Items of Business for Durkon

[BroomGuys]

As I suspect is the case for many of us, I am now very eagerly anticipating the hopefully forthcoming Restoration spell on Belkar. I'm neurotically thinking through all the crazy ways Belkar could die just before it happens; it seems the Giant has used the Oracle's prophecy very effectively toward raising the stakes in this arc's climax.

I also suspect that Durkon's next long-term move while they travel toward Kraagor's gate will be to research his own version of Protection from Daylight, since that staff won't last forever and he already knows (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0906.html) it's possible to lose it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0929.html). So I guess this one's a question for y'all who know D&D mechanics better than I: how difficult will it be for him to research the spell? I recall someone saying he could learn it from the staff, as well as someone saying that was totally wrong and he can't learn it from the staff.

[Shale]

As far as I know, the rules as written don't make it any easier to research a spell for your own use just because you have a magic item that can cast that same spell. But it's quite logical that having the staff would make Protection From Daylight easier to learn, and that's the sort of thing that Rich lets slide all the time in the interests of intuitive storytelling. So we'll have to wait and see.

[Kish]

It shouldn't be any trouble for him to research the spell in any event. He knows that it exists and, from casting it on himself with the staff, exactly what its parameters are. It's like building a wheel when you don't have any of the blueprints for it, but do have a wheel which is identical to the wheel you want to build, which you can study as much as you like while building.

[johnbragg]

I don't know of any rules at all on researching cleric spells. So whatever the DM wants to do/whatever the Giant wants. (HAving the staff be a vulnerability for Durkon is good for storytelling, so my dollar is on Durkon not learning the spell before the comic ends.)

Larger items on Durkon's agenda:
What does Vampire Durkon want?

Does he want to be ressurrected? IF so, ASAP or after settling things with Xykon?

Or does he want to continue as a vampire, indefinitely?

Maybe after Xykon is defeated, Durkon is ready to move willingly to an afterlife--what choices, if any, does he have?

Does Vampire Durkon want to continue as a cleric in service to a god? If so, which one?

I foresee a recruitment arc, where different evil gods and factions send emissaries to "sign a free agent" high-level vampire cleric.

[BroomGuys]

(HAving the staff be a vulnerability for Durkon is good for storytelling, so my dollar is on Durkon not learning the spell before the comic ends.)

It does seem useful, but given that it still remains for the OotS to take on Xykon, I don't think there's much of a shortage of vulnerabilities to go around.


Larger items on Durkon's agenda:
What does Vampire Durkon want?

Does he want to be ressurrected? IF so, ASAP or after settling things with Xykon?

Or does he want to continue as a vampire, indefinitely?

My money's on the latter, personally.


Maybe after Xykon is defeated, Durkon is ready to move willingly to an afterlife--what choices, if any, does he have?

I wouldn't expect Vampire Durkon to be willing to move on to an afterlife if he doesn't have to, but who knows?


Does Vampire Durkon want to continue as a cleric in service to a god? If so, which one?

I foresee a recruitment arc, where different evil gods and factions send emissaries to "sign a free agent" high-level vampire cleric.

If this does happen, I hope there'll be a pitch, not from Banjo, but from Banjulhu (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0085.html)!

Also, 'nother question: the OotS just defeated Myron, Laurin, and Tarquin, and I assume that's worth quite a good bit of XP. Would this tend to be enough for even Durkon to make some headway?

[johnbragg]

For what it's worth, I think Durkon signs on as Hel's High Priest, taking up full-time residence in, er, Hel, and making occasional forays to hunt down and bring into the afterlife certain notorious undead.

It's not resting beside the bones of your pappy and grandpappy, but it's a duty that must be done, and a rather dwarf-y and Durkon-ish mission to take on.

[Pigkappa]

Durkon will clearly remain a vampire for a while. He has to go back to the mountain caves where the other dwarves live, and bring havoc. I think this will happen during the narrative arc related to Kraagor's gate.

[Copperdragon]

Durkon will clearly remain a vampire for a while. He has to go back to the mountain caves where the other dwarves live, and bring havoc. I think this will happen during the narrative arc related to Kraagor's gate.

