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3WhiteFox3
2014-01-05, 11:53 PM
This is a discussion thread for those who wish to create homebrew inspired by Xefas' Mythos classes because it was starting to derail the Mythic Reth Dekala thread. The idea seems to be popular enough to warrant it's own thread for people to put their concepts and information about their own homebrew projects.


Mythos Classes:

The Mythos classes are homebrew classes created by Xefas that use Mythos, abilities that describe the stories that the classes tell and are told about them. The classes are about around Tier 2 in terms of power and are intended to represent truly mythical characters who are far more powerful than the mundane citizens of the story that takes place around them. They are intended to be extremely high powered and fit in with the other Tier 1-2 classes for a high power game.

The links for them can be found below accompanied with a brief synopsis.

The Olethrofex (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16517470) - A class based around death, necromancy, oblivion and undeath. A class obsessed about every form that death takes and bringing destruction to everything.
The Teramach (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286983) A rage-filled beast that is angry at everything in the universe. It's rage allows it to perform impossible feats of great power.
The Kathodos (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15947087) A class that is linked inextricably to the natural world and the elements that make up the world. For them the world is their plaything to be shaped as necessary.

Useful Resources:


Template for making custom Mythos banners courtesy of Greaserfish (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16732984&postcount=51)
(click the spoiler marked Aethenos Roster, there will be another spoiler that contains the downloadable template).

Useful Quotes for Mythos Design:



Xefas, how do you usually come up with the names for your mythos classes?

I find Greek words that sound cool and are vaguely related to the class.

Let me put it this way. Everyone's work tends to be derivative of what they like. I would assume even more so if they're doing it for fun, rather than within constraints in a work environment. People do things involving stuff they enjoy! I really like Exalted, which happens to be a game about awesome dudes that hit things with fists and fire and metal objects. D&D is a game about awesome dudes that hit things with fists and fire and metal objects, so when I make stuff for it, there's always going to be some Exalted inspiration.

I mean, Gary Gygax was reading Dying Earth and Lord of the Rings, and oh, hey, when he wrote a fantasy wargame, it had furry-footed hobbits and wizards that prepare compartmentalized spells from books full of diagrams and gibberish. It happens.

But, as I've continued making homebrew, I've tried to shy away from just drawing from the one source, and be more original. When I wrote the Infernal Monster Discipline ~3 years ago, it was a more-or-less straight translation of Exalted. The Teramach, in turn, draws on a lot of the same ideas, but aside from a few stolen names (which I've considered changing), it's only as inspired by Exalted as it is by the Hulk or Dragonball Z or Borderlands. Then, stuff like the Mythic Vashar and Mythic Kobold have almost no Exalted inspiration whatsoever.

This particular homebrew, the Mythic Reth Dekala, is intentionally a direct reference to fixtures in Exalted (but, to be fair, it's still decently tainted with Saiyans and Tamaraneans). But the next thing I make will probably have nothing to do with it (I'm thinking Mythic Lycanthropes).

So, in conclusion, do whatever. I'd say the only flavor guidelines I have for Mythos classes are that:

1) Mythic characters are great people. Whatever talent they have can be used to change the world. They aren't soldiers that level up and become slightly better soldiers. They're sword-saints that level up and become forces of destruction. They aren't thieves that aspire to run a criminal guild, they're bandit queens and kingslayers that will one day see the world dance on their puppet-strings.

2) They use the Planescape/Great Wheel cosmology. Because I can't be arsed to learn what esoteric strata Eberron and Dragonlance revolve on. :smalltongue:

3) They use a lot of flowery proper nouns. Just, everywhere. Have I ever said how proud I am of the name "Psychotic Sapience-Brutalizing Devolution"? Gods forbid I ever have children.

3WhiteFox3
2014-01-06, 12:04 AM
My own idea for a Mythos class is something called the Psychopomp. It is based around the idea of being a personification of or someone obsessed with death as an ideal. Instead of the Olethrofex which seems more about it's own existence as an abomination, the Psychopomp is about death as an important and eternal law, about leading others into the afterlife, about the philosophies surrounding death. I'm thinking about putting a bit of Straw Nihilism (life is nothing and we all die so lets spread misery and despair), Anti-Nihilism (life is nothing and we all die, but let's be altruistic despite that), Social Darwinism and the idea of life and death being a continuous cycle.

I don't have a banner put together yet. I do have what I'm drawing inspiration from and I've even written some of the classes fluff. I wanted to get some what other people think about it and if the idea is separate enough from the Olethrofex to be workable.

GreaserFish
2014-01-06, 12:09 AM
Your idea for the Psychopomp sounds cool, though there is one thing I might address.

I'm thinking about putting a bit of Straw Nihilism (life is nothing and we all die so lets spread misery and despair), Anti-Nihilism (life is nothing and we all die, but let's be altruistic despite that), Social Darwinism and the idea of life and death being a continuous cycle.
I think that the idea of life and death being a cycle fits best with the concept, and that the whole Nihilism spectrum doesn't really fit the shtick of classic psychopomps. Most examples in mythology weren't good or bad, it was just a job to them.


I actually consider it cheating to ever include Batman in the banner. Batman is such an intensely human character (and has had an absurd number of influences and writers with only tangentially-related artistic visions) that it's quicker to count the classes that he couldn't be.

Given this quote from VoodooPaladin, I was wondering if anyone would mind helping me find another character to fit my roster for the Aethenos and to replace Batman. I'd prefer someone more antagonistic than the majority of heroes currently taking it up. I'm basically looking for a character whose conviction toward a specific goal is their main driving force in life.

vasharanpaladin
2014-01-06, 12:10 AM
Psychopomp was my first idea, broken by the Olethrofex's debut. If only because I was leaning harder on Abyssals when I was brainstorming...

Anyway, if you go through with it, be sure to reference your Touhous! Youmu and Komachi would fit your themes. :smalltongue:

On to my own projects, core idea for my Luminarch was "right makes might, and I'm righteous." Most of the [Exalted] feats could pretty much be Exceptional Mythos, I'm scanning BoED for the first time to set an idea. Expect to see the word "translumination" at least once when I've finished. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT:


Given this quote from VoodooPaladin, I was wondering if anyone would mind helping me find another character to fit my roster for the Aethenos and to replace Batman. I'd prefer someone more antagonistic than the majority of heroes currently taking it up. I'm basically looking for a character whose conviction toward a specific goal is their main driving force in life.

Pick a Green Lantern. The Green light is ALL ABOUT conviction. :smallamused:

GreaserFish
2014-01-06, 12:16 AM
Pick a Green Lantern. The Green light is ALL ABOUT conviction. :smallamused:

Aha, thanks, I thought I was missing something obvious.

3WhiteFox3
2014-01-06, 12:32 AM
Your idea for the Psychopomp sounds cool, though there is one thing I might address.

I think that the idea of life and death being a cycle fits best with the concept, and that the whole Nihilism spectrum doesn't really fit the shtick of classic psychopomps. Most examples in mythology weren't good or bad, it was just a job to them.

The idea was to expand the idea of the Psychopomp into a more general death-based class. That said, just sticking with the classic idea is not a bad option and would help it stand out from the Olethrofex. The Psychopomp name was also a WIP, I like the name but it does have certain assumptions built into it (which you pointed out). The other issue is whether or not the idea of the Psychopomp really fits with the feel of a Mythos class. As you said most Psychopomps just do their jobs and don't really actually go out and do the sorts of things a Mythos class would do. On the other hand, if I link the class to the life-death cycle and create appropriate Mythos around that, the class might be workable.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback, it gives me something to think about.


Psychopomp was my first idea, broken by the Olethrofex's debut. If only because I was leaning harder on Abyssals when I was brainstorming...

Anyway, if you go through with it, be sure to reference your Touhous! Youmu and Komachi would fit your themes. :smalltongue:

Yeah, I'm still not sure about it. However, I'm really thinking that there is still some space for a Psychopomp as someone who ushers in the dead. I'll admit to not knowing too much about Touhou, the sheer amount of content for the series made it hard for me to get into it. I will look up the characters you mentioned and see if I can't work something out.

I've got my own inspirations, but I'm still trying to sort things out on my end. One of them fits but only if you take the ending into account and the ending is a big spoiler for a certain anime. So I don't know if I want to explicitly use it as inspiration in case I end up spoiling the anime in question for someone. I'm kind of paranoid about spoilers.

GreaserFish
2014-01-06, 12:35 AM
On the other hand, if I link the class to the life-death cycle and create appropriate Mythos around that, the class might be workable.

Ooh, there's an idea. Some kind of divine-esque mythos class that revolves around life and death, perhaps utilizing both positive and negative energy? Draining enemy health and adding it to their own or their allies is a possibility, along with being able to create undead/deathless and reviving fallen comrades. Perhaps their shtick could be to protect the natural order of things and investigating any disturbances in the cycle of reincarnation/the circle of life/however new life comes into being.

Xefas
2014-01-06, 12:43 AM
Continuing from the Mythic Reth Dekala thread-




Bound-Ghast Unleashing
Prerequisite: -

The weakest wardens of the ancient times are, ironically, the most well-known; too frail to gather much soulstuff, they hid in the space between planes, biding their time and offering their services to anyone desperate enough to summon them. A Seneschal is no mere mortal, however, and knows ways on how to bind them to his service.

You gain Bind Vestige, Improved Bind Vestige, and Expel Vestige as bonus feats (ToM).

Advanced
Will-Bending Demands: You gain Ignore Special Requirements and Skilled Pact Making as bonus feats (ToM).




Entreating On The Altar of Naught
Prerequisite: -

Those nothings and no ones that languish between bleak emptiness and the shade of death, they clamor for one hint of life or light to slake the cold lust of their vapid unexistence. So it is that when a Seneschal beckons them by name, they slaver at the echo and the blood offered without complaint, easily called and easily subjugated.

You gain the Soul Binding class feature of a Binder (ToM pg10). This is a Supernatural ability. Your effective binder level for the purposes of determining the highest level of Vestige you may bind and how many Vestiges you may have bound at once is 1 (this stacks with other sources of binding, such as the Binder class itself), and your effective binder level for all other purposes is equal to your class level (this does not stack with other sources of binding level).

Unlike a Binder, you are not required to draw a seal to summon forth a Vestige. You need only a symbolic altar, typically a smooth stone of some kind, which you mark with your own blood, and then call the name of the Vestige three times (withdrawing the stone from a pouch is typically a move action, and if you are already bleeding, coating the stone in your blood may be done as part of the same action, otherwise drawing blood from yourself is another move action). At your command, the Vestige's image appears and, unlike with a Binder's ritual, is aware of its surroundings and capable of observing and speaking with other creatures than yourself.

Bargaining and binding proceed as normal afterward.

Advanced
Selenite Bishop Presumption: You gain Improved Binding as a bonus feat. When you attempt a rushed binding check on a Vestige lower level than the maximum level of Vestige you may bind, you do not take the -10 penalty on your binding check, demanding its obedience rather than requesting it.

Discarding Broken Phantoms: You gain Expel Vestige as a bonus feat. When you use your Expel Vestige feat, you need not draw a seal and perform the summoning processes to expel the spirit inside you. Instead, you may use a full-round action to disgorge them as a roiling crystalline nimbus from your eyes and mouth, which gradually fades into nothing in the following moments.


How, I ask. HOW. That's good, really good. And more importantly, it's a lot more fun and flavorful. How does one go about with Mythos-making?

I will probably end up writing a guide for this at some point, considering the number of PMs I've gotten to this effect. Or, not really a guide, so much as a summary of how I, personally, write my classes. I don't claim to know things.

I'll try to be brief, though by necessity incomplete, with this summation.

Know what you want. Then mechanics.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you came at it backwards. Soul binding mechanics exist, therefore you want soul binding. Instead, I would suggest imagining the character exactly as you want them to be, then find mechanics similar to that, then tweak. If there are no mechanics similar to that, write them.

edit: Also, I have to be up in a few hours for work, so I'm going to bed. :smallwink:

3WhiteFox3
2014-01-06, 01:11 AM
Ooh, there's an idea. Some kind of divine-esque mythos class that revolves around life and death, perhaps utilizing both positive and negative energy? Draining enemy health and adding it to their own or their allies is a possibility, along with being able to create undead/deathless and reviving fallen comrades. Perhaps their shtick could be to protect the natural order of things and investigating any disturbances in the cycle of reincarnation/the circle of life/however new life comes into being.

I think that this idea is definitely something that might be worthwhile for the class. I want to stay away from creating undead as that seems to be thr Olethrofex's schtick. Perhaps creating temporary allies by requesting/forcing the spirits of the dead to aid the Psychopomp might not be a bad idea though, I could even make them Deathless to better separate the two classes.

I definitely like the idea of it being a quasi-divine class focusing on life and death (that eventually becomes totally entertwined with the life-death cycle) and something that's like the Kathodos as a protector of the natural order, neither specifically good or evil and using the energy commonly associated with both. Most Psychopomps might see themselves as above more trivial matters; completely focused on the preservation of the natural order. One thing dies, it's soul moves to it's destination on the great wheel as a petitioner, and another thing is born to take it's place in reality.

The core belief would be that from each beginning must come from something's end. Maybe not specifically based off of reincarnation, but meshing that basic idea with the idea of the circle of life. Basically everything in life is a journey, and it is the Psychopomp's job to make sure that the journey isn't disrupted. And seeing how many things in D&D like to mess with that journey, they have a constant job.

It also lets me put Mufasa as one of the characters for the banner which is awesome.

Edit: I'm tired, and I should also get to bed. I'll try to think about this more tomorrow though.

GreaserFish
2014-01-06, 01:13 AM
Seeing as it will probably be some time before I make any significant progress on the Aethenos, I present to you a template to make a more powerful Mythos user.

Mythborn
Some people, when they are born, are normal. They have normal childhoods, live normal lives, and die normal deaths. Others stand out. They are inherently exceptional, and every facet of their lives is filled to the brim with a foreshadowing of greatness. They could learn to fence like a master by the age of ten, they could become a king of kings within their own lifetime, or they could even bring about the ugly head of the apocalypse and doom themselves and all of their kin.

Awe inspiring and terrible to behold are people such as these, once their story manifests; But regardless of whatever magnificent destiny lies ahead of them, one thing is obvious. These people are not normal.

Creating a Mythborn Creature
"Mythborn" is an inherited template that can be added to any creature capable of taking class levels.
Size and Type: Same as base creature.
Hit Dice: All hit dice are changed to at least a d8. Otherwise, same as base creature.
Base Attack Bonus: Mythborn creatures gain a +2 morale bonus to all attack rolls for 3d4 hours after every eight hour rest, or other such rest as fits for their race.
Special Qualities: A Mythborn character starts with free Mythos to spend, regardless of starting class. A Mythborn character who takes their first level in a Mythos class gains one free Mythos. A Mythborn character who does not take a Mythos class at first level can select a single Mythos class to gain access to the Exceptional Mythos of that class, and gains one Mythos to spend accordingly. If they later take a level in a mythos class, they may not reallocate those Mythos or change their selected Mythos class.
Challenge Rating:
Alignment: Same as base creature.
Advancement: Same as base creature.

I'm not entirely happy with it because it sounds a bit awkwardly worded to me, but it's a start.

EDIT: Glad I could help you out with the theme of your class. I might even be able to do a bit of digging and find a nice greek word for you to use.

Adam1949
2014-01-06, 01:27 AM
Continuing from the Mythic Reth Dekala thread-

Know what you want. Then mechanics.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you came at it backwards. Soul binding mechanics exist, therefore you want soul binding. Instead, I would suggest imagining the character exactly as you want them to be, then find mechanics similar to that, then tweak. If there are no mechanics similar to that, write them.


You'd be right in that assumption; I liked the idea of the ability, but wanted to make sure I had the mechanics down first. Although it will be more effort to do fluff-then-mechanics, I agree in thinking that it will work out better overall for it.

Meanwhile, the next bit of the Seneschal: Bringing out the inner being from within (otherwise known as "BABYBABYBABYBABY: The Mythos")

Awaken the Animus from Within

Prerequisite: -

The beast that lives within every living being is something of a mystery to most sages. Invisible most of the time, it usually takes the training or practice of an arcanist in order to pull a modicum of its power out and imbue it into an animal, or perhaps a willing being of some other kind. Each person's inner self is something that they generally keep to hidden, but for one such as the Seneschal, such trivalities are meaningless; after all, with the potential for dozens, possibly hundreds of mentalities to hide within them, the ability to showcase one's very soul is surprisingly soothing.

You gain the Obtain Familiar and Bonded Familiar feats, with your effective arcane caster level being equal to your character level. Unlike normal familiars, your familiar is always of the Outsider type with the Native subtype, regardless of its usual type and current appearance. In addition, you may dismiss and re-summon your familiar as a swift action each, causing it to disappear and reappear at your command as long as it is within 20 feet of you per level. Whenever you would re-summon your familiar, you may choose to have it manifest as a different familiar that an arcane caster of your character level could have.

Basic
Evoker of Material Wealth: You instead gain Item Familiar (UA) as a bonus feat. The item chosen immediately gains sapience (as the 7th level ability), with the mental scores and Ego that brings.
Shadow of the True Self: You gain the Shadowform Familiar feat (CoR). Unlike the normal feat, a shadowform familiar that goes beyond 30 feet of you is dismissed instead of slain, although you gain a negative level for 24 hours if the familiar was commanded to leave your side by your choosing.
I am Thou: Your familiar can, at your choosing and of its own volition, appear as though it were a doppelgänger of you, as though it were affected by the Polymorph spell. Unlike the spell, the familiar keeps its Outsider (Native) typing. This doppelgänger-familiar is identical to you in almost every way (including class levels, feats, current hit points, skill ranks, and so forth), except that it does not have this Mythos, retains it's own mental ability scores and personality, and always has some flaw in appearance that someone who knows you can identify as inaccurate with a Spot check (DC 10 + 1/2 class level + your Charisma modifiers). Common ones include (but are by no means limited to) yellow eyes, pointed (or rounded) ears, small wisps of eldritch energy spiraling at its feet, a vestigial tail, or some other aspect.

Advanced:
Aria of the Inner Soul: You gain the Improved Familiar and Planar Familiar feats.
Illusion-Form Litany: You gain a second Basic manifestation of this Mythos.

Primal Fury
2014-01-06, 01:57 AM
Ha HA! It's finally done. My picture is finally done! I present to you the iconic characters of the Hægtesse, a practitioner of the dark arts, and ambassador to the spirit world.


http://s2.postimg.org/56pmlnek9/H_gtesse_Iconic_Characters.png

Tacitus
2014-01-06, 08:34 AM
Part of me wants to work on a Mythos class because I find the entire concept to be utterly awesome in many ways, but I have never been particularly good at crafting my own brew. That being said I've had an idea for a person who will not let go, and indeed likely cannot let go. They are driven by fear of not their own mortality but that of everyone they meet, and should they actually form a bond of friendship they could indeed become paralyzed by that fear should the person die. Their response is to make sure no one dies, and thus we have a Mythos Healer... maybe with a touch of dread polite necromancer.

However, this seems to be stepping on toes of other ideas in the thread thus far, so I might be even less motivated to try my hand at a standalone class, unfortunately. Though, where the cycle of life has been mentioned and whatnot, this would be a subversion of it, and perhaps even a contrast to the existing (god I can never spell it... ugh, findfindfind,paste) Olethrofex and what else has been discussed. I dunno, probably better fit as a Mythos line (or 2) inside another class unless people really think otherwise.

Morph Bark
2014-01-06, 08:38 AM
Aww, and here I thought this would be about the Cthulhu Mythos. Haven't found a good collection of that yet.

vasharanpaladin
2014-01-06, 12:32 PM
Ha HA! It's finally done. My picture is finally done! I present to you the iconic characters of the Hægtesse, a practitioner of the dark arts, and ambassador to the spirit world.


http://s2.postimg.org/56pmlnek9/H_gtesse_Iconic_Characters.png

...Unspoken rule is, apparently, that every third Mythos banner must include a character from Avatar. :smalltongue:

Primal Fury
2014-01-06, 01:15 PM
However, this seems to be stepping on toes of other ideas in the thread thus far, so I might be even less motivated to try my hand at a standalone class, unfortunately.
I say do it up, man. There's nothin' wrong with a little toe squishin', so long as you aren't outright copying someone. I don't know if anyone else is even doing something close to what you are; the Hægtesse is a Mythos Witch, and while there might be a little bit of healing and a lot of necromancy, there's nothing "polite" about it.

It's all about the fluff. :smallwink:

General Patton
2014-01-06, 02:02 PM
That being said I've had an idea for a person who will not let go, and indeed likely cannot let go. They are driven by fear of not their own mortality but that of everyone they meet, and should they actually form a bond of friendship they could indeed become paralyzed by that fear should the person die. Their response is to make sure no one dies, and thus we have a Mythos Healer... maybe with a touch of dread polite necromancer.

Sounds like the mentality of some transhumanists. Here is a bit of reading that might help inspire you.
http://yudkowsky.net/other/yehuda/

3WhiteFox3
2014-01-06, 02:32 PM
Part of me wants to work on a Mythos class because I find the entire concept to be utterly awesome in many ways, but I have never been particularly good at crafting my own brew. That being said I've had an idea for a person who will not let go, and indeed likely cannot let go. They are driven by fear of not their own mortality but that of everyone they meet, and should they actually form a bond of friendship they could indeed become paralyzed by that fear should the person die. Their response is to make sure no one dies, and thus we have a Mythos Healer... maybe with a touch of dread polite necromancer.

However, this seems to be stepping on toes of other ideas in the thread thus far, so I might be even less motivated to try my hand at a standalone class, unfortunately. Though, where the cycle of life has been mentioned and whatnot, this would be a subversion of it, and perhaps even a contrast to the existing (god I can never spell it... ugh, findfindfind,paste) Olethrofex and what else has been discussed. I dunno, probably better fit as a Mythos line (or 2) inside another class unless people really think otherwise.

I agree with Primal Fury, do it. I don't feel that this is stepping on my class at all. My own class the Kyzotos (I'm trying the name out) could be considered to be stepping on the Olethrofex as well. The Kyzotos is more about cycles, with the biggest and most important one being the cycle of life, death and rebirth. Everything about the class is about that cycle (or the cycles that it spawns) in some manner. While healing is a part of it, as is death, neither really fits the idea of a Mythos Healer that well.


...Unspoken rule is, apparently, that every third Mythos banner must include a character from Avatar. :smalltongue:

I am going to probably be using character(s) from Avatar, but I think that it'll be at least somewhat unique.

I plan on using the Sun and Moon spirits as fish

Primal Fury
2014-01-06, 04:06 PM
Hey guys; I need a bit more inspiration. Does anyone know any good pieces of media about dark magic, witches or furies? There's the old tales about Baba Yaga and other fairy tales involving witches as villains, but what about more modern or obscure ones?

3WhiteFox3
2014-01-06, 05:02 PM
Hey guys; I need a bit more inspiration. Does anyone know any good pieces of media about dark magic, witches or furies? There's the old tales about Baba Yaga and other fairy tales involving witches as villains, but what about more modern or obscure ones?

There's Harry Potter for Witches and Warlocks as protagonists. Puella Magi Madoka Magica is a modern Magical Girl anime (kind of) that has Witches as opponents. Soul Eater is an anime/manga based around characters who hunt witches.


Also, here is also my first Exceptional Mythos for the Kyzotos

Life From Death Transference Attack:
Prerequisites: None

The Kyzotos knows that there is no true separation between positive and negative energy and that those beliefs stating that one is good because it heals whilst the other is evil because it harms to be oversimplifications of the grand cycle. The Kyzotos instead uses negative energy to force the positive energy out of a creature (for only one kind of energy can be in any one creature at a time) using it to heal another.

Make a Ranged Touch Attack as a standard action with a range of 120 ft. dealing xd6 damage (where x is half your class levels rounded up) on a successful hit from the ensuing negative energy. Heal another creature in range (including yourself) by that amount thanks to the positive energy that is now flowing.

This Mythos if used on a non living creature (except undead) then they take the damage from the negative energy. However no healing can be produced in this manner. Against undead the attack fizzles.

Advanced:

Ailment Transferral Wave: Instead of making a Ranged Touch Attack, you may choose to target one creature affected by a disease or poison and another creature that does not suffer from that ailment (and is not immune to said ailment). The former target is cured of the disease or poison and heals the amount of damage that the Ranged Touch Attack would have dealt. The latter target gains the disease or poison and takes damage equal to the amount the former target took. Both targets may make Will Saves to negate the effects. If either target makes the save the entire effect is negated.

Undeath Rebuke and Reattribution: Make a Ranged Touch Attack against an undead target within120 ft. of you. A successfully hit target is affected as if it were the victim of a Rebuke Undead attempt by an evil cleric.

Your cleric level for this effect is equal to your level + 3, make a turning check and add your Wisdom modifier to the result. If you fail; nothing happens, if you succeed; The creature is considered rebuked and if you succeed and have twice as many effective cleric levels as the undead has hit dice it is controlled. (See the Turn or Rebuke Undead special attack listing.)


Tell me what you guys think.

Xefas
2014-01-06, 05:03 PM
...Unspoken rule is, apparently, that every third Mythos banner must include a character from Avatar. :smalltongue:

There's a reason for that. Avatar is just a -... oh crap damnit, Mythic Dvati must happen (http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Desna_and_Eska).


Hey guys; I need a bit more inspiration. Does anyone know any good pieces of media about dark magic, witches or furies? There's the old tales about Baba Yaga and other fairy tales involving witches as villains, but what about more modern or obscure ones?

How much do you know about Molly Carpenter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Dresden_Files_characters#Molly_Carpent er)? She was sentenced to death for using dark magic to cure people of crippling drug addiction. That alone puts her character up my alley.

VoodooPaladin
2014-01-06, 05:04 PM
Given this quote from VoodooPaladin, I was wondering if anyone would mind helping me find another character to fit my roster for the Aethenos and to replace Batman. I'd prefer someone more antagonistic than the majority of heroes currently taking it up. I'm basically looking for a character whose conviction toward a specific goal is their main driving force in life.

As stated above, Green Lanterns are literally powered by conviction and willpower. But if you want a more antagonistic force...

https://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/tg/image/1337/03/1337038452722.jpg
The Inquisition (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Inquisitor) sounds closer to what you're looking for.

Other fine options include the Boros (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=89068) Legion (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=88946) and all (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=214352) of (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=214349) these (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=214382) guys (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=214378) here (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=218002).

Adam1949
2014-01-06, 05:04 PM
Hey guys; I need a bit more inspiration. Does anyone know any good pieces of media about dark magic, witches or furies? There's the old tales about Baba Yaga and other fairy tales involving witches as villains, but what about more modern or obscure ones?

Well, depending on your definition of "Dark Magic" and "Witch", there's always Umineko no Naku Koro Ni; It's a Sound Novel (like a visual novel, but with more emphasis on the music and sound effects, mostly so that you can ignore the usually-bad art) about a murder mystery that is propagated by powerful Witches who can essentially re-write history so that it can fit their views, whereas the main character in each episode attempt to prove that the mystery could have been done with absolutely no influence by magic, even going so paradoxically far as to use magic to prove that magic wasn't used. It's where the 6th picture of the Seneschal is from, and where the following Mythos are from (their names and, eventually, their abilities).

Going from Exceptional, Fantastic, Legendary, and Exalted:
Crimson Honor Declaration
Azure Defiant Inquiry
Amethyst Subterfuge Announcement
Alchemical Perfection Demand

EDIT: Now that I think about it, would it be too wide-reaching to make the Seneschal "The Mythos Binder/Summoner/Truenamer"? I mean, traditionally magic was done via the use of a connection to a person; this is already shown by the summoning aspects of the class, but using their names and Words of Power was also a classic trope of summoning; "Come forth, great spirit Betelgeuse; Betelgeuse; Betelgeuse" and so forth. Or would that make it too thinly-spread?

Xefas
2014-01-06, 05:15 PM
Might I suggest that, for friendliness to people who stumble on this thread and don't already know what it is, that "Discussion" be appended to the end of the thread title (to note that it does not contain actual finished homebrew), and that links to one or more Mythos classes be placed in the first post, so that a curious person could find out what we're talking about more easily?

3WhiteFox3
2014-01-06, 05:36 PM
Might I suggest that, for friendliness to people who stumble on this thread and don't already know what it is, that "Discussion" be appended to the end of the thread title (to note that it does not contain actual finished homebrew), and that links to one or more Mythos classes be placed in the first post, so that a curious person could find out what we're talking about more easily?

Done, I meant to initially place discussion in the title, but forgot. I also listed the links.

Primal Fury
2014-01-06, 06:59 PM
Well, depending on your definition of "Dark Magic" and "Witch"
More specifically, I'm talking about the kind of "Dark Magic" that makes people go "Are we sure we want to do this?", wielded by ancient witches that ate children because they were impolite. Not d20 wizards with a different name; I'm talkin' the "I'm gonna bathe in the blood of 50 virgins to steal their youth" kinda witches.


Now that I think about it, would it be too wide-reaching to make the Seneschal "The Mythos Binder/Summoner/Truenamer"? I mean, traditionally magic was done via the use of a connection to a person; this is already shown by the summoning aspects of the class, but using their names and Words of Power was also a classic trope of summoning; "Come forth, great spirit Betelgeuse; Betelgeuse; Betelgeuse" and so forth. Or would that make it too thinly-spread?
Lets say you go with "Names" as a core concept. You could do just about anything with that. The problem is you want a bit more focus than that. Summoning makes perfect sense, as does controlling people in various ways, but binding... eh. You could, perhaps, mimic the power of certain beings by invoking their names, but outright binding I'm a bit sketchy on.

Xefas
2014-01-06, 08:04 PM
EDIT: Now that I think about it, would it be too wide-reaching to make the Seneschal "The Mythos Binder/Summoner/Truenamer"? I mean, traditionally magic was done via the use of a connection to a person; this is already shown by the summoning aspects of the class, but using their names and Words of Power was also a classic trope of summoning; "Come forth, great spirit Betelgeuse; Betelgeuse; Betelgeuse" and so forth. Or would that make it too thinly-spread?

Don't think of the Seneschal as "A version of X other class"*. Envision the Seneschal, and if your vision is of a person that speaks the names of forbidden things to beseech their service, then make that the class and not "A Binder/Summoner/Truenamer". Make the story, make the mechanics tell the story, and there's no way for it to be spread too thin because the class will be exactly the story you wanted to tell with it. It's only if you come at it the other way, saying "These mechanics exist, so my story should include them" that you risk overextending beyond what you want.

*Perhaps using "The Mythos X" as a shorthand was a poor decision on my part.


More specifically, I'm talking about the kind of "Dark Magic" that makes people go "Are we sure we want to do this?", wielded by ancient witches that ate children because they were impolite. Not d20 wizards with a different name; I'm talkin' the "I'm gonna bathe in the blood of 50 virgins to steal their youth" kinda witches.


Ah, that kind of dark magic. Magic that has to be chosen, magic that has to be paid for, magic that calls to those poor, unfortunate souls with nowhere else to turn? (http://youtu.be/9AaLdP8Kd_8?t=1m20s)

They weren't kidding when they called her, well, a witch.

Primal Fury
2014-01-06, 08:59 PM
How the HELL did I forget Ursula?!?! Thank you for that. I guess I shouldn't discount Disney so quickly after all.

Xefas
2014-01-06, 09:44 PM
How the HELL did I forget Ursula?!?! Thank you for that. I guess I shouldn't discount Disney so quickly after all.

I find that music is tremendously helpful for me to 'get into character', as it were. And Disney happens to have some goddamn beautiful music. When I mess around with the Hierodule, it's this, full stop. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3NoDEu7kpg) Well... maybe some of this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD2_8peLKUQ), but that first one is a must.

Olethrofex had me some of this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmD5wM7N8jY) and this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfWBTgWjzjE) and this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXpnI52cLEc).

The Cynosure is actually hilarious to write for, because it's stuff like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3Le9UnVA5g) and this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=legEvBvw2f4), which is just unreasonable. No one writes metal for inane idiot-god genocide monsters, so you have to make do.

And, if anyone ever wants to write for the Teramach, I have the audio for you. Click off the lights, stick this in your headphones, and vomit forth apocalyptica! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX2FjJm2_YA)

GreaserFish
2014-01-06, 09:56 PM
A somewhat revamped Aethenos roster and my first Mythos for it, inspired by none other than Link.

http://i.imgur.com/Y6zV60i.png

"There are those amongst our Ordo who say that I seek advancement for my own purposes, and they are correct. My purpose is to destroy the daemonic and if I must rise to command an entire sector to do so, then so be it. I am a servant of the Emperor and only those who consort with Warp-spawn need fear my ambition." ~ Inquisitor Lord Torquemada Coteaz, Warhammer 40,000
Heretic Sundering Soulblade Strike
Prerequesite: -
Sometimes fools attempt to flee from the divine justice of the Judge. Other times, they believe they can hide from the blinding light of retribution by being out of the reach of his blade. Clearly these fools must realize that nothing can escape from the Judge or his justice, regardless of distance or defense. And so it is that regardless of any gap between him and his foe, the Judge shall cut down any heretics that stand against the side of justice.

As part of a standard attack with a melee weapon, you may choose to send out a wave of energy to extend the reach of your weapon. This attack's range is extended by your weapon's reach multiplied by your current Conviction level. This attack has as many range increments as you do levels in Aethenos.

If this attack hits, it deals bonus damage equal to your current Conviction level, with a minimum of one. Otherwise, the damage is treated as if you had simply hit them with your weapon.

