How Tippyverse can a PF world get?

[Dalebert]

There just aren't nearly enough Tippyverse threads right now so I thought I would try to inspire. Has PF fixed enough loopholes to prevent a Tippyverse? Maybe Tippy can chime in or anyone else. I'm not sure how much he follows PF. I'm still new to PF so I've barely explored the high level stuph or many of the magic items.

[TheIronGolem]

The core of the Tippyverse is 1) permanent Teleportation Circles and 2) create food and water traps.

Pathfinder expressly supports #1 (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/permanency), and the traps rules (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/traps-hazards-and-special-terrains/traps) seem to suggest that #2 is possible. So Pathfinder seems just as Tippy-able as 3.5 to me.

[Gemini476]

The core of the Tippyverse is 1) permanent Teleportation Circles and 2) create food and water traps.

Pathfinder expressly supports #1 (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/permanency), and the traps rules (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/traps-hazards-and-special-terrains/traps) seem to suggest that #2 is possible. So Pathfinder seems just as Tippy-able as 3.5 to me.
...Apparently, Pathfinder traps can also use non-offensive spells. One of the examples used is Detect Good.
And I'm not entirely sure if it actually explicitly requires DM permission.

A automatically resetting Wish trap costs:
500gp*17(CL)*9(Spell Level)
+25000gp(Material Component)
Total: 101500gp.
That's workable.

[ellindsey]

Crafting no longer costs XP in Pathfinder, so mass-production of magic items becomes much easier. No more bizarre XP harvesting schemes needed! There's materials and gold/diamonds cost, but Tippyverse rules assume you can easily get around those.

[Spuddles]

Extremely tippyverse. It's only a second level spell to ignore material components and teleport circle is unchanged.

Sure there's no mindrape or shadesteel golems (yet), but the basics are present.

[CIDE]

Without shadesteel and custom golems what is the best golem in PF then?

[Psyren]

Note that PF Wish cannot create items, so you do still need people actually doing the crafting.

Of course, this is offset by the fact that even commoners can craft wondrous items now.

[Gemini476]

Note that PF Wish cannot create items, so you do still need people actually doing the crafting.

Of course, this is offset by the fact that even commoners can craft wondrous items now.
Even then, the actual Tippyverse setting Tippy is working on apparently has a houserule that you need to make all choices of the spells beforehand - a Wish trap could Transport Travelers or make 25000gp, but the same trap could not do both.

So in that case you just need to settle for True Creation traps and having the unwashed masses work in factories under the direction of more competent artificers. The Aid Another checks add up!

[Gazzien]

Even then, the actual Tippyverse setting Tippy is working on apparently has a houserule that you need to make all choices of the spells beforehand - a Wish trap could Transport Travelers or make 25000gp, but the same trap could not do both.

So in that case you just need to settle for True Creation traps and having the unwashed masses work in factories under the direction of more competent artificers. The Aid Another checks add up!

That's not a houserule, that's built into Traps. There's not an interaction between activating a trap and it going off, so the decisions must be made beforehand (like Glyph of Warding). There's probably hard RAW on this, but I can't find it at the moment.

[Emperor Tippy]

Even then, the actual Tippyverse setting Tippy is working on apparently has a houserule that you need to make all choices of the spells beforehand - a Wish trap could Transport Travelers or make 25000gp, but the same trap could not do both.

That isn't a house-rule, that is how the RAW actually works. All "players choice" bits of spells need to be chosen when the trap is initially made and can't be changed later.

[Erik Vale]

*Add's Tippy to the head canon of Golorian gods as previous ruler of a hidden semi-utopia who became god out of boredom. Maybe currently god-king of said city.*

[Craft (Cheese)]

I'd sign up to be a Cleric of Tippy. What's his holy symbol?

[A.A.King]

I'd sign up to be a Cleric of Tippy. What's his holy symbol?

Cheese, high quality cheese

[Drachasor]

You can craft crafters. There are many intelligent constructs to use as a base, toss on any number of ways to get a spell-like ability (default CL is hit dice unless otherwise stated).

Leader Crafter Constructs focus on building the actual item with the relevant feat. Cooperative Crafter Constructs working together make this process as quick as possible. Doubling rules only apply to dice results, so two Cooperative Crafters quadruple crafting speed (which can already be doubled to 2000gp a day, so that's 8k). 9 Cooperative crafters let you craft an item that costs a million gp in one day. You can use Simulacrums of any powerful spellcasters if you want as well (no material component needed for the spell in PF).

So all items (and magical traps) are quick to make.

For money you just use Blood Money + Fabricate. But even without Blood Money there are plenty of ways to make as much cash as you want. The same is true of wish. You can Blood Money to get it for free (this is very easy) or just acquire the money any number of other ways. Without Blood Money, money can easily be made via Fabricate on raw materials and then Teleport to sell to various locations (avoids any "market flooding" concerns).

[skyth]

You can use Simulacrums of any powerful spellcasters if you want as well (no material component needed for the spell in PF).


Simulacrum requires 500 gp/HD of monster created. Still, negligible with all the ways to make money in Pathfinder.

Wizards are extremely powerful in Pathfinder if they aren't always on the move. They can easily create their own permanent private demi plane. Make simulacrums of Solars, use the retraining rules to give them leadership and item creation feats...You effectively have near infinite completely loyal followers on your own demiplane. Use the Kingdom rules to create your own cities inside demiplanes with Simulacrum Solars as the ruling council.
Magic items will just start appearing that you can buy (with your effectively infinite money).

You can have one of your cohorts set up for massive stealth and find targets for you on the prime material plane. Once you find one, wish 20 simulacrum Balors into close proximity. Even if they are killed, they'll still do damage. Note, that xp gain in Pathfinder isn't affected by your level.

