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Fat Daddy
2007-01-20, 01:21 PM
Okay, so I have never played in DL before and rarely play a wizard. Here's the deal, I will be a Whiterobe which means I have to specialize in either Abjuration or Divination. I will choose Abjuration. My prohibited schools have to be any 2 of the following: Illusion, Transmutation, Enchantment, Necromancy. Also I will be getting enhanced specialization (class feature of Wizard of High Sorcery prestige class) which will require me to prohibit a 3rd school from the list. So basically my question is which 1 school should I not prohibit?
Also, Feat suggestions for a level 4 human wizard would be greatly appreciated. Books allowed are Core, Complete series, and DL campaign and Age of Mortals.

Thanks!!

InaVegt
2007-01-20, 01:31 PM
Well, the major second level buffing spells (the animal's ability series) are all in transmutation, that's the major reason I never block transmutation in low level games. Since those spells keep their usefullness for at least a couple more levels, not to mention transmutations holds tons of usefull utility spells which can be accesses at this level and stay useful for long. (Knock, whispering wind and Spider climb to name a few)

jjpickar
2007-01-20, 01:41 PM
I agree with Gezina on transmutation. Hooray Disintegrate! As for feats Weapon Focus (Ray) and Ranged Touch Specialization make Scorching Ray and Ray of Enfeeblement better so if you pick them don't prohibit Necromancy or Evocation.

Fat Daddy
2007-01-20, 01:46 PM
Okay. I will select Illusion and Enchantment as my prohibited schools for specializing in Abjuration. When I gain Enhanced specialization should I prohibit Transmutation or Necromancy. Keep in mind that I will have access to all the spells from the selected school I already have, I will simply be unable to learn any more spells from that school. Basically which one is better to stop at 2nd level spells and which has the better higher level spells (3+)?

Thanks

Behold_the_Void
2007-01-20, 01:50 PM
I'm surprised White Robes aren't required to prohibit Necromancy. Honestly, from the Dragonlance point of view, I'd prohibit Necromancy due to the fact that it's generally seen as the domain of the Black Robes.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-20, 01:52 PM
Gah, a whiterobe! Wouldn't you much rather be a blackrobe? Or even a redrobe? Come on...they're goody two-shoes. :smalltongue:

That being said, I'd say bar Necromancy, though mostly for the even "goodier two-shoes" feel. Like Behold_The_Void said. Kind of.

Behold_the_Void
2007-01-20, 01:56 PM
Gah, a whiterobe! Wouldn't you much rather be a blackrobe? Or even a redrobe? Come on...they're goody two-shoes. :smalltongue:

That being said, I'd say bar Necromancy, though mostly for the even "goodier two-shoes" feel. Like Behold_The_Void said. Kind of.

What's a white robe if not sickeningly goody-two-shoes? :p

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-20, 01:56 PM
Instead of packing water, wines, or ales for journeys, pack milk. Your foodstuffs should always include white bread (peel off the crust), balogna, mayonaise, chocolate pudding, and hot dogs. Proudly bare the symbols of your order across your vest- especially badges, which you should have a few dozen of. Remember to refer to evil as "naughty", "icky" and "bad". You eat your pudding with a spoon. Remain jaded in everything you do, such as any instance where you're forced to kill.

There. The perfect White Robe.

Fat Daddy
2007-01-20, 01:59 PM
I'm surprised White Robes aren't required to prohibit Necromancy. Honestly, from the Dragonlance point of view, I'd prohibit Necromancy due to the fact that it's generally seen as the domain of the Black Robes.


Per the DL campaign book A whiterobe is required to specialize in either Abjuration or Divination and prohibit 2 schools that the other 'robes' are required to specialize in. So... reds must specialize in either illusion or transmutaion, blacks must specialize in either necromancy or enchantment. I can pick any of those four schools. So I could actually leave necromancy in and still meet all the requirements. Besides who would expect a whiterobe to be casting necromancy spells? Gotta love the surprise factor...

mikeejimbo
2007-01-20, 01:59 PM
What's a white robe if not sickeningly goody-two-shoes? :p

Whiterobes: The Paladins of Spell-casting!

Except Whiterobes aren't so much into the "You evil you die!" thing, at least if they are, our group tends to kill them before they kill us.

I dunno if it's all Blackrobes, or just ours that want to kill every sorcerer, bard, Whiterobe and most Redrobes, but either way, he's cool.


