Tips on a Mermaid Fighter Build?

[CrazyYanmega]

I got some great tips on Tik'ik Ka, the Thri-kreen Psy-warrior. But now for a real challenge for this forum. How do I best optimize Levia, my Mermaid Fighter? I plan to go full fighter, because I REALLY want to mess around with Weapon Supremacy (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/weapon-supremacy--3125/). Here's her stats:

Levia (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=726617)
Female CN Merfolk Fighter, Level 1 (1), Init +2, HP 12/12, Speed 5 ft., Swim 50 ft.
AC 16, Touch 12, Flat-footed 14, Fort +4, Ref +2, Will +0, Base Attack Bonus 1
Long Blade Bow (Blade) +4 (1d10+3, 19-20)
Long Blade Bow (Bow) (40 arrows) +4 (1d8, x3)
Scale Mail (+4 Armor, +2 Dex)
Abilities Str 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 15

Levia's current two feats are Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Longblade Bow) and Weapon Focus (Longblade Bow)

Ah, homebrew weapons house-ruled in by the DM...

Important info: The Longblade bow is a two-handed exotic weapon. It can be used as a bow, or as a melee weapon. The bow acts as a Composite Longbow with no strength bonus and reduced range. It needs to be upgraded to allow use of the strength modifier. The blade seems to act as a Bastard Sword.

I was thinking of taking the Combat Brute (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-warrior--61/combat-brute--389/) feat, since I would be needing to charge around the battlefield to move at a semi-decent speed anyway. That, or my team-mates suggest that I act like a Tower Defense tower, sticking in one place to draw enemies in, then hacking them to pieces when they get close.

That's all of the important info, I think. Tell me if you need more information, or what you think of the character idea as well.

[Dr. Azkur]

Oh my, are you really planning on going through with that 5ft land speed? The fact that you're going to have a bow helps quite a lot but what are you going to do when it is rendered useless (Unless you expressly build an archer, archery dies a depressing death at some point of your life)? Are you aware anything except a castle can kite its way with you? Aside for the regular purpose of optimizing... imagine the situation in which there is a kid running around throwing stones at you and you, mighty trained warrior, can't help but to chase him without ever being able to catch up. Yeah. What enemies throw are not stones and what they don't do is get near the thing that has a big ass sword, so that's a problem with the tower strategy thing.

Don't get me wrong, I always wanted to play that race, but you simply just can't rely on that land speed.

Here are a few ways you can overcome that:
-Don't come out of the water
What does this get you? Much better main speed and not being utterly ridiculous. (I'm sorry I'm being this blunt I just can't shake the image of a sexy woman trying to chop my head off but not being able to move since she doesn't have feet)

-Sudden Leap + Leaping Dragon Stance (This is achievable through either 3 feats, or a Warblade 1 Dip and 1 feat).
What does this get you? Well, you're no longer dragging your huge fish bottom all over the everywhere. INSTEAD YOU ARE JUMPING FROM ENEMY TO ENEMY WITH ABSOLUTELY NO REGARD FOR PHYSICS. I must say this is my favorite option since it is the perfect blend between a gigantic degree of hilarious, a gigantic degree of awesome (seriously, your primary move speed just became taking great leaps. And you have no legs) and actually being very viable in combat: Sudden Leap makes jumping a SWIFT action, so you no longer spend move actions to move. So you can full attack EVERY ROUND, while Leaping Dragon Stance makes that possible (+10 to Jump checks and halved DC).

Get a fly speed (There was a thread not long ago addressing how to achieve flight at the earliest, look it up)
What does this get you? Much realistic experiences. You get to actually touch moving objects. And you get to fly. Viable? Yes. Pretentious? Probably but it's much pretentious to think the fighter can make it without moving.

Once and only once you have fixed the mobility issue you can start thinking about what you're gonna do with this sexy fighting sushi girl. I just said...
Sexy. ...
...
...
Why is CHA your fighter's highest stat?
My brain is blocked and until you answer that I won't be able to keep helping you.

[Flickerdart]

Do you really want to go full fighter? A strategic 2-level swordsage dip at the right time (levels 19 and 20, to be precise) will give you access to Shadow Jaunt and Shadow Stride, letting you teleport around the battlefield like a badass.

I wouldn't recommend the jumping thing - you get -12 to Jump checks for having a 5ft land speed, so until you can fix that, you're going nowhere in a hurry.

[Dr. Azkur]

Do you really want to go full fighter? A strategic 2-level swordsage dip at the right time (levels 19 and 20, to be precise) will give you access to Shadow Jaunt and Shadow Stride, letting you teleport around the battlefield like a badass.

I wouldn't recommend the jumping thing - you get -12 to Jump checks for having a 5ft land speed, so until you can fix that, you're going nowhere in a hurry.

Oh my, it's been a while since I read the jumping entry, you're right about the penalty... So yeah the Shadow Jaunt line is best, and looks pretty damn badass, but the swordsage recovery method isn't exactly optimal -specially not since this concerns mobility-. Though you can grab swordsage maneuvers through martial study as a Warblade and recover them as such, right?

