Need Help Making an Ardent Character -- Back-Up Healer

[kevin_video]

EDIT: I've still got absolutely no clue as to what I'm doing. I'm currently Ardent 2, and I'm pretty sure I'm doing a terrible job. Mantles are Physical Power, Life, and Freedom. Campaign is essentially Core Only. The PCs are the exception. If we need anything specific that's not in the PHB or DMG, we need a way to craft it ourselves. There's no divine casters in the party. I'm the only psionic in the whole adventure. Wish I'd been made aware of this prior. I wouldn't have made my character if I'd known.

I'm thinking Ardent 20, but I can't customize the mantles. No web enhancement stuff. It's as-is only.

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So we've just started a brand new campaign, and no one's playing a cleric. We've found out quite quickly what happens when that happens. The DM's been nice, and pulled a few punches so far, but given that we're running a pre-made adventure path, I don't think he'll be doing that too often.

With our current team, myself and another player are the only "back up" healers. I'm playing a synad ardent, and he's playing an incarnate with the spellfire feat. Thankfully one player is a warlock so his eldritch blast keeps the spellfire at maximum. My ardent has the life and the freedom mantles so far, and I can currently only do 2 hp per power point. When I use my focus, I can heal for 4 hp. That's pretty sad, and doesn't do much in battle. If we survive the battles, we heal up afterwards.

While I don't want to make a true healbot, I would like to keep the party alive long enough that we're not constantly having to rest for a day after a single encounter. Granted we're just first level, but the dice rolls just have not been in our favour at all. I can't recall I've seen so many natural 1's just on the player's side.

During my next level up, I was thinking of going cleric, but looking over the psychic theurge, it's not that great a PrC. Especially if you're not allowed to use Divine Metamagic feats to persist the divine power spell and give you full BAB regularly. Unfortunately, the PrC is weak BAB, much like the cloistered cleric (which is what I'd go for). Spontaneous would also be a better choice than prepared, as most of us learned last campaign.

What kind of builds would you suggest for my character to be to keep the party alive? I was thinking just keep going to ardent 20, but I don't know how well that'd go.

[kevin_video]

Being a crusader could possibly help too, especially with the Psychic Renewal feat.

[Metahuman1]

See if you can pool the money and get the DM to let you guys by a trapped alter to a god, with the trap being a Divine Metamagic Persist Spell lesser Vigor. Every morning you all pray, and get Fast healing 1 all day long.

Makes HP a per encounter resource so you always go in on full.

[kevin_video]

See if you can pool the money and get the DM to let you guys by a trapped alter to a god, with the trap being a Divine Metamagic Persist Spell lesser Vigor. Every morning you all pray, and get Fast healing 1 all day long.

Makes HP a per encounter resource so you always go in on full.
Not gonna happen. DMM is banned from the game. You want to persist, you pay the actual spell levels to do it. As well, we have no money. We're only 1st level, and are dirt poor. Besides, it's a module. If it's not in there, we don't get it unless we build it ourselves.

[Particle_Man]

Next character that dies, that player has to roll up a cleric. This should give you guys incentive to live. :smallbiggrin:

[Socratov]

simple: make a bard (they get heal spells), trade fascination for Hymn of Healing and you are done. the only thing you need now is metamagic and a way to trade your music for metamagic (which is possible). The bonus? You still hae room to be an excellent face, and do several other things well. (especially if you choose to go the SC+Virtuoso route)

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Socratov
simple: make a bard (they get heal spells), trade fascination for Hymn of Healing and you are done. the only thing you need now is metamagic and a way to trade your music for metamagic (which is possible).

Pretty sure you can't power metamagic with bardic music at first level.

[Socratov]

Pretty sure you can't power metamagic with bardic music at first level.

but no character is a healbot at lvl 1, so you will have to wait a couple of levels. It's not like you need the metamagic at lvl 1 for healing. While at lvl 3 your hymn of healing acts as an accellarant of healing: either by using it once to add your skillpoints of the performance on to the heal spell as a sacred or profane bonus, or by playing the song for 1 minute before retiring allowing the party to gain the benefits of 24 hours of rested healing in 1 night. And that is usable from lvl 1, and therefore quite handy to use from lvl 1 onwards.