It is Death & Destruction, which are likely his Domains now. That is, if you interpret the prophecy this literal. It could also means he kills people there or that Xykon shortly follows him...

[Lombard]

Another order of business will be finding some blood to drink... as a higher level cleric I suppose in a party situation he has the ability to feed, restore, and heal if he can find a willing subject. Then again perhaps there won't be a willing subject. Should be interestng.

[knhaw]

Another order of business will be finding some blood to drink... as a higher level cleric I suppose in a party situation he has the ability to feed, restore, and heal if he can find a willing subject. Then again perhaps there won't be a willing subject. Should be interestng.

Hmmm. You've got me thinking.

Create food and Water (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Create_Food_and_Water) will create "simple fare of your choice—highly nourishing, if rather bland," which opens up the possibility that it could be used to create blood for a vampire to feed on. Now, I don't think it'll happen, since blood for an undead creature is a pretty specific demand, one that probably wouldn't qualify as "simple fare." Also, it would negate much of the storytelling possibilities that I believe the Giant wants to explore here (e.g. Durkon being driven to do acts that conflict with his earlier self).

Still, it raises an interesting question: just how adaptable is the "your choice" clause in the spell for accommodating the nutritional needs of different races?

[Deliverance]

It shouldn't be any trouble for him to research the spell in any event. He knows that it exists and, from casting it on himself with the staff, exactly what its parameters are. It's like building a wheel when you don't have any of the blueprints for it, but do have a wheel which is identical to the wheel you want to build, which you can study as much as you like while building.
Alternatively, it is nothing of the sort.

For instance, if we instead of a something fairly straightforward like a wheel that can fairly easily be analysed through study, we consider Malack's spell to be more akin to a computer program, and, for added merriment, a computer program written in something obscure like Haskell. Admit it; It is the sort of thing Malack would do. (Aiding Durkon's research of the Mass Death Ward spell Malack was capable of sneaking in a backdoor to unravel the spell without Durkon's noticing; I don't think there's any doubt about which of them is the better spell programmer). And Malack being the devious vampire, he probably encrypted it when he stuffed in into the staff, leaving some simple operations to activate his spell.

Now, in that case poor Durkon knows that operating the staff put the spell on him and he may or may not have gained an appreciation of the parameters, but the staff is essentially, a black box that doesn't bring him any closer towards replicating the spell except through a major effort of decryption - something that might not even be possible, and, even if it were, he'd only discover that it was written in Haskell and then have to learn that if he didn't know it already.

If THAT's the sort of spell and staff, then Durkon would probably be better off saying "I know it is possible, and I've got some useful functional limits to aim for, but I'm better off starting from scratch and using the tools I'm used to working with than wasting my time on trying to decrypt something that I'm ill suited for handling."

I am not wedded to the theory, it is just that Durkon isn't exactly an intellectual and may have skipped on some of the more theoretical spell design classes. :smallbiggrin:

[Seward]

Well also, whomever Durkon is now praying to has to be willing to grant the spell and based on Thor's reaction to the earlier attempts at the Mass Death Ward spell, needs to be educated into what that spell is about.

If said deity is Nergal, then that's not an issue. Anybody else though is going to have to be part of that spell research. Indeed it could be that most of clerical spell research is trying to explain to your deity that you want something new, and being specific enough to avoid colon tumors and the like from misunderstandings.

[Lexible]

For what it's worth, I think Durkon signs on as Hel's High Priest, taking up full-time residence in, er, Hel, and making occasional forays to hunt down and bring into the afterlife certain notorious undead.

It's not resting beside the bones of your pappy and grandpappy, but it's a duty that must be done, and a rather dwarf-y and Durkon-ish mission to take on.

I don't know about your ideas regarding residence or duty, but I totally buy the High Priest of Hel thing.

[oonker]

Larger items on Durkon's agenda:
What does Vampire Durkon want?

Does he want to be ressurrected? IF so, ASAP or after settling things with Xykon?

Or does he want to continue as a vampire, indefinitely?

Maybe after Xykon is defeated, Durkon is ready to move willingly to an afterlife--what choices, if any, does he have?

Does Vampire Durkon want to continue as a cleric in service to a god? If so, which one?