Instead of packing water, wines, or ales for journeys, pack milk. Your foodstuffs should always include white bread (peel off the crust), balogna, mayonaise, chocolate pudding, and hot dogs. Proudly bare the symbols of your order across your vest- especially badges, which you should have a few dozen of. Remember to refer to evil as "naughty", "icky" and "bad". You eat your pudding with a spoon. Remain jaded in everything you do, such as any instance where you're forced to kill.

There. The perfect White Robe.

Waaaaait, wouldn't vanilla pudding make more sense?

InaVegt
2007-01-20, 02:00 PM
Not only does it feel better with the fluff, ray of enfeeblement isn't that strong, Though specialising in rays isn't the best thing to do, if I were you I'd pick spell focus (Abjuration) and brew potion, you need a spell focus and either an item creation or metamagic feat to enter your PrC anyway. Brew potion also gives you the ability to make some of those handy buffs in potion format.

Behold_the_Void
2007-01-20, 02:02 PM
I just have troubles justifying White Robes using Necromancy. Because I remember it was mentioned in several of the Dragonlance books that Necromancy is considered to be the realm of the darker robes, and something that White Robes, as a general rule, do not use.

Plus I personally like Transmutation as a school better, but that's just me.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-20, 02:03 PM
Ah yes, vanilla. Good catch. Chocolate isn't nearly bland enough.

Fat Daddy
2007-01-20, 02:04 PM
Gah, a whiterobe! Wouldn't you much rather be a blackrobe? Or even a redrobe? Come on...they're goody two-shoes. :smalltongue:

That being said, I'd say bar Necromancy, though mostly for the even "goodier two-shoes" feel. Like Behold_The_Void said. Kind of.
'Cause I don't like to play evil characters so no blackrobes and I didn't want to specialize in transmutation or illusion so the reds were out. :smallfrown:


Not only does it feel better with the fluff, ray of enfeeblement isn't that strong, Though specialising in rays isn't the best thing to do, if I were you I'd pick spell focus (Abjuration) and brew potion, you need a spell focus and either an item creation or metamagic feat to enter your PrC anyway. Brew potion also gives you the ability to make some of those handy buffs in potion format.
Wouldn't the Scribe Scroll bonus feat for wizards qualify for the item creation feat?
EDIT: Nevermind. I re-read the pre-reqs and it's spell focus and any 2 item creation or metamagic feats. Guess you already took the scribe scroll into account. :smallfrown:

InaVegt
2007-01-20, 02:05 PM
Wouldn't the Scribe Scroll bonus feat for wizards qualify for the item creation feat?

You need two, I was taking that one into account.

Fat Daddy
2007-01-20, 02:44 PM
:smallredface: I read that even as you posted Gezina. Should never have doubted you! It sounds like the consensus is that I will prohibit necromancy when I gain Enhanced Specialization thus leaving Transmutation open for advancement. Thanks folks. I'll post the character here when I get it done for your review/critiquing.

EDIT: I agree with Gezina's suggestions on feats but I still have the human level one bonus feat to use up. I was thinking Combat Casting or perhaps Spell Penetration or Greater Spell Focus. Suggestions?

Hallavast
2007-01-20, 02:56 PM
Ya know, in the Age of Mortals supplement there is a variant that lets wizards of any robe elect to be generalists and still take the prestige class. They just lose the enhanced specialization feature. Run it by your DM and see what he says.

Also, depending on how your DM rules it, you don't necessarily have to take the prestige class to join the order of High Sorcery. Or, another road could be to simply become a renegade. Depending on what era you play in, the Conclave may or may not bother you too much.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-01-20, 03:25 PM
You should definitely get Spellcasting Prodigy from the AoM supplement if allowed.

InaVegt
2007-01-20, 04:41 PM
You should definitely get Practised Spellcaster from the AoM supplement if allowed.

He's going pure spellcaster, that PrC doesn't cut your spellcasting at all. Practised spellcaster can't raise your caster level above your character level.

Fat Daddy
2007-01-20, 04:53 PM
You should definitely get Spellcasting Prodigy from the AoM supplement if allowed.
Do you mean Spellcasting Prodigy?

EDIT: Guess so since you changed it as I quoted you. :smallsmile:

That's a pretty good feat. I like it. I am still wondering if Combat Casting is worth taking instead.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-01-20, 04:54 PM
He's going pure spellcaster, that PrC doesn't cut your spellcasting at all. Practised spellcaster can't raise your caster level above your character level.

That is absolutely correct and that is why I meant to write Spellcasting Prodigy.

Practised Spellcaster is not even in AoM.