[sideswipe]

for 2 skill points you can pick up the healing hands skill trick to Heal 1d6 damage when you stabilise a dying character.

dip a level of dragon shaman to gain the aura to give everyone fast healing 1 and heal up to half heath.

meaning everyone heals up to half naturally and then you can use your small healing you have to boost to full

[Socratov]

for 2 skill points you can pick up the healing hands skill trick to Heal 1d6 damage when you stabilise a dying character.

dip a level of dragon shaman to gain the aura to give everyone fast healing 1 and heal up to half heath.

meaning everyone heals up to half naturally and then you can use your small healing you have to boost to full

except that you negate your own point: it's only usable to stabilize a dying character (someone with negative hitpoints), one they break neutral or get into the positives, you can't use the trick anymore... The bard trick stays for every conjuration healing spell, and at lvl 1 and actually stays relevant throughout the game (that is, until rocket tag becomes a thing)

[sideswipe]

except that you negate your own point: it's only usable to stabilize a dying character (someone with negative hitpoints), one they break neutral or get into the positives, you can't use the trick anymore... The bard trick stays for every conjuration healing spell, and at lvl 1 and actually stays relevant throughout the game (that is, until rocket tag becomes a thing)

i think i didnt make my point clear enough therefore you mis understood.

1d6 to stabilise
dragon shaman to half heath.
use his 2hp for 1pp healing afterwards to fully heal.

i was not saying you could heal with healing hands.

[Socratov]

i think i didnt make my point clear enough therefore you mis understood.

1d6 to stabilise
dragon shaman to half heath.
use his 2hp for 1pp healing afterwards to fully heal.

i was not saying you could heal with healing hands.

then indeed I misunderstood you. My bad.

[Seerow]

The best thing for low level healing is Healing Devotion. Each turn undead attempt turns into 10 hp that can be transfered around the group where it's needed. 40-60hp will keep a low level party going for a long time between levels 1 and 3, and even at higher levels can be a great supplement for topping off.

Honestly though I have no idea what you could do as an Ardent to increase healing. Seems like others have that covered though.

[Another_Poet]

I respect parties that play without a cleric, and I hope you don't give in :smallsmile:

Here is my suggestion. You seem to think you will live to level 2 because you're asking about build options. However, if you can make it to level 2 then you won't be poor anymore.

Do you have access to a town? If so, ask the town priest to craft a Wand of Cure Light Wounds. The retail price is 750 gp, split four ways this is affordable at 2nd level. (It ain't exactly cheap but it's worth it.) Make sure 1-2 people take Use Magic Device ranks and you're good to go. The DC is 20, so it won't be reliable for in-combat use just yet, but it's a huge start toward greater survivability.

If your GM is feeling merciful, ask if he will allow two alchemical items from the 3.5 edition Iron Kingdoms setting:


Ansleigh's Wound Seal. Converts a small amount of damage to nonlethal damage. (The original rules worked like poison in reverse, so converting 1d6 damage immediately plus converting 1d3+2 more damage a minute later, with a side effect of 1d3 wisdom penalty for a few moments. For simplicity's sake, I rule that it just converts 2d6 damage immediately on application and the character has a -2 penalty to everything for a few minutes. 20 gp for one dose.

The advantage of converting damage to nonlethal damage is that whatever healing you do have now becomes twice as effective, because anything that heals damage heals an equal amount of nonlethal damage as well.

Cure-All Cream. An ointment applied to wounds. It takes 1d4+1 minutes to set in, but once it does it acts exactly like a potion of Cure Light Wounds. 20 gp for a 3-dose jar.

Last, get some goodberries (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/goodberry.htm).

[Red Fel]

I'm seconding Crusader as your combat spot-healer, and here's why: Martial Spirit. It's a stance you can keep up, freely, perpetually. You have access to it at level 1. Each time you make a successful melee attack, you or an ally within 30 feet recovers 2 points of damage. At level 1, that's a lot.