The wave of energy released from this attack can take whatever form best suits your Cause and Code; be it a shimmering blade of light, a malignant shadow stalking through the air, or a wave of biting insects.
There's a couple of bits in there that I don't think will be understood properly until I actually write out the details, but I think this should work for an Exceptional Mythos. Not sure about any basic/advanced versions of this mythos, but I think it will work on its own for now.

Tychris1
2014-01-06, 10:47 PM
Hmmmm....... I really like the whole Mythos system, and I've never really dipped my hand into homebrew before, but I'll be damned if I don't say I'm all too eager. My mind has been scratching feverishly trying to get a thought going for a Mythos class, mainly drawing on blanks mostly. What I'm thinking of now is a Skotanava, a kind of Mythos class in which someone takes on the traits of an outsider (Originally I'm thinking just Demons, as I have good experience with them, but I'm wondering if that would step on the Teramach's toes) and begins to grow and morph into a kind of dark semblance of it, drawing on their dark stories and becoming a mutated unholy outsider abomination barely held within the tight skin suit that was it's mortal coil. For a banner, welp I don't have a clue, but I do have an idea for an exceptional mythos.


Plane-Shattering Soul Rebirth
Prerequisites:-

The Skotanava look beyond the mundane, into the very brick and mortar that forms the universe, and burns it to the ground. The bubbling celestial cauldron calls to them, beckoning them like a siren on the crags, and they are all too willing to dash themselves against it in order to attain immortality. The Skotanova gains Darkvision out to 60 feet, Fire/Acid/Cold Resistance X (Where X is the Skotanova's Class Level), and Telepathy out to 30 ft.

Basic
Sanctity-Pillaging Obyrith Terror: The Obiryth's lurked through the annals of the Abyss first, roaring and raging in their perpetual hatred at the indignity of their situation. This loathing and disgust warped them, making their bodies as ugly as their emotions, and propelling them through bouts of pain and conflict. This brutalizing appearance has been know as their Form of Madness, and it is with it that they pressed against their bars and loosened them.

The Scotanova gains a special Form of Madness, in which any creature that first encounters a Scotanova must pass a Will Save or be panicked for as long as they can observe the Scotanova. A creature who saves against the Form of Madness is immune to it for 24 hours. Lack of sight is no protection against the Form of Madness, as it is repulsive to every sense, no matter how obscure. The Scotanova may attempt to repress this ability as a swift action once per hour, but in order to do so must pass his own Form of Madness Will Save. While his Form of Madness is revealed the Scotanova gains Fast Healing X/2 (Where X is the Scotanova's Character Level).

Puncturing Celestial Barrier Bronchia: True Scotanova rend acars into the fabric of reality, bleeding out hordes of Demons to pillage and butcher the lands, and razing everything in their path. With a flick of their wrist unspeakable horrors grip and claw at the earth, ready to pull themselves free and experience the world. Less Adept Scotanova however, must make do with abusing this scar tissue in reality, pulling and scratching at the scab until it trickles out some blood.

As a Full Round action the Scotanova may summon a Demonic Pet to serve his needs. The Demon always appears as a biped of some sort. Their appearances are always painted and twisted by the Scotanova's predisposed thoughts on Demons and his social upbringing. Perhaps Demons are thought to be shadowy creatures, monsters that lurk in the dark and snatch up the wandering fools. Or maybe they are gorier beasts of bloodshed and slaughter.


Type: Outsider
Size: Choose Small or Medium
Hit Dice: 3d8 (+1 per Two class levels)
Speed: Choose 60ft, or 30ft Fly (Average), or 30ft Speed and 20ft Climb Speed
Armor Class: +2 Natural Armor (+1 Per two class Levels)
Attack: The Demon Pet has a primary natural attack (1d8 if Medium, 1d6 if Small) that is usually a Slam, Bite, or Claw.
Stats: Elite Array, divided as seen fit, with a bonus +1 to a single stat (Still gains an extra ability point every 4 HD)
Skills: A Demon Pet gains (4+Int Bonus)x4 Skill points for its first HD, and (4+Int Bonus) for every HD afterwards. Class Skills for the Demon Pet are (Balance, Decipher Script, Disguise, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge The Planes, Knowledge Arcana, Listen, Move Silently, Spot)
Feats: A Demon Pet gains Feats as normal
Special Abilities: The Demon Pet gains the Tan'Nari Subtype

You must be able to move your hands and speak freely in order to summom your pet. It always appears next to you, or to the closest non-occupied space to you. You can dismiss your Demon Pet back into the Abyss as a swift action. The Demon Pet cannot be killed through hit point loss unless it was killed with a Good Aligned or Holy weapon. Instead it is merely banished, requiring 1d6 Days to regain its senses and drag itself through the celestial scar. If the Demon Pet is slain then the Scotanova must spend 6 hours in meditation, chanting in Abyssal, or spend 1 hour near a location where the barrier between the Material Plane and the Abyss are weakened (Major Demonic Incursion spots for instance, or merely near powerful Demonic artifacts/relics) in order to create a new Demon Pet.

Still a work in progress, but I wanted to put it down somewhere. It's meant to be the "Staple" Mythos for the rest of the class, with other Mythos' down the line branching off of them and going into more specific detail depending on whats chosen. I still need to work out the Tan'Nari Basic Manifestation, and then iron out the advanceds (Or decide if I even want Advanceds). I'm wondering if I should scrap the Obyrith and Tan'Nari Manifestations all together and just male them permanent choices built into the Mythos, much like Festering Carrion-Horror and Eternal Cadaver Idol. Any ideas, criticism, or general advice would be appreciated.

Scerpico
2014-01-06, 11:06 PM
As a massive fan of this style of class I felt I'd actually get off my butt and toss my hat into the homebrew ring like I keep telling myself I will (and never actually doing)

Contained within the spoiler are the results of about an hours fevered typing and I'd be really grateful if you guys could give it a look to see if its a workable idea.
By the way Xefas how on earth do you come up with those wonderful names for your classes? all the English to Greek translators I can find just give me results in the Greek alphabet)

(Stupid question here but how on earth do you guys make those wonderful banners? I know theres a link in the OP but I haven't even posted an IMAGE to a forum before let alone constructed a banner so I'm utterly lost.)

Struggler

"Destiny...destiny...destiny...destiny...SHUT THE HELL UP! How 'bout you save your high and mighty crap for after I've been haunted to death, skullface? Sacrifice? Offering? Destiny? Quit spoutin' out a bunch of cryptic explanations! The point is, this is war! It ain't different from any other war! The last one standing wins! Listen here! I'm beatin' all a' you back down to Hell! Tell those ugly pale-faced bastards for me! If I get hit, I will hit back! Tell 'em leavin' me half-eaten is gonna be the end of you! I'll hunt and kill all those wretched monsters...and all of you...DOWN TO THE LAST ONE! THIS IS...MY DECLARATION OF WAR!"
Brief: In a word Defiance. That is what defines the loose collection of souls that take up the mantle of Struggler, to a being they have looked at the world, at what reality itself tells them will be, MUST BE and they have uttered the words that will shake the very pillars of creation.
NO.
To be Struggler is to withstand the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, to make any enemy of all that exists and to carry on anyway, to gaze upon the face of God and spit out your bloody defiance across its cheek.
Less about pure power the Struggler embodies the CHANCE for victory, nothing is denied to those who strive with every erg of their being to achieve it, though the cost be high they will not be denied and woe to those that stand in their way.


Class Images:
1: GUTS (Berserk)
2: ASURA (Asura's Wrath)
3: KAIN (Legacy of Kain)
4: Nox (Wakfu)
5: Xingtian (Chinese mythology)
6: Gilgamesh (Epic of Gilgamesh)
HD: 12
Skill points: 4/level
BAB: GOOD
SAVES: ALL GOOD


Mythos names:

Broken Sword Improvisation: In the crux of battle, when all rests on violent fury it is less the from but the intent that matters, when a Struggler sets out to kill his desire for death drips from all he touches be it sword or rock or branch.
Effect: Take no penalties when using improvised weapons.
Advanced:

Dragonslaying Instrument: Men call things Dragons, Demons, monsters to mark them out as special, to reassure themselves in their lot, men aren’t supposed to kill Dragons, that’s why they’re dragons.
You Don’t have that luxury.
Effect: Pick a weapon, any weapon can do from the finest sword forged by the greatest smith to the simplest stone driven through wood, all that matters is that you take it up with the desire to kill.
So long as this weapon is in your hands attacks made by it ignore a Ghosts incorporeal nature and the damage reduction of outsiders.
Advanced:
Angel-slaying Panopoly: Creatures with the regeneration and fast healing abilities no longer benefit from them with regards to your attacks.

True Grit (need better name): To follow a dream, truly follow a dream is to make the world your enemy and what is fear of death compared to something like that?
Effect: the Struggler becomes immune to natural and supernatural fear effects.

Breaking Water Understanding: Constant reaffirmation of the self through hardship and hate have expanded the limits of the Strugglers existence to the point where they are begin to transcend their limitations, becoming MORE than they once were.
Effect: Pick the characters highest mental stat, this becomes their ‘prime’ stat or ‘Logos’ a part of their fundamental driving force. This stat is added to every attack, damage and ability check in addition to all other relevant modifiers.
Idea; This is a gradual effect that slowly applies to more rolls as the class levels up.

Heretical EGO Prana:


Coins edge Understanding:
The Struggler is not bound to the rules of uncaring stars or pitiless Gods, snatching victory from the jaws of inevitable defeat.
Effect: The Struggler cannot be trapped or affected without contest; when they would be affected by an attack or spell that does not allow a save the Struggler does, in fact get to resist, pitting their force of will and arms against the arbitrary laws that seek to bind them.
(For spells use standard DC generation, for other effects use 10+HD of attackers initiator+ relevant ability bonus)


Headless Rebellion Method: So staunch is the Strugglers will, so powerful their drive that something as trivial as death or decapitation shall not gainsay them in their quest.
Effect: You become immune to Vorpal weapons and by extension any and all crippling effects; though the world might tear at your body, claw at your flesh till nothing is left but blood and crushed bone it can never quell your defiance.
For that is eternal.

Excellences:
Unflinching ATLAS METHOD: Choose one stat, upon purchasing this excellency that stat gains a +2 enhancement bonus. This Excellency can be purchased multiple times, each purchase affecting a different stat.

Dragonslaying method: Gain the powerful build and natural heavy-weight traits.

Some form of Mettle and/or Evasion



What I'm going for here is perhaps best described by referring to one of Exalted's main conceits; An Exalt doesn't just snap their fingers and will you out of existence or slam you through a mountain with a sword made of burning hatred (though they might be able to) What an Exalt does is force you to NOTICE them, to drag the fight to a level upon which they can compete.
Sure they might get killed in that fight but by all that exists it was a FIGHT.

This is a Class that can't just be stuck in a box by a Spellcaster and ignored, that looks at your auto-hit magic missile or your No-save spell or your two-sided coin and says NO! You want victory you can damn well earn it!
'Cue Kung-fu fight'


Honestly I'm not sure if this is either a broad enough concept or too broad of one, after all the very purpose of Player Characters is to buck the rules and go for broke so building a class around that might end up a bit redundant.

Either way I'd love to hear what everyone thinks.

Network
2014-01-06, 11:21 PM
Hey guys; I need a bit more inspiration. Does anyone know any good pieces of media about dark magic, witches or furies? There's the old tales about Baba Yaga and other fairy tales involving witches as villains, but what about more modern or obscure ones?
If you are still looking for inspiration, I think this movie (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/TheCraft?from=Main.TheCraft) has characters that may fit for your class.

Xefas
2014-01-06, 11:34 PM
By the way Xefas how on earth do you come up with those wonderful names for your classes? all the English to Greek translators I can find just give me results in the Greek alphabet)

Step 1

http://i.imgur.com/MoHrz7D.png
Step 2

http://i.imgur.com/UheubNZ.png
Step 3

http://i.imgur.com/T4BrSwO.gif

Adam1949
2014-01-07, 12:02 AM
Huh, that's actually pretty neat. I didn't think about doing it that way, I just went with a word that sounded neat (and, I'll admit, that I stole from Dragon's Dogma).

... In a medieval noble household a seneschal was in charge of domestic arrangements and the administration of servants. In the French administrative system of the Middle Ages, the sénéchal was also a royal officer in charge of justice and control...

From Wikipedia.


Stupid question here but how on earth do you guys make those wonderful banners? I know theres a link in the OP but I haven't even posted an IMAGE to a forum before let alone constructed a banner so I'm utterly lost.
Alright, this is how I do it.
The first step is to find 8 characters that match, in some way, the theme of your class.
Next, go into paint and cut the picture that they're in so that they are the focus (preferably their head), in a 250x250 square. Save it, and then repeat for the other 7 pictures.
Then, go here --->http://bighugelabs.com/mosaic.php
Set the Columns to 4 and the Rows to 2, and slide the 'space between images' slider all the way to the left (no space in between).
Put in your 8 pictures, in left-to-right, top-to-bottom order.
Click "Create".
Save it, then go back in Paint and set it to 1000x500.
Place it into Imgur, or some other picture-sharing site.
Finally, copy the link, make a reply, and place the link into it by wrapping it with [ img ][ /img ] (without the spaces).
There, all done!

vasharanpaladin
2014-01-07, 12:37 AM
I'll admit mine was mostly the result of fiddling around with word roots until I found something that sounded good. Forget exactly where "lumi-" comes from, "-arch," I believe, is Greek, but even if I'm wrong about the origins the name "luminarch" ultimately means something along the lines of "light ruler." :smallconfused:

Agrippa
2014-01-07, 01:12 AM
I'm thinking about either an outright Mythos class, or just a Mythos style banner. I'm a bit hazy on the details but it deals with mysticism and power over life and death. Examples of this class or concept might include Aerith from FFVII or Yuna from FFX, Doctor Orpheus of The Venture Brothers and Misty Day (http://americanhorrorstory.wikia.com/wiki/Misty_Day) of AHS: Coven.

Aldurin
2014-01-07, 08:29 AM
The Mythos works are fascinating, something I'm definitely excited to see develop further. Are there any plans for a mythos class around being the party face, more specifically fluffed as being the leaders who carve nations out of the remains of those they conquer with armies driven by the sheer motivation of the character's speeches and diplomatic skill? Mechanically I imagine it being along the line of party face power that mitigates the dangers of encounters against creatures open to such reasoning, with actual combat stuff focusing more on defensive stuff to allow them to survive long enough to convince their opponent that the fight is a lost cause.

For banner characters for that class, the only ones I can really think of off of the top of my head are Lelouch from Code Geass and possible Kuze from Ghost in the Shell: SAC 2nd Gig. If you're familiar with the former that's the sort of progression I'd imagine, and something I would like to have mechanics for when building NPCs and certain characters. Not pressuring you to rush an idea or add it to your list if it's not there, but that's what I would like to see come out of this homebrew set the most.

GreaserFish
2014-01-07, 09:00 AM
Are there any plans for a mythos class around being the party face, more specifically fluffed as being the leaders who carve nations out of the remains of those they conquer with armies driven by the sheer motivation of the character's speeches and diplomatic skill?

The Cynosure is basically the Mythos Marshall, interpreted as being someone whose very presence instills beauteous power in their followers. In other words, just by being there and being magnificent, they make their friends good at stuff, regardless of the actual power of the Cynosure.

That said, I'm sure you could easily come up with something more aligned toward being a leader in their own right.

Scerpico
2014-01-07, 10:00 AM
Thanks Xefas, I never thought to use google translate (shows what brainstorming a class at 3 in the morning'll do to you) and the translators I was using didn't give anything beyond the word itself in Greek.


Alright, this is how I do it.

Thanks a lot, I always feel a bit silly asking these things.

Now that I'm thinking a bit more clearly I wanted to outline this somewhat more clearly; The Struggler is intended to represent Defiance in the face of impossible odds, the men and women who rage against heaven, Hell and Fate itself to achieve their goals no matter what stands in their way and in doing so become something more than what they once were, as they strive to overcome what prevents their dream they by necessity begin to overcome ALL that limits them.

I'm thinking Guts fighting a war against God and forging a weapon that can slay Angels through the power of hatred and spite.

I'm thinking Kain gambling existence itself on the edge of the coin.

I'm thinking Gendo Ikari plunging the whole world into death and forced transformation to reunite with his wife.

I'm thinking Xingtian continuing his rebellion even after they cut off his head.

I'm thinking Asura toppling an empire for revenge and killing GOD for hurting his daughter.

I'm thinking Kamina's stubborn refusal to follow the laws of physics

Now what I'm not sure about is if this merits a full class or would work better as something akin to Xefas' mythic races; a small optional package that an be bolted on to another Mythos class, I don't want to fall into the trap of making 'GUTS' the class when whats really important here is the INTENT rather than the method.

GreaserFish
2014-01-07, 11:26 AM
Man, I feel like such a dink for posting so much in this thread, especially after lurking for ages, but I feel I ought to follow through with something I'm interested in for once in my life.

Even if it's just making the poor man's Heirodule the Aethenos.

Seeing as I've actually got inspiration and some shreds of motivation left, I've put some thought into what I want the core mechanics of my class to be.

Conviction is a measure of the level of willpower the Aethenos can muster to complete any one task. It overall provides a rather passive buff to most subjects in the form of a morale bonus, but it can also be used to effectively buy better rolls at the cost of a weary mind. An Aethenos must keep his heart hard and his will strong if he wants to bludgeon his way to victory through the sheer force of his self-justified glory.

It sort of acts like a counter to Guilt, but not in a positive vs negative sort of way. Guilt inevitably hangs harder on the mind, but if Conviction can overpower it, it will eventually win out and start to reduce guilt levels.

Might have some other effects too, if I can think of anything good enough. Those other effects will probably come from one Mythos or another that interacts directly with Conviction and Guilt.

Ways of increasing Conviction usually involve reducing Guilt in some manner or doing something suitably heroic/villainous/whatever fits. Options might be single-handedly slaying a dragon or bringing down a god with one's own two hands.
Guilt is a measure of how much the morally questionable actions the Aethenos has committed begin to chain them down. It causes passive nerfs and the occasional status ailment, along with other strange effects based on the choices the Aethenos makes with their Mythos loadout.

It sort of acts like a counter to Conviction, but not in a positive vs negative sort of way. Guilt inevitably hangs harder on the mind, but if Conviction can overpower it, it will eventually win out and start to reduce guilt levels.

Ways of reducing Guilt usually involve some kind of sacrifice on behalf of the Aethenos, such as donating the majority of their funds to a random beggar or going so far as to flagellate themselves in penance. It's generally easier to obtain Guilt than Conviction, so this stuff will be coming up a lot.
The Cause that an Aethenos subscribes to is essentially the source of both their Conviction and their Guilt. The Cause dictates what exactly the Aethenos wants to accomplish and how they go about it, along with a lot of aesthetic differences. One Aethenos might be a glorious paladin who seeks to drive the forces of evil out from the shadows in which they hide and scorch them with the unrelenting fury of the sun, but a different Aethenos might want to poison the sun into an unrecognizable black scar in the sky, casting an unearthly pallor for all eternity. Yet another Aethenos might just want to earn civil rights for bug people, but is really, really extreme in their methods.

Choosing to spend time without a Cause will lead to Guilt racking up faster, slower Conviction increases, and eventually even increases in Guilt by the day, regardless of Conviction. All in all, an Aethenos must always be on the lookout for another Cause should theirs go sour. Or, at least, the player ought to.
Code is basically the Paladin's code of honor, but with a twist. As with the Heirodule, the Aethenos chooses their own code that they follow, with a few usual topics like not killing one's allies or aiding their enemies. However, Codes are usually tailored to the Cause that the Aethenos follows. A demon worshiper and a saint of battle would likely have two very different codes, for numerous reasons.

Most entries in a Code can be summed up in one of two ways: One, doing the specified action will result in an increase in Guilt; or two, doing the specified action will result in an increase in Conviction.
This may not go anywhere, but in the end, I'm sure I'll feel like a better person for actually completing it. If I complete it.
Before the Heirodule is inevitably finished and about a thousand times better.
Man, I ought to stop bugging you guys with this, shouldn't I?

Primal Fury
2014-01-07, 02:15 PM
Alright, I'm messing around with a mythos acquisition mechanic for the Hag that I want to run by you guys. Witches have a history of making bargains and tricking people to get what they want, so what if some Mythos could only be acquired that way? Instead of getting it when you level up, or purchasing it with Mythos points and xp, you trick the maiden into giving you her voice, or steal the demon's bag of souls, then BOOM, the mythos is yours right then and there.

How does that sound?

Vauron
2014-01-07, 06:18 PM
I think something like what Xefas revealed about the Ophidian would work better. Essentially, instead of 'get mythos after doing X', I suggest going with 'unlock second half of mythos after doing something relevant to the mythos'.

Primal Fury
2014-01-07, 06:49 PM
Oh! I didn't see that? Where is it?

vasharanpaladin
2014-01-07, 07:10 PM
Teramach, "Sun-Swallowing Gorge-Monster Gluttony" is the first instance of it.

Network
2014-01-07, 07:14 PM
Now what I'm not sure about is if this merits a full class or would work better as something akin to Xefas' mythic races; a small optional package that an be bolted on to another Mythos class, I don't want to fall into the trap of making 'GUTS' the class when whats really important here is the INTENT rather than the method.
Why not? I can see so many things done with this premise. 'Guts' is basically determination, or willpower, if you like, and there is nothing that cannot be done with sheer force of will. Lift tons of debris on your back so that some random bystander survives the collapse of a building unharmed? Spider-man is your friend. Survive despite clearly lethal injuries long enough to kill the big bad? Overused everywhere. Fight unconscious? Rock Lee from Naruto almost did it. Time travel? Green lanterns and the protagonist from The Fountain did it. Kill gods? Asura, as you mentioned. Invert death itself to tell your allies how to defeat an unbeatable opponent? Jiraya, still from Naruto. There are literally entire tropes of those, this one (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Determinator) for starters. For the record, the Wedded To History feat from Dragon #354, which is about being an immortal character in ages long past, has 'Survivor' as one choice offered, which is by fluff a person who lived millenia by refusing to age and die. And this is just the examples I could find in ten minutes.

Primal Fury
2014-01-07, 07:22 PM
Teramach, "Sun-Swallowing Gorge-Monster Gluttony" is the first instance of it.
Oh of course! It's been so long since I've looked at that I forgot all about it. I need to look at them more to get a better idea of what I'm doing.

Scerpico
2014-01-07, 08:21 PM
Why not? I can see so many things done with this premise. 'Guts' is basically determination, or willpower, if you like, and there is nothing that cannot be done with sheer force of will. Lift tons of debris on your back so that some random bystander survives the collapse of a building unharmed? Spider-man is your friend. Survive despite clearly lethal injuries long enough to kill the big bad? Overused everywhere. Fight unconscious? Rock Lee from Naruto almost did it. Time travel? Green lanterns and the protagonist from The Fountain did it. Kill gods? Asura, as you mentioned. Invert death itself to tell your allies how to defeat an unbeatable opponent? Jiraya, still from Naruto. There are literally entire tropes of those, this one for starters. For the record, the Wedded To History feat from Dragon #354, which is about being an immortal character in ages long past, has 'Survivor' as one choice offered, which is by fluff a person who lived millenia by refusing to age and die. And this is just the examples I could find in ten minutes.

Sorry I wasn't clear, when I said GUTS the class I was referring to the character Guts From Berserk who is one of the archetypes of the idea and one of my favorite fictional characters and I was worried I'd accidentally over-saturate the class with his traits.

What you've listed is exactly what I'm going for; someone who WILL NOT STOP till you've pretty much reduced them to a stain on the landscape (and even then you'd better not turn your back on it) What I really want is feedback on appropriate power levels and avoiding mythos overlapping too much.

For example Coins Edge Understanding was one of the concepts I wanted for this class most strongly and it represents the Struggler's stubborn refusal to accept the options another presents and forcing their will on the world to the point where they can no longer be affected by automatic/no save effects; anything you throw at this class it has the chance to throw off/ignore.

Or Headless Rebellion Method which draws on the Chinese story of Xintian who didn't even let his own decapitation stop his rebellion and offers increasing immunity to decapitation and crippling effects.

The problem is that I'm unsure if these should be a fantastic or Legendary mythos, this kind of power certainly changes a fairly major paradigm but doesn't in and of itself feel particularly powerful.


Aside from that I do have the most basic idea down, that of LOGOS; the thing upon which a Struggler frames themselves and how they transcend their limits.
I'm thinking each Struggler picks their highest mental stat, henceforth referred to as their LOGOS and as they advance in this class they add the modifier of this ability to more and more of their rolls and checks, even adding to or replacing their CON for HP purposes to represent the Iron core of identity that keeps them moving long after their flesh should have failed.

GreaserFish
2014-01-07, 08:29 PM
Sorry I wasn't clear, when I said GUTS the class I was referring to the character Guts From Berserk who is one of the archetypes of the idea and one of my favorite fictional characters and I was worried I'd accidentally over-saturate the class with his traits.

What you've listed is exactly what I'm going for; someone who WILL NOT STOP till you've pretty much reduced them to a stain on the landscape (and even then you'd better not turn your back on it) What I really want is feedback on appropriate power levels and avoiding mythos overlapping too much.

There's nothing wrong with having a lot of flavor from a specific character be prolific in your class. Xefas himself says that he draws a lot of inspiration from the tabletop Exalted, I was planning on basing a lot around the Arbiter for the Aethenos, and I'm sure it wouldn't be that much of an issue if Guts is a major component in your class.

On another topic, might I suggest Epimonos as the name for it? A quick google translate puts it as meaning 'stubborn' or 'persevering', and I think that's the sort of thing you're going for.

Xefas
2014-01-07, 08:32 PM
Are there any plans for a mythos class around being the party face, more specifically fluffed as being the leaders who carve nations out of the remains of those they conquer with armies driven by the sheer motivation of the character's speeches and diplomatic skill?

For simplicity, I'm creating a central location (http://imgur.com/a/EPekI) with all the Mythos classes that are "in the works", so folks don't need to go digging around in old threads to find them.

It's not done at the moment; there're several that I haven't decided on the last few characters for their banner, and will add them when I do. But all the ones I've spoken of before are there (minus the Hierodule), plus two that I haven't (or perhaps lightly in passing?).



Now what I'm not sure about is if this merits a full class or would work better as something akin to Xefas' mythic races; a small optional package that an be bolted on to another Mythos class, I don't want to fall into the trap of making 'GUTS' the class when whats really important here is the INTENT rather than the method.

I think this is always an option if you're not up to making an idea into a full class, or are unsure of whether it could fill out a whole class. I plan on making a Mythic Chef supplementary feat at some point, not because I don't think you could make a whole class about food, I do, but I just don't feel like doing so.

Scerpico
2014-01-07, 08:47 PM
There's nothing wrong with having a lot of flavor from a specific character be prolific in your class. Xefas himself says that he draws a lot of inspiration from the tabletop Exalted, I was planning on basing a lot around the Arbiter for the Aethenos, and I'm sure it wouldn't be that much of an issue if Guts is a major component in your class.

On another topic, might I suggest Epimonos as the name for it? A quick google translate puts it as meaning 'stubborn' or 'persevering', and I think that's the sort of thing you're going for.

Its less that I'm opposed to including chunks of him and more that I'm afraid I'd go overboard, chances are its just me being paranoid, first homebrew jitters and all that.

As it stands Guts is providing the Mythos/excellencies Dragon Killing Method and joining Asura for Monstrous Butcher Understanding
which focus around using weapons unfeasible (read impossible) for a normal human (large weapons, possibly increasing to colossal for sheer insanity) and the ability to kill things that normally cannot be killed (based upon his turning a joke of a sword into a weapon that can wound Angels through sheer spite and Asura's punching out GOD)

Thanks a lot for the possible name, that is what I'm going for,I'll add it to Agó̱na (To struggle according to google) as a possible title. (I'll probably hold a vote so people can pick their favorite)

Adam1949
2014-01-07, 09:40 PM
http://i.imgur.com/cV4ISg0.png

http://i.imgur.com/n3Y9Qo9.png

Well... these are new. I'm actually really excited for both of them, more so than I am for the Kathados going beyond the 40% point. For the first one, Mr. Xefas, anything that can claim itself to be influenced by Doctor Manhattan, Maxwell, Neo, Tzeentch, Joshua, and Discord is a good thing in my book.
As for the second one, I was originally apprehensive when I saw the 'iconic' examples of them; Flonne, Sora, Aeris, Sailor Scouts, Persona 3 MC, and Pinky Pie... But then I saw the final one. I believe that's Horus? As always, you manage to make it so that even the lowest of the Mythos have a hero among their ranks, and that even with the most Noblebright of ideas you can showcase how a villainous traitor can harness their power. My hats off to you, Master of Mythos.

Meanwhile, finally got an excellency for the Seneschal, based on the idea that there are multiple souls within them, thus their are too many differing thoughts and opinions to really get them as a single target.
Whispering Anarchy of the Mind's Eye
The multitude of souls that reside within the warden, that cling to his very essence, are his eternal compatriots, following him and forever wrapping him in their pathetic embrace. Even those without a true sense of self aid him, albeit without realizing, as their force-of-personality allows him to put on a facade of whatever belief he deems most necessary at the time.

You act as though you were permanently under the effect of Undetectable Alignment, always appearing to anyone as of the alignment that they would most agree with. If you ever act out of accordance with someone's opinions (for example, a Chaotic Good character seeing you enslave a family of innocents), they must make a Will save in order to see you as anything more than using extreme means to reach and justify good ends. In addition, you detect as whatever alignment works most in your favor at any one time (for example, if you are a Seneschal/Paladin attempting to utilize a Book of Vile Darkness, you count as Lawful Good for the purpose of your class, and as Evil for the purpose of the item, at the same time). Note that this does not stop your alignment from changing; it merely prevents negative effects from doing so affecting you.
Advanced
Heart of the Landwalker: You also count as whatever race would most benefit you at the time.

Xefas
2014-01-07, 10:07 PM
As for the second one, I was originally apprehensive when I saw the 'iconic' examples of them; Flonne, Sora, Aeris, Sailor Scouts, Persona 3 MC, and Pinky Pie... But then I saw the final one. I believe that's Horus? As always, you manage to make it so that even the lowest of the Mythos have a hero among their ranks, and that even with the most Noblebright of ideas you can showcase how a villainous traitor can harness their power. My hats off to you, Master of Mythos.

Not Horus, but close. Eliphas the Inheritor, a lord of Chaos Undivided. That is, a faction in which followers of all four Chaos Gods work together.

He's spent 10,000 years successfully getting a legion of psychopaths, deviants, nihilists, megalomaniacs, and demons literally composed of diametrically opposed energies to work together for the greater benefit of everyone involved. He can make Khorne Berserkers work alongside Sorcerers and Noise Marines, and Noise Marines charge into battle ahead of Great Unclean Ones. And you can't even cop out and say he forces them to work together out of fear because Khorne Berserkers don't feel fear, goddamnit.

This man is the Chaotic Evil Demon God of Friendship, and all the universe will tremble at his multiracial non-heteronormative disability-inclusive Captain Planet blitzkrieg of death.


Meanwhile, finally got an excellency for the Seneschal, based on the idea that there are multiple souls within them, thus their are too many differing thoughts and opinions to really get them as a single target.

It's a cool idea, but I think the Will save effect is a bit much for an Excellency. And I'm not sure how I feel about manifestations on Excellencies. It seems to me that if you have enough benefits that they have to be stacked along multiple levels, then it might be complex enough that the concept deserves its own Mythos.

Kazyan
2014-01-07, 10:13 PM
This man is the Chaotic Evil Demon God of Friendship, and all the universe will tremble at his multiracial non-heteronormative disability-inclusive Captain Planet blitzkrieg of death.

Off-topic, but this just dispelled my irrational dislike of WH40K (at least for a while).

ScrambledBrains
2014-01-07, 10:43 PM
Xefas, if it's not too much trouble to explain, can you tell me what...well, what cosmology you use for your Mythos classes? I want to look them up to see if I can maybe get inspired and create a Mythos class of my own. :smallsmile:

GreaserFish
2014-01-08, 12:46 AM
multiracial non-heteronormative disability-inclusive Captain Planet blitzkrieg of death.

Sounds like a Mythos in its own right.

EDIT: To ScrambledBrains, the following is quoted from Xefas.

They use the Planescape/Great Wheel cosmology. Because I can't be arsed to learn what esoteric strata Eberron and Dragonlance revolve on.

Adam1949
2014-01-08, 01:05 AM
Not Horus, but close. Eliphas the Inheritor, a lord of Chaos Undivided. That is, a faction in which followers of all four Chaos Gods work together.

This man is the Chaotic Evil Demon God of Friendship, and all the universe will tremble at his multiracial non-heteronormative disability-inclusive Captain Planet blitzkrieg of death.
Well then! I like it even more.



It's a cool idea, but I think the Will save effect is a bit much for an Excellency. And I'm not sure how I feel about manifestations on Excellencies. It seems to me that if you have enough benefits that they have to be stacked along multiple levels, then it might be complex enough that the concept deserves its own Mythos.
Man, I can never seem to get these right. What about this for an excellency?

Cacophonous Understanding Mantra
People speak different things. That's just how it is. It separates cultures, making each one unique and different. It keeps secrets, it gives messages, it does all sorts of things. However, with a thousand-thousand lifetimes contained within him, the Seneschal is not a mere person.
You automatically understand (though not speak) all non-secret languages. In addition, you may use the Speak Language skill to learn secret languages as if they were normal languages.
Advanced
God-Blaspheming Tongue: You can automatically speak all languages that you understand.

I hope this is more like it.

