Wizard Help

[metalith]

I am creating a new character for a new campaign. The campaign is going to run from 1-20.

I need to fill the arcane slot of the group.

There is one big stipulation we are only allowed to use 3 books for the character for the entire campaign, which are used for race, class, prestige class and spells.

Items will be coming from any book so does not apply to the 3 book rule.

I would like to make the best wizard possible. I have been thinking about using Player's Handbook, Complete Mage and Spell Compendium.

A Human Focused Conjurer which will eventually use Master Specialist and maybe cap it with Abjurant Champion.

If anyone can come up with a better wizard progression from 1-20 only using 3 books I would love to see what is possible.

[(Un)Inspired]

Drop abjurant champion. It's incredibly cool and basically necessary for any Gish but it's a huge waste for any non Gish wizard. All it's gonna do is lure you into wasting spell slots.

Use complete divine for one of you books and take rainbow servant. Now you got complete wizard casting and complete cleric casting without losing any caster levels.

[Douglas]

Does the Player's Handbook really count as one of your three? I'd expect that one to be free for everyone.

[metalith]

If I use Complete Divine I would have to either cut Complete Mage or Spell Compendium.

Yes. Player's Handbook counts as one of the three. I know. I know.

[(Un)Inspired]

Cut complete Mage.

[Gamereaper]

Drop abjurant champion. It's incredibly cool and basically necessary for any Gish but it's a huge waste for any non Gish wizard. All it's gonna do is lure you into wasting spell slots.

Use complete divine for one of you books and take rainbow servant. Now you got complete wizard casting and complete cleric casting without losing any caster levels.

No man, all you need is Shield (or Mage Armor if your DM allows you). You don't need any more spells. You're "sacrificing" a LEVEL ONE spell slot for the potential X2.5 MORE HP for 5 levels and +5 BAB which is AWESOME for Wizards using Melee or Ranged Touch. Not to mention the free metamagics for protective spells, that makes you A LOT less squishy than a straight wizard.

If you want to give it a shot, I used Battle Sorcerer instead of Wizard since I met the prerequisites without the use of feats. Sure, you lose 1 spell/day and known, but you get a D8, a 3/4 BAB, and light armor use.


Also, grab a couple "Conjuration, Creation [ACID]" spells to deal with those pesky constructs and golems with Spell Immunity. They can't resist spells that don't allow Spell Resistance.

[Khedrac]

I would like to make the best wizard possible.There are so many different sorts of wizards, we really need to know what sort you want to be.

I had a lot of fun playing a war weaver (Heroes of Battle) - they simply cannot be beaten for party buffing, and as a wizard you can still hand out a lot of damage when needed, but it is usually more efficient to buff the party then step back and let them do the killing.

I second the question about the PHB - do ask your DM if it really counts as on fo the 3. It is necessary for most races and fats, in fact a lot of books don't have that many feats at all!

[HunterOfJello]

I'm in a similar situation in a game that I play in. I ended up using the Spell Compendium and Player's Guide to Faerun (for Incantatrix).

If I was you, I would go with the PHB, SC, and then whichever book has the strong wizard prestige class that you want to go after. The first two cover all the spells you'll really need and a good PrC is a better asset than any alternate class features, few extra spells, or feats you might obtain from other books.

Incantatrix is an amazing prestige class from Player's Guide to Faerun which would also allow you to gain access to Persistent Spell as well as Shadow Adept (an amazing 1 level dip PrC) since they are both also featured in that same book.

Complete Arcane also has some good feats in it as well as strong Prestige Classes.

[(Un)Inspired]

No man, all you need is Shield (or Mage Armor if your DM allows you). You don't need any more spells. You're "sacrificing" a LEVEL ONE spell slot for the potential X2.5 MORE HP for 5 levels and +5 BAB which is AWESOME for Wizards using Melee or Ranged Touch. Not to mention the free metamagics for protective spells, that makes you A LOT less squishy than a straight wizard.