Here's another reason: Crusader's Strike. It's a strike, which automatically recovers when you've expended your other maneuvers, that allows you or an ally within 10 feet to recover 1d6 damage, increased by your initiator level. It's a great way to throw an emergency spot-heal out, and a 1d6 heal at level 1 is nothing to sneeze at.

And that's just at level 1. Crusaders have access to the Devoted Spirit discipline, which is chock-full of little healing tidbits like this. Crusaders, unlike almost any other class with healing capabilities, heal allies while harming enemies, which breaks the action economy in ways that most healers - even Clerics - can't.

Go with Crusader.

[kevin_video]

Next character that dies, that player has to roll up a cleric. This should give you guys incentive to live. :smallbiggrin:
No one will ever truly die. At least not in the sense that you'll gain a new character. No, if you mess up a character build, you're stuck with it until the end of the campaign. The DM punishes you with your character coming back more messed up than when he/she was alive. The question is, how messed up is that character by the time the campaign's over?


simple: make a bard (they get heal spells)
Too late. All of the characters have been established. There's no charisma bonuses from any of us short of the warlock. And that's minimal.


Do you have access to a town? If so, ask the town priest to craft a Wand of Cure Light Wounds. The retail price is 750 gp, split four ways this is affordable at 2nd level. (It ain't exactly cheap but it's worth it.) Make sure 1-2 people take Use Magic Device ranks and you're good to go. The DC is 20, so it won't be reliable for in-combat use just yet, but it's a huge start toward greater survivability.

If your GM is feeling merciful, ask if he will allow two alchemical items from the 3.5 edition Iron Kingdoms setting:

[INDENT]Ansleigh's Wound Seal.
Cure-All Cream.

Last, get some goodberries (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/goodberry.htm).
Access to a town? Technically. And by that I mean the closest one is a day away, but we're doing an epic long dungeon crawl. I doubt we're going back to town any time soon. My fear is a tremor happens and we're trapped underground and forced to continue on until we reach a level that the conjurer can teleport us out.

I can ask about the Iron Kingdoms stuff, but "merciful" isn't his strong point.

And good berries are druidic. There's no druid in this group.

[kevin_video]

Still having troubles, and fumbling the whole way through. Don't even have a clear goal as to what I'm doing, or how to get there. The ToB swordsage and warblade are possibilities if I want them, but not crusader. At least not as it is. I'd get a weaker version.

[Particle_Man]

Depending on how high level you get, elven Warblade going into the prestige class Eternal Blade could give you some devoted spirit maneuvers, some of which are healing maneuvers. You could also look at the Martial Study/Martial Stance feats for more access to devoted spirit maneuvers/stances, for something healingish to do at low levels.

[kevin_video]

Synad race, and we're probably going to level 15.

[Maginomicon]

Synad race, but "core only"? I'd recommend trying to finagle the Psionic Minor Creation power. Psionic minor creation would allow you to create a wooden bathtub and other vegetable matter.


Healing Salve:

Rubbing this stinky green paste into wounds promotes rapid healing. Applying the salve is a full-round action. One dose cures 1d8 points of damage to a living creature. Only one dose may be applied per round, and there is no limit on how many salves can be applied over time.

The Alchemy DC to make one application of healing salve is 25. If you have 5 or more ranks in Profession (herbalist), you get a +2 synergy bonus on checks to craft it.

Cost: 50 gp

Sure a healing salve isn't as powerful as a potion of cure light wounds, but since it fairly-clearly is made of vegetable matter, PROMOTES rapid healing (meaning it enhances the body's own healing capabilities instead of doing the healing itself), and cures damage instead of giving temporary HP, it's a very viable way for a psionic character to be the party healer (although it takes 1 minute to manifest, the resulting salves would only exist for 1 hour/level, and applying a salve is a full-round action instead of the standard action for quaffing a potion).

Fill the wooden bathtub with it. The end result is party-wide out-of-combat healing (that even cleans up after itself).