Agrippa
2014-01-08, 01:47 AM
Here's some more of my idea. Members of the proposed Mythos I'm suggesting are in tune with the very forces of life and death and the ebb and flow of spirits, especially those of the dead. By this power they can rekindle life in the fallen and snuff it out as well. Members of this unnamed Mythos also have power to commune with the dead, channel spirits of the dead or divine and ward off or cast out unclean spirits, whether fiend or undead. That's if she isn't implanting them in others. So members of this class would of course include Aerith Gainsborough or Yuna, Doctor Strange and his parody Doctor Orpheus, Misty Day, Jesse Turner (http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/index.php?title=Jesse_Turner) and Adam Young (http://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/index.php/Adam_Young).

Tacitus
2014-01-08, 02:38 AM
So I've done some thinking and I've got some basic ideas thus far.

Never been good with names, but I'm looking at something that represents a fear of death or fate. Mixing words and languages gives me something like Timoira or Thanaphobos or some nonsense. Occasus shows promise, though.

I'm thinking a focus on Constitution and a mental attribute I haven't decided on. The indecision is because I'm not yet sure whether I want the fear he feels towards death to be rational or entirely irrational. Probably Wisdom, might even include some way to track Paranoia or Mania as a thing, both as a resource and detriment. Not sure yet what would generate such a resource or spend it.

Proficiencies would probably simple, or mainly blunt weapons and likely only light armor to start with either Excellencies or full on Mythos to grant more armor as the fear ratchets up and the desire to be wrapped in more protection skyrockets. Mental Attribute would likely offer an AC bonus, with fluff as wild jerking motions at the slightest provocation, halves by Medium Armor, Removed by Heavy (alterable by a Mythos?).

Definitely needs the ability to deal nonlethal damage straight off.

And a spoiler with naming ideas
Don't Leave Me
I Order You To Live
They're out to Steal the Lucky Charms
Defeat=Friendship!
Friends Close, Enemies Closer
Tinfoil Hat Warding Method
More friends = More Power

Oooh, these next few I took off that Transhumanist essay.
Life to Time Conversion Ratio
Flickering Sun Rejection
Thanos Procession Acceptance
Charity for the Dead
Unmaking Death Strategies
Sentience Annihilation Prevention

Mythos would include outright healing of wounds and conditions, eventually preventing or reversing death, turning a downed (but not dead) enemy into a Deathless servant (which, yes, I realize it kills the person, but whatevs), and wards against bad things happening. Probably even need something to keep people bound to horribly deformed bodies because the Mythos Healer is unwilling to let them go for a splash of horror.

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-08, 03:12 AM
Well.

Here is my..Attempt at a Mythos roster.
The Akatstarepti
http://uppix.com/f-Untitled52cd0827001510a7.png

Blueiji
2014-01-08, 03:27 AM
Well.

Here is my..Attempt at a Mythos roster.
The Akatstarepti
http://uppix.com/f-Untitled52cd0827001510a7.png

I don't know if this was your intention, but seeing that image triggered an instinctive "flee" instinct in my brain, and I had a sudden urge to literally run from my computer screen.

In other words, good job with that roster.

General Patton
2014-01-08, 03:47 AM
I might try to do a Mythos version of the Ozodrin.
The Diamorfosi. Meaning configuration, formation, modulation, conformation, molding. Powered by sheer impossibility and the madness of that which is and is not. An ever-shifting chaos that is all things and their antithesis simultaneously, carving a path through obstacles with raw physical/logical incompatibility.

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-08, 03:56 AM
I don't know if this was your intention, but seeing that image triggered an instinctive "flee" instinct in my brain, and I had a sudden urge to literally run from my computer screen.

In other words, good job with that roster.

Terror, Indestructibility, godlike power. Bringers of the Apocalypse. World Enders.

You should be running. :smallamused:

Seriously, After a couple of 10th level tests, this thing could solo a slightly optimized 14th level Wizard with only Fantastic Mythos.

HAHAHAHA.

Durazno
2014-01-08, 05:06 AM
Mercer kind of stands out from the others in the roster. Is that intentional? It's actually pretty effective from where I stand, but it might seem offbeat to people who don't recognize him.

Come to think of it, he'd also be a decent choice for the Diamorfosi roster, wouldn't he?

GreaserFish
2014-01-08, 09:06 AM
Two more for the Aethenos, this time based on Elesh Norn and Frollo.

Forsaken Tongue Severing
Prerequesite: -
There are many ways that the unenlightened and the heretical can cause harm to the virtue of the Judge. One of the most often overlooked is with their vile speech of hatred. They call the Judge a lunatic, genocidal, a maniac. Some have even worse methods with their tongue, and they call their vile powers "Arcane", or "Truenaming". Regardless of the nature of their abilities, the solution is obvious. Simply cut out the tongues of the forsaken.

As one of your standard attacks, make a melee touch attack against a foe capable of vocalizing, with a bonus to hit equal to your current Conviction level. If the attack hits, no damage is dealt, but the target is forced to make a Will save with DC equal to (10+Aethenos+Conviction-Guilt), or be rendered incapable of speech, and any abilities the rely on it cease to function. Abilities that do not rely on speech, such as a silenced spell, are not effected.

After 1d4 hours have passed, speech is returned to the victim of this ability, though their voice is hoarse and dry for 1d10 minutes afterward.

Basic
Soul Crushing Strike: Whenever you successfully hit a target with the touch attack granted by Forsaken Tongue Severing and the target fails the Will save, in addition to losing speech and any abilities that rely on it, they also lose any supernatural or magical abilities they possess.

Crusader's Divine Toolkit: Instead of making a melee touch attack, you may instead make an attack with any weapon of your choice, including ranged weapons and natural weapons, with the normal bonuses and penalties in addition to the bonus from Conviction granted by this Mythos. Additionally, damage dealt by the weapon is halved instead of negated.

Hellfire Curse Retaliation
Prerequesite: -
The mind and body of the Judge are sacred things. One does not merely desecrate them and get away without recompense. Any who believe that the Judge will suffer any curse or ailment without unleashing his terrible fury upon the one who ailed him so is a fool. Any who believe that the Judge will not come after them for their transgressions will be terribly surprised when they feel the fires of retribution cleanse their body of heresy.

First, choose an energy type appropriate for your Cause from Cold, Acid, and Fire. For especially esoteric Causes, Force or Sound may be applicable, or even Slashing or Piercing. For most, however, the first three will suffice. Once chosen, this energy type cannot be changed until you change Causes.

Next, choose a target that has given you a status condition within the last twenty four hours. You will immediately know whether or not they are:

On the same plane as you.
Within 10 miles/Aethenos level.
Still alive.

If all of the above are true, then you may make a Will save, with DC equal to (10+Distance in Miles From Target+Number of Status Conditions+Guilt+Target's Wisdom Mod). If you are successful, you may immediately remove any ongoing status conditions caused by the Target.

Additionally, the Target takes Xd6 points of damage of your chosen energy type, where X is the number of status ailments they inflicted you with.

As always, my work feels a bit cobbled-together for my tastes. Any suggestions toward streamlining these things would be appreciated.

I seem to be posting an awful lot in this thread. Do you guys think I ought to tone it down a bit?

Primal Fury
2014-01-08, 10:58 AM
Terror, Indestructibility, godlike power. Bringers of the Apocalypse. World Enders.

You should be running. :smallamused:

Seriously, After a couple of 10th level tests, this thing could solo a slightly optimized 14th level Wizard with only Fantastic Mythos.

HAHAHAHA.
I would very much like to see some of these Mythos. That sounds ridiculous.

Draken
2014-01-08, 11:21 AM
Hmm...

@ShadowFireLance: I can't help but think you will have trouble differentiating that class from the Teramach. Unless you plan to go much heavier on body modification.

I mean, brutality, fear, unstoppability are already heavy themes of The Monster.

Heck, the name of the Mythos source is already a telltale sign.

Tychris1
2014-01-08, 11:29 AM
Agreed, it does feel like the Teramach with the Monster Banner it has going on.

Also, wow it is suprisingly hard to find good media sources for a dark ascension theme. Any advice?

Draken
2014-01-08, 11:39 AM
Agreed, it does feel like the Teramach with the Monster Banner it has going on.

Also, wow it is suprisingly hard to find good media sources for a dark ascension theme. Any advice?

Define Dark Ascension.

I mean, when I read the term, the first thing to come to mind was Ulrezaj.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080921044949/starcraft/images/5/57/Ulrezaj_SC2_Cncpt1.jpg

Tychris1
2014-01-08, 12:45 PM
Shed your mortal coil and become a Demon/Outsider.

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-08, 01:07 PM
Hmm...

@ShadowFireLance: I can't help but think you will have trouble differentiating that class from the Teramach. Unless you plan to go much heavier on body modification.

I mean, brutality, fear, unstoppability are already heavy themes of The Monster.

Heck, the name of the Mythos source is already a telltale sign.

Where the Teramach has Power, the Akatstarepti burns with it. Where the Teramach has savage, uncontrolled brutality, The Akatstarepti has a cold intellengnce behind it's incredible destruction. It is to Mythos class what the Mythos classes are to normal. And good Tiamat the fluff has gotten ridiculous at this point.

vasharanpaladin
2014-01-08, 02:05 PM
Where the Teramach has Power, the Akatstarepti burns with it. Where the Teramach has savage, uncontrolled brutality, The Akatstarepti has a cold intellengnce behind it's incredible destruction. It is to Mythos class what the Mythos classes are to normal. And good Tiamat the fluff has gotten ridiculous at this point.

Oh, look, it's Atrocitus... who's already a facet of the Monster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16063907&postcount=238), try again later. :smallcool:

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-08, 02:07 PM
Oh, look, it's Atrocitus... who's already a facet of the Monster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16063907&postcount=238), try again later. :smallcool:

We shall see. Can the Monster claim Godzilla? Or Alduin? I think not. :smallcool:

General Patton
2014-01-08, 02:14 PM
I've broadened the concept of Diamorfosi to include madness/fear, impossibility, shadows, and horrific transformation/amalgamation of parts. I'm thinking my roster will be Ozoi, Discord, a shoggoth, Zalgo, Slenderman, Raven (Teen Titans), Alucard, and Pennywise.

@Tacitus: I can see that class having options involving alchemy. Methuselan Longevity-Bestowing Potency? Some kind of life-extending brew that also permanently improves the imbiber's Con and Fort vs. disease? I also think a decent Mythos Point acquisition method might be expenditure of money to save random persons you don't even have a strong connection with. I can totally picture some alchemist just wandering the countryside, leaving a trail of peasants with octupled lifespans everywhere he goes.

vasharanpaladin
2014-01-08, 02:21 PM
We shall see. Can the Monster claim Godzilla? Or Alduin? I think not. :smallcool:

You're challenging me on Gojira. Do not do this, as it will only end in your downfall.

You're challenging me, specifically, on the Heisei era, which I grew up on, depicting Gojira as what is essentially a barely-controlled rabid guard dog. A greater example of the Monster you will never find. Gojira is not "cold intelligence," he is a Monster in miniature who wreaks havoc by his mere existence. The only "intelligence" Gojira has is whoever's pointing him at what they want him to smash. You'll have more luck convincing me Gojira belongs there with an image from the Showa era, where he's pretty much Barney.

Oh, and by the way? Primate or not, Kong also slots better into the Teramach than your "cold intelligence" bit.


The character you play as is definitely a Teramach. The real Alex Mercer could only bluster and threaten before being gunned down.

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-08, 02:26 PM
You're challenging me on Gojira. Do not do this, as it will only end in your downfall.

You're challenging me, specifically, on the Heisei era, which I grew up on, depicting Gojira as what is essentially a barely-controlled rabid guard dog. A greater example of the Monster you will never find. Gojira is not "cold intelligence," he is a Monster in miniature who wreaks havoc by his mere existence. The only "intelligence" Gojira has is whoever's pointing him at what they want him to smash. You'll have more luck convincing me Gojira belongs there with an image from the Showa era, where he's pretty much Barney.

Oh, and by the way? Primate or not, Kong also slots better into the Teramach than your "cold intelligence" bit.


The character you play as is definitely a Teramach. The real Alex Mercer could only bluster and threaten before being gunned down.

I'm fairly certain Godzilla could fit both, but he fits better with my theme. Just wait and read the class, If everything goes right, it'll be done today.

Indeed, which is why I'm thinking i'll replace him with someone.

Sorry, Prototype is not a Teramach, he's not crazy spittle raging, he's far more concise.

vasharanpaladin
2014-01-08, 02:28 PM
[QUOTE=ShadowFireLance;16750427
Sorry, Prototype is not a Teramach, he's not crazy spittle raging, he's far more concise.[/QUOTE]

Neither is Atrocitus, so your point is lost here. Just avoid "Psychotic Sapience-Brutalizing Devolution."

Also, just to be a bit more constructive with the criticism...

Have you considered the Colossal, Female or Armored Titans?

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-08, 02:33 PM
Neither is Atrocitus, so your point is lost here. Just avoid "Psychotic Sapience-Brutalizing Devolution."

Also, just to be a bit more constructive with the criticism...

Have you considered the Colossal, Female or Armored Titans?

Titans? From what exactly?

vasharanpaladin
2014-01-08, 02:35 PM
That would be Shingeki no Kyojin, or Attack on Titan depending on your language preferences. I've found the former is usually easier to search.

3WhiteFox3
2014-01-08, 02:47 PM
Shed your mortal coil and become a Demon/Outsider.

The ones that immediately jump out at me are the various hollow manifestations from Ichigo (Bleach; Video of the various forms (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzMQl5Xeb-w)) and the kyuubi-manifestations Naruto from the anime of the same name (Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGTH-KRYdgA))

Adam1949
2014-01-08, 03:09 PM
Behold, the beginnings of the Mythos Dvati! The fluff will come later, but for now a simple beginning.

http://i.imgur.com/yzFXyEd.jpg

New Feat: The Legacy of the Hidden Pair
Prerequisite: One Mythos, must have a twin that also has at least one mythos that chooses this feat as well. (Note: A part of a larger sibling group, such as a brother and a sister from a group of triplets, is also allowed)
Benefit: Choose one Mythos-granting class that you have levels in. You may treat the following Mythos as if they belonged to that class. Your maximum hit points increase by 1 for every [Skill Trick] or [Tactical] feat you possess.

If you somehow lose this feat, or no longer qualify for it, you cease to gain the benefits of the granted Mythos until you regain this feat or qualify for it once more.

Finally, whenever you would gain a Mythos from this feat, your twin must also gain that same Mythos (Mythos' gained from your class or classes are not required to be the same, however). If level loss from such effects as Raise Dead, different amounts of experienced gained, or other such things make it so that you and your twin have differing levels, then the twin that is of the lower level must take whatever Mythos the other has taken when they next gain the opportunity to do so.

Exceptional Mythos

Confusion of the Entwined Soul
You gain Assume Quirk and Second Impression (CS) as bonus feats. When you use these in order to assume the identity of your twin, observers take a -20 penalty to their Spot, Listen, and Sense Motive checks against you.
In addition, if you or your twin is comes under the effect of a scrying or otherwise supernatural spying attempt, there is a 50% chance that the other half is revealed in their place.

Two-Faced Trickster Archetype
You and your twin may communicate over any distance telepathically, even across planes. In addition, both may, a number of times per day equal to half their class level, utilize an Exceptional Mythos that their twin has taken. At 10th level, they may utilize Fantastic Mythos' as well.
As well, as long as you and your twin remain within 20 feet per character level of each other, you may both choose a single target that both of you can see. That target is considered flanked for both of you, even either of you are out of flanking range. Finally, if the target would go through a space threatened by either twin, the other twin may make an attack of opportunity against them as long as they have a weapon that could reach them (this often means that both twins carry at least daggers for throwing, if not a bow or other ranged weapon).

So, how's it looking so far?

Primal Fury
2014-01-08, 03:09 PM
It is to Mythos class what the Mythos classes are to normal.
This, this right here. What is this? What are you talking about? We're already trying to create soul-chillingly powerful, sun-eating, god-killing monstrosities; why are you cranking up the power even more? :smallconfused:

vasharanpaladin
2014-01-08, 03:15 PM
Behold, the beginnings of the Mythos Dvati! The fluff will come later, but for now a simple beginning.

http://i.imgur.com/yzFXyEd.jpg

New Feat: The Legacy of Two Kings
Prerequisite: One Mythos, must have a twin that also has at least one mythos that chooses this feat as well. (Note: A part of a larger sibling group, such as a brother and a sister from a group of triplets, is also allowed)
Benefit: Choose one Mythos-granting class that you have levels in. You may treat the following Mythos as if they belonged to that class. Your maximum hit points increase by 1 for every [Skill Trick] or [Tactical] feat you possess.

If you somehow lose this feat, or no longer qualify for it, you cease to gain the benefits of the granted Mythos until you regain this feat or qualify for it once more.

Finally, whenever you would gain a Mythos from this feat, your twin must also gain that same Mythos (Mythos' gained from your class or classes are not required to be the same, however).

Exceptional Mythos

Confusion of the Entwined Soul
You gain Assume Quirk and Second Impression (CS) as bonus feats. When you use these in order to assume the identity of your twin, observers take a -20 penalty to their Spot, Listen, and Sense Motive checks against you.
In addition, if you or your twin is comes under the effect of a scrying or otherwise supernatural spying attempt, there is a 50% chance that the other half is revealed in their place.

Two-Faced Trickster Archetype
You and your twin may communicate over any distance telepathically, even across planes. In addition, both may, a number of times per day equal to half their class level, utilize an Exceptional Mythos that their twin has taken. At 10th level, they may utilize Fantastic Mythos' as well.
In addition, as long as you and your twin remain within 20 feet per character level of each other, you may both choose a single target that both of you can see. That target is considered flanked for both of you, even either of you are out of flanking range. In addition, if the target would go through a space threatened by either twin, the other twin may make an attack of opportunity against them as long as they have a weapon that could reach them (this often means that both twins carry at least daggers for throwing, if not a bow or other ranged weapon).

So, how's it looking so far?

You forgot Hansel and Gretel (http://www.writeups.org/img/fiche/4424a.jpg), I think. :smalltongue:

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-08, 03:17 PM
This, this right here. What is this? What are you talking about? We're already trying to create soul-chillingly powerful, sun-eating, god-killing monstrosities; why are you cranking up the power even more? :smallconfused:

It is only befitting of a King that his power be greater than that of his subjects, no?

Primal Fury
2014-01-08, 03:21 PM
Fair enough. I look forward to seeing the finished product. Question though, who is the dinosaur next to Alex Mercer? I don't recognize it.

vasharanpaladin
2014-01-08, 03:22 PM
It is only befitting of a King that his power be greater than that of his subjects, no?

Only if he's an ork, really. :smallamused:

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-08, 03:24 PM
Fair enough. I look forward to seeing the finished product. Question though, who is the dinosaur next to Alex Mercer? I don't recognize it.

I'm thinking I'm going to replace it with something, Mostly because anyone I've shown it to has no clue who he is. >.>
Dreadtooth.


Only if he's an ork, really. :smallamused:
Shhh.

vasharanpaladin
2014-01-08, 03:26 PM
I'm thinking I'm going to replace it with something, Mostly because anyone I've shown it to has no clue who he is. >.>
Dreadtooth.


Try Diablo (http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs36/f/2008/246/3/e/Primal_Rage___DIABLO_by_KaijuSamurai.jpg), he's a classic.

Primal Fury
2014-01-08, 03:28 PM
Wouldn't Baal (http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080819101159/d__/diablo/images/4/45/Monster-baalminion-concept.jpg) be more appropriate? He is the Lord of Destruction, after all.

Oh... Wrong Diablo. But the point still stands!

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-08, 03:32 PM
Try Diablo (http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs36/f/2008/246/3/e/Primal_Rage___DIABLO_by_KaijuSamurai.jpg), he's a classic.

I KNEW There was a Dinosaur godthing.
Yes, He fits perfectly.

Adam1949
2014-01-08, 03:33 PM
You forgot Hansel and Gretel (http://www.writeups.org/img/fiche/4424a.jpg), I think. :smalltongue:

Haha, looks like I've got something else to do when I've got free time. :smalltongue:


I think I'm going to replace it with something, Mostly because anyone I show it to has no clue who he is >.>

Here's an idea for you. (http://themodernmage.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Attack-on-titan-eren-jaeger-vs-colossal-titan.jpg)

vasharanpaladin
2014-01-08, 03:36 PM
Here's an idea for you. (http://themodernmage.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Attack-on-titan-eren-jaeger-vs-colossal-titan.jpg)

Do please note that I hid the suggestion to tap this series behind spoiler tags for a reason...

Xefas
2014-01-08, 04:49 PM
Xefas, if it's not too much trouble to explain, can you tell me what...well, what cosmology you use for your Mythos classes? I want to look them up to see if I can maybe get inspired and create a Mythos class of my own. :smallsmile:

As Greaserfish said, Planescape, but with some added content. I've wanted to write out a little timeline summarizing the addition of primordial titans into the setting, but even as a summary, it would be quite long, which is why it hasn't been much of a priority. But, now that I know some people are interested, I may have to bump it up in importance.



Man, I can never seem to get these right. What about this for an excellency?

Cacophonous Understanding Mantra
People speak different things. That's just how it is. It separates cultures, making each one unique and different. It keeps secrets, it gives messages, it does all sorts of things. However, with a thousand-thousand lifetimes contained within him, the Seneschal is not a mere person.
You automatically understand (though not speak) all non-secret languages. In addition, you may use the Speak Language skill to learn secret languages as if they were normal languages.
Advanced
God-Blaspheming Tongue: You can automatically speak all languages that you understand.


I would say the Advanced part can just be added to the main section. You can speak and understand all non-secret languages, and you may use the Speak Language skill to learn secret languages, even without someone to teach you. I think that's okay.


Behold, the beginnings of the Mythos Dvati!

Keep going! :smallwink:

VoodooPaladin
2014-01-08, 04:52 PM
Where the Teramach has Power, the Akatstarepti burns with it. Where the Teramach has savage, uncontrolled brutality, The Akatstarepti has a cold intellengnce behind it's incredible destruction. It is to Mythos class what the Mythos classes are to normal. And good Tiamat the fluff has gotten ridiculous at this point.

I think it sounds more like an Epic Prestige Class in the vein of the Holocoast Sun (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15720209&postcount=9), if you want to know the truth.

Which I think would actually be really awesome. Imagine a class that has Land-Shaping Limitation Ignorance up at all times, unconditionally? With Mythos that multiply the number of natural weapons from the Body Of Samsara's Supernal Monster by twenty, or fifty, or a hundred, so that you could actually have hundreds of bristling spines or snapping maws or iron fists to tear asunder the world? Or an expansion upon With A Perfect World, I Would Be Dead that upraises your Reavers from low-level Teramach into an army of god-slayers in their own right, directed only by your omnidirectional vendetta against the Multiverse?

A Monster that poisons and burns the world with every breath. It shatters and corrupts armies with its touch, absorbing not just their essence with the Protagonism-Devouring Legend Singularity, but their bodies and minds and memories, creating a gestalt extra-cosmic horror that, even should it die, will never leave the warped minds of those who are returned to life. A creature that inspires such incomparable fear that men worlds away hear of its existence are stricken with terror, and whose mere presence can shatter even the most storied of wills.

A God among Monsters should not be a base class.
It would be a disservice.

Adam1949
2014-01-08, 05:18 PM
I would say the Advanced part can just be added to the main section. You can speak and understand all non-secret languages, and you may use the Speak Language skill to learn secret languages, even without someone to teach you. I think that's okay.
I'll take that as I'm getting better, then!


Keep going! :smallwink:
As well as that! Onto more Mythos!

Exceptional Mythos
Invigorating Narcissistic Embrace
As long as you and your twin are on the same plane, you may, as a free action, grant some of your vitality to them, in a twisted version of self-centeredness. By sacrificing any amount of your lifeforce (as long as your HP goes no further than to 1), your twin recovers the same amount of HP, any excess becoming Temporary HP.
Basic
Getting a Hold of Thereself: Whenever you would fail a saving throw, you may instead use your twin's bonus to the saving throw in your place (you do not re-roll the saving throw, however). You both gain a +3 bonus to Will saves.
Self-Righteous Mutilation: In addition, as long as both twins are willing and understand the effects, you may pass any amount of damage you suffer to your twin, up to a maximum of half the damage dealt in that attack. You both gain a +3 bonus to Fortitude saves.
Unity of Touch: As long as you and your twin are physically in connection with each other (including through a rope, weapon, clothing, or other obvious connection, but not counting 'on the same ground'), both of you gain the following class abilities as long as at least one of you has them: Uncanny Dodge, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, Fast Movement. You both a +3 bonus to Reflex saves.
Advanced
Double-Layered Twinsoul:You gain a second basic manifestation of this Mythos. This second manifestation does not need to be the same as the one that your twin chooses.
Fantastic Mythos
Undying Bond of Forbidden Hope
Prerequisite: The Invigorating Narcissistic Embrace Mythos
When you take this Mythos, you must permanently lose a single point in a mental attribute (as your twin must take this Mythos as well, they must also pay this price when they obtain it), and must stay within 10 feet of each other for 24 hours.
Forevermore, neither you nor your twin can ever die from a death effect, damage, attribute damage or drain, or any other source of lethality. If such an event would happen, the character is instead sent to -9 HP and is automatically stabilized. The twin that is not currently suffering this effect knows exactly where in the multiverse there other half is, down to the exact distance if they are on the same plane, as well as feeling a heart-wrenching pain in their chest for as long as they are under 0 HP.
The only way to kill either twin is for both to be brought down to -9 HP, and then having a single attack damage both of them at once (such as from a Fireball). There is a second way to kill the twins, but it is almost unthinkable, considering the effort and deep-rooted connection needed to forge the Mythos and bond; if both attack one another at the same time with a melee weapon (including thrown weapons and natural weapons), the bond is forever broken, and this Mythos is lost without refund.

Network
2014-01-08, 05:20 PM
Haha, looks like I've got something else to do when I've got free time. :smalltongue:
I'd also add Nuada and Nuala, and Sakon and Ukon. Turns out twins in fiction have a wide range of ways to be, well, twins.

Draken
2014-01-08, 05:26 PM
Shed your mortal coil and become a Demon/Outsider.

Protoss Archons (with Ulrezaj as the evil flagship of the lot) are probably to your liking then. Bleach's Ichigo is also a pretty good go.

An evangelion sample should be attempted whenever possible so... Kaworu Nagisa/Tabris perhaps?

Adam1949
2014-01-08, 05:34 PM
I'd also add Nuada and Nuala, and Sakon and Ukon. Turns out twins in fiction have a wide range of ways to be, well, twins.

I considered those as well, but ultimately there are only three "Iconics" in a Mythos Race. However, I will be certain to include abilities that manifest as such things as 'sharing a single body' and 'gaining the skills and powers of the other'.


An evangelion sample should be attempted whenever possible so... Kaworu Nagisa/Tabris perhaps?

Funny thing, I was actually thinking of using a bunch of Rei-clones floating about in Tang as one of the Seneschal examples. Maybe I can still showcase her, either as that or as a different form of the Dvati.

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-08, 05:39 PM
I think it sounds more like an Epic Prestige Class in the vein of the Holocoast Sun (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15720209&postcount=9), if you want to know the truth.

Which I think would actually be really awesome. Imagine a class that has Land-Shaping Limitation Ignorance up at all times, unconditionally? With Mythos that multiply the number of natural weapons from the Body Of Samsara's Supernal Monster by twenty, or fifty, or a hundred, so that you could actually have hundreds of bristling spines or snapping maws or iron fists to tear asunder the world? Or an expansion upon With A Perfect World, I Would Be Dead that upraises your Reavers from low-level Teramach into an army of god-slayers in their own right, directed only by your omnidirectional vendetta against the Multiverse?

A Monster that poisons and burns the world with every breath. It shatters and corrupts armies with its touch, absorbing not just their essence with the Protagonism-Devouring Legend Singularity, but their bodies and minds and memories, creating a gestalt extra-cosmic horror that, even should it die, will never leave the warped minds of those who are returned to life. A creature that inspires such incomparable fear that men worlds away hear of its existence are stricken with terror, and whose mere presence can shatter even the most storied of wills.

A God among Monsters should not be a base class.
It would be a disservice.


Oh, It's all that, and more. Like I said, it's equal, or more powerful to tier 1. Optimization would shatter this class. :smallwink:

Draken
2014-01-08, 06:09 PM
That... Doesn't strike me as a good idea Shadow.

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-08, 06:10 PM
That... Doesn't strike me as a good idea Shadow.

Does anything I do strike you as a good idea?

Draken
2014-01-08, 06:50 PM
Does anything I do strike you as a good idea?

Hmm...

I will get back to you on this. It is a hard question to answer.

But on a serious note. This sounds like it might end up wrong.

Fredaintdead
2014-01-08, 07:19 PM
But on a serious note. This sounds like it might end up wrong.

Or it could end up fun... OR BOTH! :smallbiggrin:

Draken
2014-01-08, 08:11 PM
Hmm... No. I am pretty positive it will end up as that class people ask for and gets denied with a sarcastic laugh. Like Frank & K or dandwiki stuff.

Tychris1
2014-01-08, 08:24 PM
The ones that immediately jump out at me are the various hollow manifestations from Ichigo (Bleach; Video of the various forms (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzMQl5Xeb-w)) and the kyuubi-manifestations Naruto from the anime of the same name (Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGTH-KRYdgA))

Thank you! Those work perfectly! I can throw in a Daemon Prince from Warhammer 40k, and then Ulrezaj means I only need 2 more examples.


Abyssal Bargaining-Brutalized Fool:
In the eyes of the Paladins and Demon Hunters the Scotanova are damned to the Abyss, squandering their time in pursuit of fruitless trees and goals that will never come to fruition. Paths of power that lead to nothing but corruption and cowardice, when the true path is devout righteousness. The Scotanova knows better then this, seeing in the Abyss the basic route to power that is so easily available, and devastatingly seductive all the same. The common masses, as much as they may huff and puff in rebuttal, know that deep within their hearts they too long for such power, and the Scotanova is all too willing to grant it. For a price, that is.

The Scotanova becomes adept at imparting Abyss bound gifts onto those willing to take it. The process of placing a gift upon a mortal is a full round action, in which the recipient of the gift must be willing and restrained in some fashion. Upon the gift being imparted a brand, scar, or other marking is placed upon the recipients body that is indicative of his Abyssal born pact. The Scotanova may place the brand wherever he sees fit, though most often place it in hard to notice areas. The brand is approximately the size of the Scotanovas or the Recipients fist, whichever is smaller (In the event of both parties somehow lacking limbs, a fist shaped rock will do).

The Scotanova may never grant himself a Brand, though may accept it from other Scotanova's. The Scotanova may grant an amount of gifts equal to his charisma modifier (Minimum 1).

Basic
Power Addictrix Megalofiend: The Scotanova may improve a single physical or mental stat of the Recipients choice, granting a +2 Profane Bonus to it for 24 hours. In exchange the Scotanova gains an equal Profane Bonus to any stat of his choosing, so long as it is of the opposite side of the Physical/Mental Ability Score, these benefits last 24 hours aswell. However, the recipient of the gift is imbued with a fragment of the raw turmoil that is the Abyss, and must take a penalty equal to the Profane Bonus to a Mental/Physical Ability Score(s) of his choice, split up as he deems fit. For instance, the Scotanova may grant a +2 Profane bonus to a Barbarians Strength, and gain a +2 Profane Bonus to either his Charisma/Intelligence/Wisdom (But not his Strength/Dexterity/Constitution, as the Barbarian chose a Physical Ability Score). The Barbarian then chooses to split the penalty and takes a -1 Penalty to his Intelligence and Wisdom score (Again, due to him taking a Bonus to a Physical Ability Score).

This bonus increases to a +4 at Level 8, and +6 at level 13.

Arcane-Infused Abyssal Arteries: The Scotanova may improve a Recipient's Caster level by (1+1/4 Scotanova's Class Level) if they are a Caster who requires preparing his spells (In the event of Multiclassing or Gestalt, this bonus caster level only applies to spells casted through preparation). In exchange the Recipient loses a single spell slot (And the spell that is prepared with it) of his highest level and grants it to the Scotanova, who may cast it as a Spell Like ability a number of times per day equal to his class level/3 (Minimum 1). If the Recipient is a spontaneous caster, instead the Scotanova improves the DC of all of his spells by (2+ 1/2 Scotanova's Class Level), and the Spontaneous Caster loses 1 Spell Slot of his highest level. The Scotanova in return gains a single spell from the Spontaneous Casters highest level spell list, and may cast it as a Spell Like ability a number of times per day equal to his class level/3. Both of these bonuses last 24 hours, at the end of which the Scotanova loses his spell like ability and the Caster regains his spell slot

Still need to work out the 3rd basic and then polish the Advanceds. Either way I have a small list of concepts/trademarks I plan on making into Mythos, so I can check this off the list (Sort of)


Impart Demonic Gifts on willing or unwilling subject
Shoot beams of hellfire and other such nastiness, normally as Breathe Weapon
Brutalize Minds
Demonic Growth Spurt/Mutation=Evolve into Specific type of Demon(?)(Current demon list= Balor, Succubus, Dretch, Vrock, Marilith)
Create Cults, grow stronger as result

3WhiteFox3
2014-01-08, 08:33 PM
Hmm... No. I am pretty positive it will end up as that class people ask for and gets denied with a sarcastic laugh. Like Frank & K or dandwiki stuff.

To be fair, I imagine that most groups would probably do the same thing with most of the Mythos classes. I know that most of my GMs probably wouldn't want to use them.