If you want to give it a shot, I used Battle Sorcerer instead of Wizard since I met the prerequisites without the use of feats. Sure, you lose 1 spell/day and known, but you get a D8, a 3/4 BAB, and light armor use.


Also, grab a couple "Conjuration, Creation [ACID]" spells to deal with those pesky constructs and golems with Spell Immunity. They can't resist spells that don't allow Spell Resistance.

A non Gish wizard should never waste spells or turns casting shield or Mage armor. Cleric casting gives him dramatically better bab then abjurant champion and the vigor spells will more than make up for the hp difference.

A wizard shouldnt be worried about ac the first place. Gishes are incredibly fun but have you noticed that they never come close to the top wizard builds? You'll never seen someone post an optimized non-Gish wizard build with abjurant champion when there are prestige classes like incantatrix, IoTSV or rainbow servant.

[Gamereaper]

A non Gish wizard should never waste spells or turns casting shield or Mage armor. Cleric casting gives him dramatically better bab then abjurant champion and the vigor spells will more than make up for the hp difference.

A wizard shouldnt be worried about ac the first place. Gishes are incredibly fun but have you noticed that they never come close to the top wizard builds? You'll never seen someone post an optimized non-Gish wizard build with abjurant champion when there are prestige classes like incantatrix, IoTSV or rainbow servant.

A wizard WILL get hit by something in his career. If he can get a full BAB and a D10 with no loss to CL, why not use it? An Abjurant Champion doesn't NEED to be played as a Gish. I used that with my Battle Sorcerer and played caster and it worked wonderfully.

[DMVerdandi]

I am creating a new character for a new campaign. The campaign is going to run from 1-20.

I need to fill the arcane slot of the group.

There is one big stipulation we are only allowed to use 3 books for the character for the entire campaign, which are used for race, class, prestige class and spells.

Items will be coming from any book so does not apply to the 3 book rule.

I would like to make the best wizard possible. I have been thinking about using Player's Handbook, Complete Mage and Spell Compendium.

A Human Focused Conjurer which will eventually use Master Specialist and maybe cap it with Abjurant Champion.

If anyone can come up with a better wizard progression from 1-20 only using 3 books I would love to see what is possible.


Spell compendium, unlimited arcana, and heroes of battle.

Spell compendium for the spells, Unlimited arcana for the spell point wizard, and heroes of battle for the war weaver.

The spell point system is a fantastic replacement to traditional vancian casting and is much better. Instead of normal wizard casting, you prepare your spells, and can cast any spell prepared by fueling it with the requisite spell points.
War weaver would save you points by casting into weaves.

[ryu]

A wizard WILL get hit by something in his career. If he can get a full BAB and a D10 with no loss to CL, why not use it? An Abjurant Champion doesn't NEED to be played as a Gish. I used that with my Battle Sorcerer and played caster and it worked wonderfully.

What are you talking about? No they won't. We have crafted contingent celerities, timestops, and an entire pile of the best divinations, and defensive tools in the entire game.

[Urpriest]

Yes. Player's Handbook counts as one of the three. I know. I know.

What about the DMG? If you run into, say, a Headband of Intellect and the DMG isn't one of your books, would you be unable to use it?

Which Monster Manuals do you have access to? Do you need access to Monster Manuals in order to summon things? If a Monster Manual isn't among your books chosen, then can you treat monsters from that book as if they don't exist? :smallbiggrin:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Abjurant Champion would end up showing up so late in the character's career that it would be too little, too late. It's not worth taking.


Pick the d20 SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/) as one of your books/sources, it contains everything you would need from the PHB, DMG, MM, UA, XPH, ELH, and Deities and Demigods (including many useful feats (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm)). Suggest the same to everyone else in your group, as a 3-book limit that doesn't automatically allow the core rulebooks is extremely arbitrary. Be sure to let the DM know that you don't expect any given NPC, encounter, or even adventure to use anything from more than three books, including the core rules. Make your character a Human, and use this Wizard variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) to get Improved Initiative instead of Scribe Scroll. Trade your Familiar for Rapid Summoning (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#conjurerVariants).