[kevin_video]

The problem with the healing salve is that you need a Craft (alchemy) check of 25. No one even has that skill in the party, nor the intelligence to spend on skill points into that.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I know your pain. I ran a psionic campaign and the Ardent was sore pressed to keep people healthy. Hilarious trade Physical Power for Creation and you and him are the same,

Some solutions we did:
Healing Belts good
Astral Constructs focusing heavily on trip (I ended up doing a crazy pile of houserules to AC though, as it was 1 at a time as per CPsi, but only a standard action [it was being cast as one anyways by accident] and the Ectopic Forms did not block menu choices, so YMMV).
Lots of ranged attacks/kiting.
Psionic Meditation (more focuses, faster = better). I forget exactly what he did with his focus, but it worked.

Doing your best to stopping the damage before it hits and saving your healing for people in bad shape/end of day PP burning.

[kevin_video]

Game is essentially "Core Only" for items so if we want Healing Belts we have to make them ourselves.
Tripping means nothing because we're using Pathfinder CMB/CMD rules instead of standard 3.5 ones.
Everyone's got ranged attacks, but no one's specialized, and our dice hate us so we can't even hit the broad side of a barn right now.

[Artillery]

Being a Psionic character there a number of good combos to go with.

Psi Crystal with Vigor and Share Pain for 2x temp hit points is great but more for yourself, it does give you a place to dump damage when using empathic transfer eaily though. Empathic Transfer is good to have but being touch range makes it less useful in combat.

Things like Vampiric Blade and Claws of the Vampire are good healing while attack. Crusader is the king of that though.

[Slipperychicken]

Craft a dorje of Lesser Vigor?

Buy a wand of Cure Light Wounds/Lesser Vigor and make your Warlock use his Deceive Item ability to use it?

[kevin_video]

Craft a dorje of Lesser Vigor?

Buy a wand of Cure Light Wounds/Lesser Vigor and make your Warlock use his Deceive Item ability to use it?
Core only so no lesser vigor unless we come up with it. Cure light wands will be something we take should anyone actually put ranks into UMD or finally breakdown and take a single level of cleric (likely won't happen).
Warlock took a single level for the will save and 1d6 eldritch blast. The rest are going to be fighter levels.

[Slipperychicken]

Core only so no lesser vigor unless we come up with it. Cure light wands will be something we take should anyone actually put ranks into UMD or finally breakdown and take a single level of cleric (likely won't happen).
Warlock took a single level for the will save and 1d6 eldritch blast. The rest are going to be fighter levels.

What classes are in your party btw?

[kevin_video]

What classes are in your party btw?
Ardent 2, incarnate 2, rogue 1 (trapfinding sneak only), spell-less paladin (Complete Champion), warlock 1/fighter 1, fighter 2, monk 1.

I should note that the game is Core Only. The DM's letting us play whatever class we want, but the majority of the players enjoy the core classes. The adventure is what's really core only. Anything in the DMG and PHB is accessible to us at appropriate levels.

[Petrocorus]

What are the other members of the party?
Are you allowed to use some stuff from the complete?

[kevin_video]

What are the other members of the party?
Are you allowed to use some stuff from the complete?
Previous post has the characters. We're allowed whatever we want from any book so long as we can make it. Someone has to have the spells and the crafting. If we can't do it up, then we can only have stuff from the main Core. That being said, it's looking like an epic dungeon crawl so there will probably be times where characters are away from town weeks at a time.

And I seemed to have missed this...

Being a Psionic character there a number of good combos to go with.

Psi Crystal with Vigor and Share Pain for 2x temp hit points is great but more for yourself, it does give you a place to dump damage when using empathic transfer eaily though. Empathic Transfer is good to have but being touch range makes it less useful in combat.

Things like Vampiric Blade and Claws of the Vampire are good healing while attack. Crusader is the king of that though.
Vigor I've got, but don't have the Psi Crystal or Share Pain. I'd heard about that combo with Empathic Transfer. I'll see if I can get away with that.

[Petrocorus]

Previous post has the characters. We're allowed whatever we want from any book so long as we can make it. Someone has to have the spells and the crafting. If we can't do it up, then we can only have stuff from the main Core.

Oups. I was swordsaged.

