wildshape planar ranger

[CIDE]

This is probably less of a RAW discussion and more of a RAI one.

Anyway, I was reading through the Ranger's alternate class features and I spotted both the Planar Ranger and the Wildshape Ranger. Wildshape Ranger on its own isn't all that handy but there's plenty of WS Ranger/MoMF builds out there that are just lovely. Thing I noticed though is that because there's no clash you could also take Planar Ranger on top of it that allows you to throw either the Celestial (for good) or Fiendish (for evil) template onto your animal companion.

Normally, the Planar Ranger is there to augment the normal ranger that lacks the ability to wildshape. But given similar classes that will allow throwing templates (like Planar Shepherd) to wildshape would you guys rule that the appropriate celestial/fiendish template could be added to the Planar ranger's Wildhspape forms? Are there any rules for or against this?

Or better yet; any additional class features or prestige classes that enhance either or both of these?

[Grod_The_Giant]

PrC-wise, the classic options are Master of Many Forms and Warshaper. But if you're going for a planar ranger (and you don't mind a little breakage)... well, if you dip a level of savage bard or druid, you can hop into Planar Shepherd, which is thematically the most fitting PrC I can think of.

In any case, as a DM, I'd be OK with letting the two ACFs stack in the way you suggest.

[Coidzor]

I'm not seeing any benefit without a way to get access to the special qualities or supernatural abilities of the forms modified by the template, so it appears that a ranger wildshaping into a celestial badger is only cosmetically different from the same ranger wildshaping into a badger. Going into MOMF up to level 7 still doesn't get much more than the baseline animal. :smallconfused:

A Planar Wildshape Ranger/Druid with the Enhance Wildshape Spell(IIRC) would be able to get a bit of a buff from having access to celestial or fiendish forms, I suppose, but they could instead take Exalted Wildshape and use that to gain access to those qualities in celestial templated animals without expending a spell due to the nature of that feat.

[CIDE]

PrC-wise, the classic options are Master of Many Forms and Warshaper. But if you're going for a planar ranger (and you don't mind a little breakage)... well, if you dip a level of savage bard or druid, you can hop into Planar Shepherd, which is thematically the most fitting PrC I can think of.

In any case, as a DM, I'd be OK with letting the two ACFs stack in the way you suggest.

I'd consider the Planar Shep PrC but there's just so much cheese there. Even with Ranger spell progression instead of a Druid's the odor of the Ricotta is still over powering. Thematically it does of course still fit and I love the idea.


I'm not seeing any benefit without a way to get access to the special qualities or supernatural abilities of the forms modified by the template, so it appears that a ranger wildshaping into a celestial badger is only cosmetically different from the same ranger wildshaping into a badger. Going into MOMF up to level 7 still doesn't get much more than the baseline animal. :smallconfused:

A Planar Wildshape Ranger/Druid with the Enhance Wildshape Spell(IIRC) would be able to get a bit of a buff from having access to celestial or fiendish forms, I suppose, but they could instead take Exalted Wildshape and use that to gain access to those qualities in celestial templated animals without expending a spell due to the nature of that feat.

Huh...never thought of it like that.

[Coidzor]

I certainly admit that I've been running a bit ragged since the start of the New Year, so I might have overlooked or misremembered some way that it fits together, but nothing in either template seemed to be granted by unaltered wildshape.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'm not seeing any benefit without a way to get access to the special qualities or supernatural abilities of the forms modified by the template
Depends on the order of operations. If you're turning into a Fiendish bear, that works one way, but if you turn into a bear and then have the Fiendish template applied (the way I interpreted the idea)...

[StreamOfTheSky]

I'd suggest scrapping the animal altogether for Urban Companion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a).
Urban Companion

The fearsome animal companions who accompany some casters in the wild are indeed a boon in combat, but a hulking wolf or creeping tiger is out of place in an urban environment. Some characters believe that small and subtle is of greater value than massive and mighty.

Class: Druid or ranger.

Level: 1st (druid) or 4th (ranger).