[CrazyYanmega]

Charisma is Levia's highest score because I calculated that mermaids got a +2 bonus to Dexterity, Constitution, and Charisma. I put her highest base roll, 14, into strength.

Why would adding the Swordsage levels at level 19-20 help, as opposed to earlier?

One of my teammates did suggest we invest in some sort of flight capability item as quickly as possible.

Another idea I had for before then was that mermaids are NOT expressly forbidden from using mounts...

[Gnome Alone]

Ranger 20 with Favored Enemy: Mermaids.

You're welcome.

[Greenish]

How likely are you to actually get to level 18 (ECL 19 if you're not using LA buyout)?

[CrazyYanmega]

Reasonably likely. I think that after the speed issue is worked out, she'll be able to hold her own.

However, I worry that if I get a fly speed, so will every enemy we encounter.

[infomatic]

Reasonably likely. I think that after the speed issue is worked out, she'll be able to hold her own.

However, I worry that if I get a fly speed, so will every enemy we encounter.

Doesn't matter. A large portion of your enemies will have fly anyway. And what happens when you're stuck in an AOE effect? You NEED to be able to move, relatively quickly, or you're doomed.

What about a Barbarian dip for the +10 movement? That'll bring you to 15, which makes the Sudden Leap/Leaping Dragon option a bit more palatable.

[Flickerdart]

Why would adding the Swordsage levels at level 19-20 help, as opposed to earlier?
Your Initiator Level (which you need for learning maneuvers and stances) is calculated as the sum of your Martial Adept levels plus half of your other levels. Since Shadow Stride is a 5th level maneuver, you need to have an IL of 11 9 before you can take it. 18 Fighter levels provide an IL of 9, so you have IL 10 when you gain the first level of Swordsage, and IL 11 when you gain the second.

You don't have to take the first level of Swordsage at 19 though. You'll want to use it to pick up Shadow Jaunt, which is level 3 and needs an IL of 5, so you could do it as soon as level 9 (Fighter 8/Swordsage 1).

[Karnith]

Since Shadow Stride is a 5th level maneuver, you need to have an IL of 11 before you can take it.
Nitpick: You only need IL 9 to learn Shadow Stride; the minimum IL for a given maneuver is (maneuver level x 2) - 1.

[Flickerdart]

Nitpick: You only need IL 9 to learn Shadow Stride; the minimum IL for a given maneuver is (maneuver level x 2) - 1.
Oh. Yes, that does make sense. For some reason I had confused 5th and 6th level.

[Dr. Azkur]

I insist on taking a Warblade 1 dip as opposed to Swordsage X, and Martial Study to take Shadow Stride (which if I'm not wrong as no prereqs, but there could be an errata I haven't read yet). Why? because as a Swordsage you have to recover that single maneuver with a full-round action, so each time you want to move you have to do nothing for a whole turn, while as a Warblade you recover all your maneuvers with a swift and an attack (or whirling your longbow blade)

[Flickerdart]

The problem with warblade dips is that you have to coordinate feat slots with when you can qualify. You're giving up either an 18th level or a 15th level feat slot to get it, and those are valuable slots that many other end-game feats are competing for.

[Dr. Azkur]

MARTIAL STUDY

Benefit: When you gain this feat, you must choose a discipline of martial maneuvers, such as Desert Wind. The key skill for the chosen discipline becomes a class skill for all your classes (current and future).
Select any maneuver from the chosen discipline for which you meet the prerequisite.

I have always read that as 'you can take it whenever you want as long as you know the number of maneuvers we tell you to know'. But I guess it's up to his DM (or I'm downright wrong), I'd ask away. Otherwise yes, he should take swordsage.

[CrazyYanmega]

Swordsage and Warblade, with the Martial Study feat. Got it.

Is Armor Specialization (DR 2/-) worth the feat?

[Flickerdart]

Is Armor Specialization (DR 2/-) worth the feat?

Not even a little bit.

[CrazyYanmega]

Not even a little bit.

Okay. How about Combat Brute?

[avr]

Note that your warblade level -2 counts as fighter levels for feat prereqs. If you're OK getting weapon supremacy at level 20, you could take up to 19 levels of warblade and one of fighter. Warblade is not only more fun than fighter IMO, it would let you pick up shadow jaunt at level 3 and/or shadow stride at level 9 via martial study.

[CrazyYanmega]

Note that your warblade level -2 counts as fighter levels for feat prereqs. If you're OK getting weapon supremacy at level 20, you could take up to 19 levels of warblade and one of fighter. Warblade is not only more fun than fighter IMO, it would let you pick up shadow jaunt at level 3 and/or shadow stride at level 9 via martial study.

Could I get Weapon Supremacy (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/weapon-supremacy--3125/) if I did that? I don't think I would have enough feats to do that. I mean, it needs 5 feats to qualify for it, and none of them are Warblade bonus feats.I'm also unsure if the timing of natural feat gain would coincide with the levels gained to qualify for the prerequisite feats.