Spell Compendium is a splendid choice for your second book, but I'd say Complete Mage is just as good a choice for spell selection. PH2 also contains a good selection of spells, as well as ACFs like Immediate Magic and quite a few feats. I'd go with Complete Mage for your second book, for possible prestige classes, Focused Specialist, and of course spells. While SC has a lot more spells than CM, a lot of them aren't really worth using, a vast majority of the best spells are in the PHB/SRD already, and CM has many spells that SC just can't replace (Heart of Water/Earth).

For your third book, pick the Player's Guide to Faerun. It has both Incantatrix and Persistent Spell, plus regional feats like Mercantile Background. Get Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm) from your first source at 3rd level, designate a Ring of Protection +1 as the item and always wear a glove/gauntlet over it so it cannot be targeted directly or slight of handed. Invest every skill point you get from then on into it for the greatest return toward Spellcraft, so you can take ten on the check to use Cooperative Metamagic and Metamagic Effect and always succeed in persisting even your highest level spells. You can use Cooperative Metamagic on your own spells outside of combat as the action economy system only exists during initiative.

Pick one or two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) at 1st level for more feats, Murky-Eyed and Weak-Willed would be best, for two extra feats starting out. Start with Iron Will for Incantatrix, Mercantile Background, Improved Initiative instead of Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus: Conjuration, and Extend Spell. Get Item Familiar at 3rd, and go Wizard 3/ Master Specialist 2/ Incantatrix 10/ Master Specialist 5. For your bonus metamagic feats from Incantatrix get Persistent Spell first, and Quicken Spell with one of the last two. I'd get Cloudy Conjuration at 6th, Summon Elemental at 9th, and whatever else you think would be useful.

Remember that if you find a friendly wizard or especially a wizards' organization, you can pay 50 gp per spell level instead of buying scrolls (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#addingSpellstoaWizardsSpellbook) to obtain additional spells. Still buy scrolls for 1st level spells, but for 2nd level and higher spells 50 gp per spell level is considerably cheaper. Refer to the best Wizard Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=394) for anything I didn't cover.

[D4rkh0rus]

If you're using 3 books + core (PhB, PhB2, DMG)

I would suggest Spell Compendium, Complete Arcane and Races of Destiny.
If not, Spell Compendium, Complete Arcane and SRD


Beguiler 1/Wizard 3/Master Specialist 1/Ultimate Magus 10/Archmage 5

Illumian with krau sigil from RoD + Practiced spellcaster feat on beguiler, makes UM progress wizard 10/10.

So you would end up with a wizard 19/Beguiler 8 with a bit more caster lvl than usual.

If you cant use Illumian, you will end up wizard 18/Beguiler 9 Not horribly bad. Its just, until you're lvl 18, you'll feel it.

Unless everyones making CoDzillas, crazy chargers, pun puns and the like. Optimizing a Wizard is like stabbing your group in the back...

You're gonna end up making the DM put the party through horrible things and forcing you to waste your prepared teleports, gates, etc. just so that you can't use them when they can break the game.
And thats if he doesn't Cast Rocks Fall, Wizard dies.

[scsimodem]

I'd just as soon not plan out the whole thing from first level to 20th whenever you start playing. I played a wizard from 1-18 once, and what I thought would be useful at high level and what I actually used at high level ended up being very different. Just make character concept and make a level 1 wizard that fits that concept. Select starting spells based on flexibility instead of damage (burning hands and magic missile are far less useful at 1st level than sleep and color spray). As your wizard levels, you'll discover not what is the most mechanically advantageous stuff, but rather what you enjoy doing and your wizard's growing personality. Once you have a handle on that, just a pick a PrC that fits your play style, which is far more important than 'the strongest build.' When I played that wizard, by the time I started thinking PrC, I actually picked Loremaster, a solid class, but still very different from the original concept of this wizard.