Replaces: If you select this class feature, you do not gain an animal companion.

Benefit: The character gains the companionship of a smaller but far more intelligent creature than she otherwise would have. This is identical to the sorcerer's ability to summon a familiar (PH 52), including all benefits granted and gained by the familiar, except as noted below. Her functional level for determining the abilities of the companion is equal to her druid level or one-half her ranger level.
• She does not lose experience points if her urban companion is slain, and she requires only 24 hours to replace one who is lost.


• Her urban companion has total hit points equal to 3/4 her own hit points, rather than half as per a familiar.


•The urban companion gains the ability to speak with other animals of its kind when she has an effective master level of 1st, rather than 7th.


•When she reaches an effective master level of 7th, she can speak with animals of her companion's kind, as per speak with animals. This is a supernatural ability that functions constantly, and it requires only a free action to reactivate if somehow dispelled.


Two big reasons:
1. Animal Companion will have HORRID hit points and defenses and will just plain die, due to MoMF not advancing it. Familiars' hp and base saves are based on your own.
2. The Familiar's Alertness feat + Ranger's Endurance means you can get into MoMF without having to spend any of your feats. Pretty nice when a PrC requires a pair of worthless gateway feats, to just ignore them.

[Coidzor]

And thanks to Dragon Magazine, you can have an Eagle (http://youtu.be/pV4F46N21PA), Doge (http://youtu.be/sd4bqmP_460), or Badger (http://youtu.be/EIyixC9NsLI)as your Urban Companion! :smallbiggrin:


Depends on the order of operations. If you're turning into a Fiendish bear, that works one way, but if you turn into a bear and then have the Fiendish template applied (the way I interpreted the idea)...

It'd be highly irregular, but it's also the only way I can think of that it'd work without bumping it up even more by giving it the ability of Exalted Wildshape or MOMF 7 and getting everything from the base animal.

[CIDE]

I'd suggest scrapping the animal altogether for Urban Companion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a).
Urban Companion

The fearsome animal companions who accompany some casters in the wild are indeed a boon in combat, but a hulking wolf or creeping tiger is out of place in an urban environment. Some characters believe that small and subtle is of greater value than massive and mighty.

Class: Druid or ranger.

Level: 1st (druid) or 4th (ranger).

Replaces: If you select this class feature, you do not gain an animal companion.

Benefit: The character gains the companionship of a smaller but far more intelligent creature than she otherwise would have. This is identical to the sorcerer's ability to summon a familiar (PH 52), including all benefits granted and gained by the familiar, except as noted below. Her functional level for determining the abilities of the companion is equal to her druid level or one-half her ranger level.
• She does not lose experience points if her urban companion is slain, and she requires only 24 hours to replace one who is lost.


• Her urban companion has total hit points equal to 3/4 her own hit points, rather than half as per a familiar.


•The urban companion gains the ability to speak with other animals of its kind when she has an effective master level of 1st, rather than 7th.


•When she reaches an effective master level of 7th, she can speak with animals of her companion's kind, as per speak with animals. This is a supernatural ability that functions constantly, and it requires only a free action to reactivate if somehow dispelled.


Two big reasons:
1. Animal Companion will have HORRID hit points and defenses and will just plain die, due to MoMF not advancing it. Familiars' hp and base saves are based on your own.
2. The Familiar's Alertness feat + Ranger's Endurance means you can get into MoMF without having to spend any of your feats. Pretty nice when a PrC requires a pair of worthless gateway feats, to just ignore them.

Seems like a good idea to mesh with Wild Cohort. Not as strong as an animal companion but for a trade and a feat I'd have two slightly weaker animals. Since I'm already freeing up two feats it's not a big deal.


And thanks to Dragon Magazine, you can have an Eagle (http://youtu.be/pV4F46N21PA), Doge (http://youtu.be/sd4bqmP_460), or Badger (http://youtu.be/EIyixC9NsLI)as your Urban Companion! :smallbiggrin:
.

Cool.