While the higher tier base classes (such as the Wizard) can definitely end up overshadowing the other players, most groups are used to that even if they wouldn't recognize that fact. The Mythos classes on the other hand end up overshadowing the other Tier 3- classes without really even trying.

Imagine if you will a group of a Warblade, Barbarian, Crusader and Teramach, all 7th level. The Teramach is stronger and faster than the barbarian, has more flexibility than the Warblade and is tougher than the Crusader. This is of course completely intentional, but for many groups, that's probably going to be too much.

tallonRook
2014-01-08, 08:47 PM
I decided to stop working on my Mythos Hunter (which I will give details on when they are more solid, but expect a very flexible favored enemy mechanic) to start work on my Mythic Elf, who was the reason I started making the Mythos Hunter again. I prepared for this task by reading The Complete Book of Elves, which was enough to make me hate elves. Hating elves, of course, is the proper mood I wanted to be in while writing the Mythic Elf.

The sort of core attitude of the Mythic Elf is "I'm better than you, and I know it." Elves are beautiful and graceful and they have an absolutely enormous superiority complex. Everything they do is wonderful, and everything that other races do is pathetic and pitiful compared to them- in their eyes, at least. Everyone else is, well, subelf.

Here are the ideas for it.

Exceptional
-[Elven Pinnacle Specialization]Become a better elf of your subrace. Advanced manifestations make you an even better elf of your subrace, or you can get features of other subraces. In addition, you look more like the ideal of your subrace.
-[Gentle Sub-Elven Compassion]When you're around nonelves, they take a penalty to skill checks and elves take a bonus to skill checks. You can show off how awful the nonelves are to others to make them like nonelves less. The nonelves being around is critical to the elves getting bonuses to skill checks.
-[Casual Genius Learning] Something that takes advantage of elves living longer. Gives bonuses to skills.
-[Total Elven Cooperation]Something that makes elves like you more.


Fantastic
-[Awesome Purity Realization]Gain a halo, and get protection from nasty, mortal conditions.
-[Lesser Being Subjugation] Subjugate members of other races under your Boots of Elvenkind.

Legendary
-Become young again, never age, and become an outsider. When you die, you're sent to a plane of your choice.


And here is what I have done.



http://s30.postimg.org/90iu91p7l/elves.png

The Mythic Elf

It is said that elves are special among the races. Fluff text fluff text elf elf elf fluff text fluff text elves are the best fluff text.

New Feat:

The Legacy of Perfection
Prerequisites: Elf, one mythos
Choose one Mythos-granting class that you have levels in. You may treat the following Mythos as if they belonged to that class. You ignore alignment requirements for gaining [Exalted] feats. Your maximum hit points increase by 1 for every [Exalted] feat you possess.

If you somehow lose this feat, or no longer qualify for it, you cease to gain the benefits of the granted Mythos until you regain this feat or qualify for it once more.

Special: If you are a drow, you may choose to ignore alignment requirements for gaining [Vile] feats and have your maximum hit points increase by 1 for every [Vile] feat instead. But, if you’re the sort of Drow who’s taking this feat, the original bonus is probably much more relevant for you.

Exceptional Mythos
Elven Pinnacle Specialization (not even begun to be complete)
Prerequisites: -
Upon taking this mythos, your body shifts and becomes more ideal for your subrace. Your ears extend slightly, and your features become just a little more angular and just a little more idealized. Often skin becomes smoother, or its imperfections become strikingly beautiful instead of ugly. Other features depend on subrace. You are instantly recognizable as yourself, even by those who knew you before, and they may not even notice your mild transformation.

This mythos provides no initial mechanical benefits, instead relying on the manifestations for effect. You gain the manifestation based on your specific subrace.

Basic Manifestations
[I]Aquatic Elf: You gain the Amphibious special quality,
Drow:
Grey Elf:
High Elf:
Star Elf:
Wild Elf:
Wood Elf:

Advanced Manifestations
Interwoven Elven Blood: You gain another basic manifestation from above.
True Blood Purification: I don’t know, the ones above aren’t done yet. You cannot have both this and Interwoven Elven Blood (you may take Interwoven Elven Blood as often as you wish)

Note: The author will update this list to include all the fricking types of elf when they have completed the rest of this class. Seriously tho. There are like twenty types of elf with LA +0. And I’m sure there are even more elves without LA +0.
why are there so many kinds of elf

Gentle Subelven Comparison
Prerequisites: -
This is not stealing. This is a mere comparison, a realization, if you wish. Those other races are far inferior to your own, and they should be allowed to know the truth, shouldn’t they? They shouldn’t be forced to live, thinking that what they do could ever match up to what an elf can.

You gain an invisible aura 60 feet in diameter. If non elves are in this aura, any skill checks performed by them are decreased by an amount equal to twice your highest mental ability modifier, and any skill checks performed by non-elves are increased by half of the same amount. With every level you gain, the size of this aura doubles.
Two unusual effects may be noted as regards to this aura. First, any non elven craftperson in this aura makes his check to proceed on their work as if they were unpenalized. However, at the end of their work, they must make one final skill check, with a DC of the DC to make the item. If they can pass this final skill check, then the item is normal- for a non-elf, at least. If they fail, then the item they make is hideous and ruined. It is treated as if it had the broken condition, but it can never be repaired, save by an elf. The final, special check must be made if the craftsperson spent at least an hour in the aura while they were working on their project. If you somehow acquire this object, you may use it in a diplomacy check to convince others the inferiority of non-elves (or the like), and it gives this check a +5 divine bonus. You can only use one example per check.
Second, an in charge of an elven community may perform a special ritual. After walking around a settlement where most citizens are non-elves, then walking around their own settlement, they make it so that elves and non-elves in both cities gain the respective bonuses or penalties from the aura, as if they were inside of it. Most elves with this mythos are not intelligently aware of it. However, they do have some instinct that looking around a city to see the human or dwarf or whatever wares and then walking around their own will only confirm that elves are far superior to the other races.

Casual Genius Learning
Prerequisites: -
Look at the humans. An average human farmer can farm, and that’s it. He’s not a farmer and a concert pianist and a trained mage and a skilled marksman, like an elf would be. And this holds true for most of the races. Even the ones who can live as long as elves simply aren’t a smart as them. Why not?

You gain a bonus to three untrained skills equal to your highest mental ability modifier, and you can use those skills untrained. If you ever place ranks in those skills, it decreases your bonus to them by an equal amount. When you gain access to Fantastic Mythos (or, if you already have access) this bonus doubles, and when you gain access to Legendary Mythos (or, if you already have access to them) the bonus instead triples.

Total Elven Cooperation
Prerequisites:-
"we're not racist against drow because they're dark, we're racist against them because they're eeeeeevillllll"



Fantastic Mythos
Awesome Purity Realization
Prerequisites: -
Elves are naturally purer than the other races. Its a simple matter of what they are. As elves age, they can sometimes become luminescent, their spirits shining through their bodies.

A halo of light surrounds you. It does not shed true light, and is mainly for cosmetic purposes. Generally, this light is a faint white- however, depending on the individual elf, it may also be a stunning silver, bruise-grey, or an unlight of sorts, a visible, supernal darkness. While this light shines, you gain immunity to disease, poison, fatigue, exhaustion, and being sickened or nauseated.

Lesser Being Subjugation
Prerequisites: -

Legendary Mythos
Immortal Spirit Awakening
Prerequisites: Awesome Purity Realization
Death is for lesser beings. Let the others die. They should, in fact. Less of them on this earth means more room for elves- it means that you should never suffer their pathetic existence anymore.

You no longer suffer age penalties, and you will never die from old age. Upon gaining this mythos, your body changes, erasing all signs of aging past the prime of your adulthood from your body. If you are not at the prime of your adulthood yet, then you age to that point naturally and stop. Your type turns to Outsider, though you retain your elf subtype. You are treated as native to the material plane and one other. When you die of any cause, your body vanishes in a burst of light the same color as your halo, and appear in a safe place on that other plane you have chosen. If this plane regularly handles the souls of the dead, you arrive at the same place as them. If you actively worship a deity who resides on that plane, you may choose to arrive at the home of that deity. You arrive there uninjured and with all your equipment, and you may use any means to exit the plane, as usual.
The only way to permanently slay you is to kill you less than an hour after you have formed in the other plane. This does not apply when you simply choose to visit this plane- only when you come there after your death.





Anyway, I'm not that good at balance, so I would love some feedback on it! Please let me know what you think! I'm vaguely worried about the "capstone" mythos giving a benefit that's better than the capstone of most classes, but there are some prestige classes that give the same benefit two levels later, so I'm not that worried??? Plus, Mythos classes do tend to give pretty nice benefits...

vasharanpaladin
2014-01-08, 08:52 PM
*mythic elf stuff*

...Dammit, now I'm obligated to make a Mythic Dorf. :smallfrown:

commander panda
2014-01-08, 09:20 PM
ok, just thought i'd put these out there.
@tallonRook, can i suggest sticking a Thalmor (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor) on that banner? The others might work better (i don't know them) but the Thalmor are as elf supremacist as it gets. Hell, that fantastic mythos is supposedly their ultimate goal for all their members.

@Adam1949, have you looked at the dualists class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210101) by Circle of Life? It might be good for some extra inspiration.

3WhiteFox3
2014-01-08, 09:26 PM
Thank you! Those work perfectly! I can throw in a Daemon Prince from Warhammer 40k, and then Ulrezaj means I only need 2 more examples.


Abyssal Bargaining-Brutalized Fool:
In the eyes of the Paladins and Demon Hunters the Scotanova are damned to the Abyss, squandering their time in pursuit of fruitless trees and goals that will never come to fruition. Paths of power that lead to nothing but corruption and cowardice, when the true path is devout righteousness. The Scotanova knows better then this, seeing in the Abyss the basic route to power that is so easily available, and devastatingly seductive all the same. The common masses, as much as they may huff and puff in rebuttal, know that deep within their hearts they too long for such power, and the Scotanova is all too willing to grant it. For a price, that is.

The Scotanova becomes adept at imparting Abyss bound gifts onto those willing to take it. The process of placing a gift upon a mortal is a full round action, in which the recipient of the gift must be willing and restrained in some fashion. Upon the gift being imparted a brand, scar, or other marking is placed upon the recipients body that is indicative of his Abyssal born pact. The Scotanova may place the brand wherever he sees fit, though most often place it in hard to notice areas. The brand is approximately the size of the Scotanovas or the Recipients fist, whichever is smaller (In the event of both parties somehow lacking limbs, a fist shaped rock will do).

The Scotanova may never grant himself a Brand, though may accept it from other Scotanova's. The Scotanova may grant an amount of gifts equal to his charisma modifier (Minimum 1).

Basic
Power Addictrix Megalofiend: The Scotanova may improve a single physical or mental stat of the Recipients choice, granting a +2 Profane Bonus to it for 24 hours. In exchange the Scotanova gains an equal Profane Bonus to any stat of his choosing, so long as it is of the opposite side of the Physical/Mental Ability Score, these benefits last 24 hours aswell. However, the recipient of the gift is imbued with a fragment of the raw turmoil that is the Abyss, and must take a penalty equal to the Profane Bonus to a Mental/Physical Ability Score(s) of his choice, split up as he deems fit. For instance, the Scotanova may grant a +2 Profane bonus to a Barbarians Strength, and gain a +2 Profane Bonus to either his Charisma/Intelligence/Wisdom (But not his Strength/Dexterity/Constitution, as the Barbarian chose a Physical Ability Score). The Barbarian then chooses to split the penalty and takes a -1 Penalty to his Intelligence and Wisdom score (Again, due to him taking a Bonus to a Physical Ability Score).

This bonus increases to a +4 at Level 8, and +6 at level 13.

Arcane-Infused Abyssal Arteries: The Scotanova may improve a Recipient's Caster level by 1 if they are a Caster who requires preparing his spells (In the event of Multiclassing or Gestalt, this bonus caster level only applies to spells casted through preparation). In exchange the Recipient loses a single spell slot (And the spell that is prepared with it) of his highest level and grants it to the Scotanova, who may cast it as a Spell Like ability a number of times per day equal to his class level/3 (Minimum 1). If the Recipient is a spontaneous caster, instead the Scotanova improves the DC of all of his spells by 1, and the Spontaneous Caster loses 1 Spell Slot of his highest level. The Scotanova in return gains a single spell from the Spontaneous Casters highest level spell list, and may cast it as a Spell Like ability a number of times per day equal to his class level/3.

Still need to work out the 3rd basic and then polish the Advanceds. Either way I have a small list of concepts/trademarks I plan on making into Mythos, so I can check this off the list (Sort of)


Impart Demonic Gifts on willing or unwilling subject
Shoot beams of hellfire and other such nastiness, normally as Breathe Weapon
Brutalize Minds
Demonic Growth Spurt/Mutation=Evolve into Specific type of Demon(?)(Current demon list= Balor, Succubus, Dretch, Vrock, Marilith)
Create Cults, grow stronger as result
I like it so far, however, I see some possible issues. The biggest problem is that Arcane-Infused Abyssal Arteries trades one of the most important resources for a casting class to gain a very small bonus. And even then, the spontaneous caster loses far more than the prepared caster.

Take a 8th Sorcerer for example, he gets a +1 bonus to saving throw DCs but has to lose one of his 4th level spell slots, which means one less polymorph or Illusory Wall per day. That trade-off is terrible, it would be much more beneficial for him to take the Power Addictrix Megalofiend and gain a +4 bonus to his charisma which gives him a +2 bonus to saving throw DCs, +2 bonus to charisma-based skills and bonus spells.

There's also the problem of it not being clear what happens when a caster gains a new spell-casting level. The way the ability is written suggests that if the Sorcerer took the gift at level 1 he'd only have to lose a first level spell and when he gained a new spell level he wouldn't have to give it up. This is because the ability only talks about losing the spell-slot when you gain the gift, not what happens after. This is very odd as it means that the cost is greater for a higher level class, but doesn't actually gain anything better. The cost should be (at least) equivalent to what you gain.

Tychris1
2014-01-08, 09:31 PM
Oh crap, urgh I should have just written it out in the standard mythos, god dammit. It's supposed to last 24 Hours like the other Basic, it's just that I was thinking of making the third Basic manifestation work on less hours since the third manifestation is either going to be something along the lines of "Grow a monstrous appendage weapon" or "Gain bonuses to a Skill check, get the life sucked out of you in exchange". I'll fix it asap, it's temporary not permanent, on both ends.

Also, will probably scale it.

Edit: Fixed and Scaled. 20th level Scotanova can make 1st level Wizards into 7th level bosses.

commander panda
2014-01-08, 09:57 PM
ok, i said i was going to make a super-leap teramach mythos ages ago, but the abandoned sun hero (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14486371) class has one that works perfectly. So I'm just editing that (barely) for the teramach.


land breaking sky ascension

Prerequisite: Beating Feeble Gravity (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16553978&postcount=266), God Kicking Boot

fluffity fluff fluff flufftext. i'll do this part later.

Make a Jump check. Replace the number of feet you may travel with an equal number of miles. You may move up to the distance indicated by this amount. If you decide to leap over 1 mile, you create a destructive impact when you land, dealing 5d6 bludgeoning damage to everything within about (miles traveled) feet. Items that any character currently has equipped or attended do not take damage. You and anyone you are carrying are similarly exempt. This damage bypasses hardness, wrecking scenery and structures in your wake. If you decide to leap over 30 miles, the accuracy with which you do so is reduced. You land 2d6-2 miles off target in a random direction. You may subtract another 2 from this roll (to a minimum of 0) for each of the following conditions that you meet.

-You know the general area you are leaping toward, and the surrounding lands very well, having traveled among them on several occasions.
-You succeed on a Knowledge (Geography) check with a DC equal to the number of miles you are leaping, rolled after you begin the jump.
-You have at least five minutes to concentrate and focus on making your jump as accurate as possible.

If the speed at which you travel, or the duration of the leap is of any importance, assume that each mile takes about 30 seconds to traverse.


thoughts, anyone? I've never tried to make homebrew before, so I'm not sure if this older stuff balances well against the newer mythos classes.
I'm thinking this should be a fantastic mythos but i might be off. If necessary, I was thinking of removing the hardness bypass feature and adding it as an advanced manifestation called Unstoppable Force Breaks Immovable Object.

this is the exalted version of land breaking sky ascension (again, taken from the sun hero) but i think this might be in holocaus sun territory.

Sky-Shattering Daystar Cataclysm

Prerequisite:land breaking sky ascension, Jump 22 ranks

You leap high into the air, sixty miles or more, which, assuming an earth-like world, leaves you adrift between atmosphere and the terrible dark beyond. This first jump takes about fifteen minutes. There, you float for a few moments, before beginning your magnificent descent. You can choose nearly anywhere in the world, given enough familiarity to steer in that direction, and with the assumption that such a place is accessible to the sky. Your fall takes about five minutes.

When you finally strike the ground, you do so as a blazing cataclysm from the sky, dealing 20d6 bludgeoning damage and 10d6 fire damage to everything within one mile of your point of impact, the former of which bypasses Hardness, likely leaving a broken ruin in your wake. (Items that any character currently has equipped or attended do not take damage. You and anyone you are carrying are similarly exempt.) Those that take damage must make a Reflex save or be knocked prone. Finally, the area destroyed by your landing continues to burn with superheated air for about an hour afterward, dealing 1d4 fire damage every round to all who remain within.

Adam1949
2014-01-08, 10:25 PM
@Adam1949, have you looked at the dualists class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210101) by Circle of Life? It might be good for some extra inspiration.

This... this right here? Sheer awesomeness. Although, like a lot of people in that thread said, a Dvati Dualist(s) would be utter hilarity.

New Mythos! This one breaks the rules of the Mythos racials, by being a Shintai. Obviously, this makes it a Legendary Mythos.
Tantric Isolation Shintai
Prerequisite: At least 2 Mythos gained by The Legacy of the Hidden Pair
When you obtain this Mythos, you do not automatically gain its benefits. Instead, you and your twin are both struck with a sudden tiredness; and, when one sees the other or touches them, a powerful urge to sleep nearby them. Upon both twins falling asleep, something strange and pervasive alters them; ever so subtly, after they sleep for 24 hours, they awaken as a single entity, a sole body housing two souls.
The characters decide which class or classes they have levels in, as long as it equals the average of their original levels (so, if a Teramach-15 and a Kathados-15 were to do take this Mythos, they could have any combination of Teramach or Kathados levels, as long as it added up to 15 levels overall). The single being then gains the Base Attack Bonus, Saves, and other such traits from their decision. If any Mythos or other class abilities are lost this way, they may be replaced when they return to a suitable level with new abilities. The conglomerate character has the best attributes from among the component parts (For example, if the two characters above had as their arrays {20 16 18 8 8 8} and {12 16 14 18 12 8}, there attributes would now be {20 16 18 18 12 8}). In addition, any Mythos they gained from The Legacy of the Hidden Pair may be changed to any other Mythos they qualify for.
Even more beneficial, the mixed being becomes a paragon of the duo; no matter what mix of class levels they had taken, the character has all Class Skills that either twin had, and all of their Hit Dice are equal to the biggest Hit Dice of the pair (Thus, the above mix would have 15 d12 hit dice, as well as the class skills of Teramach and Kathados, and the skill points per level of the Kathados).
However, it is not all perfect. By virtue of having two minds within a single form, the now-inseparable twins must wrestle each other for control every so often. 'You' gain an Ego score equal to (10 + your class level + your Charisma modifier), as though 'you' were an intelligent item. This Ego is a representation of whichever twin is not in control at the time, and may use it to fight against any action or thought that you take that they disagree with. In addition, you must roll a Will save equal to the Ego score whenever you wake up from slumber, take more than your Ego score in damage at once, are tortured, have your twin insulted, and anything else that you and your GM agree would cause feedback issues; if you fail the save, the twin currently in charge of the body is pushed back into the subconscious, and the other twin takes over. As a side effect, you count as the alignments of both twins (if they differed).
Finally, the effects of having to share a single body are taxing, and you gain the Reflexive Psychosis feat without needing to meet its prerequisites.

Primal Fury
2014-01-08, 11:34 PM
Oh, It's all that, and more. Like I said, it's equal, or more powerful to tier 1. Optimization would shatter this class. :smallwink:
Well you certainly have piqued my interest. Do you have any idea when you might be posting it?

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-08, 11:41 PM
Well you certainly have piqued my interest. Do you have any idea when you might be posting it?

Well, it was going to be tonight, but apparently my Mythos have decided to close themselves off from my mind. I have most of the names, just not what they do.

Primal Fury
2014-01-09, 12:00 AM
Like Frank & K or dandwiki stuff.
Hey now, I like some of that stuff. Scaling feats are awesome.


I have most of the names, just not what they do.
Can we see some? I'm gettin' all hyped up over here. Don't leave me hanging.

Oh! Also, does anyone know where I might be able to find some d20 stats for hungry ghosts?

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-09, 12:14 AM
Two;

Prototype of Perfection, and Dominion of shattered bodies. :smallwink:

Draken
2014-01-09, 12:42 AM
Hey now, I like some of that stuff. Scaling feats are awesome.


Can we see some? I'm gettin' all hyped up over here. Don't leave me hanging.

Oh! Also, does anyone know where I might be able to find some d20 stats for hungry ghosts?

Oh, don't get me wrong. I like some of the Frank & K stuff. It is more that I don't agree with some of the proposed ideas.

dandwiki has no excuse, however. It is just all over the place.

VoodooPaladin
2014-01-09, 01:17 AM
Frank & K's stuff was never designed to be used all at once. Scaling feats are great - but when stacked onto a Fighter creatively multiclassed into Monk and Samurai, packing Fiend feats and one-level dips into front-loaded PrCs, you get some kind of horror that 100%s the SGT, all day, every day.



Anyway, I'm not that good at balance, so I would love some feedback on it! Please let me know what you think! I'm vaguely worried about the "capstone" mythos giving a benefit that's better than the capstone of most classes, but there are some prestige classes that give the same benefit two levels later, so I'm not that worried??? Plus, Mythos classes do tend to give pretty nice benefits...

Wow, my Mythos Elf idea was entirely different from yours!
...mostly because yours is complete, whereas mine never escaped the idea stage. I recall it had Tassadar, Galadriel, and Peter Pan as its inspirations.

Anyway, your Legendary Mythos isn't broken at all. The capstones of most classes are bragging rights, don't worry about it. It looks to be no more abusive than contingent heal in practice. I'd actually advise to think about adding a little bit more to it - Legendary Mythos are gained at 13th level, where you should be able to compete with small empires by yourself, without significant effort or foresight on your part.

Tacitus
2014-01-09, 02:39 AM
Hmm... so existing Mythos Classes all have Full BAB and all good saves. Is there really anything to prevent a change to this? I've half a mind to give my Occasus Medium BAB and Poor Reflex.

GreaserFish
2014-01-09, 02:47 AM
I'm highly likely to abandon the Aethenos at this point, due to the lack of interest. If anyone can use any of the Mythos I've made for it or the key concepts, feel free to use them. At this point, I'm about ready to give up on the poor man's Heirodule.

ben-zayb
2014-01-09, 02:50 AM
Hmm...
The Aplistoshttp://i.imgur.com/R7pixEb.jpg
"I am inevitable. I am... Destiny. I am Galactus and I hunger." -Galactus, Hunger

Mortals are beings forged from the infinite imaginations of the Gods. They are weak, fragile, and dependent on sustenance; sustenance that keeps mortals alive, sustenance that only the God themselves provide, and sustenance that acted as a safeguard to keep mortal powers in check.

But the Gods, even with their vast wisdom, had an oversight. Hunger, being one of the mortal's primordial needs, became a powerful driving force that gave birth to the bereft, the glutton, the insatiable—the Aplistos. The Aplistos is the deprived, the one eternally seeking for more, and the one yearning for the fulfillment that it will never achieve.

Fantastic Mythos
Ingestion-Procreation Matrimony
Prerequisite: -

Your base urges to sate hunger and to reproduce are perpetually entwined.

As a full-round action, you may choose to completely swallow a corpse that you or your allies have previously killed for the past 24 hours. The previous creature from which the corpse is taken must have no more hit dice than your own at the time of its death, and it must have no abilities or Type that gives it no need to eat. The corpse itself must be intact, and have a true anatomy (as defined in the Animate Dead spell). After an hour of being nourished and immersed in your own essences, you regurgitate the reborn body into a Scion. This is an instantaneous effect.

A Scion has the same statistics as a zombie made from the swallowed corpse, with the following exceptions: 1. its previous types and subtypes, are retained (although related traits are still changed as described from the zombie template), 2. its Constitution changes to 10, and 3. the hit dice are raised to d10s instead.

A Scion serves loyally and obeys your orders to the best of its abilities, can neither use nor gain experience points, has no memory of its previous life and is indeed a separate entity (allowing Raise Dead spells and the like to be successfully used without destroying your scion), and for all intents and purposes is now considered your own offspring.

If reduced to 0 hit point or lower, or after one day per Aplistos level after being reborn with this mythos, a Scion reverts back to being a corpse, although it can no longer be used for Ingestion-Procreation Matrimony.

No matter how many times you use this mythos, you can control only 2 HD worth of creatures per Aplistos level at a time. If you exceed this number, all the newly reborn Scions fall under your control, while any excess Scions you control are reduced to 0 hit point.

Advanced
Revolting Aftertaste Retention: A Scion may be produced retaining one trait/feature of your choice from the Scion's previous body:
Speed
Base Attack Bonus
Special Attacks (choose one)
Special Qualities (choose one or remove the Single Actions Only (Ex) quality)
Ability Score (choose one)
Feat (choose one, and must meet the prerequisite)
For every four Alistos levels you have (rounded down), you may choose another trait/feature to be retained. Spellcasting can't ever be retained

Broken-Down Progeny Repurposing: A Scion may be produced having your choice of an Excellency or an Exceptional Mythos taken from the Aplistos class. Any Scion must still meet the prerequisites of a Mythos to acquire it. For every four Aplistos levels you have (rounded down), you may add another Excellency or Exceptional Mythos of your choice to Scions you produce.

Potent-Seed Longevity: Scions you produce no longer revert back to being a corpse unless reduced to 0 hit point or lower. Additionally, for every ten Aplistos levels you have (rounded down), double the maximum HD limit of controlled Scions. What do you guys think? Weird? Cliche? Lacking an identity/niche? Overlaps with the Teramach?

And how about the banner? Any better suggestions from other media? Unicron? Majin Buu? Katamari Damacy?! :smalltongue:

THEChanger
2014-01-09, 02:54 AM
I'm highly likely to abandon the Aethenos at this point, due to the lack of interest. If anyone can use any of the Mythos I've made for it or the key concepts, feel free to use them. At this point, I'm about ready to give up on the poor man's Heirodule.

Hmmm.

I had ideas regarding the sort of conviction before everything else Mythos class. If you're really sure you want to put aside the Aethenos, I might pick up where you left off? I had ideas for two more Mythos. Fixed Celestial Position Mantra and Pity-Breaking Mercy Rejection. Though the first might be an Excellency. I'm still piecing things together in my brain.

GreaserFish
2014-01-09, 02:57 AM
Hmmm.

I had ideas regarding the sort of conviction before everything else Mythos class. If you're really sure you want to put aside the Aethenos, I might pick up where you left off? I had ideas for two more Mythos. Fixed Celestial Position Mantra and Pity-Breaking Mercy Rejection. Though the first might be an Excellency. I'm still piecing things together in my brain.

Oh wow, I'm honestly surprised anyone responded to that. Yes, go ahead. Do whatever you want with it. In fact, I'd probably be willing to collaborate with you just so I don't feel like I'm talking to an empty room when I work on it. That's the main reason I want to set it aside, after all.

THEChanger
2014-01-09, 03:09 AM
Oh wow, I'm honestly surprised anyone responded to that. Yes, go ahead. Do whatever you want with it. In fact, I'd probably be willing to collaborate with you just so I don't feel like I'm talking to an empty room when I work on it. That's the main reason I want to set it aside, after all.

Well, I'm about to head off for the night, but I'm going to type-vomit a bit of my ideas.

-Instead of points of Conviction/Guilt, the two being alternating states. Sort of how Teremach is either in Rage or not, the Aethenos is either in Conviction or Guilt. Some Mythos have alternate affects/manifestations depending on which state the Aethenos is in-Conviction being a more sure, steady, defensive state, Guilt being a more reckless, offensive-oriented state. Changing state should be defined by the Code-when the Aethenos has faith in the Code, it is in Conviction, and when that faith is shaken or challenge, it enters Guilt until it is restored. Mechanics for the change are currently still being thought about.

-Fixed Celestial Position Mantra: the Aethenos does not move if it does not want to. Bullrush, fails. Teleportation effects, fails. Possible Guilt manifestation: the Aethenos cannot be stopped. Slow, fails. Dimensional Anchor, fails. Things like that.

-Pity-Breaking Mercy Rejection: Gains benefits for coup-de-gracing enemies who are opposed to the Aethenos' Code. Possible Guilt manifestation: Gains bonuses against an enemy who has shown the Aethenos mercy, especially if it doesn't make sense in the context of the Code.

-Javert from Les Miserables should be a source of inspiration. "I am the Law, and the Law is not mocked."

GreaserFish
2014-01-09, 03:40 AM
Well, I'm about to head off for the night, but I'm going to type-vomit a bit of my ideas.
Thanks again for giving me any attention at all. I'll look a bit into all of your ideas.


-Instead of points of Conviction/Guilt, the two being alternating states. Sort of how Teremach is either in Rage or not, the Aethenos is either in Conviction or Guilt. Some Mythos have alternate affects/manifestations depending on which state the Aethenos is in-Conviction being a more sure, steady, defensive state, Guilt being a more reckless, offensive-oriented state. Changing state should be defined by the Code-when the Aethenos has faith in the Code, it is in Conviction, and when that faith is shaken or challenge, it enters Guilt until it is restored. Mechanics for the change are currently still being thought about.
Might work with Conviction and Guilt being on opposite ends of a single scale. As much as I wanted them to be counter-balancing but not opposed, I like where you're taking this idea.


-Fixed Celestial Position Mantra: the Aethenos does not move if it does not want to. Bullrush, fails. Teleportation effects, fails. Possible Guilt manifestation: the Aethenos cannot be stopped. Slow, fails. Dimensional Anchor, fails. Things like that.
Hmm. On the one hand, I like it. On the other hand, it seems a little iffy. Might be able to work it in somewhere further along the line.


-Pity-Breaking Mercy Rejection: Gains benefits for coup-de-gracing enemies who are opposed to the Aethenos' Code. Possible Guilt manifestation: Gains bonuses against an enemy who has shown the Aethenos mercy, especially if it doesn't make sense in the context of the Code.
I actually really like this one. I can very easily see a way to work it into my current vague ideas about the fluff for the class.


-Javert from Les Miserables should be a source of inspiration. "I am the Law, and the Law is not mocked."
Might replace Simon with this guy. I keep missing obvious sources of inspiration, even from things I have actually seen.

Hell, while i'm at it, I might as well post some of that vague fluff I mentioned.


The Aethenos
In the beginning, there was turmoil. The Lawgivers and the Primordials clashed again and again in their efforts to settle the debate over who would lay claim to the young universe. No matter how hard or how many times the Lawgivers hit their enemy, no true end could be brought to their hated foes.

In a ploy for victory, they collected the hatred, violence, and fury of a captured enemy. Alloying it with law, conviction, and glorious purpose, a spear was wrought from the materials, and with it, a Primordial was slain. It was not merely a story of the beast, but a true death in the Gods' reality.

All of existence shook at that moment, save for the spear itself, resolute in its purpose. When the corpse moved, the spear ached to strike at it once more, felling the beast again and again until the end of everything, should it be needed. Instead, the Lawgivers saw fit to imprison the hideous thing within the tapestry of death, keeping it as far from their newly won reality as they could. In spite of their greatest efforts, however, the spear remembered.

It remembered that a foe remained, its body defying the will of the Lawgivers and moving of its own accord. It felt hatred toward the creature, fury at its impotence, it yearned for violence. But it steeled itself with its conviction to serve the Lawgivers, its law to obey its masters, its glory through purpose. But it no longer had a purpose.

Unbeknownst to the victorious Gods and the broken Titans, the spear transcended the boundaries of itself, shattering into a million pieces that showered the universe. Creatures that once would not move despite the Gods' best urging found themselves walking, crawling, climbing, and fighting for their survival. The many sentient beings that lingered on the surface of the Great Wheel found within themselves a new conviction to follow whatever purposes seemed best.

But some received more. More than powder, a shard of the Spear itself embedded itself in their souls. These beings felt a need to punish those who would oppose their glorious purpose with violence and death. They found fury at any who would deny their conviction its due. They found hatred for any who would disobey their law.

From the broken remains of the first tool of death came the seeds of zealotry, and the zealots basked in their arrogance. They named themselves Judges and took up arms against all they deemed unworthy.

Feels a bit long, but I actually like this. Xefas, I hope you don't mind that I elaborated a bit on the story of the Spear that first slew a Titan.

GreaserFish
2014-01-09, 03:56 AM
Okay, sorry about the double post, but I feel bad about feeling bad because of a lack of attention and Ben happened to go a bit ignored because of my drama.


Hmm...
-Snipped Aplistos-
What do you guys think? Weird? Cliche? Lacking an identity/niche? Overlaps with the Teramach?

Not sure how I feel about the Scion concept, but I think hunger as a driving force doesn't overlap much with the Teramach, save for a few Mythos here and there. Granted, you could argue that all the Mythos classes so far have some overlap if you look at individual Mythos. I think it is conceptually distinct, is what I'm trying to say. I'd like to see where you take it.

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-09, 03:57 AM
Hmm...
The Aplistoshttp://i.imgur.com/ENuLFD8.jpg
"I am inevitable. I am... Destiny. I am Galactus and I hunger." -Galactus, Hunger

Mortals are beings forged from the infinite imaginations of the Gods. They are weak, fragile, and dependent on sustenance; sustenance that keeps mortals alive, sustenance that only the God themselves provide, and sustenance that acted as a safeguard to keep mortal powers in check.

But the Gods, even with their vast wisdom, had an oversight. Hunger, being one of the mortal's primordial needs, became a powerful driving force that gave birth to the bereft, the glutton, the insatiable—the Aplistos. The Aplistos is the deprived, the one eternally seeking for more, and the one yearning for the fulfillment that it will never achieve.

Fantastic Mythos
Ingestion-Procreation Matrimony
Prerequisite: -

Your base urges to sate hunger and to reproduce are perpetually entwined.

As a full-round action, you may choose to completely swallow a corpse. The previous creature from which the corpse is taken must have no more hit dice than your own at the time of its death, and have no abilities/traits that removes its needs to eat. The corpse itself must be intact, and have a true anatomy (as defined in the Animate Dead spell). After an hour of being nourished and immersed in your own essences, you regurgitate the reborn body into a Scion. This is an instantaneous effect.

A Scion has the statistics of a zombie made from the respective swallowed corpse, with the following exceptions: 1. the changes to the base creature's "Size and Type" is ignored, 2. its Constitution changes to 10, and 3. its hit die are raised to d12s despite not being an undead.

A Scion is effectively an extension of your abilities and powers; it serves loyally and obeys your orders to the best of its abilities, can neither use nor gain experience points, has no memory of its previous life and is indeed a separate entity (allowing Raise Dead spells and the like to be successfully used without destroying your scion), and additionally for all intents and purposes is now considered your own offspring. If reduced to 0 hit point or lower, or after one day per Aplistos level after being reborn with this mythos, a Scion reverts back to being a corpse, although it can no longer be used for Ingestion-Procreation Matrimony.

No matter how many times you use this mythos, you can control only 2 HD worth of creatures per Aplistos level at a time. If you exceed this number, all the newly reborn Scions fall under your control, and any excess Scions controlled become uncontrolled.

Advanced
Revolting Aftertaste Retention: Scions may be produced retaining a number of previous class levels (i.e. base class, prestige class, monster class, and racial paragon) up to a maximum of one-fourth your Aplistos level, rounded down. They must still meet all prerequisites in order to retain the class. note: it still has a Constitution score of 10, no Intelligence score, a Wisdom score of 10, and a Charisma score of 1, in the case of classes who uses the aforementioned abilities

Broken-Down Progeny Repurposing: Scions may be produced having a number of Aplistos class levels up to a maximum of one-fourth your Aplistos levels, rounded down, if they had an equal number of previous class levels. The hit die increase isn't counted for the purpose of gaining bonus feats, and a Scion can never select this Mythos. You can't use Broken-Down Progeny Repurposing in conjunction with Revolting Aftertaste Retention.

Potent-Seed Longevity: Scions you produce no longer revert back to being a corpse unless reduced to 0 hit point or lower.

What do you guys think? Weird? Cliche? Lacking an identity/niche? Overlaps with the Teramach?

@.@
Can we be friends?

ben-zayb
2014-01-09, 04:13 AM
Okay, sorry about the double post, but I feel bad about feeling bad because of a lack of attention and Ben happened to go a bit ignored because of my drama.Wut? It's cool, man! No prob. :smalltongue:

Not sure how I feel about the Scion concept, but I think hunger as a driving force doesn't overlap much with the Teramach, save for a few Mythos here and there. Granted, you could argue that all the Mythos classes so far have some overlap if you look at individual Mythos. I think it is conceptually distinct, is what I'm trying to say. I'd like to see where you take it.
Yeah... actually, that's probably the worst example to make mechanics-wise. The Mythos was partly inspired both by Mori Kouran's (Flame of Recca) Tendo Jigoku and Larfleeze's orange lantern "recruitment" ability. Not necessarily originally a hunger-based ability, although both characters aren't exactly such bad examples of those who exhibit inhuman cravings for something.
@.@
Can we be friends?What, aren't we already? *oh god, I have a bad feeling about this*
:smalltongue:

Tacitus
2014-01-09, 04:28 AM
Ideas! I have them. Rough ones, but still good. (In relation to my paranoid death fearing Mythos Healer)

A Mythos that lets you see how close a creature is to death, an object to falling apart, or energy to dissipating. Something akin to Shinigami Eyes crossed with Deathwatch I suppose.

Impending Fatality Panorama: Quick flashes of how objects and ongoing events in the area could contribute to a creature’s death. This includes wielded weapons, passing wagons, boulders that could topple down the mountain and crush you, etc. Provides a means of avoidance, either as a flash of insight for an action not to take or as a buff to AC or saves vs the item or occurrence.
Edit: Probably ramps up Paranoia really hard, with advanced manifestations increasing the number of targets you could focus upon and another to reduce the strain on your sanity (ie, less Paranoia).
Edit2: Oooh! Maybe single/few target for free, add additional targeting factors for Paranoia bumps.

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-09, 04:29 AM
What, aren't we already? *oh god, I have a bad feeling about this*
:smalltongue:

Well, Galactus would fit upon my roster nicely, but I'll leave him to you.

You should. :smallamused:

Adam1949
2014-01-09, 12:32 PM
I have just counted up my Mythos for the Dvari, and realized that I only need two more to make it up-to-standards. And so, here are the final two Mythos for all your twin-GM-headache needs!

Exceptional Mythos
Ettinform Magus Litany
You gain the Energy Gestalt (CM) and Spell Rehearsal (RotD) as bonus feats. In addition, if both you and your twin cast the proper spells in order, you may count said castings as though it came sequentially from a single caster. For example if you were to cast an Acid spell, and your twin then cast a Fire spell, your twin would be able to make use of the Acrid Fumes tactical maneuver as though they themselves had cast the two spells.
Finally, the twins may make use of a special technique in order to combine their magical strength. Both twins may concentrate on a single spell, using up both of their turns. If this is used on a spell which has a casting time shorter than a full-round action, it becomes a full-round action. When the spell is cast, it is treated in all ways as though it were cast by a spellcaster one level higher than the highest-level twin. If both twins are spellcasters of the same class, this bonus increases to being cast by someone two levels higher.
Fantastic Mythos
Blaring Harmonic Teamwork
Choose a single skill that is a class skill for you. Your twin may treat this skill as a class skill no matter what class they are in, and they gain a +3 circumstance bonus to it as well. If you are within 10 feet per character level of them, this bonus doubles. If you are physically touching them, this bonus instead triples.
In addition, choose a single spell, martial maneuver, or mystery that you know. Your twin may use this as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1/day). If you are in physical contact with them, they may use it at-will.

So, how does it look? That's 7 Mythos total.

vasharanpaladin
2014-01-09, 02:13 PM
And how about the banner? Any better suggestions from other media? Unicron? Majin Buu? Katamari Damacy?! :smalltongue:

The Colossal Titan doesn't eat people, try a different one... maybe the Grinning Titan that ate Eren's mum, or the Bearded Titan that ate Eren?

Eva-01 ate the Fourteenth Angel (and Shinji) in-series, dunno if that counts here... Oh! How about Sauron, the God of Hunger? (http://th05.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2011/353/6/f/primal_rage__sauron_by_busasami-d4jjfj9.jpg)

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-09, 04:51 PM
Question, anyone here willing to read through my class and make sure none of the Mythos appear too powerful/weak at the levels presented?

vasharanpaladin
2014-01-09, 05:00 PM
Question, anyone here willing to read through my class and make sure none of the Mythos appear too powerful/weak at the levels presented?

Just post it, easier on all involved. :smallconfused:

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-09, 05:02 PM
Just post it, easier on all involved. :smallconfused:

I'd personally rather not. At most I'd like one person to see it before it gets finished and posted as a finished class. (Or one looking for C&C)

Xefas
2014-01-09, 05:20 PM
Hmm... so existing Mythos Classes all have Full BAB and all good saves. Is there really anything to prevent a change to this? I've half a mind to give my Occasus Medium BAB and Poor Reflex.

"Full base attack bonus and all good saves" has been a deliberate design choice for each of the three classes I've presented, and is not a universal rule.



Feels a bit long, but I actually like this. Xefas, I hope you don't mind that I elaborated a bit on the story of the Spear that first slew a Titan.

I don't mind at all. I think you did an excellent job.

VoodooPaladin
2014-01-09, 06:02 PM
What do you guys think? Weird? Cliche? Lacking an identity/niche? Overlaps with the Teramach?

And how about the banner? Any better suggestions from other media? Unicron? Majin Buu? Katamari Damacy?! :smalltongue:

Kirby. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirby_(character)) Also, Quina Quen, (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Quina_Quen) the Sarlacc, (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sarlacc) and this thing. (http://furiousfanboys.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/wow-sarlaac.jpg) For more metaphorical Hunger, try the Zerg Swarm (http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Zerg) and the Borg. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_(Star_Trek))

So yes, I think there's plenty to work with without stepping into Teramach territory.

ben-zayb
2014-01-09, 06:23 PM
The Colossal Titan doesn't eat people, try a different one... maybe the Grinning Titan that ate Eren's mum, or the Bearded Titan that ate Eren?

Eva-01 ate the Fourteenth Angel (and Shinji) in-series, dunno if that counts here... Oh! How about Sauron, the God of Hunger? (http://th05.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2011/353/6/f/primal_rage__sauron_by_busasami-d4jjfj9.jpg)Well, titan shifters normally don't, but he technically *did* eat that mook with the 3D gear. But you're right in that I should change it to a real titan, since that's more to the spirit of the class (fan theories nonwithstanding).I like Sauron and what he reps! Let's see if I could squeeze him in the banner.
Kirby. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirby_(character)) Also, Quina Quen, (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Quina_Quen) the Sarlacc, (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sarlacc) and this thing. (http://furiousfanboys.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/wow-sarlaac.jpg) For more metaphorical Hunger, try the Zerg Swarm (http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Zerg) and the Borg. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_(Star_Trek))

So yes, I think there's plenty to work with without stepping into Teramach territory.Thanks for the suggestions! I'm not sure if I should include the metaphorical hunger without the literal one, since that may stray too far to what I envisioned.

I hear Kirby all the time, but didn't know he's that awesome. I might actually rearrange the banner just so he's next to Galactus! I'd squeeze in Quina Quen too, if I wasn't set on an eight-character representation banner.

vasharanpaladin
2014-01-09, 06:50 PM
I hear Kirby all the time, but didn't know he's that awesome.

Dude went on a rampage across Dreamland because SOMEONE STOLE HIS CAKE. Don't mess with the pink thing. :smallamused:

Kazyan
2014-01-09, 07:06 PM
Dude went on a rampage across Dreamland because SOMEONE STOLE HIS CAKE. Don't mess with the pink thing. :smallamused:

Summarizing here: Kirby killed what was pretty much the abstract concept of nightmares because it was being a rowdy neighbor.

Primal Fury
2014-01-09, 07:24 PM
Question, anyone here willing to read through my class and make sure none of the Mythos appear too powerful/weak at the levels presented?

I'm totally down for that, if you haven't sent it out already.

Adam1949
2014-01-10, 03:18 PM
I just had a fun idea for another Mythos race, one that a lot of people like. Honestly, I'm not sure how it would work for the likes of, say, the Teramach or the Olethrofex, but I'm sure we'll be able to work something out with it.

I present to you, the iconics of the latest Mythos race...
http://i.imgur.com/Km5ZgX5.jpg

vasharanpaladin
2014-01-10, 04:24 PM
I present to you, the iconics of the latest Mythos race...
http://i.imgur.com/Km5ZgX5.jpg

I'll see your alleged mythic warforged and raise you mine:
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii59/vasharanpaladin/InevitablesMythosBanner.png (http://s261.photobucket.com/user/vasharanpaladin/media/InevitablesMythosBanner.png.html)

:smalltongue:

Adam1949
2014-01-10, 05:46 PM
Removed, moved to a separate thread so as to make it easier to find and link to.

vasharanpaladin
2014-01-10, 05:49 PM
...I would start by reminding you of the difference between "there," "their" and "they're."

Xefas
2014-01-10, 06:09 PM
I'll see your alleged mythic warforged and raise you mine:

I call?


http://i.imgur.com/snZcK3Q.png

"Go go gadget power-set-swapper!"

Primal Fury
2014-01-10, 06:39 PM
Honestly, I'm not sure how it would work for the likes of, say, the Teramach or the Olethrofex, but I'm sure we'll be able to work something out with it.
Why? Two out of three of those have organic, squishy parts to them, and possibly souls. Sounds like they'd work fine to me.

And I've made a few little changes to the Tagati (new name with African roots!) but I'm still looking for a quote from a character. All I've got now is “One never learns how the witch became wicked, or whether that was the right choice for her~is it ever the right choice? Does the devil ever struggle to be good again, or if so is he not a devil?” But it feels kinda... meh?

Here's the proposed thread title (which I do like) and new picture: “Never put your faith in a Prince. When you require a miracle, trust in a Witch.”


http://s27.postimg.org/jzsgt86vn/Tagati_Iconic_Characters.png

I'm messing around with a core ability for them, but it sounds a bit... wibbly wobbly (?) in my head. It's essentially a sort of alchemy that has changing effects based on the ingredients you use. Not regular ingredients of course, more like "the heart of a madman" or "brined cats paw", stuff you're not gonna find in some orcs backpack... most of the time. Each ingredient has different effects on the potion, but the very core of it (the Catalyst), governs what the potion DOES. This is also how poisons, poultices, and other magical liquids would be made.

Does that sounds too complicated?

Adam1949
2014-01-10, 06:54 PM
Why? Two out of three of those have organic, squishy parts to them, and possibly souls. Sounds like they'd work fine to me.

That is true. I'm just worried since I'm not too familiar with how Construct (Living) works. Can they be afflicted with a Rage effect? Can they become undead? Eh, I'm sure I'll find something to work with.



And I've made a few little changes to the Tagati (new name with African roots!) but I'm still looking for a quote from a character. All I've got now is “One never learns how the witch became wicked, or whether that was the right choice for her~is it ever the right choice? Does the devil ever struggle to be good again, or if so is he not a devil?” But it feels kinda... meh?


I'm not sure how well-fitting it is, but here's something I found.
"When they're alive, you can enjoy watching them struggle. When they're dead, you can enjoy tearing out their guts. Tales are things you get to enjoy twice." - Bernkastel, Umineko no Naku Koro Ni


I'm messing around with a core ability for them, but it sounds a bit... wibbly wobbly (?) in my head. It's essentially a sort of alchemy that has changing effects based on the ingredients you use. Not regular ingredients of course, more like "the heart of a madman" or "brined cats paw", stuff you're not gonna find in some orcs backpack... most of the time. Each ingredient has different effects on the potion, but the very core of it (the Catalyst), governs what the potion DOES. This is also how poisons, poultices, and other magical liquids would be made.

Does that sounds too complicated?
Nah, that doesn't sound very complicated at all. I think the main concern I'd have with it is exactly how a Tagati is going to obtain their supplies. However, I've already got something from good ol' Norse myth with which to make a Mythos.

Gleipnir, the rope that bound Fenrir to his subterranean prison. It was forged from the following ingredients: The sound of a cat's paw, the beard of a woman, the roots of a mountain, the sinews of a bear, the breath of a fish, and the spittle of a bird.

Primal Fury
2014-01-10, 07:03 PM
That is true. I'm just worried since I'm not too familiar with how Construct (Living) works. Can they be afflicted with a Rage effect? Can they become undead? Eh, I'm sure I'll find something to work with.
Oh that's a good point. Hm... Well at least they can still be Teramachs!


I'm not sure how well-fitting it is, but here's something I found.
"When they're alive, you can enjoy watching them struggle. When they're dead, you can enjoy tearing out their guts. Tales are things you get to enjoy twice." - Bernkastel, Umineko no Naku Koro Ni
Mmmm... What is that from?


Nah, that doesn't sound very complicated at all. I think the main concern I'd have with it is exactly how a Tagati is going to obtain their supplies. However, I've already got something from good ol' Norse myth with which to make a Mythos.

Gleipnir, the rope that bound Fenrir to his subterranean prison. It was forged from the following ingredients: The sound of a cat's paw, the beard of a woman, the roots of a mountain, the sinews of a bear, the breath of a fish, and the spittle of a bird.
In some cases, they can make their own ingredients, or the sources of them anyway. There will be Mythos that drive people into a horrible rage, and if they die while under the effects of it, then boom, you've got yourself a madman's heart (and a fresh cauldron if you have the mythos I'll be posting soon). As they get stronger though, they will require more esoteric ingredients such as the ones you mentioned, but I'm sure I'll figure something out.

Draken
2014-01-10, 07:13 PM
Why? Two out of three of those have organic, squishy parts to them, and possibly souls. Sounds like they'd work fine to me.

And I've made a few little changes to the Tagati (new name with African roots!) but I'm still looking for a quote from a character. All I've got now is “One never learns how the witch became wicked, or whether that was the right choice for her~is it ever the right choice? Does the devil ever struggle to be good again, or if so is he not a devil?” But it feels kinda... meh?

Here's the proposed thread title (which I do like) and new picture: “Never put your faith in a Prince. When you require a miracle, trust in a Witch.”


http://s27.postimg.org/jzsgt86vn/Tagati_Iconic_Characters.png

I'm messing around with a core ability for them, but it sounds a bit... wibbly wobbly (?) in my head. It's essentially a sort of alchemy that has changing effects based on the ingredients you use. Not regular ingredients of course, more like "the heart of a madman" or "brined cats paw", stuff you're not gonna find in some orcs backpack... most of the time. Each ingredient has different effects on the potion, but the very core of it (the Catalyst), governs what the potion DOES. This is also how poisons, poultices, and other magical liquids would be made.

Does that sounds too complicated?

You could make the "exotic ingredients" Basic Manifestations of a Mythos that each have a special effect and require items that fit a certain criterion in some fashion, some items could fit the bill in simple and direct manners but making it clear that players are encouraged to make completely deranged interpretations simply to grab some random piece of crap from the sidewalk, such as the dry turd of a disgraced magnate and make a Potion of Shapechange out of it.

Primal Fury
2014-01-10, 07:40 PM
Ya see, that's the problem I'm having. I don't know if I want it to be straight up item creation, or a "Mythos in a bottle" type thing. Which sounds better to you guys, cuz I'm kinda stumped right now.

Draken
2014-01-10, 07:53 PM
Ya see, that's the problem I'm having. I don't know if I want it to be straight up item creation, or a "Mythos in a bottle" type thing. Which sounds better to you guys, cuz I'm kinda stumped right now.

I would say make them not item creation as usual, just specific powers stored in a token that anyone can use if they get their hands on it.

Primal Fury
2014-01-10, 08:44 PM
I would say make them not item creation as usual, just specific powers stored in a token that anyone can use if they get their hands on it.
Hmmm... And that would help with the whole deal-making aspect of the class. It's pretty much exactly what Ursula did to Ariel. She gave her a Mythos, and had other Mythos that said "If a certain thing is not accomplished in a certain amount of time, the magic of this Mythos polymorphs the user into a pitful eel-thing useful for making alchemical substances."

Thank you Draken. :smallwink:

Adam1949
2014-01-10, 11:20 PM
Mmmm... What is that from?

Visual novel called Umineko no Naku Koro Ni. It's about a group of normal humans trying to out-smart reality-warping 'witches'. Bernkastel is one of them, and is probably the cruelest of them all. The witches in that series are very heavy on the rules and on wordplay, so it might show some inspiration. The art in the original is atrocious, but the anime is meh. Oh well, whichever is the lesser of two evils.

Also, finally finished up the Dvati, and I have it in it's own thread now. Hopefully, from the advice of others, I've managed to make it actually decent as opposed to the pile of strange it was before.

Primal Fury
2014-01-11, 01:05 AM
Alright, I got myself my first Mythos. And I'm not gonna lie, it seems like it does a lot by itself, even though much of it is in the Advanced Manifestations. Here you go:


See my later post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16770650&postcount=169) for an updated version.


Cauldron Bubble would also create exotic ingredients after the target dies, but I need to figure out what those are first.

Draken
2014-01-11, 01:21 AM
Alright, I got myself my first Mythos. And I'm not gonna lie, it seems like it does a lot by itself, even though much of it is in the Advanced Manifestations. Here you go:

Boiling Corpse-Cauldron Catalyst:
Prerequisites: 4 ranks in Craft (Alchemy)

The gods made so many mistakes when crafting their mortal children; the orcs are stupid, elves are frail, and humans aren't particularly good at anything. But in one facet of their construction, the gods outdid themselves: the liquids. Mortal bodies are filled with so many biles and secretions, making them playgrounds for any alchemist with the stomach to set the process in motion. Your blood, your black, foul, putrid blood, bestowed upon you by your Hag Mothers is all you need to tap into the secrets of these pitiful sacks of meat.

You gain the disturbing ability to turn dead bodies into complete alchemy labs by pouring a few drops of your blood in the corpses mouth. What follows, few have the stomach for; the corpse spasms, almost as if it means to rise up once again. The body bloats and swells, its stomach finally bursting with a sickening pop. The sludge left behind makes the perfect catalyst for any alchemical mixture imaginable, allowing the creation of poisons with Craft (Alchemy) at no penalty, and providing a bonus on all Craft (Alchemy) rolls equal to half your class level.

In addition, you gain Grenadier (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/grenadier--1321/) and Mad Alchemist (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/mad-alchemist--1812/) as bonus feats, using your Intelligence modifier as the bonus on attack and damage rolls on the former.

Basic
Double, Double: You produce twice as much when creating alchemical mixtures

Advanced
Toil and Trouble: With a hiss and a whispered curse, you exude a pale green mist that infects your foes with doubt and weakness. You gain a 10-foot cone breath attack, rendering anyone within it Fatigued, and reduces movement per round by 10 feet; this effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier. The targets get a Will saving throw to resist this effect, the DC of which is (10 + 1/2 class level + Charisma Modifier). This attack can only be used once every 1d4 rounds.

Fire Burn: Your command of the dark power flowing through your veins has gifted you with the ability to set things ablaze with nothing but a hateful glare. You gain a gaze attack out to 60 feet that sets unattended objects on fire. With creatures you must roll a ranged touch attack with an attack bonus equal to your Charisma modifier; if the attack hits, the target immediately takes (1d6 + Charisma Modifier) damage and catches fire. Each round thereafter, the target must roll to put out the fire. Even when the fire is put out, the creature smokes for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier, blanketing an area 30 feet around them in a think smog that offers everyone within it 20% concealment. The ghostly embers continue to cling to the target, preventing them from benefiting from the concealment. This attack can only be used once every 1d4 rounds.

Cauldron Bubble: It is not befitting of a witch to be unprepared, so has each step led to the mastery of priming your cauldrons. You gain a melee touch attack that boils the targets blood, driving them into a terrible rage. This touch requires both a Will and Fortitude saving throw, at DCs of (10 + 1/2 class level + Charisma Modifier). If the targets fails the Will slave, then they are driven to a rage (as a barbarians rage), attacking the nearest creature other than the Tagati for the first round, than any other creature for the next (Charisma Modifier) rounds. If the target fails the Fortitude save, they take one Constitution damage, and another point of damage each round they fail their saving throw. If the target dies while their blood boils, they corpse bursts as though they were primed by Boiling Corpse-Cauldron Catalyst, and cuts all crafting times for items made with Craft (Alchemy) in half. If the target is suffering from the effects of Toil and Trouble, they take a -2 penalty to their Will save, while if the target is on fire or smoking as a result of Fire Burn, they take a -2 penalty to their Fortitude saves for as long as they retain either conditions. This attack can only be used once every 1d4 rounds.


Cauldron Bubble would also create exotic ingredients after the target dies, but I need to figure out what those are first.

I am presuming that the non-mythos class features of the class deal with material costs, otherwise the Mythos needs to list how much gold worth of raw materials the corpses provide.

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-11, 03:42 AM
Behold.

The Archansin!

http://uppix.com/f-Archansin52d1040100151863.png

Primal Fury
2014-01-11, 10:55 AM
I am presuming that the non-mythos class features of the class deal with material costs, otherwise the Mythos needs to list how much gold worth of raw materials the corpses provide.
That's a good point... Need to think on that one.


Behold.

The Archansin!

http://uppix.com/f-Archansin52d1040100151863.png
Okay, assimilation? Corruption? Alien intelligence/Hivemind? What's the thing in the bottom left?

Tacitus
2014-01-11, 11:09 AM
Huh, oddly enough I'm also considering including the Borg, as the darker and more rational end to the spectrum for The Occasus. Not so much evolution and the endless advance, but certainly subduing one's enemies and making them friends... even if they don't talk much. XD

The opposite end of the spectrum? Madoka Kaname at the end, though I'm not sure how specific I can be without spoilers maybe? Definitely have Mythos just for her though.

If anyone has thoughts for individuals to add to my banner I'd appreciate it. Kinda stuck with Borg Queen and Madoka, maybe with a splash of TF2 Healer. I'm having a hard time pinning down actual characters. Definitely going to have to expand outside healing a bit, no doubt focus a little harder on the Paranoia.

Hmm... Paranoia Mythos idea. After being subjected to an effect with a subtype, gain a bonus to resist/save/etc that subtype and penalty to resist other subtypes in the same class. Examples would be Elemental Damage (hit by fire, +10 ER Fire, -5 ER others), Mind Affecting Effects (Fear, Charms, Dominates, Sleeps, Patterns), and maybe even Physical Damage to a lesser extent. Probably get to be too much bookkeeping though...

@PrimalFury: I think he's going for Evolution and Adaptation. Cause slivers. Just slivers. Dunno what lower left is though.
Zerg, Bugs (Troopers?), Can't Tell, Borg
Dunno, Xenomorphs, Slivers, Tyranids

6/8. The closest I've come to knowing the entire banner since the Teramach. XD

Draken
2014-01-11, 11:32 AM
Fifth image is the Flood Gravemind from Halo, no idea what the third one is.

Primal Fury
2014-01-11, 11:44 AM
Oooooh, the Flood. That must be from one of the animated movies or something, no wonder I didn't recognize it. The third one is one of the things from Dead Space.

Xefas
2014-01-11, 11:55 AM
Mythic Warforged is proceeding. It's going to be a two-parter, since I cannot abide the existing [Warforged] body feats, so they must be rewritten. Rewritten so hard. And more, of course. Doing Adamantine, Mithril, Alchemical Gold, Blended Quartz, Starmetal, and Shadesteel bodies, with four options in chassis design each.


Bugs (Troopers?)

Pretty sure that's a Brain Bug.

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-11, 12:35 PM
Man, You guys are good.

Kerrigan (Zerg), Brain Bug (Starship Troopers), Ubermorph (Dead Space), The Borg Queen (Star Trek), Gravemind (Halo/flood), Xenmorph Queen, Sliver Queen, And the Swarmlord (Tyranids).

Correct once again; Evolution and Adaption via The Swarm. For some reason, I've gotten into a Swarmy kick.
It'll draw heavily from all of the above, and more often than not, the Mythos will enhance The Swarm rather than the Archansin.

It'll be Lix's Swarmlord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253053)on Mythos fueled Steriods.

Maybe should replace Gravemind with Wesker and Ubermorph with Altman, Thoughts?

Primal Fury
2014-01-11, 12:46 PM
So there's nothing to do with assimilation here? Huh. Seems a shame since you're including the Borg, Tyranids, AND Zerg.

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-11, 12:51 PM
So there's nothing to do with assimilation here? Huh. Seems a shame since you're including the Borg, Tyranids, AND Zerg.

There's ALWAYS something to do with assimilation. How do you think the Archansin gets Mythos points?

Primal Fury
2014-01-11, 12:54 PM
Ah. Good show, sir. Good show. :smallwink:

By the way, how is the Akastarepti coming?

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-11, 01:06 PM
Ah. Good show, sir. Good show. :smallwink:

By the way, how is the Akastarepti coming?

Currently 64ish% Done. Will post when 75%.

Primal Fury
2014-01-11, 03:42 PM
Here's a finalized version of the Mythos. I added some gold costs, and more synergy with the Mad Alchemist feat.

Thoughts you guys?

Boiling Corpse-Cauldron Catalyst:
Prerequisites: 4 ranks in Craft (Alchemy)

The gods made so many mistakes when crafting their mortal children; orcs are stupid, elves are frail, and humans aren't particularly good at anything. But in one facet of their construction, the gods outdid themselves: the liquids. Mortal bodies are filled with so many biles and secretions, making them playgrounds for any alchemist with the stomach to set the process in motion. Your blood, your black, foul, putrid blood, bestowed upon you by your Hag Mothers is all you need to tap into the secrets of these pitiful sacks of meat.

You gain the disturbing ability to turn dead bodies into complete alchemy labs by pouring a few drops of your blood in the corpses mouth. What follows, few have the stomach for; the corpse spasms, almost as if it means to rise up once again. The body bloats and swells, its stomach finally bursting with a sickening pop. The sludge left behind makes the perfect catalyst for any alchemical mixture imaginable, allowing the creation of poisons with Craft (Alchemy) at no penalty, and providing a bonus on all Craft (Alchemy) rolls equal to half your class level.

As one might expect, the corpse's toughness in life is directly proportional to its alchemical usefulness in death; the liquids inside are worth a number of gold pieces in raw materials equal to (Constitution Score x 5).

In addition, you gain Grenadier (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/grenadier--1321/) and Mad Alchemist (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/mad-alchemist--1812/) as bonus feats, using your Intelligence modifier as the bonus on attack and damage rolls on the former.

Advanced
Double, Double: The leftover sludge in your corpse-cauldrons is particularly thick, yielding far more product than usual. You produce twice as much when creating alchemical mixtures and mythos with the [Alchemy] keyword. A witch worth her salt would never waste a potion, so she must find new ways to use them. You gain the ability to make larger area-of-effect attacks with alchemical weapons, such as acid flasks or alchemist's fire, by using more flasks in the process. You also gain the ability to greatly disorient enemies by using multiple thunderstones.

By using two flasks, you may attack a 10 ft radius, dealing an additional 1d6 damage, and 1 additional splash damage.

Once you reach 4th level, you can use three flasks to attack a 15 ft radius, dealing an additional 2d6 damage, and 2 additional splash damage.

Once you reach 8th level, you can use four flasks to attack a 20 ft radius, dealing an additional 3d6 damage, and 3 additional splash damage.

Once you reach 12th level, you can use six flasks to attack a 30 ft radius, dealing an additional 5d6 damage, and 5 additional splash damage.

Once you reach 16th level, you can use eight flasks to attack a 40 ft radius, dealing an additional 7d6 damage, and 7 additional splash damage.

The saving throw for all of these is Reflex based, with a DC of (10 + 1/2 class level + Intelligence Modifier); those who succeed halve the damage.
Coming Soon!

Toil and Trouble: With a hiss and a whispered curse, you exude a pale green mist that infects your foes with doubt and weakness. You gain a 10-foot cone breath attack, rendering anyone within it Shaken, and reducing their movement per round by 10 feet; this effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier. The targets get a Will saving throw to resist this effect, the DC of which is (10 + 1/2 class level + Charisma Modifier). If, while Shaken, the target fails their save against the Distracting Blast ability, they become Frightened. This attack can only be used once every 1d4 rounds.

Fire Burn: Your command of the dark power flowing through your veins has gifted you with the ability to set things ablaze with nothing but a hateful glare. You gain a gaze attack out to 60 feet that sets unattended objects on fire. With creatures you must roll a ranged touch attack with an attack bonus equal to your Charisma modifier; if the attack hits, the target immediately takes (1d6 + Charisma Modifier) damage and catches fire. Each round thereafter, the target must roll a Reflex save to put out the fire, or take 1d6 fire damage; if the target was covered in lantern oil or alchemist fire at the moment of attack, by way of Fiery Blaze, they instead take 2d6 fire damage for each round they fail to put out the fire. Even when the fire is put out, the creature smokes for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier, blanketing an area 30 feet around them in a think smog that offers everyone within it 20% concealment. The ghostly embers continue to cling to the target, preventing them from benefiting from the concealment. This attack can only be used once every 1d4 rounds.

Cauldron Bubble: It is unbecoming of a witch to be ill-prepared, so has each step led to the mastery of priming your cauldrons. You gain a melee touch attack that boils the targets blood, driving them into a terrible rage. This touch requires both a Will and Fortitude saving throw, at DCs of (10 + 1/2 class level + Charisma Modifier). If the targets fails the Will slave, then they are driven to a rage (as a barbarians rage), attacking the nearest creature other than the Tagati for the first round, than any other creature for the next (Charisma Modifier) rounds. If the target fails the Fortitude save, they take one Constitution damage, and another point of damage each round they fail their subsequent saving throws, for (Charisma Modifier) rounds, at which point the effect ends. Once the effects end, the target is Sickened for (Charisma Modifier) rounds; if they enter, or become adjacent to, a square of difficult terrain created by Tanglefoot Defense, they must make a Fortitude saving throw at DC (10 + 1/2 class level + Charisma Modifier), or be nauseated for the remainder. If the target dies while their blood boils, they corpse bursts as though they were primed by Boiling Corpse-Cauldron Catalyst, and cuts all crafting times for items made with Craft (Alchemy) in half. If the target is suffering from the effects of Toil and Trouble, they take a -2 penalty to their Will save, while if the target is on fire or smoking as a result of Fire Burn, they take a -2 penalty to their Fortitude saves for as long as they retain either condition. This attack can only be used once every 1d4 rounds.

I'm also thinking of adding another mythos that gives you the Energy Gestalt feat, though instead of spells, they apply to alchemical weapons. Throw and acid flask then alchemist's fire, BOOM, nausea.

Update: I'll be adding thunderstone stuff soon.

Draken
2014-01-11, 03:55 PM
As a final note, there isn't much point to a basic manifestation that is all alone by itself and has no repurchase options.

Primal Fury
2014-01-11, 04:02 PM
I don't understand. :smallconfused:

EDIT: Oooooooh. I think I get it... Alright, I guess I just need to think of something for it to do as an Advanced Mythos.

Tacitus
2014-01-11, 04:26 PM
5gp per point of Constitution Score or Modifier?

Primal Fury
2014-01-11, 04:51 PM
Constitution Score, I'll clarify. And I've changed Double, Double.

Scerpico
2014-01-12, 06:19 PM
Ok, heres a (VERY) preliminary draft at the Agona/Struggler that desperately needs some feedback, some of the ideas I've had for cool mythos aren't overtly powerful but do change a few paradigms (Coins edge understanding for instance) that I lack the experience to judge well and I haven't had nearly enough to research them extensively.

THE AGONA
"Destiny...destiny...destiny...destiny...SHUT THE HELL UP! How 'bout you save your high and mighty crap for after I've been haunted to death, skullface? Sacrifice? Offering? Destiny? Quit spoutin' out a bunch of cryptic explanations! The point is, this is war! It ain't different from any other war! The last one standing wins! Listen here! I'm beatin' all a' you back down to Hell! Tell those ugly pale-faced bastards for me! If I get hit, I will hit back! Tell 'em leavin' me half-eaten is gonna be the end of you! I'll hunt and kill all those wretched monsters...and all of you...DOWN TO THE LAST ONE! THIS IS...MY DECLARATION OF WAR!"

In a word Defiance. That is what defines the loose collection of souls that take up the mantle of Struggler, to a being they have looked at the world, at what reality itself tells them will be, MUST BE and they have uttered the words that will shake the very pillars of creation.
NO.
To be Struggler is to withstand the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, to make any enemy of all that exists and to carry on anyway, to gaze upon the face of God and spit out your bloody defiance across its cheek.

HD: 12
Skill points: 4/level
BAB: GOOD
SAVES: ALL GOOD
An AGONA is proficient in simple and martial weapons and in light, medium and heavy armour.

LOGOS: is in many ways the core of defiance that burns at their heart, it is their plea to themselves, that which defines them and it is the source of their power.
A Struggler’s LOGOS is equal to their highest mental ability score modifier.

Breaking Water Understanding: Constant reaffirmation of the self through hardship and hate have expanded the limits of the Strugglers existence to the point where they are begin to transcend their limitations, becoming MORE than they once were.
Effect: Pick the characters highest mental stat, this becomes their ‘prime’ stat or ‘Logos’ a part of their fundamental driving force.
At first level add your LOGOS as an extraordinary bonus to all saves.
At 5th level this bonus is added to attack and damage rolls

NOTE: The general idea is that the AGONA is powered as much by determination as physical ability and that LOGOS is something that applies to more and more effects as the class grows.


Mythos names:

Dragonslaying method: Gain the powerful build and natural heavy-weight traits.
Advanced;

WEIGHT OF DEFIANCE: (Fluff regarding metaphysical weight)
Effect: You count as one size category larger for the purposes of grapples, weapon damage and any/all effects in which exerting force comes into play so long as doing so would prove beneficial. This stacks with powerful build and any other increases in size, virtual or otherwise.
Note this does NOT affect your reach.

Unshakable resolve: When focused on your LOGOS you become almost impossible to move without consent, though monsters charge and the oceans themselves batter ‘gainst your back you stand resolute.
Effect: Add You class levels to opposed checks regarding grapples, bullrushes, trips and prolonged strength tests (i.e shoring up a collapsing support pillar with your body)

Advanced: Gain Steadfast determination as a bonus feat.

True Grit (need better name): To follow a dream, truly follow a dream is to make the world your enemy and what is fear of death compared to something like that?
Effect: the Struggler becomes immune to natural and supernatural fear effects.



Coins edge Understanding:
The Struggler is not bound to the rules of uncaring stars or pitiless Gods, snatching victory from the jaws of inevitable defeat.
Effect: The Struggler cannot be trapped or affected without contest; when they would be affected by an attack or spell that does not allow a save the Struggler does, in fact get to resist, pitting their force of will and arms against the arbitrary laws that seek to bind them.
(For spells use standard DC generation, for other effects use 10+HD of attackers initiator+ relevant ability bonus)
Advanced:

The attacks of your foes come as a comfort, for why would they try so hard to end your advance if they did not fear the possibility of your victory?
Effect: When you successfully resist a spell or other supernatural ability you regain a number of hitpoints equal to 10+spell/ effect level.

Last Man Standing Promise: You are staggeringly hard to kill, the endless well of your conviction forcing you onwards long after you should have fallen.
Effect: Add your class level to you Con modifier for the purpose of determining hitpoints, this change is retroactive.

Advanced:
Body of Iron, Soul of Steel:
Your body and will have been forged by adversity, turning aside with ease those attacks that do not land with similar conviction.
Effect: Gain DR x/- where X is equal to you LOGOS

(need name)
Effect: Gain Spell resistance equal to 10+ levels in this class plus LOGOS. This can be dropped and resumed as a free action.


I SAY THEE NAY:
Effect: This mythos can be used in response to an attack or effect that hits you, and completely negates it for you and for anyone else that would suffer its effects after you as you square your shoulders and beat it back. (Example if you are the 3rd creature hit by a Chain-lightning spell you and those after you would suffer no damage but the first 2 subjects would be affected normally)
However the ability to overturn any attack is a costly one and you miss your next turn as you recover from this draining act of will.
This mythos can be used multiple times in a single combat but to do so is incredibly draining, every usage beyond the first incurs 2 points of ability burn to both your LOGOS and you CON score.

FANTASTIC MYTHOS:
Dragonslaying Instrument: Men call things Dragons, Demons, monsters to mark them out as special, to reassure themselves in their lot, men aren’t supposed to kill Dragons, that’s why they’re dragons.
You Don’t have that luxury.
Effect: Pick a weapon, any weapon can do from the finest sword forged by the greatest smith to the simplest stone driven through wood, all that matters is that you take it up with the desire to kill.
So long as this weapon is in your hands attacks made by it ignore a Ghosts incorporeal nature and the damage reduction of outsiders.
Advanced:
Angel-slaying Panopoly: Creatures with the regeneration and fast healing abilities no longer benefit from them with regards to your attacks.
GLORIOUS ATLAS METHOD: Choose one stat, upon purchasing this Excellency that stat gains a +2 enhancement bonus. This Excellency can be purchased multiple times, each purchase affecting a different stat.
When you have at least 1 fantastic mythos you may purchase this Excellency again for each stat, increasing the enhancement bonus to +6

Broken Sword Improvisation: Take no penalties for using improvised weapons.

Dogged determination is no replacement for skill but it certainly helps.
Effect: pick a class skill, you gain a competence bonus to all rolls with this skill equal to your class level.
HORDE CLEARING FORM:
When all stands in your way it becomes harder and harder to differentiate one foe from the next, you spare them no thought, no second glance as they fall and you move on to the next obstacle.
Effect: Cleave and Great Cleave as Bonus feats.

Unflinching Determination:
Effect: Gain Mettle.

Tireless wanderer:
Effect: you become immune to fatigue and when you would normally become exhausted you are instead fatigued (You suffer the effects of being fatigued.) and you may go without sleep for a number of days without penalty equal to the sum of your LOGOS and you CON modifier.
At 7th level you become immune to exhaustion as well and no longer need to sleep though you may do so if you desire.


I'm also thinking of including something like a Rage effect, a self triggered buff that represents the Agona pressing themselves beyond their bodies unconscious limits but am unsure how to stat this without stepping on the Teramach's toes.

Likewise a diplomacy or intimidation mythos, as the AGONA advances they become like a weight upon the rubber sheet pf reality, becoming impossible to ignore (for good or ill).

Honestly I just need some feedback on what people find appropriate in terms of power and scope. are these mythos too strong, too weak? Are they broad enough to count as Mythos at all?

Adam1949
2014-01-14, 02:35 AM
It's looking good to start with, Scerpico. Although, I agree with you in that it's a bit tough to make it different enough from the Teramach. If I'm going to be completely honest, though, it's different enough from The Monster by simple virtue of two things: it cares about at least one Mental attribute, and out of all the Physical ones Constitution seems like it'd be their highest, rather than Strength. I'm not too good at balance, though, and I don't claim to be very good at fluff or crunch either (as was seen by my constant fixing in regards to the Dvati and the Seneschal), but if I had to gather, I'd say that the Agona is a different enough beast from the Teramach to make it worthwhile.
Do you have a banner for it yet? I find it makes it easier to help out, and to get new ideas, if you've got a visual aid.

Which reminds me, I'm putting a lot on my plate. Now, this next thing is almost definitely encroaching on the Olethrofex's territory, but for some reason I feel like that class needs a bit more arcana to it. That, and I got bored while listening to the music for a certain movie :smallbiggrin:

http://i.imgur.com/BhAxp1d.jpg

GreaserFish
2014-01-19, 11:08 AM
So, it's been a while. Has anyone made any progress they feel like sharing?

Network
2014-01-19, 12:23 PM
So, it's been a while. Has anyone made any progress they feel like sharing?

My Uttercold Retributor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16682200&postcount=10) prestige class for the Teramach, Kathodos and Olethrofex is finally complete. The voting thread for the contest is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324898).

Primal Fury
2014-01-19, 12:29 PM
I've got quite a few Mythos in the pipeline. As soon as I'm done figuring out the last effect of Swamp Hag's Surprise, I'm moving on to Blood-Freezing Cackle Defense, which is basically done, but just needs numbers. Then there's voodoo dolls, ghostly telekinesis, and death-tainted aspects of the natural elements.

The only problem I'm having is that I can't find a good... "Shoot-Bang" mythos; something that can serve as a core offensive ability. This is designed to be more of a "support" class, but everybody's gotta have shoot-bangs. I added Darth Sidious to the list of characters, so I'm thinking shooting lightning, but why? In addition to being awesome, it needs to make sense.

Oh! And I found an absolutely PERFECT quote too: "Myself? No. I have no desire to march through the streets with an axe or a hammer, meeting my foes in the flesh. My path is the far greater one. I shall meet them in spirit and crush them from afar, devouring them by the hundreds and the thousands. Soon, all that was promised me shall be mine, and then Doomhammer will be as nothing against me. Even the might of the Horde will pale before me, and I shall stretch out my hand and wipe this world clean, to remake it in my own image!" Gul'dan - World of Warcraft

Tacitus
2014-01-19, 04:26 PM
Work on the Occasus has been slow because I've been caught up in playing FTL like a madman lately. Great little game, especially with the many many mods the community has come up with. Playing as an Arwing or the Enterprise is amusing as hell.
I need to actually get the chassis finished and write up a few Mythos so I can actually get it posted as so far its all mainly placeholders. Pretty sure I had some work that was lost to an unexpected system restart at one point too, so that sucks.

In other news, has anyone considered putting together a Mythos Brew game here on giants to see how things go (ie, 1 Teramach, 1 Olethrofex, 1 Kathodos)? If they have, how did it go? If not, anyone know a DM willing to start one up? Probably level 7 because I know the Kathodos doesn't have Exalted and only one Legendary.

GreaserFish
2014-01-19, 05:16 PM
I just remembered that I was wondering on how to work a roguish variant of the Teramach the other day. One of my preexisting characters espoused the utility of violence and looked upon its proper application as a sort of skeleton key to solving any situation one might find oneself needing to solve. He happened to be a rogue, but his preferred tactics were less in the 'Sneak around and stab them in the back' category and more along the lines of 'Vault over them and then stab them in the back while they're caught off guard'. With his mindset, I can very easily see him being a manifestation of the Monster, but the Teramach doesn't really fit his personal style of violence. Any thoughts on the matter?

Agrippa
2014-01-19, 07:02 PM
I'm currently working on a banner for my own Mythos class called the thaumaturge or miracle worker. It's supposed to cover prophets, mystics, holy men and women and beings of divine or otherworldly nature. The powers of the Thaumaturge are over life, death and spirits and minds of all sorts. They bend the thoughts of others to their will by sheer devotion of their followers. In same cases they instill courage in the hearts of their followers by mere presence. Simply put, a Thaumaturge works miracles.

vasharanpaladin
2014-01-19, 08:25 PM
In other news, has anyone considered putting together a Mythos Brew game here on giants to see how things go?

I'd LIKE to, but my interest kills PbPs... :smallfrown:

VoodooPaladin
2014-01-19, 09:16 PM
I just remembered that I was wondering on how to work a roguish variant of the Teramach the other day.

So, GreaserFish. You want a Roguamach? Well for this character, described as "not sneaky," I believe the words "aggressive" and "opportunistic" would still fit well enough. All-Consuming Rampage Release is obvious - you'll want full control over when your Rage starts. If you want weapons, Sacrosanct Blood-Titan Idol Adoption (Curse-Diluting Violence Sincerity) is what you're after, provided you can find a cursed knife that won't let you throw it away. Raging Gorebeast Charge is good if you want to instagib people. Stay away from Psychotic Sapience-Brutalizing Devolution, since it'll kill your skill points and you might want a few for something.
For higher levels, Roosting Hoard-Serpent Avarice is great for thieves and vagabonds.
But the real boost for your Roguamach is the Excellences. Heroes' Misfortune and Unthinking [Skill] Comprehension are your friends for almost all physical skill checks, including such roguish delights as Balance and Tumble. Stalking Under A Dead Sun gives you perfect Darkvision and Reflexive Murder-Twitch lets you sub in Dex for Wis on Spot and Listen checks to notice creatures, so you'll never be the one who's surprised. You even have the best social skills - Intimidate and Sense Motive. Wordless Terror Demonstration gives you the dark-alley diplomacy option, making your Intimidate check soar after you punch someone in the face. Even Pouncing Beast Ascension is great if "vault over them" is a favored combat trick.
Of special note is the unofficial Teramach Sense Motive Mythos - comment #301 in the Teramach thread, inside the spoiler. It's called Pulling Out The Silver Tongue, and it lets you beat the truth out of people. One advanced manifestation lets you beat the offending individual to death with their own lies.

I'm curious, why do you personally think the Teramach does not currently fit with your brutal thug's persona? Are you suggesting some sort of Opportunistic Teramach option?

Blueiji
2014-01-19, 10:40 PM
I just remembered that I was wondering on how to work a roguish variant of the Teramach the other day. One of my preexisting characters espoused the utility of violence and looked upon its proper application as a sort of skeleton key to solving any situation one might find oneself needing to solve. He happened to be a rogue, but his preferred tactics were less in the 'Sneak around and stab them in the back' category and more along the lines of 'Vault over them and then stab them in the back while they're caught off guard'. With his mindset, I can very easily see him being a manifestation of the Monster, but the Teramach doesn't really fit his personal style of violence. Any thoughts on the matter?

Cunning brutality or brutal cunning? (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gork_and_Mork#.UtyaiBDTmUk)

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-19, 10:52 PM
New idea, Both the Akastarepti and Archansin are on hold, due to lack of inspiration.

Drasilia;

http://uppix.com/f-Smaug52dc9d7c00152dfd.jpg

Primal Fury
2014-01-19, 11:15 PM
C'mon Shadowfire. Don't do like I did. I started on... at least 4, maybe six classes before finally settling on this one. You'll never get anything done like that, trust me. :smallannoyed:

And who here has played Soul Sacrifice?

vasharanpaladin
2014-01-19, 11:29 PM
Cunning brutality or brutal cunning? (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gork_and_Mork#.UtyaiBDTmUk)

'Oo cares, ya grot? All we needs is WAAAAGH!!

GreaserFish
2014-01-20, 06:54 AM
-Snip-

I'm curious, why do you personally think the Teramach does not currently fit with your brutal thug's persona? Are you suggesting some sort of Opportunistic Teramach option?
Thanks for the ideas. The reason why I don't think the Teramach doesn't quite fit is because this guy realizes and acknowledges that he's not actually all that physically strong. He's exploitative of his enemies' weaknesses and his own strengths, the first and foremost of which would likely be either his dexterity or cunning. Just because he isn't strong, though, doesn't mean he's not incredibly violent or good at being violent. It's just that the Teramach focuses on Strength above all else, rather than this guy's favoring of dexterity. He's less like a brutal thug and more like a very straight-forward assassin. He does view himself as an extension of violence itself, but in a roundabout sort of way. An opportunistic, dextrous, and wisecracking Teramach would suit my desires perfectly. You know, that reminds me of something I was wondering about the other day. What skill do you use to piss someone off? Neither diplomacy nor intimidate seem to fit...


Cunning brutality or brutal cunning? (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gork_and_Mork#.UtyaiBDTmUk)
Definitely brutal cunning. That describes his personality very well, actually.


Drasilia
A Mythos Dragon, then? I'm certainly interested, but as Primal Fury said, you might want to focus on getting one class done before you start doing more.

Primal Fury
2014-01-20, 10:21 AM
A Mythos Dragon, then? I'm certainly interested, but as Primal Fury said, you might want to focus on getting one class done before you start doing more.
Oh my god, I was wrong. There were NINE classes! :smalleek:

Kazyan
2014-01-20, 12:23 PM
I don't fully understand the Mythos system because I just haven't been arsed to do so, but I have an idea and I have to at least make the banner for it.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z228/Hauntinomin/VortragendeMythos_zps16df548e.jpg

Primal Fury
2014-01-20, 01:40 PM
What's up with the last two? They seem out of place, one being more of a mouthpiece than an actual character, and the other being a murderer, just inside the body of a doll. Those don't really scream "Mad Clown" to me. Am I missing something?

Kazyan
2014-01-20, 01:50 PM
To be honest, I thought something was off, so you're probably right. I don't know to replace them with, though. Any ideas?

Primal Fury
2014-01-20, 02:03 PM
Sweet Tooth from Twisted Metal springs to mind... Possibly one of the clowns from "Killer Clowns from Outer Space". Beetlejuice too.

Draken
2014-01-20, 02:04 PM
Jigsaw probably works since it is the visual display his victims get, and pretty much what that particular psychopath's "story" is about, and he does kill his victims in cruel and unusual games, which fits the whole idea of a murderous comedian.

Chucky doesn't fit since he is just a possessed toy with a knife, sure. Maybe the Comedian from Watchmen would fit a bit better, enough to fit at least one (kind of) heroic individual in the lineup.

Kazyan
2014-01-20, 02:12 PM
Changed Chucky to the Comedian. There. Sheesh, I need to at least get the concept down before I try to make a Mythos class.

vasharanpaladin
2014-01-20, 05:36 PM
New idea, Both the Akastarepti and Archansin are on hold, due to lack of inspiration.


No, seriously, post what you have. If you're running dry the best choice is to tap the vein, not sit back and simmer down until you've nothing left. :smallannoyed:

The Tygre
2014-01-21, 01:01 AM
What? No Kefka?

Agrippa
2014-01-21, 01:58 AM
I'm trying to upload my banner, but the computer deems ImageShack a security risk and I forgot my Photobucket password. I tried uppix, but that didn't work either.

Amnoriath
2014-01-21, 09:22 AM
The Mythic Halfling

“I came from the end of bag, but no bag went over me. I am the friend of bears and the guest of eagles. I am Ring-winner and Luckwearer; and I am Barrel-rider.” Bilbo Baggins, a mythic halfling

During the aeon of creation the Gods stood perplexed at the material realms. According to all logical standards everything fit into place, however there the sat mulling over what they were missing. A smaller female God took particular interest in this absence. Her name was Yondalla.
No matter how hard she tried she wasn't satisfied. Dwarves had stone and metal from the ground and of well-being. Gnomes had song, art, and fervent creation riddled throughout their lives. Elves had patience, grace, and knowledge which ensures their higher echelon. Humans had innovation, adaptability, and balance spreading their vast cultures throughout the world. She then sighed in futility until a wandering traveler happened to shout her name.
Yondalla's aura flickered in surprise as her angular yet child face shot to meet his. She demmanded,"How did you know my name?"
"A guess, milady," the short man replied in cordial credulity.
The answer found in the sheer luck of his daring blurt. "What is your name sir?" she asked while in epiphany.
"Wileak, milady" he responded in kind. He blushed slightly as he was fiddling with his tools. He then recollected the tales of his journey. While Yondalla wasn't at all amazed at what he was reminiscing she took great interest in his reactions both then and now.
She then went to consult with the other gods to give a new race a divine touch of fortune and uncanny resourcefulness. The rest of the Gods bickered over the practicality and the entailments of such gifts. In union they belted "No!". Disguted with their arrogance and bureaucracy she went to see what she could do without notice. Instantly as she opened her books and tended her field cries of fustration and disbelief rang out from the halls. At a distance she noticed a striding figure dashing from a cataclysm undoubted created by the fury of the Gods. It was Wileak juggling his tools and what appeared to be shining dice. Before she could get there the destruction enveloped him. She ravaged through the rubble both out of concern and duty but she found no once of fabric or trinkets of the material realm other than a note saying, "We don't need you anymore," Betrayed and relieved she cultched her abdomen in perplexing anger as she lied to the counsel on the thief's fate.


Half the Size, Twice the Fortune
Prerequisites: Halfling, One Mythos
Benefit: You may add these mythos to any mythos class you have levels in. In addition you add one hit point per luck feat you know and your reroll pool is increased by 1.
Exceptional Mythos

Parsimonious Fortune Finder

You gain Miser's Fortune as a bonus feat. Additionally you can use the Search skill to look for items or gold with a competence bonus equal to half your mythos class level. You are treated as if you were trained in the skill even if you do not possess ranks in it. You may also choose from one of these basic manifestations. Additionally you may choose from one of the previous or following lists.

Resourceful Mono Devotion: You may select one item on your person to benefit from the Ancestral Relic feat with the following differences. It does not need to be of masterwork quality. You can only use the magical properties of the item in question and therefore does not possess value outside what it was before it undergone the ritual. Even if you couldn't normally use the item in question you can use it normally without failure. The item in question may not be an artifact or item of legacy.

Fortuitous Compact Forager: When you make a Search check you can instead look through 5 foot areas equal to one half your mythos class level. You may also use the Survival skill untrained as if you were trained with a competence bonus equal to half your mythos class level.

Wily Appraisal Intuition: You may make Appraise checks as if you were trained with a competence bonus equal to half your mythos class level. Additional you may increase your Appraise check by 5 to raise or lower the base value of the item in question by 2 percent. This may be increased up to time equal to one fourth you character level(max 5). However, because you are noticing something different you cannot truthfully appraise it to be higher if you have already apprasied it as being lower and vice versa.

Advanced: You can have your items reroll their saves by expending a roll from your luck pool. Your enemies may also be forced to reroll caster level checks against your items.

Omniscient Devout Custody: The caster level of the item you selected is now equal to your mythos class level. Additionally if you would ever lose the item you can take a full-round action the provokes an attack or opportunity to sense where it is as if you were there as well as know the general direction of where to go. If the item itself has senses you may use its senses if they are better. You may also expend two rerolls from your reroll pool to force an enemy to reroll any roll to avoid or reduce any effect from the item in question. You must have selected the Resourceful Mono Devotion manifestation to select this option.

Unearth the Cache: Once the DM rolls for loot and asserts the total value you may make a search check equal to have a part of the loot be something you specifically need. As such it replaces some of the loot with what you specifically you requested. This request can be a set of items but they all must be exactly the same. This check is equal 10+appraise check needed to determine its value. These items in question cannot exceed 10% of the total value of the loot. You may also try to request items of up to 20% of the total or two different items up to 10% each in which you must succeed at a check of 25+the larger appraise check. This may only be done once per loot roll. You may also expend 2 rerolls from your reroll pool to force the DM to roll for loot again taking the second result. You must have taken the Fortuitous Compact Forger manifestation to select this.

Transitive Market Deduction: You can now make appraise checks as full round actions instead of one minute. When inspecting an item you can appraise check using the knowledge skill rules to find out where it has been and who has used it. You may expend 2 rerolls from your reroll pool to reroll the result of any knowledge check. You must have taken the Wily Appraisal Intuition manifestation in order to select this option.

Expedient Aimless Wanderlust

You gain Lucky Start and Yondalla's Senses as bonus feats. Additionally if you expend a reroll from your reroll pool you can act in the surprise round but you are still considered flat footed if you couldn't normally act.

Miniscule Undaunted Luck

You gain Unbelievable Luck as a bonus feat. Additionally you may choose from one of these basic manifestations which each cost a luck reroll to use and lasts for one round.
You gain a luck bonus to your AC equal to 1d4+1.
You gain a luck bonus to your attack rolls equal to 1d4+1.
You gain a luck bonus to your saves equal to 1d4+1.
You gain a luck bonus to your damage rolls equal to 1d6+1.
You gain a luck bonus to Strength based skills and checks equal to 1d4+1.
You gain a luck bonus to Dexterity based skills and checks equal to 1d4+1.
You gain a luck bonus to Intelligence based skills and checks equal to 1d4+1.
You gain a luck bonus to Wisdom based skills and checks equal to 1d4+1.
You gain a luck bonus to Charisma based skills and checks equal to 1d4+1.

Advanced: Your luck feat rerolls now only take up a free action to use. You may also select from one more basic manifestation. At your mythos class level of 10 the die rolled to gain the luck bonuses is increased by one step and damage becomes 1d8+2. If you have taken levels in the Fortune's Friend prestige class you may burn a reroll as a free action to gain an extra swift or immediate action which only may be done once a round.

Dimunitive Ideal Form

You get Lucky Catch as a bonus feat even if you don't meet the prerequisites. You also may treat yourself as one size smaller any time it would be beneficial to you and gain a competence bonus to either balance, climb, jump, or tumble checks equal to half your mythos class level. Additionally if you expend a reroll from your pool you gain a climb and jumping speed equal to 5 times your mythos class level up to double your base speed. You are not considered flat-footed while climbing nor do your enemies get a special bonus against you. This lasts for rounds equal to double your mythos class level.

Fantastic Mythos

Gratuitous Pragmatic Slinger

Prerequisites: One Halfling Mythos Known
You gain Lucky Fingers as a bonus feat and may make special ammunition. As a full-round action you can make a bullet that does 1d6 damage. As you gain levels it acquires an enhancement bonus to attack and damage equal to one fourth your character level. It always bypasses damage reduction as if it were a magic weapon. If you are proficient with a Halfling skip rock this bullet may have the same special ability. You may also reload your sling or staff as a free action per attack you make, however special bullets take extra care and only can be reloaded once this way regardless of any feat you possess. They can choose to throw them as a splash weapon in which they only get the described effect below but they also may apply after a successful attack after the damage roll.

Tanglefoot Bullet: If the opponent fails on a reflex save they are rendered prone as well as entangled for rounds equal to your mythos class level. If they are flying they fall for the round in which they may make a dexterity check of 20 to regain flight the next round if they haven't hit the ground. If they succeed in the save they are only entangled for half the time.

Gust Bullet: If the opponent fails on a fortitude save they are pushed back 5 feet for every mythos class levels you possess. If they succeed it merely just halts movement of the current action. Undead and Constructs are not immune to this effect.

Resonating Bullet: An attack dealt with this kind of bullet deals sonic damage. Additionally the target is subject to the effects of the shatter spell with an effective caster level equal to your mythos class level. If used to attack an item specifically it can be used to make a sunder check with no penalty.

Weakening Bullet: The target takes a penalty to strength score and physical skill checks equal to 3+one fourth mythos class level for rounds equal to one half mythos class levels unless the succeed on a fortitude save in which the penalty and duration is halved. Undead and Constructs are not immune to this effect. These penalties are not culmulative.

Flashbang Bullet: The target is treated as blinded with a duration of rounds equal to one half mythos class levels unless it succeeds on a fortitude save. Regardless of the result all creatures have concealment within a 20 foot spread but so does any creature they attempt to target.

Explosive Bullet: Creatures within a 15 foot radius of the strike take half fire and half bludeoning damage equal to 2d6+1d6/3 mythos class levels unless they succed on a reflex save for half.

Hindering Bullet: The target takes a penalty to their dexterity score equal to 3+one fourth and cannot use a swift or immediate action neither may they run or charge for mythos class levels for one half mythos class level rounds. If they succeed on a reflex save they only suffer half the penalty for half the time. These penalties are not culmulative.

Beguiling Bullet: The target makes a will save or becomes confused and take a penalty to mental skills equal to 3+one fourth mythos class levels for rounds equal to one half mythos class levels. If they succeed they are not confused but do not know who attacked them and the penalty as well as the duration is halved. These penalties are not culmulative.

Venom Bullet: The target becomes afflicted with a poison. The target takes 1d6+1/4 mythos class levels points of constitution damage for both the primary and secondary damage rolling a fortitude save as normal.

Knockout Bullet: The target must succeed on a will save or be dazed for rounds equal to 1+1/4 mythos class levels. If they succeed they are only staggered for one round.

Advanced: Your bullets may now be treated as if being made of a special weapon material. You can expend two rerolls from your pool to prepare a special bullet you didn't know as a swift or immediate action. Special bullets made this way are effective for one minute per mythos class level you possess. Additionally you may select another special bullet to prepare.

Underestimated Effective Capability

Prerequisites: One Halfling Mythos Known
You gain Advantageous Avoidance as a bonus feat. Whenever a creature of at least one size category larger than you would succeed in making a check or attack against you, or you failing to do so against them you can use your failure to your advantage. Creatures of at two size catergories larger take a -1 penalty to this save and for every size category above. The creature makes a will save if successful they are one step friendlier to you up to friendly. If they fail they regard you as unworthy and do not attack you in any way. They also treat all their attribute modifiers in attacks, checks, damage rolls, and save DC's against you as if they were 10 unless they are worse until you succeed against them. After you succeed they may attack you again but their attributes are still treated as lowered for 1d4+1/5 mythos class levels you possess. A creature only makes one save per encounter because whether they fail or not they know it was fake. Mindless creatures are considered to automatically save but if they are rendered flat-footed by you up to one round afterwards they lose their attributes are effectively reduced as above for the time alloted. If you expend two rerolls from your pool you may automatically make an attack that bypasses any concealment whenever they would fail a check against you while their attributes are treated as 10 from this ability.

Legendary Mythos

Tenacious Eternal Kismet

Prerequisites: Two Halfling Mythos's Known
Your fortune now extends to your allies as you recognize their importance to yourself. You gain Good Karma and Dumb Luck as bonus feats. All your allies can benefit from your luck feats so long as they are in the same plane and they gain a reroll pool of two. If you possess the Miniscule Undaunted Luck mythos they also may benefit from your luck bonuses the same time you do. As long as you are within 60 feet of an ally you and the allies in that area may take full-round actions with no penalty in negative hit points and do not die unless they exceed their constitution scores in negative hit points. Additionally if you expend two rerolls from your pool as an immediate action you can try to dismiss any spell or like abilities as well as supernatural abilities. The creature targeted must prove to be an immediate threat to you or your ally and you must be able to see it. You make a mythos class level check modified by the attribute that fuels your save DC's against a DC of 10+HD+relevant attribute. If a permanent effect was dismissed it functions again 1d4+1/5 mythos class levels rounds later. If you are dismissing the effect of an item use its caster level modified by the creature's constitution modifier. For every 5 points you exceed that check you may cancel one more effect they have, however if you first dismissed an item you only can target another item unless it adds up to be the same DC or higher.

Tychris1
2014-01-21, 11:57 AM
Reserved: The Mythic Halfling

There needs to be a Potato wielding mythos.

http://mason.gmu.edu/~kfasick/potatowned.gif

VoodooPaladin
2014-01-21, 03:13 PM
New idea, Both the Akastarepti and Archansin are on hold, due to lack of inspiration.

Please post what you made for them. I for one am curious what this Akasterapti had up its sleeve, as you described it successfully murdering a CR+4 wizard in fair, single combat. Don't be a tease.
And your Drasilia concept looks cool! I'm guessing dragon, demon... demon dragon? (http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=185812)

Amnoriath
2014-01-21, 03:51 PM
There needs to be a Potato wielding mythos.

http://mason.gmu.edu/~kfasick/potatowned.gif

:smallbiggrin:Nice, but not quite, however you could call one of the things I do offer potatoes rather than stones or bullets. I am just working on a flavor story as of now and maybe guide me into making a banner would be much appreciated.

Xefas
2014-01-21, 04:53 PM
I'm having the worst case of brain belligerence right now :smallsigh:. The Mythic Tailor and Mythic Chef are close to being done, but the synapses just aren't firing right.


I'm trying to upload my banner, but the computer deems ImageShack a security risk and I forgot my Photobucket password. I tried uppix, but that didn't work either.

I have an account (http://imgur.com/a/EPekI) with Imgur (http://imgur.com/), but I'm pretty sure you can upload and link to stuff there without an account, if you so choose. Not sure though.


I am just working on a flavor story as of now and maybe guide me into making a banner would be much appreciated.

Do you have any characters in mind?

Primal Fury
2014-01-21, 06:54 PM
I'm having the worst case of brain belligerence right now :smallsigh:. The Mythic Tailor and Mythic Chef are close to being done, but the synapses just aren't firing right.
What are you having problems with exactly?

Amnoriath
2014-01-21, 07:01 PM
Do you have any characters in mind?
Bilbo(The Hobbit), Edward Elric(a bit of joke, I know), Scytale from Dune Messiah

Kymme
2014-01-21, 07:28 PM
I'm having the worst case of brain belligerence right now :smallsigh:. The Mythic Tailor and Mythic Chef are close to being done, but the synapses just aren't firing right.

Some music that may provide inspiration. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zAMJXZnJoY) :smallamused:


Also, I have an idea for a mythic race/profession of my own, though a catchy name fails me.

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee508/Kymme777/MythicPortalUser_zps4958283e.png

Xefas
2014-01-21, 08:58 PM
What are you having problems with exactly?

It's not anything exact. Have you ever just said to your brain "Hey, lets do this thing" and it's all like,

http://i.imgur.com/fC9usVS.jpg? So you just kinda... do something else, and try not to think about the implications of a consciousness that has dubious control over the meat computer housing it.


Some music that may provide inspiration. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zAMJXZnJoY) :smallamused:

I like that music. I guess I'll put that on the 'pros' list for whether I watch Kill La Kill or not. I've heard its quite good. I've also heard it has an overabundance of underage fanservice and distasteful rape jokes. At any rate, you may've pushed me over into the "watch an episode or two and see for myself" tier of interest.


Also, I have an idea for a mythic race/profession of my own, though a catchy name fails me.

Well, I haven't bothered giving any of the small supplements catchy names. They could just be "Mythic Holepuncher" or "Mythic Doorlord" or whatever you feel like. :smalltongue:

Primal Fury
2014-01-21, 09:00 PM
Alright... I'm having a problem here. Not with lack of ideas, with TOO MANY ideas. This is the Mythic Witch, and possibly the quintessential power of witches (other than alchemy maybe) is dark magic. But there are so many different kinds of dark magic to draw inspiration from, I feel this class may end up being able to do a lot. I understand that, due to the way this class functions, they will never be able to do everything, but is having an answer for every situation (within a particular theme) a bad thing for a class to be able to do?

Also Kymme, what is your race/profession supposed to be able to do?

EDIT: Oh okay. I'm not very familiar with Wakfu, so I didn't know what your first character did.

Kymme
2014-01-21, 09:19 PM
I like that music. I guess I'll put that on the 'pros' list for whether I watch Kill La Kill or not. I've heard its quite good. I've also heard it has an overabundance of underage fanservice and distasteful rape jokes. At any rate, you may've pushed me over into the "watch an episode or two and see for myself" tier of interest.

I watch it for two reasons. One, the amazingly over-the-top action sequences and the fabulous OST (BTW, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-N3MS1YKeo) track just screams Cynosure). Fanservice is... well, it's fanservice.


Well, I haven't bothered giving any of the small supplements catchy names. They could just be "Mythic Holepuncher" or "Mythic Doorlord" or whatever you feel like. :smalltongue:

Doorlord. Well, it sure beats the hell out of 'Portal User'. :smallbiggrin:


Also Kymme, what is your race/profession supposed to be able to do?

EDIT: Oh okay. I'm not very familiar with Wakfu, so I didn't know what your first character did.

Yeah, not many people are, for some reason. :smallconfused: It's a good show, if a bit childish at the start.

Draken
2014-01-21, 09:26 PM
Don't remember any rape jokes in Kill La Kill. Uh.

Anyway, I was also entertaining the idea of a Mythos Tailor ever since this scene (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i9fNlE6uoI) from said anime.

Xefas
2014-01-21, 09:38 PM
EDIT: Oh okay. I'm not very familiar with Wakfu, so I didn't know what your first character did.

I watched the first season, and I think it's worth a watch. Spoiler for off-topic tangent.
The ending turned me off to watching the second season, but it might be good as well. I honestly don't know.

It does suffer from the all-too-common Anime trope of "Every character is incredibly interesting except for the main character". You have this hilarious, greedy old veteran/retired adventurer, the errant druid prophet/princess destined to save her kingdom from impending genocide (along with her loyal, quirky bodyguard), the dense but well-meaning knight that has forsworn his own spiritual needs to carry the burden of a demonic relic that will eventually corrupt and devour him, and... random kid with no personality or motivation who does nothing and doesn't matter and only exists as a living macguffin.

At the very least, I didn't find the main character annoying. He isn't Tidus. He doesn't ruin the story he exists in just by existing. I'd go so far as to say he's mildly endearing. But, I would've probably enjoyed the series more if Yugo was replaced by an especially puissant chair, or something, and his screentime given to the other characters. Needed more Rubilax* and Breadnaught.

*On the banner for Mythic Item if I get to it. =P
(BTW, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-N3MS1YKeo) track just screams Cynosure).

It does.

Doorlord. Well, it sure beats the hell out of 'Portal User'. :smallbiggrin:
Unfortunately, I can't find a clip of Finn fighting the Doorlord in Adventure Time! Oh well.

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-21, 09:46 PM
I watch it for two reasons. One, the amazingly over-the-top action sequences and the fabulous OST (BTW, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-N3MS1YKeo) track just screams Cynosure). Fanservice is... well, it's fanservice.


Well, Thank you for getting me addicted to that song, I do love being so addicted. :smallannoyed:

:smalltongue:

Kymme
2014-01-21, 09:57 PM
I choose Yugo mainly because he doesn't have much going on other than ZOMG PORTALS, but Quilby (also from Wakfu) could be an interesting alternative. Even if he's more of a Teramach/Doorlord.


It does.

I know, right? So good.


Unfortunately, I can't find a clip of Finn fighting the Doorlord in Adventure Time! Oh well.

If it's any consolation, I've already seen that episode. I don't get how I missed that idea, but I like the ones that I've got right now.


Well, Thank you for getting me addicted to that song, I do love being so addicted. :smallannoyed:

:smalltongue:

Hah. :smalltongue: Well, if I have anything, it's great good decent passable taste in music.

The Tygre
2014-01-22, 01:36 AM
I watched the first season, and I think it's worth a watch. Spoiler for off-topic tangent.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DIDN'T WATCH THE SECOND SEASON?!

YOU WANT MORE RUBILAX?!

YOU WANT YUGO TO BE INTERESTING?!

YOU WANT MORE DEMONIC MAGICAL ITEMS?!

THAT ALL HAPPENS IN SEASON 2

WATCH IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT

...

Or don't. It's up to you. Dofus is pretty good too.

Agrippa
2014-01-22, 03:53 AM
I have an account (http://imgur.com/a/EPekI) with Imgur (http://imgur.com/), but I'm pretty sure you can upload and link to stuff there without an account, if you so choose. Not sure though.

I've been trying to upload to Imgur. It's just not working so far.

Kapskaen
2014-01-22, 04:36 AM
While working on a Kathodos NPC for a game I'm running, I realized that he was still missing something that none of the other classes he had provided for him, so rather than wait for more Kathodos Mythos to be released, I thought I'd see if I could solve that dilemma myself.

I have no idea what level would be most appropriate for this Mythos, so I thought I'd let the forumites work that out for me :smallsmile:. I thought I'd post it in this thread instead of the actual Kathodos thread simply because it's seen more activity in the past few weeks, so I apologize in advance if that was the wrong thing to do.

Anyways, I'd appreciate it if people could have a read over it and see whether it's okay, and if not, tell me what they think needs fixing.

Reading the Dragon Lines
[Variable]

You expand your senses to better understand the elements around you. This Mythos gains any and all of the [Air], [Earth], [Fire], and [Water] descriptors that you qualify for (i.e. it gains the [Air] descriptor if you are capable of breathing, the [Water] descriptor if a significant portion of your body is composed of water, etc.)

You can detect the movement and manipulation of all elements to which this Mythos has the appropriate descriptors of, so long as the effect is question is within 10ft per class level. Such movement/manipulation can be natural (e.g. a hurricane, landslide, bushfire, or avalanche), or supernatural (e.g. another Kathodos using a Mythos like Geomantic Worldbender Assumption, or a caster using such spells/powers as Control Winds, Stone Shape, Control Flames, or Control Water).

Additionally, you can detect elementals with the appropriate subtypes within the same area.

Advanced
[I]Pulse of the Earth: [Earth] You tie your senses more closely to the flow of earth. As a move action, you gain Tremorsense out to a distance of 10ft + 5ft per 2 class levels for 1 minute. You must be in contact with the ground to use this, and you can only detect creatures that are likewise touching the ground. If you use this manifestation again before the duration expires, it is reset to 1 minute again.

Hear the Coming Storm: [Air] You tie your senses more closely to the flow of air. As a move action, you gain Blindsense out to a distance of 20ft + 5ft per class level for 1 minute. This ability only functions in air. If you use this manifestation again before the duration expires, it is reset to 1 minute again.

Sense the Lifeblood: [Water] You tie your senses more closely to the flow of water. As a move action, you gain Lifesense out to a distance of 10ft + 5ft per 2 class levels for 1 minute. This functions like Blindsight, save that it can only detect creatures and objects that can be considered 'alive'. Thus, it will pick up all manner of flora and fauna, but non-living creatures like Constructs and Undead are invisible to it, as are objects like buildings and furniture. If you use this manifestation again before the duration expires, it is reset to 1 minute again.

Mirage-Piercing Vision: [Fire] You tie your senses more closely to the flow of fire. As a move action, you gain the ability to see through Figments and Glamers as if using True Seeing, out to a distance of 10ft + 5ft per 2 class levels for 1 minute. Unlike True Seeing, however, this does not grant you the ability to see a shapeshifted creature's true form, not to see in darkness. If you use this manifestation again before the duration expires, it is reset to 1 minute again.

Amnoriath
2014-01-22, 12:20 PM
The mythic halfling is up on page 7, just needs a banner. Also here is some substitution levels.

Halfling Teramach

Hit Die: d10

Skill points: (6+int. modifier)x4 at first level, 6+int. modifer after

Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival, Swim, Tumble
Proficiencies: Halfling Teramachs are not proficient with any weapons, armor, or shields unless they have Halfling in the name.

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Mythos|Excellencie s

3rd|+3|+3|+3|+3|Primal Agility|+1|+0
5th|+5|+4|+4|+4|Primal Agility|+1|+0
10th|+10|+7|+7|+7|Monster's Path, Primitive Brutality II|+0|+0[/table]

Class features

Primal Agility: You may choose one of the following options. Additionally you may choose another from this list instead of getting another level of Primal Brutality.
1. Your mythos save DC's are now based off of dexterity and not strength.
2. Your melee attacks may now be based off of your dexterity modifier instead of strength.
3. Your monstrous rage no longer penalizes ranged attacks.
4. You may choose the uncanny dodge class feature as the rogue.
5. Any strength based skill now is based off your dexterity. You must have at least 5 levels of Teramach to select this and selected primal agility before.
6. You may now add your dexterity modifier to your damage rolls from either your mythos's or your weapons. You must have at least 5 levels of Teramach to select this and selected primal agility before.
7. Any mythos that would have added to your strength score may now add to your dexterity score. You must have at least 5 levels of Teramach to select this and selected primal agility before.
8. You may have the evasion class feature as the rogue. You must have at least 5 levels of Teramach to select this and selected primal agility before.
9. You may substitute your dexterity in strength checks dealing with overruning, bull-rushing, tripping, grappling, and sundering. You must have at least 5 levels of Teramach to select this and selected primal agility before.

Monster's Path: At level 10 you may ignore a number of squares of difficult terrain or hazardous ground equal to your dexterity modifier per round, however if you end your turn in such a square you suffer the effects as normal. This effectively replaces your excellency normally gained at this level.

Tychris1
2014-01-22, 01:36 PM
Challenge accepted. Now I need to make a Kathodos Mythos Halfling focussed on Earth who slings Magical Potato bullets and harvests the land.

Epic Farmer.:smallcool:

Xefas
2014-01-22, 03:54 PM
WATCH IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT

Alright, I'll stick it in the queue. But, uh... how much Rubilax are we talking? :smallconfused:


Anyways, I'd appreciate it if people could have a read over it and see whether it's okay, and if not, tell me what they think needs fixing.

Reading the Dragon Lines
[Variable]

You expand your senses to better understand the elements around you. This Mythos gains any and all of the [Air], [Earth], [Fire], and [Water] descriptors that you qualify for (i.e. it gains the [Air] descriptor if you are capable of breathing, the [Water] descriptor if a significant portion of your body is composed of water, etc.)

You can detect the movement and manipulation of all elements to which this Mythos has the appropriate descriptors of, so long as the effect is question is within 10ft per class level. Such movement/manipulation can be natural (e.g. a hurricane, landslide, bushfire, or avalanche), or supernatural (e.g. another Kathodos using a Mythos like Geomantic Worldbender Assumption, or a caster using such spells/powers as Control Winds, Stone Shape, Control Flames, or Control Water).

Additionally, you can detect elementals with the appropriate subtypes within the same area.

Advanced
[I]Pulse of the Earth: [Earth] You tie your senses more closely to the flow of earth. As a move action, you gain Tremorsense out to a distance of 10ft + 5ft per 2 class levels for 1 minute. You must be in contact with the ground to use this, and you can only detect creatures that are likewise touching the ground. If you use this manifestation again before the duration expires, it is reset to 1 minute again.

Hear the Coming Storm: [Air] You tie your senses more closely to the flow of air. As a move action, you gain Blindsense out to a distance of 20ft + 5ft per class level for 1 minute. This ability only functions in air. If you use this manifestation again before the duration expires, it is reset to 1 minute again.

Sense the Lifeblood: [Water] You tie your senses more closely to the flow of water. As a move action, you gain Lifesense out to a distance of 10ft + 5ft per 2 class levels for 1 minute. This functions like Blindsight, save that it can only detect creatures and objects that can be considered 'alive'. Thus, it will pick up all manner of flora and fauna, but non-living creatures like Constructs and Undead are invisible to it, as are objects like buildings and furniture. If you use this manifestation again before the duration expires, it is reset to 1 minute again.

Mirage-Piercing Vision: [Fire] You tie your senses more closely to the flow of fire. As a move action, you gain the ability to see through Figments and Glamers as if using True Seeing, out to a distance of 10ft + 5ft per 2 class levels for 1 minute. Unlike True Seeing, however, this does not grant you the ability to see a shapeshifted creature's true form, not to see in darkness. If you use this manifestation again before the duration expires, it is reset to 1 minute again.


This is really awesome, but needs clarification. It says that you can detect the natural movement of elements, such as random fires or landslides. But, is there meant to be a size limitation here? I feel like there's a lot of overlap here with the Advanced manifestations if there isn't some kind of limit. Sense The Lifeblood is a lot less impressive if the base Mythos already allows you to detect the movements of water through someone's sweat glands, and Hear The Coming Storm is a tad redundant if you can feel the movement of air caused by the displacement of a moving body.

Or perhaps, it would work better if the base Mythos allowed you to detect supernatural and magical movement of the elements, and Elementals, and each manifestation came with the ability to detect natural movements, which in turn justifies the granted ability. As in, you can detect all natural movements of air, from hurricanes to the wing-beats of a gnat, effectively granting you Blindsense out to Xft, etc, etc, so on so forth.

Also, how well do you detect Elementals? Is it just their presence or absence? Their general direction? Can you pinpoint their exact location? (I feel like you were probably leaning towards the last one, but I'm not sure.)

Amnoriath
2014-01-22, 04:34 PM
Challenge accepted. Now I need to make a Kathodos Mythos Halfling focussed on Earth who slings Magical Potato bullets and harvests the land.

Epic Farmer.:smallcool:

Thanks:smallwink:
Someone else want to critique it?

The Tygre
2014-01-22, 04:36 PM
Alright, I'll stick it in the queue. But, uh... how much Rubilax are we talking? :smallconfused:

Let me put it this way: telling you would be a pretty big spoiler.

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-23, 12:49 AM
So, yeah, I kinda Mythos'd all over my Dragons, sorry.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16847968#post16847968

Tychris1
2014-01-23, 01:11 AM
I don't have much critique for the Mythos Halfling, I like it as is.:smallbiggrin:

Responded to Mythos Dragon.

Primal Fury
2014-01-23, 01:17 AM
Okay... This kinda came outta nowhere, but I am apparently going to be making a Mythic bloodline, the Mythic Sorcerer. This isn't really out of lack of inspiration, it's because of TOO MUCH inspiration. Some of the ideas just don't fit the Tagati (experiencing a euphoric high when constantly using your power, and grow even MORE powerful, but at the risk of your own safety), but others do (telling someone's fortune, then forcing them to adhere to that fortune you gave them). EVERYONE GET'S THE TOWER!!! :smallfurious:

Anyway, here's the banner:

http://i.imgur.com/kiBLJJ8.png

GreaserFish
2014-01-23, 01:23 AM
You know, in a way, it makes sense that the Mythic Dragon would be a prestige class, rather than a simple mythos line.

True Dragons would be too proud to have it any other way, except maybe a full 20 level base class, but that would just be unwieldy, wouldn't it?

ShadowFireLance
2014-01-23, 01:29 AM
You know, in a way, it makes sense that the Mythic Dragon would be a prestige class, rather than a simple mythos line.

True Dragons would be too proud to have it any other way, except maybe a full 20 level base class, but that would just be unwieldy, wouldn't it?

Oh, Don't I know it. :smallsigh:

Anything to add to Tychris?

Kapskaen
2014-01-23, 04:20 AM
This is really awesome, but needs clarification. It says that you can detect the natural movement of elements, such as random fires or landslides. But, is there meant to be a size limitation here? I feel like there's a lot of overlap here with the Advanced manifestations if there isn't some kind of limit. Sense The Lifeblood is a lot less impressive if the base Mythos already allows you to detect the movements of water through someone's sweat glands, and Hear The Coming Storm is a tad redundant if you can feel the movement of air caused by the displacement of a moving body.

Thanks for the quick feedback Xefas. I'll admit, when I was writing that out, I didn't even think of either of those cases. The idea for this Mythos came to be when I re-watched Avatar: The Last Airbender; specifically, Book 2, when Toph was introduced, and it kinda went from there.


Or perhaps, it would work better if the base Mythos allowed you to detect supernatural and magical movement of the elements, and Elementals, and each manifestation came with the ability to detect natural movements, which in turn justifies the granted ability. As in, you can detect all natural movements of air, from hurricanes to the wing-beats of a gnat, effectively granting you Blindsense out to Xft, etc, etc, so on so forth.

I really do quite like this idea to fix it, where you start off only being able to detect when someone is screwing around with things, but when you take the advanced manifestations, you become more in tune with the natural movement of the element in question, which in turn grants you an extrasensory perception. Did you think the ranges on those were too much/too little?


Also, how well do you detect Elementals? Is it just their presence or absence? Their general direction? Can you pinpoint their exact location? (I feel like you were probably leaning towards the last one, but I'm not sure.)

Honestly, I hadn't defined this 100% in my own mind, it was just something that made sense at the time. It could probably work like the Detect Undead spell, where it takes a few rounds of concentrating for you to sense that elementals are around, how many there are, how strong they are, and which direction they're in.

GreaserFish
2014-01-23, 12:20 PM
Okay, so I figured I might as well post everything I have for the Aethenos due to my hitting a bit of a snag. I would have had at least the Conviction and Guilt system jury-rigged up but I realized how clunky and broken it was, so for now that's still on the drawing board.

Anything that's crossed out is subject to major changes.

Heretic Sundering Soulblade Strike
Prerequisite: -
Sometimes fools attempt to flee from the divine justice of the Judge. Other times, they believe they can hide from the blinding light of retribution by being out of the reach of his blade. Clearly these fools must realize that nothing can escape from the Judge or his justice, regardless of distance or defense. And so it is that regardless of any gap between him and his foe, the Judge shall cut down any heretics that stand against the path of justice.

As part of a standard attack with a melee weapon, you may choose to send out a wave of energy that travels in a straight line, so as to extend the reach of your attacks. This attack's range is extended by your weapon's reach multiplied by your current Conviction level. This attack has as many range increments as you do levels in Aethenos.

If this attack hits, it deals bonus damage equal to your current Conviction level, with a minimum of one. Otherwise, the damage is treated as if you had simply hit them with your weapon.

The wave of energy released from this attack can take whatever form best suits your Cause and Code; be it a shimmering blade of light, a malignant shadow stalking through the air, or a wave of biting insects.

Basic:
Burn Their Mongrel Hides: The bonus damage from this Mythos may be treated as an energy type associated with your cause at your choosing.

Righteous Rain of Arrows: This Mythos can be used with a ranged weapon so long as the attack is used against something outside of the first range increment of the weapon used. Otherwise, it is treated normally.

Advanced:
Long Arm of The Law: Instead of travelling in a straight line, the wave of energy released by this attack can curve around obstacles, negating bonuses from cover as long as the target is within range.

Legacy of The Blazing Spear: The wave of energy released by this attack can travel through any materials that do not disrupt magic. Additionally, anything the wave passes through takes full damage from the attack. This includes any armor that the target is wearing.
Furthermore, the attack is considered a touch attack for the purposes of armor class.

Forsaken Tongue Severing
Prerequisite: -
There are many ways that the unenlightened and the heretical can cause harm to the virtue of the Judge. One of the most often overlooked is with their vile speech of hatred. They call the Judge a lunatic, genocidal, a maniac. Some have even worse methods with their tongue, and they call their vile powers "Arcane", or "Truenaming". Regardless of the nature of their abilities, the solution is obvious. Simply cut out the tongues of the forsaken.

As one of your standard attacks; you make a melee touch attack against a foe capable of vocalizing, with a bonus to hit equal to your current Conviction level. If the attack hits, no damage is dealt, but the target is forced to make a Will save with DC equal to (10+Aethenos Level+Conviction-Guilt), or be rendered incapable of speech, and any abilities the rely on it cease to function. Abilities that do not rely on speech, such as a silenced spell, are not effected.

After Xd6 rounds have passed, where X is number of Aethenos class levels; speech is returned to the victim of this ability, but their voice is hoarse and dry for 1d10 minutes afterward.

Basic
Flay The Forsaken: At the end of every minute the target is silenced by the effects of this Mythos, they take 1d4 untyped damage for every level you have in Aethenos. You may choose to end this effect early, but the target remains silenced.

Crusader's Divine Toolkit: Instead of making a melee touch attack, you may instead make an attack with any weapon of your choice, including ranged weapons and natural weapons, with the normal bonuses and penalties in addition to the bonus from Conviction granted by this Mythos. Additionally, damage dealt by the weapon is halved instead of negated.

Advanced
Soul Crushing Strike: Whenever you successfully hit a target with the touch attack granted by Forsaken Tongue Severing and the target fails the Will save, in addition to losing speech and any abilities that rely on it, they also lose any supernatural or magical abilities they possess.

The Pyre With Silence For Kindling: Requires the Flay The Forsaken basic manifestation of this Mythos. Instead of dealing 1d4 untyped damage at the end of every minute, the target receives 1d8 points of damage in the energy type associated with your Cause. Otherwise, Flay The Forsaken remains unchanged.

Hellfire Curse Retaliation
Prerequisite: -
The mind and body of the Judge are sacred things. One does not merely desecrate them and get away without recompense. Any who believe that the Judge will suffer any curse or ailment without unleashing his terrible fury upon the one who ailed him so is a fool. Any who believe that the Judge will not come after them for their transgressions will be terribly surprised when they feel the fires of retribution cleanse their body of heresy.

Choose an energy type associated with your Cause. Once chosen, this energy type cannot be changed until you change Causes.

To use this ability, choose a target that has given you a status condition within the last twenty four hours. You will immediately know whether or not they are:

On the same plane as you.
Within 10 miles/Aethenos level.
Still alive. (In the case of entities that are not alive, such as undead or constructs, they are considered alive for the purposes of this Mythos so long as they are still animated.)

If all of the above are true, then you may make a Will save, with DC equal to (10+Distance in Miles From Target+Number of Status Conditions+Guilt+Target's Wisdom Mod). If you are successful, you may immediately remove any ongoing status conditions caused by the Target.

Additionally, the Target takes Xd6 points of damage of your chosen energy type, where X is the number of status ailments they inflicted you with.

Basic
Justice Knows No Bounds: So long as the target is on the same plane as you, they are vulnerable to the effects of this Mythos.

Pay Heresy Unto Heretics: Upon a successful use of this ability, you may force the target to make a Will save with DC equal to (10+Number of Status Conditions+Conviction+Your Wisdom Mod). If they fail this save, they are afflicted with the same conditions that you threw off.

Advanced
You Fought The Law: Requires the Justice Knows No Bounds basic manifestation of this Mythos. Upon taking this manifestation, no target is safe from this Mythos, even across Planes. However, attempting to use this Mythos against a target on a different plane causes the DC to activate the ability to be (30+Number of Status Conditions+Guilt+Target's Wisdom Mod).

Purge Heresy's Den: Successfully activating this Mythos grants you exact knowledge on the location of the target. For 1d4 minutes afterward, you are kept up to date on any movements they make, but this ability ends if they leave the threatened area from this Mythos.

Divinity In A Mortal Shell
Prerequisite: Religious Cause, Knowledge [Religion] 5 Ranks

The Spear That Slew was not a weapon of any single country or warrior. It was a servant of the Lawgivers, the Gods of Creation, and it served them to the best of its abilities. Likewise, many times has the narrative of the Judge been called upon to serve a God as their champion. In the face of such servants of divinity as the cleric or the paladin, the Judge alone may seem impotent. However, this is far from the case, for the cleric and the paladin themselves pay homage to the narrative of the Judge. They are, after all, devoted to a Cause. As a result, just as they may draw upon the legacy of the Judge, the Judge may draw upon them.

Pity-Breaking Mercy Rejection
Prerequesite: Must have slain an enemy that was begging for mercy without hesitation.
Not all are blessed with the Conviction that drives the Judge to pursue justice upon the blazing path to glory. Some members of the Flock, for whatever reason, make bad choices. They regret their actions even as they fall into heresy. Such is unknown to the Judge, and when his Flock houses heretics, he must take action. No matter how much begging and pleading the Sheep does, the Judge will not hesitate as he culls the offending members of his Flock. The Judge is a good shepherd, but he does not take heresy lightly. There can be no mercy for his foes, and he demands none in return.

While in battle, whenever you make a coup-de-grace attempt against an opponent that is either begging you for mercy or opposed to your Cause, you may make two attack rolls, as if you were attacking twice, but the second attack cannot be a critical hit. If the opponent is begging for mercy and opposed to your Cause, you may make three attack rolls, as if you were attacking three times, and all three are considered critical hits. The multiple attack rolls are all considered part of the same coup-de-grace attempt.

While Guilty, you deal an additional 2d4 points of damage whenever you hit an enemy that has shown you mercy in the past. This bonus is increased to 3d4 points of damage and you gain a +5 circumstance bonus to hit if the enemy showed you mercy that your Code would have prevented.



On Wings of Fate
Prerequisite: Balance 5 ranks
The Judge is no ordinary mortal. The Flock shuffles about with their eyes cast down, unsure of whether or not any given step is safe. The Judge knows better. They can feel it in their bones that their feet will be sure and swift. As a result, the Judge finds himself faster than his less convicted brethren, and much more qualified to rush to the aid of the Flock.

Subtract your Guilt from your Conviction and multiply the difference by half your base land speed, to a minimum of zero. Add the result to any speeds you may possess, as an enhancement bonus. While Guilty, you do not benifit from this excellency.

Purity of Mind, Purity of Body
Prerequisite: -
A sound soul resides within a sound mind and sound body. The Judge takes that to heart. So long as the path of the Aethenos remains clear, the Judge fears no sickness, be it natural or manmade.

While Convicted, whenever a disease or poison would force you to make a saving throw, you may make as many additional saves as you have Conviction level, with your Guilt level as a bonus to the Save DC.
If you have no Guilt level and full Conviction, you are immune to any diseases or poisons that would otherwise effect you. This includes magical diseases and poisons.

Stand And Fight!
The Judge cares not for the weak willed and the cowardly. Their weakness is heresy in the eyes of the perfection that is the Aethenos. However, the Judge understands that not all are worthy of becoming the Aethenos. When his Flock is cowed by the might of heresy, the Judge bellows out his command to stand their ground and draw their blades. And so it is that heresy is cowed by the might of the Aethenos.

Whenever you or one of your allies are targeted by a fear effect or a demoralize attempt (as per the Intimidate skill), you may interrupt them with your own demoralize attempt as a free action. If you are successful, the hostile fear effect/demoralize attempt is stopped in its tracks and the cause that attempted it is instead demoralized (Assuming it has capacity for such emotions) and you gain a point of Conviction. If you fail, the action proceeds as normal and you gain a level of Guilt.

Whenever you have full Conviction and no Guilt, you are immune to fear effects and demoralization.

Fixed Celestial Position Mantra
Prerequisite: Charisma 15
The Judge cannot be moved when he does not wish to be moved, and is unwavering as he is sure of his purpose. By invoking his Cause, the Judge can resist any attempt by Heresy to force the Judge away from the blazing path of the Aethenos.

As a swift action, you can invoke your Cause to protect yourself from effects that would displace you. After invoking your Cause and while Convicted, you are protected from movement that you do not allow for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier. This protection is not in the form of a bonus to any rolls or whatnot. It is merely a succinct "No" on the part of the Aethenos, refusing to budge from their place on the path. Any effect that would move you, be it mundane or magical, fails, for the duration of this ability.
Additionally, whenever something within reach of your attacks attempts to move you without your consent, you gain a free attack of opportunity, in addition to any you would normally have.

While Guilty, however, this ability functions differently. Instead of negating hostile displacement, you instead gain a bonus to resist hostile displacement that allows an opposing roll equal to the sum of your Conviction and Guilt, so long as the hostile effect is coming from a source that has caused your Guilt to rise within the last week. Additionally, this applies not only to things that would move you, but also things that would oppose your own movement. While under the effects of this Mythos and Guilty, you gain the same bonus to resist movement to things that would hamper your movement; such as paralysis, slowing, dimensional anchors, and etc; so long as the source is something that has caused you Guilt within the last week.

Primal Fury
2014-01-23, 02:45 PM
Heretic Sundering Soulblade Strike looks like a lot of fun.

On Forsaken Tongue Severing... Why is it a Will save to resist? I kinda get it, but it still seems an odd choice. And why did you remove Flay the Forsaken? It makes sense in context, though a little more so if it were fluffed as blood loss or something similar. What are you changing?

I like Hellfire Curse Retaliation too, though the time limit on Purge Heresy's Den seems way too short, why did you choose that number?

I REALLY like Pity-Breaking Mercy Rejection; deed based prerequisites is something I hadn't considered at the Exceptional level.

Stand and Fight! kinda feels like a Mythos in itself, not an Excellency. Why did you choose that?

What you've got looks pretty good, though I'd like to see the Conviction and Guilt mechanics. I feel like I'm only getting a portion of the class without them.

GreaserFish
2014-01-23, 04:20 PM
Heretic Sundering Soulblade Strike looks like a lot of fun.

It's very heavily based on the Skyward Strike from Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, if you're interested. Glad you like it, though.


On Forsaken Tongue Severing... Why is it a Will save to resist? I kinda get it, but it still seems an odd choice. And why did you remove Flay the Forsaken? It makes sense in context, though a little more so if it were fluffed as blood loss or something similar. What are you changing?

That's one of the Mythos I'm not so sure on what I'm doing. It feels clunky to me, and I definitely think it could all be better worded. I went with a Will save given that it's supposed to supernaturally remove someone's ability to speak, as opposed to literally removing the tongue from their mouth.

Flay the Forsaken was removed because it and its advanced version basically give you an upgrade and then downgrade it. It needs some serious reworking.


I like Hellfire Curse Retaliation too, though the time limit on Purge Heresy's Den seems way too short, why did you choose that number?

I pulled it out of my ass, honestly. I can see what you mean about it being too short, all things considered. Maybe have it be a number of hours? That might even give someone time to get out of the threatened zone through mundane means.


I REALLY like Pity-Breaking Mercy Rejection; deed based prerequisites is something I hadn't considered at the Exceptional level.

I'm not actually sure where any of these are in the different Mythos levels. You can thank THEChanger for that one.


Stand and Fight! kinda feels like a Mythos in itself, not an Excellency. Why did you choose that?

I felt like it doesn't actually do much aside from very situational bonuses. If I were to change it to a full on Mythos, I'd probably want to give it a much more useful bonus than what it does now.


What you've got looks pretty good, though I'd like to see the Conviction and Guilt mechanics. I feel like I'm only getting a portion of the class without them.

Yeah, as it stands, Conviction and Guilt are reworked whenever I sit down to work on the Aethenos. What I'm thinking so far is to have them sort of counteract each other. At the beginning of the day, your guilt removes some of the conviction you built up yesterday, and vice versa at the end of the day. Otherwise, whenever the Aethenos is awake, he's having his Conviction and Guilt swing one way or the other based on his actions and their consequences. Pretty much everything related to the two things is subject to serious rewriting.

Xefas
2014-01-23, 05:18 PM
I've watched the first three episodes. Fights are great, characters are flat but entertaining, music is nice, fanservice is sigh-worthy but largely inoffensive. Pretty good, I've no doubt I'll watch all of it.

Did you think the ranges on those were too much/too little?

I think they're a little on the small side. I'd change the Earth, Water, and Fire manifestations to scale at 10ft + 5ft per class level, and have the Air manifestation be 30ft + 5ft per class level, and put the Mythos at Exceptional tier.

I admit that I might have a tendency to undervalue perception-based abilities, though. Maybe someone else can weigh in on it.

Primal Fury
2014-01-23, 08:07 PM
Since my head is all jumbled up with respect to the Tagati now (too many ideas, no structure), I've decided to funnel some of those excess ideas into the Mythic Sorcerer.

Beyond Reserve and Spelltouched feats, are there any feats that might useful to play up the "Walking torrent of arcane power" theme? Or would it be better if I made stuff from whole cloth?

Adam1949
2014-01-23, 09:29 PM
Beyond Reserve and Spelltouched feats, are there any feats that might useful to play up the "Walking torrent of arcane power" theme? Or would it be better if I made stuff from whole cloth?

Metamagic feats, generally. In all honesty, though, the first thing I imagine when I hear "Walking Torrent of Arcane Power" is spell-like abilities, and lots of uses of them (potentially at-will).

In addition, with regards to whole-cloth design, a sorcerer is traditionally very proud and/or aware of their bloodline/heritage. Perhaps a Mythos that grants a bonus based on their lineage, with or without regards to their actual mechanical choices. (In other words, a multiclass Mythos/Sorcerer who takes, say, Draconic Bloodline as a feat might gain additional draconic abilities... but, they might just gain abilities from a different 'source' such as divinity or the Far Realm, simply due to their fluff of 'a bunch of mixed backgrounds combining into an arcane wellspring'.)

Primal Fury
2014-01-23, 10:06 PM
Metamagic feats, generally. In all honesty, though, the first thing I imagine when I hear "Walking Torrent of Arcane Power" is spell-like abilities, and lots of uses of them (potentially at-will).
That's specifically what I want to avoid. No actual spell casting, but throwing arcane power around like it's going out of style.


In addition, with regards to whole-cloth design, a sorcerer is traditionally very proud and/or aware of their bloodline/heritage. ...
Hm... Okay. Bloodlines of various types... Arrogance/Pride... Yeah, I think I can do something with that.

Tacitus
2014-01-23, 10:18 PM
You could have a set of Mythos that give you spell seeds. Say at base it gives you Element and Bolt with manifestations to add more elements or shapes, with either higher Mythos or just Advanced manifestations granting more obscure energy.
And right after I wrote that I realized that the Kathodos has that almost exactly. XD

Definitely need the ability to steal magic power out of people's defenses and items. If you give them a mana system or something you could make up a Mana Shield type mythos where damage is taken from arcane power before HP.

A mythos to turn off AMFs, probably Legendary or Exalted.

Primal Fury
2014-01-23, 10:33 PM
You could have a set of Mythos that give you spell seeds. Say at base it gives you Element and Bolt with manifestations to add more elements or shapes, with either higher Mythos or just Advanced manifestations granting more obscure energy.
And right after I wrote that I realized that the Kathodos has that almost exactly. XD
I think I will stick with Reserve and Spelltouched feats. Eventually, it will be raw arcane power they use, gaining resistance (and possibly selective immunity) to elemental damage.


Definitely need the ability to steal magic power out of people's defenses and items. If you give them a mana system or something you could make up a Mana Shield type mythos where damage is taken from arcane power before HP.
Yes on the magic stealing, not sure about the mana, but I might be able to make the shield work.


A mythos to turn off AMFs, probably Legendary or Exalted.
Has to be Legendary; Mythic races don't get Exalted Mythos. I like it though.

EDIT:But what about FREAKING SPELLFIRE?!?! How could I forget about that? :smallannoyed:

Tacitus
2014-01-23, 10:47 PM
Ah, I missed the race bit somehow. X.x Definitely need something about subsisting on pure magic rather than needing things like food and sleep, which could lead into spellfire, assuming you rework spellfire a bit, because as written its garbage.

Taking a cue from Xerath*, perhaps rooting yourself to draw power from your surroundings and blasting peoiple with raw magic (force damage agogo). Maybe the more magic you're high on the more resilient your body is or some such. If crossed with spellfire and you had a way to actually generate spellfire levels yourself without having to eat spells it could certainly be interesting.

*A League of Legends champion. He's mana given form wearing a bit of armor, really.

Primal Fury
2014-01-23, 10:54 PM
Ah, I missed the race bit somehow. X.x Definitely need something about subsisting on pure magic rather than needing things like food and sleep, which could lead into spellfire, assuming you rework spellfire a bit, because as written its garbage.
How so? I've never seen it in action, I just like the idea of it.


Maybe the more magic you're high on the more resilient your body is or some such.
I've already got the bare bones of "Euphoria" that makes you stronger the more magic you absorb and use.

THEChanger
2014-01-23, 11:46 PM
You can thank THEChanger for that one.

....

Yeah, as it stands, Conviction and Guilt are reworked whenever I sit down to work on the Aethenos. What I'm thinking so far is to have them sort of counteract each other. At the beginning of the day, your guilt removes some of the conviction you built up yesterday, and vice versa at the end of the day. Otherwise, whenever the Aethenos is awake, he's having his Conviction and Guilt swing one way or the other based on his actions and their consequences. Pretty much everything related to the two things is subject to serious rewriting.

Hi there! THEChanger, acting as assistant and idea-board for GreaserFish on the Aethenos. I figured I'd throw up the version of the Conviction/Guilt mechanics I have written down for people to look at. Ultimately, it's GreaserFish's class, but just for a sense of what the wording might look like.



Oath of Office: An Aethenos, above friends, above family, above themselves, above anything, is loyal to their Cause. Upon taking the first level of this class, an Aethenos must swear an Oath upon the shard of the Spear which is lodged within their heart. This Oath can be as simple or complex as the Aethenos desires, though both the DM and the player should agree on its content. The Oath should be an active one, forcing the Aethenos to always move forward, always act, always be forced to make the choice between peace and their mission. This is the Aethenos' Cause, their guiding light, the path their life must take from that point on. The Aethenos is driven to complete this goal no matter the personal cost. An Exceptional Aethenos feels a tickle in the back of their neck, pushing them along their new path. Upon receiving the first Fantastic Mythos, the Aethenos feels this tickle grow, becoming whispers from the Spear, showing them how to proceed. Legendary Aethenos constantly hear the buzzing call of their Cause, only finding relief when they have made significant strides toward its completion. Once the Aethenos lays claim to an Exalted Mythos, their mind is constantly flooded by the need of the Cause, the burning Spear lodged in their heart accepting nothing but pure devotion to their Oath.

So long as the Aethenos is devoted to their Cause, their legend will live on. Should the Aethenos ever decide to forsake a given Cause, or should their Oath be completed, the Aethenos may spend a week in contemplation and swear a new Oath, gaining a new Cause to which they must devote themselves. Without a Cause, an Aethenos cannot summon the devotion necessary to empower their Mythos. While it is incredibly difficult for an Aethenos to not act in such a way as to further the Cause, it carries no mechanical penalties-aside from the accumilation of Guilt.

Upon swearing their Oath, the Aethenos gains access to two pools of resources: Conviction, and Guilt. Conviction represents the will and faith the Aethenos has that their Cause is righteous and good, their belief that if they can just follow their Oath, everything will be alright. Guilt is the manifestation of the Aethenos' doubt, the cursed shadow which threatens to tear their purpose from its holy shrine. Conviction and Guilt can be gained in multiple ways, but can only ever be reduced by the effects of the Aethenos' Mythos - not even deity-level magic can affect the Aethenos' relation to their Cause. An Aethenos starts with one point of both Conviction and Guilt, and may never have more points of either than twice their Aethenos level. When an Aethenos swears their Oath, they may include up to three actions which add a point of Conviction to their pool. For each such action they include, they must also include an action which will add a point of Guilt to their pool. The DM should also include at least one action of each type. However, all Aetheni can gain Conviction and Guilt from the following sources:

-If a family member or close friend expresses approval of the Aethenos' actions in service of the Cause, they gain one point of Conviction. This may only occur once per person.
-If a family member or close friend expresses disapproval of the same, the Aethenos gains one point of Guilt. This may only occur once per person.
-If an Aethenos slays a creature which was preventing them from pursuing their Oath, they gain a point of Conviction-unless that creature was an ally, in which case the moral backlash causes the Aethenos to gain a point of Guilt.

Lastly, an Aethenos may spend a week in contemplation on their Oath in order to reduce both their Conviction and their Guilt by one.

Obviously, it's a little different from where GreaserFish is coming from, I think. On that note, some of the Mythos/Excellencies you posted, Greaser, refer to Conviction/Guilt points, and some to being Convicted/Guilty. Have you come to a decision as to whether you want to use the point system or the state system? Maybe both?

GreaserFish
2014-01-24, 12:07 AM
On that note, some of the Mythos/Excellencies you posted, Greaser, refer to Conviction/Guilt points, and some to being Convicted/Guilty. Have you come to a decision as to whether you want to use the point system or the state system? Maybe both?

Ah, I was wondering where you'd been. I sent you a reply, did you not get it? I was thinking that perhaps it would be best to have a combination of the two. Whichever one has more points determines what state you're in. (Or in the event of a tie, you go to guilty.)

And I wouldn't exactly call you my assistant. Consultant, maybe? Comrade? Compatriot? Accomplice?

Tacitus
2014-01-24, 12:10 AM
To obtain spellfire levels you have to ready an action to catch the spell and eat it. That alone makes it nigh useless unless you've got someone willing to dump spell levels into you out of combat, and a wizard in the party will probably laugh in your face at that. Then you go to use it and can deal 1d6 damage per spell level with a ranged touch attack... that also has a fixed DC reflex save... and half of it is fire damage. Or you can heal for 2hp per spell level. Jeebus bad.

Taking from the Spellfire Channeler PrC, you get more storage which is good, the ability to drain charged items which is kinda okay (if inefficient on anything but level 0 or 1 wands), possibly slightly better healing (1d4+1 vs 2), more blasting, ability to drain a permanent item for 24 hours to gain a fairly good benefit for it (1/2CL in levels), random flight and deflect arrows, and a moderately sized blast around the self and the actual interesting ability of a crown of spellfire. The last one would be awesome if it wasn't so expensive, came so late, and maybe scaled better.

However! Somewhere around these parts I believe someone did a remake of the PrC sorta. Hmm... yeah, Prodigal Explorer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11266234&postcount=10) by Hyooz! That fixes most of my problems, and despite the source of Spellfire Warrior (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Spellfire_Warrior_(3.5e_Class)) also does some work towards it, but doesn't fix it all.

THEChanger
2014-01-24, 12:12 AM
Ah, I was wondering where you'd been. I sent you a reply, did you not get it? I was thinking that perhaps it would be best to have a combination of the two. Whichever one has more points determines what state you're in. (Or in the event of a tie, you go to guilty.)

And I wouldn't exactly call you my assistant. Consultant, maybe? Comrade? Compatriot? Accomplice?

Ah! No, I never got that reply. I had wondered if I scared you away, but I figured I'd see you here eventually. And I'll start work on editing that into the doc I have.

I like the idea of being someone's accomplice.

Primal Fury
2014-01-24, 12:23 AM
Jeebus bad.
Oh. I forgot about the added reflex save. That IS bad.

I should be able to make it work though, thanks to the inspiration you've provided. :smallwink:

Amnoriath
2014-01-24, 09:25 AM
The Mythic Halfling

“I came from the end of bag, but no bag went over me. I am the friend of bears and the guest of eagles. I am Ring-winner and Luckwearer; and I am Barrel-rider.” Bilbo Baggins, a mythic halfling

During the aeon of creation the Gods stood perplexed at the material realms. According to all logical standards everything fit into place, however there the sat mulling over what they were missing. A smaller female God took particular interest in this absence. Her name was Yondalla.
No matter how hard she tried she wasn't satisfied. Dwarves had stone and metal from the ground and of well-being. Gnomes had song, art, and fervent creation riddled throughout their lives. Elves had patience, grace, and knowledge which ensures their higher echelon. Humans had innovation, adaptability, and balance spreading their vast cultures throughout the world. She then sighed in futility until a wandering traveler happened to shout her name.
Yondalla's aura flickered in surprise as her angular yet child face shot to meet his. She demmanded,"How did you know my name?"
"A guess, milady," the short man replied in cordial credulity.
The answer found in the sheer luck of his daring blurt. "What is your name sir?" she asked while in epiphany.
"Wileak, milady" he responded in kind. He blushed slightly as he was fiddling with his tools. He then recollected the tales of his journey. While Yondalla wasn't at all amazed at what he was reminiscing she took great interest in his reactions both then and now.
She then went to consult with the other gods to give a new race a divine touch of fortune and uncanny resourcefulness. The rest of the Gods bickered over the practicality and the entailments of such gifts. In union they belted "No!". Disguted with their arrogance and bureaucracy she went to see what she could do without notice. Instantly as she opened her books and tended her field cries of fustration and disbelief rang out from the halls. At a distance she noticed a striding figure dashing from a cataclysm undoubted created by the fury of the Gods. It was Wileak juggling his tools and what appeared to be shining dice. Before she could get there the destruction enveloped him. She ravaged through the rubble both out of concern and duty but she found no once of fabric or trinkets of the material realm other than a note saying, "We don't need you anymore," Betrayed and relieved she cultched her abdomen in perplexing anger as she lied to the counsel on the thief's fate.


Half the Size, Twice the Fortune
Prerequisites: Halfling, One Mythos
Benefit: You may add these mythos to any mythos class you have levels in. In addition you add one hit point per luck feat you know and your reroll pool is increased by 1.
Exceptional Mythos

Parsimonious Fortune Finder

You gain Miser's Fortune as a bonus feat. Additionally you can use the Search skill to look for items or gold with a competence bonus equal to half your mythos class level. You are treated as if you were trained in the skill even if you do not possess ranks in it. You may also choose from one of these basic manifestations. Additionally you may choose from one of the previous or following lists.

Resourceful Mono Devotion: You may select one item on your person to benefit from the Ancestral Relic feat with the following differences. It does not need to be of masterwork quality. You can only use the magical properties of the item in question and therefore does not possess value outside what it was before it undergone the ritual. Even if you couldn't normally use the item in question you can use it normally without failure. The item in question may not be an artifact, relic, or item of legacy.

Fortuitous Compact Forager: When you make a Search check you can instead look through 5 foot areas equal to one half your mythos class level. You may also use the Survival skill untrained as if you were trained with a competence bonus equal to half your mythos class level.

Wily Appraisal Intuition: You may make Appraise checks as if you were trained with a competence bonus equal to half your mythos class level. Additional you may increase your Appraise check by 5 to raise or lower the base value of the item in question by 2 percent. This may be increased up to time equal to one fourth you character level(max 5). However, because you are noticing something different you cannot truthfully appraise it to be higher if you have already apprasied it as being lower and vice versa.

Advanced: You can have your items reroll their saves by expending a roll from your luck pool. Your enemies may also be forced to reroll caster level checks against your items.

Omniscient Devout Custody: The caster level of the item you selected is now equal to your mythos class level. Additionally if you would ever lose the item you can take a full-round action the provokes an attack or opportunity to sense where it is as if you were there as well as know the general direction of where to go. If the item itself has senses you may use its senses if they are better. You may also expend two rerolls from your reroll pool to force an enemy to reroll any roll to avoid or reduce any effect from the item in question. You must have selected the Resourceful Mono Devotion manifestation to select this option.

Unearth the Cache: Once the DM rolls for loot and asserts the total value you may make a search check equal to have a part of the loot be something you specifically need. As such it replaces some of the loot with what you specifically you requested. This request can be a set of items but they all must be exactly the same. This check is equal 10+appraise check needed to determine its value. These items in question cannot exceed 10% of the total value of the loot. You may also try to request items of up to 20% of the total or two different items up to 10% each in which you must succeed at a check of 25+the larger appraise check. This may only be done once per loot roll. You may also expend 2 rerolls from your reroll pool to force the DM to roll for loot again taking the second result. You must have taken the Fortuitous Compact Forger manifestation to select this.

Transitive Market Deduction: You can now make appraise checks as full round actions instead of one minute. When inspecting an item you can appraise check using the knowledge skill rules to find out where it has been and who has used it. You may expend 2 rerolls from your reroll pool to reroll the result of any knowledge check. You must have taken the Wily Appraisal Intuition manifestation in order to select this option.

Expedient Aimless Wanderlust

You gain Lucky Start and Yondalla's Senses as bonus feats. Additionally if you expend a reroll from your reroll pool you can act in the surprise round but you are still considered flat footed if you couldn't normally act.

Miniscule Undaunted Luck

You gain Unbelievable Luck as a bonus feat. Additionally you may choose from one of these basic manifestations which each cost a luck reroll to use and lasts for one round.
You gain a luck bonus to your AC equal to 1d4+1.
You gain a luck bonus to your attack rolls equal to 1d4+1.
You gain a luck bonus to your saves equal to 1d4+1.
You gain a luck bonus to your damage rolls equal to 1d6+1.
You gain a luck bonus to Strength based skills and checks equal to 1d4+1.
You gain a luck bonus to Dexterity based skills and checks equal to 1d4+1.
You gain a luck bonus to Intelligence based skills and checks equal to 1d4+1.
You gain a luck bonus to Wisdom based skills and checks equal to 1d4+1.
You gain a luck bonus to Charisma based skills and checks equal to 1d4+1.

Advanced: Your luck feat rerolls now only take up a free action to use. You may also select from one more basic manifestation. At your mythos class level of 10 the die rolled to gain the luck bonuses is increased by one step and damage becomes 1d8+2. If you have taken levels in the Fortune's Friend prestige class you may burn a reroll as a free action to gain an extra swift or immediate action which only may be done once a round.

Dimunitive Ideal Form

You get Lucky Catch as a bonus feat even if you don't meet the prerequisites. You also may treat yourself as one size smaller any time it would be beneficial to you and gain a competence bonus to either balance, climb, jump, or tumble checks equal to half your mythos class level. Additionally if you expend a reroll from your pool you gain a climb and jumping speed equal to 5 times your mythos class level up to double your base speed. You are not considered flat-footed while climbing nor do your enemies get a special bonus against you. This lasts for rounds equal to double your mythos class level.

Fantastic Mythos

Gratuitous Pragmatic Slinger

Prerequisites: One Halfling Mythos Known
You gain Lucky Fingers as a bonus feat and may make special ammunition. As a full-round action you can make a bullet that does 1d6 damage. As you gain levels it acquires an enhancement bonus to attack and damage equal to one fourth your character level. It always bypasses damage reduction as if it were a magic weapon. If you are proficient with a Halfling skip rock this bullet may have the same special ability. You may also reload your sling or staff as a free action per attack you make, however special bullets take extra care and only can be reloaded once this way regardless of any feat you possess. They can choose to throw them as a splash weapon in which they only get the described effect below but they also may apply after a successful attack after the damage roll.

Tanglefoot Bullet: If the opponent fails on a reflex save they are rendered prone as well as entangled for rounds equal to your mythos class level. If they are flying they fall for the round in which they may make a dexterity check of 20 to regain flight the next round if they haven't hit the ground. If they succeed in the save they are only entangled for half the time.

Gust Bullet: If the opponent fails on a fortitude save they are pushed back 5 feet for every mythos class levels you possess. If they succeed it merely just halts movement of the current action. Undead and Constructs are not immune to this effect.

Resonating Bullet: An attack dealt with this kind of bullet deals sonic damage. Additionally the target is subject to the effects of the shatter spell with an effective caster level equal to your mythos class level. If used to attack an item specifically it can be used to make a sunder check with no penalty.

Weakening Bullet: The target takes a penalty to strength score and physical skill checks equal to 3+one fourth mythos class level for rounds equal to one half mythos class levels unless the succeed on a fortitude save in which the penalty and duration is halved. Undead and Constructs are not immune to this effect. These penalties are not culmulative.

Flashbang Bullet: The target is treated as blinded with a duration of rounds equal to one half mythos class levels unless it succeeds on a fortitude save. Regardless of the result all creatures have concealment within a 20 foot spread but so does any creature they attempt to target.

Explosive Bullet: Creatures within a 15 foot radius of the strike take half fire and half bludeoning damage equal to 2d6+1d6/3 mythos class levels unless they succed on a reflex save for half.

Hindering Bullet: The target takes a penalty to their dexterity score equal to 3+one fourth and cannot use a swift or immediate action neither may they run or charge for mythos class levels for one half mythos class level rounds. If they succeed on a reflex save they only suffer half the penalty for half the time. These penalties are not culmulative.

Beguiling Bullet: The target makes a will save or becomes confused and take a penalty to mental skills equal to 3+one fourth mythos class levels for rounds equal to one half mythos class levels. If they succeed they are not confused but do not know who attacked them and the penalty as well as the duration is halved. These penalties are not culmulative.

Venom Bullet: The target becomes afflicted with a poison. The target takes 1d6+1/4 mythos class levels points of constitution damage for both the primary and secondary damage rolling a fortitude save as normal.

Knockout Bullet: The target must succeed on a will save or be dazed for rounds equal to 1+1/4 mythos class levels. If they succeed they are only staggered for one round.

Advanced: Your bullets may now be treated as if being made of a special weapon material. You can expend two rerolls from your pool to prepare a special bullet you didn't know as a swift or immediate action. Special bullets made this way are effective for one minute per mythos class level you possess. Additionally you may select another special bullet to prepare.

Underestimated Effective Capability

Prerequisites: One Halfling Mythos Known
You gain Advantageous Avoidance as a bonus feat. Whenever a creature of at least one size category larger than you would succeed in making a check or attack against you, or you failing to do so against them you can use your failure to your advantage. Creatures of at two size catergories larger take a -1 penalty to this save and for every size category above. The creature makes a will save if successful they are one step friendlier to you up to friendly. If they fail they regard you as unworthy and do not attack you in any way. They also treat all their attribute modifiers in attacks, checks, damage rolls, and save DC's against you as if they were 10 unless they are worse until you succeed against them. After you succeed they may attack you again but their attributes are still treated as lowered for 1d4+1/5 mythos class levels you possess. A creature only makes one save per encounter because whether they fail or not they know it was fake. Mindless creatures are considered to automatically save but if they are rendered flat-footed by you up to one round afterwards they lose their attributes are effectively reduced as above for the time alloted. If you expend two rerolls from your pool you may automatically make an attack that bypasses any concealment whenever they would fail a check against you while their attributes are treated as 10 from this ability.

Legendary Mythos

Tenacious Eternal Kismet

Prerequisites: Two Halfling Mythos's Known
Your fortune now extends to your allies as you recognize their importance to yourself. You gain Good Karma and Dumb Luck as bonus feats. All your allies can benefit from your luck feats so long as they are in the same plane and they gain a reroll pool of two. If you possess the Miniscule Undaunted Luck mythos they also may benefit from your luck bonuses the same time you do. As long as you are within 60 feet of an ally you and the allies in that area may take full-round actions with no penalty in negative hit points and do not die unless they exceed their constitution scores in negative hit points. Additionally if you expend two rerolls from your pool as an immediate action you can try to dismiss any spell or like abilities as well as supernatural abilities. The creature targeted must prove to be an immediate threat to you or your ally and you must be able to see it. You make a mythos class level check modified by the attribute that fuels your save DC's against a DC of 10+HD+relevant attribute. If a permanent effect was dismissed it functions again 1d4+1/5 mythos class levels rounds later. If you are dismissing the effect of an item use its caster level modified by the creature's constitution modifier. For every 5 points you exceed that check you may cancel one more effect they have, however if you first dismissed an item you only can target another item unless it adds up to be the same DC or higher.

Nobody else?

VoodooPaladin
2014-01-24, 11:42 PM
Nobody else?

I would advise polishing up the formatting and giving it a thread of its own, since it seems to be quite full of material right now. A full review would take up a lot of space here, even though it would technically be on-topic.

Xefas
2014-01-26, 02:40 PM
Bellator is coming along. Potentially in a post-able state soon. Would like someone to look at this Mythos and see if I'm missing some aspect of Mirror's Edge'ing (Prince of Persia'ing, Jackie Chan'ing, etc) about the place. I've got the wall running, the weapon dragging, the vaulting over chest-high walls, the hopping between walls, the jumping down on people, the running across narrow surfaces, an Aladdin reference; I think I got everything. I don't necessarily need advice on mechanics - I just wanna know if there's some awesome-but-mundane obstacle-traversing motion that I'm missing.


Peerless Parkour Athleticism
Prerequisite: -

You gain Roofwalker (Cityscape) and Leap of the Heavens (PHBII) as bonus feats.

Other than the granted bonus feats, the benefits of this Mythos only apply if you are not suffering from any amount of Armor Check Penalty.

You may use the greatest of your Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution modifiers when determining your ability bonus on Balance, Climb, Jump, Swim, and Tumble checks (for brevity, these will hence be referred to as 'Athletic Skills' or 'Athletic Checks'). While you move, you gather momentum and your concentration sharpens; each Athletic check you make in a round gains a +2 bonus for each previous Athletic check you've made in the same round. In addition, when you take a Run action, you need not move in a straight line, so long as each change in direction is the result of an Athletic check (for example, running to an alley wall, climbing the wall, jumping backward onto the opposite wall, climbing that wall, then jumping onto the roof).

If you begin your movement on a solid surface, you may spend part of your movement traversing vertical surfaces as if you were moving on the ground. Transferring from floor to wall or wall to floor costs no movement, but if you end your movement unsupported, you begin to fall as normal.

As an immediate action, while you are falling, you may make a melee attack against a nearby surface in the hopes of driving your weapon into it and stopping your fall. If you hit and are able to overcome its hardness and deal damage, your weapon is wedged into the surface; you continue to fall for half the distance that you had already fallen before making this attack - if you have not yet impacted a surface, the weapon has halted you entirely, and you are now dangling from it. If this was not enough to keep you from hitting something, the final falling damage you take is still halved.

Advanced
Death From Above: You gain Roof-Jumper as a bonus feat. You may use the Urban Acrobatics function of that feat in non-urban environments, substituting natural paraphernalia in place of the trappings of a city.

Sure-Handed Athlete Practice: All skill points that you've spent in Athletic skills are immediately refunded. Each skill point you spend on an Athletic skill provides the normal skill rank for that skill, and also one rank in two other, different, Athletic skills. With the refunded skill points, you must immediately spend as many as you can on Athletic skills; if you still have some amount of points left over, and cannot spend them due to level limitations, they become free skill points that you may spend as you please the next time you level up.

One Jump Ahead Of The Hitmen: When you take a Charge or Withdraw action, you need not move in a straight line, so long as each change in direction is the result of an Athletic check.

Primal Fury
2014-01-26, 03:29 PM
The only thing I can think it might be missing is that "running up the wall, jumping off, then ending up behind your enemy" move. Or does that belong somewhere else?

It also makes me think that the Tagati should have some kind of movement Mythos, other than flying on a broom of course. Hm...

VoodooPaladin
2014-01-26, 03:52 PM
Well, off the top of my head, there's impromptu 'boarding (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCs42XSwI-c) (first 30 seconds) and rail grinding (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF2WxEB4oEU) (Form 0:10 pretty much onwards).
And then there's also the Indiana Jones/Catwoman-style "swing from a whip" technique.

commander panda
2014-01-26, 05:07 PM
stuff like pole vaulting and rope swinging would be pretty cool (basically, using items in the environment to help). also the ability to attack enemies on the run (for example, the kick to the face at 0:56 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAQuk52HRKE).) if you want really crazy (though a bit situationally specific) you could have the bellator use enemies as aids for the free running. stuff like using a mook's head as a springboard, or tackling someone off a roof then using them as a cushion to break your fall.

edit: also, a way to boost your max speed, if you reach a high enough bonus, could be really useful. right, no mechanical stuff.

Primal Fury
2014-01-27, 09:35 PM
Okay then... I think this mythos is in a very-nearly finished state. What do you guys think of it?

Boiling Corpse-Cauldron Catalyst:
Prerequisites: 4 ranks in Craft (Alchemy)

The gods made so many mistakes when crafting their mortal children; orcs are stupid, elves are frail, and humans aren't particularly good at anything. But in one facet of their construction, the gods outdid themselves: the liquids. Mortal bodies are filled with so many biles and secretions, making them playgrounds for any alchemist with the stomach to set the process in motion. Your blood, your black, foul, putrid blood, bestowed upon you by your Hag Mothers is all you need to tap into the secrets of these pitiful sacks of meat.

You gain the disturbing ability to turn dead bodies into complete alchemy labs by pouring a few drops of your blood in the corpses mouth. What follows, few have the stomach for; the corpse spasms, almost as if it means to rise up once again. The body bloats and swells, its stomach finally bursting with a sickening pop. The slurry within makes the perfect catalyst for any alchemical mixture imaginable, allowing the creation of poisons with Craft (Alchemy) at no penalty, and providing a bonus on all Craft (Alchemy) rolls equal to half your class level.

As one might expect, the corpse's toughness in life is directly proportional to its alchemical usefulness in death; the liquids inside are worth a number of gold pieces in raw materials equal to (Constitution Score x 5).

In addition, you gain Grenadier (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/grenadier--1321/) and Mad Alchemist (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/mad-alchemist--1812/) as bonus feats, using your Intelligence modifier as the bonus on attack and damage rolls on the former.

Advanced
Double, Double: The sludge in your corpse-cauldrons is particularly thick, yielding far more product than usual. You produce twice as much when creating alchemical mixtures and mythos with the [Alchemy] keyword. No witch worth her salt would ever waste ingredients, as even the leftovers can prove useful in a pinch. While there is no formal name for these leftovers, many have taken to calling it Swamp Hag's Surprise. There are a number of doses of this concoction left over equal to the bodies Constitution modifier. Its effects are determined using percentile dice. It can be used in two different was: as a thrown grenade weapon, or as a potion.

The effects when used as a thrown weapon are as follows:
{table=head]d% | Effect
1-20| Does nothing
21-40| Explodes, dealing 2d6 fire damage on a direct hit, and 1d4 fire damage as splash damage within 10 ft of the square struck
41-60| Release noxious fumes, sickening those within a 10 ft radius for (Intelligence modifier) rounds (Fort Save Negates)
61-80| Releases dazzling flash of light, blinding those within a 10 radius ft for (Intelligence modifier) rounds (Fort Save Negates)
81-100| Comes to life as an ooze, attacking the nearest creature for (Intelligence modifier) rounds*[/table]
The DC for all saves mentioned is (10 + 1/2 class level + Intelligence Modifier)
*:Use the statistics for the Gray Ooze. In addition, if the thrown potion makes a direct hit, the target must make a Reflex saving throw or automatically be grappled by the ooze. If the save succeeds, the target must take a 5ft step to an adjacent square.

The potion effects of Swamp Hag's Surprise are as follows:
{table=head]d% | Effect
1-20| Does nothing
21-40| Heals the imbiber for 2d6 hit points but sickens them
41-60| Drives the drinker into a barbarian's rage for (Intelligence modifier) rounds. They are fatigued afterwards
61-80| Grants Fire Resistance 10, but the target is infected with Red Ache. There is no incubation period; the Fortitude saves begin immediately
81-100| The drinker is freed from any charm or dominate effect, but contracts amnesia*[/table]
*:If your game does not have cut-and-dry rules for amnesia, there are some located here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/madness/amnesia).

Toil and Trouble: With a hiss and a whispered curse, you exude a pale green mist that infects your foes with doubt and weakness. You gain a 15-foot cone breath attack, rendering anyone within it Shaken, and reducing their movement per round by 10 feet; this effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier. The targets get a Will saving throw to resist this effect, the DC of which is (10 + 1/2 class level + Charisma Modifier). If, while Shaken, the target fails their save against the Distracting Blast ability, they become Frightened. If they are already Frightened, they become Panicked. This attack can only be used once every 1d4 rounds.

Fire Burn: Your command of the dark power flowing through your veins has gifted you with the ability to set things ablaze with nothing but a hateful glare. You gain a gaze attack out to 60 feet that sets unattended objects on fire. With creatures, or items in the possession of creatures, you must roll a ranged touch attack with an attack bonus equal to your Charisma modifier; if the attack hits, the target immediately takes (1d6 + Charisma Modifier) damage and catches fire. Each round thereafter, the target must roll a Reflex save to put out the fire, or take 1d6 fire damage; if the target was covered in lantern oil or alchemist fire at the moment of attack, by way of Fiery Blaze, they instead take 2d6 fire damage for each round they fail to put out the fire. Even when the fire is put out, the creature smokes for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier, blanketing an area 30 feet around them in a think smog that offers everyone within it 20% concealment. The ghostly embers continue to cling to the target, preventing them from benefiting from the concealment. This attack can only be used once every 1d4 rounds.

Cauldron Bubble: It is unbecoming of a witch to be ill-prepared, so has each step led to the mastery of priming your cauldrons. You gain a melee touch attack that boils the targets blood, driving them into a terrible rage. This touch requires both a Will and Fortitude saving throw, at DCs of (10 + 1/2 class level + Charisma Modifier). If the targets fails the Will save, then they are driven to a rage (as a barbarians rage), attacking the nearest creature other than the Tagati for the first round, than any other creature for the next (Charisma Modifier) rounds. If the target fails the Fortitude save, they take one Constitution damage, and another point of damage each round they fail their subsequent saving throws, for (Charisma Modifier) rounds, at which point the effect ends. Once the effects end, the target is Sickened for (Charisma Modifier) rounds; if they enter, or become adjacent to, a square of difficult terrain created by Tanglefoot Defense, they must make a Fortitude saving throw at DC (10 + 1/2 class level + Intelligence Modifier), or be nauseated for the remainder. If the target dies while their blood boils, their corpse bursts as though they were primed by Boiling Corpse-Cauldron Catalyst, and cuts all crafting times for items made with Craft (Alchemy) in half. If the target is suffering from the effects of Toil and Trouble, they take a -2 penalty to their Will save, while if the target is on fire or smoking as a result of Fire Burn, they take a -2 penalty to their Fortitude saves for as long as they retain either condition. This attack can only be used once every 1d4 rounds.
I'm a little sketchy on the potion effects of Swamp Hag's Surprise... Should they allow for a saving throw? Or do the automatic effects make up for that?