I'd also discourage taking a specialty unless you've played a spellcaster before and you're sure you know which schools you can do without.

[Captnq]

Three books, eh? Do they have to be WotC or can you go with third party?

[metalith]

The SRD would not be allowed. He is very anti-online content. If I could use the SRD then I would not have a problem. Since I could do a Wizard, Master Specialist and then Archmage for my character. The 3 book rule is set that PH, PH2 and DMG would count as 3 books. If the rule was 2 books + core or even 3 books + core there would not be a problem either.

The books have to be 3.0 or 3.5 books WotC material no third party.

I am looking to be big on battlefield control and manipulation with some buffing and some very light blasting. I'm primarily planning on if I keep these 3 books, take a reserve feat that allows me to blast without using spells, ie Acidic Splatter or Fiery Burst.

Monsters summoned by Summon Nature'a Ally and Summon Monster are not counting to the 3 books rule. But given that I have only 3 books for the entire life of the character, you have to plan ahead, and try and foresee enough flexibility into the character. Since once the books are set, they won't be changed.

Already attempted to have the DM not count the Player's Handbook as a part of the 3 since its essentially required component of character building but said no.

He has a flaw generator we have to use, if we want to use flaws. It randomly selects flaws for us. I will be feeble and have poor reflexes.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

In that case, I'd recommend making a battlefield control Druid instead. Pick PHB, Spell Compendium, and Lost Empires of Faerun. Get Greenbound Summoning, Spell Focus: Conjuration, Augment Summoning, Natural Spell, and whatever else you want. Make him human and don't use flaws.

Between Wall of Smoke, (Lesser Rod of Extended) Creeping Cold, Kelpstrand, and your summons using Wall of Thorns immediately then either attacking or spamming Entangle, you should have plenty of battlefield control. Get a war-trained riding dog, or if level 4+ a Fleshraker dinosaur or a Dire Eagle at 'level -3' for your animal companion. Use Handle Animal to add the Warbeast template to whatever you get. Once you get wild shape you can take the form of a Fleshraker dinosaur yourself, or turn into any number of bigger/scarier things later on.

This should sufficiently illustrate to your DM that a limitation on books does absolutely nothing to curb optimization, as it only stifles a good mechanical representation of a character concept and creativity in general.

[Kelb_Panthera]

On the three book limit, meh. You can break the game over your knee as a wizard with the PHB alone. Everything else is just gravy. That said, spell compendium is a pretty obvious second choice but not necessarily an automatic one. Broadening your options by that much doesn't mean a whole lot unless you actually intend to make -very- broad use of it.

With PHB having to take one of your options (kind of a stupid thing for your DM to do) I'd pick Complete Mage for sure but the third is kinda up in the air. Given that you want to go for BFC I'd probably pick Player's guide to Faerun for incantatrix. The ability to put buffs up all day via persist and to widen or sculpt on-going AoE's on the fly are very conducive to that play style.

[Gamereaper]

What are you talking about? No they won't. We have crafted contingent celerities, timestops, and an entire pile of the best divinations, and defensive tools in the entire game.

So you're telling me you have NEVER been hit before or had a magic duel?

I had to go toe to toe with a lich on my own. I had to end up using Disintegrate, so it kinda doesn't count.

[Gamereaper]

Abjurant Champion would end up showing up so late in the character's career that it would be too little, too late. It's not worth taking.


7th level is too late?

[ryu]

So you're telling me you have NEVER been hit before or had a magic duel?

I had to go toe to toe with a lich on my own. I had to end up using Disintegrate, so it kinda doesn't count.

I have never lost due to HP damage no. I've lost to being forcibly BFCed, disjuncted, and then fed to rabid badgers while bound to a wall in adamantium chains, but I think we can all agree D10 hit dice wouldn't have mattered there. Rule one of high power wizardry: Anyone badass enough to actually do damage to you despite your hundreds of thousands of backup plans and precautions does not care how much HP you have. At high levels? The game wouldn't change if I had some crazy D1 hit dice that I'm pretty sure don't even exist in or out of game.

