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Raine_Sage
2014-01-04, 12:03 PM
What's the general consensus on dragons taking human shapes in D&D? I've been thumbing through the dragon lore and it seems like most metallic and some chromatic occasionally bop around as humans, I'm wondering if they ever turn into more mundane animals? Like a tiger or something? I know in 3.5 half dragon was a template you could apply to just about anything so it seems like the answer to that would be yes but I'm not entirely sure.

Also is there a set age the shape shifting shenanigans take place? Is it something only elder dragons can do? I've been thumbing through different books and I might have missed this (or just not have the right book). In the end I can just make a house ruling on this and it won't be too much trouble but I have one player who tends to get nitpicky about the lore and sulky if I deviate too much from established cannon.

Remmirath
2014-01-04, 01:32 PM
Well, the lore and established canon depend entirely on what setting you're playing in, and you don't mention that, so I'll just go for the rules.

By strict rules in 3rd edition, only silver dragons can take human form, and they acquire this ability at the Wyrmling stage and can do it throughout their entire lives. They have the Alternate Form ability, and not Polymorph, so that means they always have to take the same shape or one of a set few shapes (I don't believe it mentions specifically which it is in their case). I believe that it was either explicitly stated or assumed in 1st edition that other dragons could do this as well, but I don't have that Monster Manual near at hand. Certainly several AD&D-based things had other dragons assuming human form, but they may have been taking some liberties with the rules.

I typically, in my games, say that all dragons get the Alternate Form ability, and it is limited to one specific form although that form may be any humanoid. I do not believe that is in direct conflict with the lore of any D&D setting I can think of, but it may be; I don't play using established settings very often.

hamishspence
2014-01-04, 02:43 PM
Dragons of Eberron has Alternate Form as a feat that any true dragon with a sorcerer caster level of 5th level or higher can take- "Medium or smaller animal or humanoid only".



By strict rules in 3rd edition, only silver dragons can take human form, and they acquire this ability at the Wyrmling stage and can do it throughout their entire lives. They have the Alternate Form ability, and not Polymorph, so that means they always have to take the same shape or one of a set few shapes (I don't believe it mentions specifically which it is in their case).

Bronze dragons get it at Young, gold at Wyrmling:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm#bronzeDragon

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm#goldDragon

It says "one or more specific forms"

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#alternateForm

but since the only limitation given is "humanoid or Medium animal" I figure that means that when they turn into a human, it's always the same human- with the same physical features.

But they could turn into an elf too. Or a cat or dog. But they couldn't use the power to disguise themselves as someone who exists.

Elderand
2014-01-04, 03:30 PM
Then there are song dragon who can turn into a female humanoid form. And only into a female humanoid form.

Iron dragon get alternate form as wyrmling.

Any dragon old enough could get access to polymorph or better as well.

Steel dragon get polymorph 5/day as a spell like ability as wyrmling

Trickquestion
2014-01-04, 04:24 PM
Although I've never seen any consistent lore on this matter, I've always assumed shape changing is absolutely vital to any dragon. Remember, when dragons are played right, they are incredibly crafty and intelligent, as well as carrying the patience that comes from having no natural life expectancy. However, their natural forms make it rather difficult for them to put the sort of long reaching plans they cook up into motion, so it makes sense they'd use their vast magical powers to assume humanoid forms and walk amongst the lesser races.

Elderand
2014-01-04, 04:33 PM
Although I've never seen any consistent lore on this matter, I've always assumed shape changing is absolutely vital to any dragon. Remember, when dragons are played right, they are incredibly crafty and intelligent, as well as carrying the patience that comes from having no natural life expectancy. However, their natural forms make it rather difficult for them to put the sort of long reaching plans they cook up into motion, so it makes sense they'd use their vast magical powers to assume humanoid forms and walk amongst the lesser races.

Actually dragons do sometimes have a life expectancy. Something along 12 thousand years in 3.5 if memory serves.

Raine_Sage
2014-01-04, 06:46 PM
Although I've never seen any consistent lore on this matter, I've always assumed shape changing is absolutely vital to any dragon. Remember, when dragons are played right, they are incredibly crafty and intelligent, as well as carrying the patience that comes from having no natural life expectancy. However, their natural forms make it rather difficult for them to put the sort of long reaching plans they cook up into motion, so it makes sense they'd use their vast magical powers to assume humanoid forms and walk amongst the lesser races.

Now see this is funny because the player in question would disagree since he's of the opinion that a dragon (even a metallic one) would never really want to take a "lesser" shape because Dragon's are all about ego and "**** yeah I'm a dragon" among other things. He's working from a stricter 4ed interpretation than I am where all dragons lean towards the "jerk" side of the alignment scale, I'm working from older editions as far as personality is concerned since I wasn't a huge fan of that.

I'm running a setting loosely based in forgotten realms which doesn't seem to have a lot of specific dragon lore other than "they exist" but I also don't have that many books dealing in forgotten realms so I've been playing pretty fast and loose with the setting. Mostly cribbing maps and locations and some of the more interesting NPCs while running an original story. Which is part of the reason for some of the sulk, it's not like he's very attached to this setting but he seems to be afraid that going too far off the rails is going to lead to a train wreck.