value of animate dead for non-necromancers.

[Darth Stabber]

So I was working on a character for a gestalt game (warblade//factotum if it matters) and I realized that there was nothing stopping me from bringing a small undead contingent along for the ride. I realize that he'll never be a master of the undead hordes, and without further investment he will never even have that good of undead minions, but I am wondering about the marginal value of a 4th level slot to a non-dedicated caster, and what the return on onyx investment is? I have used animate dead on non-necromancer wizards and sorcerers before, and it has worked okay, but on a primarily melee based character would it be worth my time and money?

[Twilightwyrm]

Depends on how much you need menial tasks taken care of and meat shields.

[Coidzor]

You're better off investing in a Nightcaller's Whistle for 2 zombies of up to 10 HD (so you could have 2 flying mounts, for instance) per member of the party and its retinue that will be present for battles than having low caster level Animate Dead without any further ability to use it.

Now, if you had a necromancer in the party and thus access to desecrate and maybe some other tricks, every party member having their own animate dead control pool to contribute would probably be more valuable. I can't recall if there's a way to add pre-existing undead to one's animate dead control pool, but I feel like there might be in one of the dragon magazines.

As a spell like ability that has a caster level that scales with your HD, it's great for anyone. As a spell with a stagnant caster level, you'd have to have a decently high caster level to start with in order for it to be worthwhile.

[cakellene]

INteresting sidebar, any character that uses animate dead could properly be called a necromancer.

[Darth Stabber]

INteresting sidebar, any character that uses animate dead could properly be called a necromancer.

Technically it would be anyone who casts speak with dead is a necromancer. "-mancer" roughly means "divination by means of" and "necro-" of course means "dead/death".

But yeah, the last wizard I played was a conjurer who had cast animate dead like 4 times at the most, never had more than 2 at a time (a zombie dragon, and a couple random skeletons), and on occasion used ray of enfeeblement or enervation, and the rest of the party referred to him as "the necromancer". I used tons of buffs, teleports, and summons, but that means nothing compared to the obvious visual cue of a dude in a black cloak riding a zombie dragon.

But by virtue of getting animate dead via factotum I do have full caster level on it.

[tadkins]

INteresting sidebar, any character that uses animate dead could properly be called a necromancer.

Could also have a necromancer that never raises an undead creature in their lives, too.

[Astroturtle]

My favorite use of the undead?

Trap fodder. Send them marching down the obviously trapped hall and spring every single one of the traps. It saved us so much time when we had a trap happy DM.

Also, the undead are perfectly happy being crammed into a bag of holding. So you can raise a small army and just send out what you need when you need it.

>.> Also, it was hilarious when we were arrested and the sheriff opened my Bag o' Ghouls.

[Mithril Leaf]

My favorite use of the undead?

Trap fodder. Send them marching down the obviously trapped hall and spring every single one of the traps. It saved us so much time when we had a trap happy DM.

Also, the undead are perfectly happy being crammed into a bag of holding. So you can raise a small army and just send out what you need when you need it.

>.> Also, it was hilarious when we were arrested and the sheriff opened my Bag o' Ghouls.

Using them for traps works extra well if you have your bag of holding (or enveloping pit as I prefer) lined with black sand so they heal and you trade them out when they're about to collapse.

[Coidzor]

But by virtue of getting animate dead via factotum I do have full caster level on it.

Then, yeah, if you've got the right sort of corpses or want to hunt them down or fashion them using vegan necromancy and make sure to have a desecrate effect up, it can be worth your while to do so, just as it can for anyone with access to animate dead with a decent caster level.

Still might consider the Nightcaller's Whistle anyway though. It's in both Sunless Citadel and Libris Mortis, IIRC.