Oriental Shaman Questions

[GhengisConrad]

I'm sure its been asked, but for the life of me I cannot google it.

Shaman from OA, Tier 1, Tier 2?

Does it have access to non-OA domains?

I'd like some RAW answers, maybe with some sauces or quotes if at all possible, or perhaps to be redirected to the relevant subject.

So sorry my google-fu isn't up to par tonight.

It's tier is more important than anything else though.

[Karnith]

I'm sure its been asked, but for the life of me I cannot google it.

Shaman from OA, Tier 1, Tier 2?It has access to a large number of powerful spells (with a spell list that's essentially a mishmash of the core Druid and Cleric lists), knows all spells on its spell list (plus domains), and can switch out its spells prepared from day to day. By the commonly-accepted tier definitions (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266559), it really can't be tier 2 (unless you think that their strength is just from domains); either the spell list is game-breaking enough to push the class into tier 1, or it isn't and it's tier 3. I personally don't see it being under tier 1, but I know that some people call it tier 3.

It also has an Animal Companion ability that needs to be updated to 3.5, Turn/Rebuke Undead, and some random other abilities, but the spells are the most important part.

Does it have access to non-OA domains?Per the class's Spirits, Domains, and Domain Spells ability (Oriental Adventures, p. 24), Shamans have access to the Shaman domains in Chapter 7 of Oriental Adventures. Some other source might have added some additional Shaman domains, but I am unaware of any such source (though I also don't really go looking for them).

They don't have access to Cleric (Mystic, etc.) domains by default, if that's what you're asking.

[sideswipe]

tier 2 is access to game breaking spells.

i havent read the class. if it plays closer to a sorcerer/ favoured soul then its tier 2. which is still game breaking, just not easily abuse-able and god like (tier 1)


update- read it now. yeh its a cleric lol tier 1 though it would have a few less options its basicly the same

[Pluto!]

Spell Compendium Domains are explicitly added to the Shaman's list and SpC suggests further spells be added to the native spell list, but specifically detail the additions, so the expansion will vary from group to group.

I think the OA Shaman is more powerful than a core Cleric in most respects (weird spell omissions like Magic Fang and Dimension Anchor aside), but becomes weaker than that Cleric once other splatbooks enter the picture - the Cleric's spell list becomes much broader without the rigamarole of deciding which spells should and shouldn't become available to it, and PrC class features do a lot more comparatively for a class without any built-in abilities than one with a ton of them.

[Vortenger]

Thing is, Sideswipe, they don't play like a sorcerer, despite their spells per day. They get to change their spells on a per day basis and have access to all of them (potentially). A sorcerer cannot match that versatility, since the shaman can just change his roster up tomorrow, if thats whats called for. That versatility is the hallmark of a tier 1. You did see from Karnith's post that this class has full level 9 casting, a full level AC, and turn undead for DMM shenanigans as well, right? The more limited domain list is a pretty fair price to pay for that level of power. :smallamused:

[sideswipe]

Thing is, Sideswipe, they don't play like a sorcerer, despite their spells per day. They get to change their spells on a per day basis and have access to all of them (potentially). A sorcerer cannot match that versatility, since the shaman can just change his roster up tomorrow, if thats whats called for. That versatility is the hallmark of a tier 1. You did see from Karnith's post that this class has full level 9 casting, a full level AC, and turn undead for DMM shenanigans as well, right? The more limited domain list is a pretty fair price to pay for that level of power. :smallamused:

I updated my post a-la the update line where i agree with tier 1.
I also started writing my post before that post appeared.

[Coidzor]

It explicitly gets Oriental Adventures domains as well as some/all of the ones in the Spell Compendium, if the handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13489923&postcount=3)is to be believed.

[Karnith]

It explicitly gets Oriental Adventures domains as well as some/all of the ones in the Spell Compendium, if the handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13489923&postcount=3)is to be believed.
The exact quote from Spell Compendium about expanding the Shaman's spell list is:

Shamans have a spell list that is a blend of druid and cleric, but they should not get all the spells clerics and druids do. Examine the spell lists of both those classes for good choices. Also, consider using the cleric domains presented in this book as shaman domains.
It's just advice (i.e. not rules), but it's close enough that I don't see a good reason not to let Shamans get access to the SpC domains.

[Gemini476]

Don't Shamans get access to that buff spell that makes you colossal? And Turn Undead/DMM?

[Pluto!]

Don't Shamans get access to that buff spell that makes you colossal? And Turn Undead/DMM?

They have a domain with that, Righteous Might, Divine Power, Divine Favor and Shapechange. It's just made for DMM:Persist goodness.

Plus Polymorph and an animal companion, just to get really gross.

[Coidzor]

The exact quote from Spell Compendium about expanding the Shaman's spell list is:

It's just advice (i.e. not rules), but it's close enough that I don't see a good reason not to let Shamans get access to the SpC domains.

Ahh. Thank you. I always managed to miss that when I was reading through the copies I've had access to.

[Karnith]

Something weird about the Shaman is that it gets Ethereal Jaunt as a 5th-level spell (normally a 7th-level spell), and Etherealness as a 6th-level spell (normally a 9th-level spell, though accessible through lower-level spells).

It's not a big deal, it just bugs me.

[Pluto!]

Something weird about the Shaman is that it gets Ethereal Jaunt as a 5th-level spell (normally a 7th-level spell), and Etherealness as a 6th-level spell (normally a 9th-level spell, though accessible through lower-level spells).

It's not a big deal, it just bugs me.

That's a 3.0 thing that would be fixed by the 3.5 update if you use it.

EDIT: I think there are a couple other spells like Mass Heal that were similarly raised from their 3.0 levels to 3.5 in one of the edition overhaul articles or PDFs.

[Karnith]

That's a 3.0 thing that would be fixed by the 3.5 update if you use it.
Huh, I had never noticed that Clerics got Ethereal Jaunt/Etherealness early in 3.0. Duly noted.