Could a smart skeleton talk?

[Dalebert]

I feel like I may have asked this before but I can't recall what the response was and I can't find the thread. I apologize if so.

Skeletons are mindless. Obviously they can't speak. My DM has decreed that my gravewalker can possess his mindless undead minions. So if I am possessing a skeleton, it's obviously temporarily not mindless. Can I speak and cast spells?

My DM's immediate response was they don't have vocal chords. But they don't have muscles either and yet they move. They don't have eyes, and yet they see. Lichs are desiccated bodies and I often seem them portrayed as having no lips; just exposed jaws and teeth. They obviously speak and cast spells. When I pointed out these things, he just went silent like he was giving it some consideration. I'm not high enough level yet so this is just something we have to resolve before I hit 8th.

[cakellene]

I wouldn't say they are temporarily non-mindless; just that you are directly controlling their actions, but the shell itself is still mindless.

[Dalebert]

I wouldn't say they are temporarily non-mindless; just that you are directly controlling their actions, but the shell itself is still mindless.

Okay. So while you're controlling it, can you talk?

[cakellene]

I would say yes, in absence of any rules requiring vocal cords. AFAIK, only restriction for talking is you have a mouth.

[MonochromeTiger]

I wouldn't say they are temporarily non-mindless; just that you are directly controlling their actions, but the shell itself is still mindless.

agreed, a possessed target is essentially being used as a shell, you're using their body but it's not your body. that said, you should be able to cast spells while in that body as it would still be you casting the spell, you'd just be using the skeleton's body to complete somatic components in place of your own. for verbal..agreeing with dalebert on that, saying "it can't talk without vocal cords" for a skeleton makes no sense when it can move without muscles, tendons, or joints or it can stick together well enough to move despite no connective tissue.

[Gemini476]

Liches are a great example of skeletons speaking, yes. As are Dracoliches.

For other big examples of creatures that can speak but shouldn't be able to, look at Elementals, ghosts, and various incorporeal critters.

Of course, you also have stuff like giving a Pearl of Speech to a dog and having it speak some language that it physically cannot, like common. Or that Drow sign language, I guess, but I'm not sure that that would work.

But in the case of skellingtons, the answer is literally "A Wizard Did It." Or "It's Magic, I Ain't Gotta Explain Anything", if that's more to your likings.

[Greenish]

Karrnathi skeletons from ECS are just non-mindless skeletons. Their voice is described as "an airy whisper".

[Grizzled Gryphon]

Awakened plants can talk. Awakened animals can talk. Awakened Animated Objects can talk. If they can talk, I don't see it too far a stretch to say a possessed skeleton can talk. If I were running a game and someone wanted to do this, I would definitely allow it, if only for the coolness factor of coming up with the idea in the first place.

But, yeah, in a world where so many things talk that shouldn't, I would allow that. I seem to recall a Gelatinous Cube that gained intelligence somehow, and it could talk. And that was in an official book!

[Dalebert]

I seem to recall a Gelatinous Cube that gained intelligence somehow, and it could talk. And that was in an official book!

Shades of silicon blobs from Star Trek.

[Grek]

Awakened plants can talk. Awakened animals can talk. Awakened Animated Objects can talk. If they can talk, I don't see it too far a stretch to say a possessed skeleton can talk. If I were running a game and someone wanted to do this, I would definitely allow it, if only for the coolness factor of coming up with the idea in the first place.

But, yeah, in a world where so many things talk that shouldn't, I would allow that. I seem to recall a Gelatinous Cube that gained intelligence somehow, and it could talk. And that was in an official book!
It was in one of the Sigil faction books. He was a faction leader and a famous artist.

[Spore]

So, if my Int 6 Paladin mount takes ranks in Linguistics/Speak Language, it could start talking?

[Dalebert]

Awakened plants can talk. Awakened animals can talk. Awakened Animated Objects can talk. If they can talk, I don't see it too far a stretch to say a possessed skeleton can talk.

I tend to agree but not based on the same reasoning. When someone uses a spell to turn into an animal, they can't talk, and an awakened animal can talk because the spell says so. It's an exception. The spell specifically grants that ability. Apparently skeletons are already magically animated to be physically capable of everything they were physically capable of when alive. That's why it can move without muscles, see without eyes, and hear without ears, and the only reason they can't also talk is because they have nothing to say. They're mindless. Alternately, an animated animal skeleton shouldn't be physically able to talk because the live animal wasn't physically capable of it even when it was alive.


So, if my Int 6 Paladin mount takes ranks in Linguistics/Speak Language, it could start talking?

Not without additional magic to address the physical ability to speak. This is why apes can learn limited sign language but they apparently don't have the ability to vocalize like a human.

[Gnome Alone]

Not without additional magic to address the physical ability to speak. This is why apes can learn limited sign language but they apparently don't have the ability to vocalize like a human.

Wait, really? I thought they just like, choose not to.

[Dalebert]

Wait, really? I thought they just like, choose not to.

You're thinking of mice in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

[Killer Angel]

Worst case scenario? you'll have to use silent spell. :smallwink:

[Seto]

Alternately, an animated animal skeleton shouldn't be physically able to talk because the live animal wasn't physically capable of it even when it was alive.

...A lugubre atmosphere has made the adventurers nervous ever since they entered the village. Something... something just isn't right about this place. The doors are closed and the villagers are nowhere to be seen. Everything is dead silent.
Or is it ? Come to think of it, there are sounds. Dogs barking from afar, horses neighing from... somewhere, probably their stables. Reassuring sounds : the proof that life has not yet disappeared from this area. The druid, the warrior and the rogue find shelter within an old, musty-smelling library. Are there still people left ?

The party fighter hears an ominous "squeaaaak". After getting down and looking for the source of the sounds for a little while, he casually casts an eye under the bookshelf... and freezes. A skeletal rat is staring at him ; they're face-to-face. Quickly dodging the creature's attempt to bite his nose, he draws his sword and turns to his companions, urging them to ready themselves for a fight against what might be a whole swarm of these abominations.
But Leïna seems not to hear him. A look of horror extends upon her face as she reflects upon the possible implications of her friend's finding.
At that moment, something scratches at the door. And, well, now that she pays attention to it... the barking that accompanies it is chillingly high-pitched.

Skeletons still being able to emit sinister sounds similar to those of their previous form... There's a detail that can spice things up a lot. You ROCK, man !

[ShurikVch]

Fiendish Animal Skeletons can talk. (Probably, Abyssal)
Just like awakened skeletons of Fiendish Animals.

[Dalebert]

Skeletons still being able to emit sinister sounds similar to those of their previous form... There's a detail that can spice things up a lot. You ROCK, man !

A lot of DMs are already doing it. Even human skeletons might make hissing sounds.

[Dr. Azkur]

You're thinking of mice in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

http://i.imgur.com/nLiq2rL.gif