Plus, as a 20th level wizard, you can get a feat that makes you ageless.

Traps still exist as do Teleport circles. However, you have to actually build them. Your army of simulacrums can do that for you though. But really, I don't see any high level wizards sticking around in the prime when they can easily form their own societies inside demiplanes. And by the rules, it's impossible for you to find someone who would sell you a permanency spell for a teleport circle. Yes, I know a Solar can cast permanency 3/day, but the permanency spell only works on a spell that you just cast as per RAW. (I suppose you could get an item of +Int with UMD in it, give it to the solar, have them UMD a scroll of teleport circle, then use permanency on it).

Another factoid about PF is that the +1 casting level ioun stone is an untyped bonus. There's no where you can easily buy them, but if they are randomly generated as available, it is possible for a 1st level character to cast 9th level spells...

[BWR]

I thought caster level bonuses like that never actually allowed you more spells known or ability to cast higher level spells, just increased level dependant effects of spells like range, damage, duration, difficulty to dispel etc.
Have they changed that in PF?

[WildPyre]

Hmm not sure if the +1 caster level ioun stones would stack. Untyped bonuses do stack, but not from the same source. The Orange Prism ioun stones don't have a spell required in their making, but they're still the exact same item.

My fever ridden mind can't quit decide if this works or not.

[skyth]

I don't see anything about untyped bonuses not stacking except when dealing with Story Feats.

I think you're right about the caster level bonus not affecting spells per day (Thought it was worded the same as prestige classes that give you a bonus but it isn't)...Still scrolls would be good.

[Drachasor]

Perhaps it is worthwhile to mention that since Staves are rechargeable, you can put expensive spells on a Staff and it will pay for itself over time. Within a month if it is something you'd cast every day. Limited Wish is a worthwhile mention, since it can duplicate permanency and many other useful lower level spells. You can reduce the cost by having it consume multiple charges, of course.

Kind of minor in a Tippyverse, but worth a mention I think.

[Spuddles]

Blood Money circumvents any non-magical expensive component cost to spells, so it'd let you cast simulacrum (rubies or something) for free but not tenser's transformation (str potion).

Then it's just a matter of finding a spell that creates things of gp value and boom, no gp limit on crafting.

[Drachasor]

Blood Money circumvents any non-magical expensive component cost to spells, so it'd let you cast simulacrum (rubies or something) for free but not tenser's transformation (str potion).

Then it's just a matter of finding a spell that creates things of gp value and boom, no gp limit on crafting.

Yes, that spell if Fabricate. Bare minimum, you can just fabricate gold coins. That's definitely the most straightforward option.

There's a level 1 spell that makes bullets which is another option or the spell that turns a normal weapon into a masterwork one. Once you get fabricate though you can just make ridiculous amounts of wealth.

[skyth]

Yes, that spell if Fabricate. Bare minimum, you can just fabricate gold coins. That's definitely the most straightforward option.

There's a level 1 spell that makes bullets which is another option or the spell that turns a normal weapon into a masterwork one. Once you get fabricate though you can just make ridiculous amounts of wealth.

Just sell thr casting of your orisons. RAW that gives a 1st level caster 12k gold per 8 hour day.

[Snowbluff]

Cheese, high quality cheese

I concur. I wish I knew more about cheese so I could use a specific cheese to express the extreme level of quality.

I'll google the best cheese.

[Craft (Cheese)]

Yes, but is the Holy Cheese to be depicted in wheel form, or wedge? Or perhaps as a spreadable? How about Tippy's Domains? Or His alignment? I'm willing to bet it's Chaotic Evil due to all of those dark chaos shuffles.

[Snowbluff]

Yes, but is the Holy Cheese to be depicted in wheel form, or wedge? Or perhaps as a spreadable? How about Tippy's Domains? Or His alignment? I'm willing to bet it's Chaotic Evil due to all of those dark chaos shuffles.
There's thread for this. I made it like a month ago. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=313299) :smalltongue:

Anyway, the cheese is Parmegiano-Reggiano. It's the ultimate cheese. They are made in wheels, but you are only expected to carry a wedge. Sprinkle on your meal in homage to Tippy.

[Gemini476]

I concur. I wish I knew more about cheese so I could use a specific cheese to express the extreme level of quality.

I'll google the best cheese.

A somewhat famous odorous cheese would be the Gorgonzola, if you want something well-known that says "stinky cheese".

I don't know that much about cheese, though. Luckily, Google managed to point me towards some cheese enthusiast websites!
Filled with spambots.
Since I'm not fond of having spam with my cheese, I have abandoned my brief foray into the realm of cheesemongers. ("How much of a cheesemonger are you? Test your cheesy knowledge with this Cheese Trivia!")


Tippy's optimization palate is more like a cheese plate than any one specific cheese: you have the white mold, the green mold, the hard cheeses, the soft cheeses, and they all combine into one big appetizer.

He's probably Lawful Evil, since that's the posterchild for finding loopholes in the rules and following the letter of the law rather than the spirit. Or Chaotic (something) due to all those [Chaotic] Dark Chaos spells and [Abyssal Heritor] feats, but both Chaotic Good and Chaotic Evil can work with since Elder Evils and Vow of Poverty both give a bunch of feats.

[Snowbluff]

I wouldn't describe it as "stinky cheese."

[Gemini476]

I wouldn't describe it as "stinky cheese."
Then go for something else, instead, like the Parmegiano-Reggiano you mentioned.

Some people on this forum call DCFS and Wish Traps stinky cheese, so that's why I brought that up.

Personally I don't have any experience with cheese of any better quality than Gouda, although I do enjoy some of the more Gorgonzola-esque aspects of 3.5.