[Kelb_Panthera]

What are you talking about? No they won't. We have crafted contingent celerities, timestops, and an entire pile of the best divinations, and defensive tools in the entire game.

This is a bit hyperbolic.

However, miss chance is a thing and it can easily and completely overwhelm AC as a defensive factor.

Simply combining invisibility with blink and focusing on non-attack options grants a level 5 wizard a total 60% miss chance before AC. Even if his AC is in the toilet that comes to a bare minimum of a 62% chance that -any- attack will miss.

If we give that same wizard a more reasonable AC for his level, say 16, vs the typical +10ish attack bonus of CR 5 creatures that's 70% chance the attack will miss, the equivalent of AC 25, and that's -if- the enemy can even find him to take a swing in the first place, something that requires special senses or a -serious- spot and/or listen modifier.

AC is useful but it's not always a good investment. Greater blink renders it entirely moot unless the enemy has a weapon that can deal force damage or catches him by surprise.

[6thEdition]

Take the PHB, DMG and MM. Now, after building the greatest core wizard (Tip: Grey Elf is the best Core race), snatch the MM from the DM and read the monster stats. State two reasons:

1) Your high INT score.
2) That was one of your books, so you should be able to read it, right?:smalltongue::smallsmile::smallsmile:

[metalith]

Thanks for the advise. I am pondering swapping Complete Mage for Player's Guide of Faerun. The only thing is if I went Incantrix, no item familiar for Persistent Spell

For Complete Mage here is what I have.

Human Wizard (Focused Specialist Conjuration) Forbidden Evocation, Enchantment, Necromancy

Str 9
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 18
Wis 10
Cha 12

Trait Nearsighted
Flaws Feeble, Poor Reflexes

Feats: Spell Focus (Conjuration), Cloudy Conjuration, Metamagic School Focus (Conjuration), Extend Spell

With spells like Grease, Color Spray and Wall of Smoke for my first level spells

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

7th level is too late?

Abjurant Champion requires +5 BAB, so on a Wizard 3/ Master Specialist, he wouldn't be able to start taking it until after level 11. A +1 to your Shield spell at level 12, going up to +5 by level 16, is definitely too little, too late.

[(Un)Inspired]

So you're telling me you have NEVER been hit before or had a magic duel?

I had to go toe to toe with a lich on my own. I had to end up using Disintegrate, so it kinda doesn't count.

A lich let you hit it with disintegrate?

[Craft (Cheese)]

You should know that you don't actually need Spell Focus (Conjuration) for anything: You can qualify for Metamagic School Focus and Cloudy Conjuration by just being a 1st-level Conjurer, which you are. Unless you're looking to meet a prerequisite at level 3, I'd replace it with something more immediately useful (like Improved Initiative to make sure you always go first).

Also, take Nerveskitter and prepare it every day. It's even more useful as you get up in levels (and you aren't relying on your first-level slots for offense) but even at level 1 it will Save Your Life.

[metalith]

Thanks for the suggestion. I will swap it out. I will need Spell Focus before I take Master Specialist but I can wait until level 3.

[Juntao112]

I am creating a new character for a new campaign. The campaign is going to run from 1-20.

I need to fill the arcane slot of the group.

There is one big stipulation we are only allowed to use 3 books for the character for the entire campaign, which are used for race, class, prestige class and spells.

Items will be coming from any book so does not apply to the 3 book rule.

I would like to make the best wizard possible. I have been thinking about using Player's Handbook, Complete Mage and Spell Compendium.

A Human Focused Conjurer which will eventually use Master Specialist and maybe cap it with Abjurant Champion.

If anyone can come up with a better wizard progression from 1-20 only using 3 books I would love to see what is possible.

PHB. DMG. MM. Fox only. Final Destination. (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=223769)