Corruption works in subtler ways than most think it does. As a living creature, Durkon's wishes were to:

- study the world
- do good deeds
- spread a good way of living
- helping the OotS

Durkon, as a living creature, might wish to come back to being Durkon and all, but Durkula, as an undead, is a distortion of Durkon. For instance, Durkula might think "you know what? I'll be a better person if I keep my work as an undead. This way I can study the world, do good deeds, spread a good way of living and helping the OotS for longer, and with more abilities". Of course that, being a vampire, he's an abomination of what Durkon was, but this abomination doesn't perceive himself as something bad.

What will change are not Durkon's goals, but how he approaches them. :smallbiggrin:

[Jay R]

You're thinking in game terms, not story terms.

Durkon will be able to research it if Rich plans to have the staff taken away, and to have Durkon keep using the spell.

Durkon will not be able to research it if Rich plans to take it away to keep Durkon from using the spell.

The question will not come up if Rich is planning for Durkon to keep the staff.

[Nightsbridge]

Well also, whomever Durkon is now praying to has to be willing to grant the spell and based on Thor's reaction to the earlier attempts at the Mass Death Ward spell, needs to be educated into what that spell is about.

We know that Durkon does not actually need to worship a god (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15060436#post15060436) to get his spells. He may very well have no deity to speak of, and instead runs purely on the connection to the negative energy plane that makes him tick, or his beliefs or convictions turned to raw power, or something different. Personally, I suspect that he is, at least for now, a godless cleric. Perhaps he will obtain a deity later.

In either case, I believe you're probably right. He'll need to know how it works, first, one way or another.

[BroomGuys]

You're thinking in game terms, not story terms.

Durkon will be able to research it if Rich plans to have the staff taken away, and to have Durkon keep using the spell.

Game terms and story terms are not mutually exclusive. The fact that Rich disregards the rules on occasion and wings it with the numbers doesn't mean the rules are totally absent from the story (I believe he mentioned at one point that Roy won't go around casting fireballs anytime soon), so it's not unreasonable to ask what the game terms are for researching a spell out of curiosity. If, say, it were difficult to research Protection from Sunlight, I might spend more of the beginning of the next book wondering how Durkon is going to pull it off. From my impression, "researching this type of spell is normally not so much trouble, so sure, Durkon went and researched it off-panel" seems quite in keeping with Rich's treatment of D&D mechanics in OotS.


Durkon will not be able to research it if Rich plans to take it away to keep Durkon from using the spell.

The question will not come up if Rich is planning for Durkon to keep the staff.

Obviously things the author decides will happen will happen. But aren't staves ultimately finite? I imagine Durkon might want a more permanent plan than to use the staff until it runs out and then hope he happens to be somewhere dark at the time.

[Kish]

Well, his plan would be a little better than that--more along the lines of, "Oops, that was the staff's last charge. I guess, starting tonight, I'm going to have to act more like a traditional vampire and sleep somewhere enclosed all day."

That said, yes, it will strike a distinctly false note if Durkon doesn't even plan for long-term sunlight immunity, whether said plan involves researching Protection from Daylight or getting resurrected post-haste. He's not Tarquin, to rely on the story going the way he wants it to.

[Jay R]

But aren't staves ultimately finite? I imagine Durkon might want a more permanent plan than to use the staff until it runs out and then hope he happens to be somewhere dark at the time.


That said, yes, it will strike a distinctly false note if Durkon doesn't even plan for long-term sunlight immunity, whether said plan involves researching Protection from Daylight or getting resurrected post-haste. He's not Tarquin, to rely on the story going the way he wants it to.

Gamers have to consider that, because they don't know what is coming. Durkon also has to consider that, for the same reason.

But Rich will not show Durkon's considerations, unless it furthers the story.

[Harbinger]

He's a divine spellcaster and knows the spell exists. Doesn't he only need to prepare it now, since divine casters automatically know all their spells?

[Sir_Leorik]

His first item of business will be to go coffin shopping. That should be interesting, especially if he insists on getting a stone sarcophagus, rather than a wooden casket.

:roy: "There is no way I'm hauling that thing around."