I was thinking to feat, not items. If the Pal was not spellless, he could maybe use the Touch of Healing reserve feat from Complete Champion. AKA Unlimited lay on hand.

[Slipperychicken]

Oups. I was swordsaged.

I was thinking to feat, not items. If the Pal was not spellless, he could maybe use the Touch of Healing reserve feat from Complete Champion. AKA Unlimited lay on hand.

He would also have been able to operate CLW wands.

[kevin_video]

The DM's going to try and convince him of retraining to a regular paladin, but at the same time he's also he's got a ton of Savage monster levels to buy off before he can take more anyways. Still, he could still use the wands when we came across them.

[kevin_video]

Oups. I was swordsaged.

I was thinking to feat, not items. If the Pal was not spellless, he could maybe use the Touch of Healing reserve feat from Complete Champion. AKA Unlimited lay on hand.
BTW, Touch of Healing requires you to be able to cast 2nd level spells. Paladins don't get that for a long, LONG time.

[ZamielVanWeber]

May I recommend a favorite backup: talk with the DM proper about your problem and bring up as many of the solutions here as you like and work with him? No DM wants to see their players quit because their game is bad (so much hard work wasted) and no player wants to struggle to barely fill a vital function.

Besides, adding DM/players cooperation to a game is never a bad thing.

[kevin_video]

I've already talked to the DM and so far he doesn't see a problem as of yet. This is mostly because we're barely 2nd level and feels that we'll get a foothold later.

[kevin_video]

Paladin retrained, but we still can't use wands because they don't yet exist. The NPCs are only 3rd level, and only one can make potions at this time. Expensive ones at that too (75g for cure light). Also, I'd forgotten how much crafting rules suck when it comes to wanting items. So many weeks.

[Maginomicon]

The problem with the healing salve is that you need a Craft (alchemy) check of 25. No one even has that skill in the party, nor the intelligence to spend on skill points into that.
First off, most classes (including Warlock, Ardent, and Incarnate) have Craft (which includes Alchemy) as a class skill. Craft can be used untrained.

Second, if you pick up a cleric level like you planned, you can buy and use a scroll of "Guidance of the Avatar" or "Divine Insight". These will pretty-much ensure that you make that check when you need it. Even if you don't take a cleric level, a paladin has access to Divine Insight or anyone with UMD can use the scroll regardless of the class.

[kevin_video]

First off, most classes (including Warlock, Ardent, and Incarnate) have Craft (which includes Alchemy) as a class skill. Craft can be used untrained.

Second, if you pick up a cleric level like you planned, you can buy and use a scroll of "Guidance of the Avatar" or "Divine Insight". These will pretty-much ensure that you make that check when you need it. Even if you don't take a cleric level, a paladin has access to Divine Insight or anyone with UMD can use the scroll regardless of the class.
I'm going to have to be more clear on this because people are still skipping the information I've said a number of times. The spells you just listed off, are not Core only. Therefore, not available to buy as a scroll. Ever.
The warlock took his one and only level. I don't have a high enough intelligence to spend skill points in Craft (alchemy). The incarnate might eventually take crafting, maybe, likely not. It's nice to know that the skill isn't trained only, but no one has that good of intelligence. Crafting something would probably take months. DC 15-25 is too high.
But yes, someone is planning on taking a single cleric level, but that won't be for another six or seven levels. Also, the paladin's not a pure paladin. He's taken his two levels, and that's it for another 10.

[DMVerdandi]

maybe you should retrain?
a big thing that you have shown is that you are the only full manefester/caster. maybe you should class change.

if you want to stay psionic, how about a psion or erudite?
if that isnt necessary you could go codzilla and really kick butt. I would suggest druid from that due to it being perfect in core. druid spells rock, and outside of them it is formidable.

alternatives are spirit shaman, archivist, and shugenja.

if not, i am sure picking the right power with bonus power will be very beneficial.

[kevin_video]

Druids got nerfed in his campaigns. They're not what they're supposed to be anymore. As for retraining, I've already talked to the DM about it and he thinks I can pull it off, and doesn't want me to retrain anything, but instead keep going. He thinks it can be done.