[avr]

Point on the feat shortage. Well, it still works if you mix in more fighter levels. I think you can afford up to 6 non-warblade levels if you want to pick up 9th level maneuvers by level 20, more if you're willing to live with less.

How's multiclassing/favored class working in your campaign? If it's used RAW and you want to avoid multiclassing penalties, warblade 10/fighter 10 is still better than fighter 20.

[CrazyYanmega]

We're applying the RAW penalties. (Assuming that RAW means the base rules.)

Merfolk favored class is Bard, and considering the troubles with the group bard in the current campaign (He enjoys mind controlling the entire party with Diplomacy and Bluff) I think the group wants a break from bards.

Heck, one of the reasons Levia's Charisma is so high is for a little extra defense from Diplomacy Mind Control. (Also for flavor, and I can always use her mermaid wiles to chip down prices.)

[The Oni]

RAW meaning Rules As Written, meaning you interpret the rules as a lawyer with an agenda. This is opposed to RAI (Rules As Intended), meaning you interpret them as a sane person who considers what the designer was intending when he wrote it.

She doesn't strike me as terribly optimized, although for a more story-driven campaign she seems mostly OK other than the obvious mobility issues. For mobility I would strongly suggest some manner of mount unless this is explicitly a very sea-based campaign.

There are some Pathfinder traits I can think of that would let you up her movement speed (Strongtail will give you 10 movement speed rather than 5 for free) but I assumed this was strictly 3.5.

[avr]

Warblade 10/Fighter 10 then. This means that you won't be able to pick up Shadow Jaunt until character level 4, the Absolute Steel stance (+10' move) until character level 9 or Shadow Stride until character level 12. At least you should have the feats required.

Some sort of chariot might be worth looking into.

[CrazyYanmega]

RAW meaning Rules As Written, meaning you interpret the rules as a lawyer with an agenda. This is opposed to RAI (Rules As Intended), meaning you interpret them as a sane person who considers what the designer was intending when he wrote it.

There are some Pathfinder traits I can think of that would let you up her movement speed (Strongtail will give you 10 movement speed rather than 5 for free) but I assumed this was strictly 3.5.

I may go for the Strongtail trait. I'm pretty sure my DM will approve it. I mean, I managed to convince him to let my druid's Dire Wolf animal companion wear Steel Plate armor and wield a +5 Adamantine Longsword in my current campaign.

[Endarire]

A Warblade or/and Bloodstorm Blade can also access Weapon Supremacy since

Fighter levels = Warblade levels + Fighter levels + Bloodstorm Blade levels - 2.

[The Oni]

I may go for the Strongtail trait. I'm pretty sure my DM will approve it. I mean, I managed to convince him to let my druid's Dire Wolf animal companion wear Steel Plate armor and wield a +5 Adamantine Longsword in my current campaign.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/195/379/1320452774001.png

So does he hold it in his teeth then?

[CrazyYanmega]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/195/379/1320452774001.png

So does he hold it in his teeth then?

The group has an unwritten rule that you can pretty much get away with anything, provided you can give a logical explanation as to why something should be that way, it doesn't irreparably break the game (this is how I got my Chaos Roc and Phase Wasp animal companions, by the way), and with bonus points if you can provide some sort of precedent. I submitted my argument with the following clip, and won my case.

http://youtu.be/fkyi8aLgq_k?t=1m29s

EDIT: Anyway, I'm considering the possibility of multi-classing, looking at Strongtail, and looking into cheap flight items.

Does anyone have suggestions on effective bonus fighter feats for Levia?

[Dr. Azkur]

That last post just crushed my ability to bear ludicrousness. I'm out. Good luck with Ms. Sushi.

[CrazyYanmega]

Well, it has to be within reason. If you're going to do something crazy, you'd better have a freaky strong argument, or else it isn't happening. So, any suggested fighter Bonus Feats, assuming I've already taken care of the movement issue?

[Invader]

Dark and shadow templates both increase your speed 10ft and 50% respectively.

[Metahuman1]

Ok, I am gonna throw this out there.

Get 11 Animated objects, as small as you can and all with at bear minimum a +9 to attack roll to hit bonuses. Keep them in your armor, out of the line of fire.

Have them use aid another actions to boost your too hit.

Now, get Hanks Bow's properties placed on this weapon. Then take power attack.

Enjoy having enough damage to matter in combat and getting around a lot of the easy archery shut downs.

[Flickerdart]

Ok, I am gonna throw this out there.

Get 11 Animated objects, as small as you can and all with at bear minimum a +9 to attack roll to hit bonuses. Keep them in your armor, out of the line of fire.

Have them use aid another actions to boost your too hit.

Now, get Hanks Bow's properties placed on this weapon. Then take power attack.

Enjoy having enough damage to matter in combat and getting around a lot of the easy archery shut downs.
This still doesn't work, because objects small enough to be kept in your armour don't have the reach to Aid Another against enemies outside your square. Aid Another only works on melee combat, so the bow thing doesn't work.