computer for some time. I've observed most of this from watching a friend of mine play; he is really keen on this mod.

[JadedDM]

So is anyone else keeping up with the upcoming sequel, Bannerlord?

[Storm Bringer]

So is anyone else keeping up with the upcoming sequel, Bannerlord?

theirs a sequel?

*runs off whooping for joy*

[JadedDM]

Well, there will be. It's still in development.

You can see some screenshots and concept art here (http://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Media).

[Beowulf DW]

theirs a sequel?

*runs off whooping for joy*

*Assists Storm in whooping*

[shadow_archmagi]

Allright fine you swineherds have convinced me to try one more time with this game. But I'd better have a LOT OF FUN or I'm going to be really angry that I played a game I already paid for a second time :smalltongue:


So, I see here that "Floris" and "Calradian Crusade" are both well-regarded mods. Which one should I absorb? What are the relative merits of each?

[Beowulf DW]

Calradian crusade adjusts troop trees such that every faction now has a mounted unit. You can now use ships, though due to the nature of the map, there's only so much they can do. Tournaments have received significant changes, more castles have been added, and castle layout is now much more varied. Diplomatic options now have more depth. Additionally, you can enlist in a noble's army if you wish, in which case you will be given equipment and pay according to your rank, which increases with time. Fight well, and you will also earn the friendship of the lord you served under. In my main save, I served in King Harlaus's army, and eventually he offered me vassalage, first of a village, then of a castle when one became available, and then of a city when he threw the old lord out for treason.:smallbiggrin:

[shadow_archmagi]

I opted for Floris, and named my character Princess Buttpoop because I am a mature adult.

Eugh I'd gotten how painful being low level in this game is.

[shadow_archmagi]

Adventures of Princess Buttpoop:

First 150 days or so:

1. Decide to be a Nord. Ride around throwing axes at jerks. It turns out killing bandits gets you free manhunters, and manhunters turn bandits into gold. I invest the gold by buying land in every major Nordic and Swadian city.

Next 50 days:
2. Decide it's time to start taking castles! Swear an oath to Ragnar Goatpants, King of the Nords.

3. Nords lose everything. They're now down to three castles, two of which I captured. After the Vaegirs keep retaking everything I steal from them, I give up.

Last 38 days:

4. Zip over to the last Sarranid city and castle (They're doing very poorly too) and capture it, starting my own empire. I've been in the habit of saving Kherghit caravans, so their relations with me are quite high. A thousand angry yellow jerks show up on the doorstep of my new city, so I broker a truce in exchange for the castle I just took from them. Over the next twenty days, I bolster the city's defenders to about six-hundred so when the truce ends I'll be ready.


Now I just need to work on raising my Right to Rule so that not everyone declares war on me all the time.