P.s. And I am very happy that I could edit my post before Fat Daddy had time to post :-p

P.p.s. Spell Focus in ALL schools AND Bonus spells for one feat. What more can you really ask for?
This is a must have feat for all casters on Krynn.

Thomas
2007-01-20, 05:04 PM
I'm surprised White Robes aren't required to prohibit Necromancy. Honestly, from the Dragonlance point of view, I'd prohibit Necromancy due to the fact that it's generally seen as the domain of the Black Robes.



Actually, in AD&D, I seem to recall that white robes were the only ones who got some powerful necromancy spells (power word kill?), as well as some other powerful combat spells (delayed blast fireball)... They were the most trustworthy ones, I guess, so could be counted on not to misuse the spells?

I could remember wrong, though; I've only played AD&D Dragonlance in the form of CK, DKK, and DQK, and it's been 2-3 years since I last played those.

Fat Daddy
2007-01-20, 05:09 PM
That is absolutely correct and that is why I meant to write Spellcasting Prodigy.

Practised Spellcaster is not even in AoM.



P.s. And I am very happy that I could edit my post before Fat Daddy had time to post :-p

P.p.s. Spell Focus in ALL schools AND Bonus spells for one feat. What more can you really ask for?
This is a must have feat for all casters on Krynn.
??? I'm a little confused. It basically says that for bonus spells and DCs your primary ability score is treated as 2 points higher. I don't see where the Spell Focus in ALL schools comes in. What am I missing?

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-01-20, 05:10 PM
That's a pretty good feat. I like it. I am still wondering if Combat Casting is worth taking instead.

It is not. :smallsmile:
Spellcasting Prodigy is not just "pretty good", it is good in a broken way. :smallbiggrin:

You do not get Spell Focus, but it effectively grants you the same as if you had taken Spell Focus in all schools (The save DC increases by one, but for all your spells no matter which school they are from).

mikeejimbo
2007-01-20, 05:16 PM
It is not. :smallsmile:
Spellcasting Prodigy is not just "pretty good", it is good in a broken way. :smallbiggrin:

You do not get Spell Focus, but it effectively grants you the same as if you had taken Spell Focus in all schools (The save DC increases by one, but for all your spells no matter which school they are from).

Mrrrh....this is available to ALL casters on Krynn?? Not just Arcane?

I should take it then....

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-01-20, 05:22 PM
Yes, yes it is.
And all casters should have it, but there are a few problems concerning when you can take it.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-20, 05:23 PM
Yes, yes it is.
And all casters should have it, but there are a few problems concerning when you can take it.

I will ask my DM about it in about an hour.

We may not have decided on a good wizard yet, but you may have improved this cleric. :smallbiggrin:

InaVegt
2007-01-20, 05:32 PM
The few problems he's talking about is IIRC that you can only take it at first level.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-20, 05:38 PM
The few problems he's talking about is IIRC that you can only take it at first level.

That's all right, I'll kill myself and create a new character to be better optimized. :smalltongue:

Fat Daddy
2007-01-20, 06:13 PM
Alright then. Looks like feat selection is Spell Focus (Abjuration), Brew Potion, and Spellcasting Prodigy. Yay. Thanks everyone.

AtomicKitKat
2007-01-20, 09:04 PM
You could try almond pudding. That's white too, and kind of bitter. A bit like the White Robes themselves, really. ;)

clarkvalentine
2007-01-20, 10:36 PM
...I will be a Whiterobe which means I have to specialize in either Abjuration or Divination. ...


Unless your DM is houseruling that (it's not an uncommon house rule for DL), that's not the case. You can focus in anything you want (you can even stay a generalist).

Edit: Oh, you're limited to the DL campaign setting. That's unfortunate. This was errata'ed in later supplements.

- Clark

clarkvalentine
2007-01-20, 10:39 PM
This is a must have feat for all casters on Krynn.


Yeah, it was nerfed a bit in a later supplement when the designers collectively went "Holy crap, what were we smoking?"

You should really see if your DM will allow use of Towers of High Sorcery supplement - it has the updated (by which I mean Fixed) version of the Wizard of High Sorcery PrC, as well as some other nifty PrCs, spells, and feats. As well as a nice history of arcane events on Krynn, which is great for setting newbies.

- Clark, DL game designer

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-01-21, 03:18 AM
Yeah, it was nerfed a bit in a later supplement when the designers collectively went "Holy crap, what were we smoking?"

I do not know, but it must have been something really really really good :smallbiggrin:

We always nerfed it along with Heroic Surge.


It is a really great campaign setting. :smallsmile: