Which would be better scout or ninja?

[IIzak]

So I'm going to be running a group here pretty soon and after talking with all the people in it here's the basic breakdown of the group (It's going to seem very stereotypical and I want you to know that it's completely accidental)

Human Fighter
Human Cleric (Undecided deity)
Human Wizard
____________

The last person on the list narrowed what they wanted to play down to scout and ninja (I know, I know, we were extremely close to one of the most stereotypical dnd parties ever), and to be honest i haven't seen a ton of material on either of these classes, so I wanted to get the playground's opinion on which would be a better build for the person (They are a little newer to DnD, but not table top games in general) so I could make a good recommendation for them.

Most books are welcome, just no ToB please. I just don't feel like introducing another confusing aspect into the game when several of the people it will be their first time playing in this system. Thanks in advance for the assistance.

[CRtwenty]

Scout is generally considered a better class than Ninja. Make sure that the players fully understand how combat movement, tumble, and AoOs work though, since both classes rely heavily on strategic movement in combat.

[LordBiscuit]

Nothing wrong with steriotypical, easpically if these are first time DnDer's. It helps then grasp a broad range of roles in a set of packages.

Ninja is an amusing class, but ultimately is too much baggage to actually play effectively, easpically for a new player (due to having an inferior version of sneak attack, and cool, if somewhat limited Ki features).

Since I assume he's already ruled Rogue out (which is a decent class in it's own right that can easily go into the prestiage class assissin, if he wanted to go for that ninja effect) scout is probably the best choice. That being said if he wants to make a hand to hand character who is also a skill monkey, he's better off starting off as a rogue since sneak attack damage is generally more reliable in a party with two combatants (I count the cleric as one).

There is a Scout Handbook, but in essence you want to be going full out bowman and he will need to figure out ways to make full round attacks from 8th level onwards while moving. Greater Mult-shot (found in Expanded Psionics Handbook) is probably the feat he should be aiming for to maxmize his damage potenical against multiple targets. With improved skermisher it could really come into it's own at level 9, that should give him time to figure out what else he wants to do.

Melee combat isn't really plasiable as otherwise they can end up eating a lot of AOO, and can't really make use of their movement. If he wants to be a melee character, he's better playing as another class that can deal damage more reliably unless he goes the two weapon fighting route and obtains pounce to allow him to barrel into combat without giving up the extra attacks.

This article may be of use to him. http://dictummortuum.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/swift-hunters-handbook.html Which keys off the assumption that ranger will be his main class.

[Metahuman1]

Tell him to do the following.

Take 1 level of Scout. Take the Swift Hunter feat and Weapons Finesse.

Dip Cleric for 1 level. Open up Complete Champion and Spell Compendium, Take Lust Domain or Undeath Domain for more turn attempts, and Travel Devotion.

Dip Barbarian for 1 level, open complete champion, take the spirit lion totem barbarian Alternative class Feature. Take the Improved Skirmish Feat.

Progress into Ranger form there, straight class, Two weapon Fighting style, get as many different favored enemy's as possible and make all of them things that would normally be immune to Skirmish damage. I'm away from books as I advise this, so I forget if Ranger needs the Alternative Class Feature in Dungeonscape or not to have Search as a class skill. If so, grab it, if not, doesn't matter.

Tell him to enjoy having lots of skills and being able to charge, full Two Weapon Fighting Attack for skirmish damage that by-passes immunity and does as much damage as a full TWF attack for sneak attack would at his level, and then swift action move away so that he can do it again next round.

[Dread_Head]

Tell him to do the following.

Take 1 level of Scout. Take the Swift Hunter feat and Weapons Finesse.

Dip Cleric for 1 level. Open up Complete Champion and Spell Compendium, Take Lust Domain or Undeath Domain for more turn attempts, and Travel Devotion.

Dip Barbarian for 1 level, open complete champion, take the spirit lion totem barbarian Alternative class Feature. Take the Improved Skirmish Feat.

Progress into Ranger form there, straight class, Two weapon Fighting style, get as many different favored enemy's as possible and make all of them things that would normally be immune to Skirmish damage. I'm away from books as I advise this, so I forget if Ranger needs the Alternative Class Feature in Dungeonscape or not to have Search as a class skill. If so, grab it, if not, doesn't matter.

Tell him to enjoy having lots of skills and being able to charge, full Two Weapon Fighting Attack for skirmish damage that by-passes immunity and does as much damage as a full TWF attack for sneak attack would at his level, and then swift action move away so that he can do it again next round.

Swift Hunter requires 3 levels of scout to take, and if you're taking three levels then you might as well take the 4th, you don't lose and BAB and you gain a bonus feat. Something like Scout 3 / Cloistered Cleric 1 (grab knowledge devotion as well) / Spirit Lion Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 1 / Ranger 2 / Scout 1 / Ranger 12 would be my recommended build for a melee swift hunter.

Perhaps a little complicated for a first time player though, I believe the archery style is a little simpler. Go Scout 4 / Ranger 16 focusing on the manyshot tree to shoot multiple arrows whilst moving, and take swift hunter & improved skirmish. Added bonus of Ranger giving some of the archery feat for free.