The "I Can't Believe It's Not ToB" Combat Style/Maneuver System: Now Complete! [Archive]

Golthur

2007-01-20, 05:54 PM

PRECISION OVERVIEW

The precision style relies on accurate blows, and knowledge of the vital areas of your opponent. A practitioner of the precision style inflicts extremely accurate, damaging blows that often have secondary effects.

The precision style is probably the least-developed of all the styles, mostly because I have one huge glaring game-design issue. Although I want things like bleeding strikes and so on, I don't want to bypass the VP/WP system to do so. That is, unless you inflict wound damage these things shouldn't have much of an effect. This is the major kink in the works for these maneuvers - I'm not really starved for ideas, I'm starved for mechanics. Suggestions are more than welcome.

SPECIAL RULES

GATEWAY FEATS

WEAPON FINESSE [Combat: Precision]
As per PHB.

COMBAT TECHNIQUE (PRECISION) [Combat: Precision]
You know how to place your blows accurately and effectively.
Prerequisites: Weapon Finesse.
Benefit: Technique (Precision) is now a class skill for you.

OTHER FEATS

PRECISION MANEUVERS

BREACH ARMOUR [Precision 9 & Armour 1]
You can find and exploit the weak points in armour. With a fast or average piercing weapon, use an attack to make a special strike - you suffer a -4 penalty on this attack, but if you beat your opponent's Defense by 10 or more, you ignore any DR due to armour (if worn) or natural armour. You may only breach the outermost layer of armour or natural armour using this maneuver.
Special: Like all maneuvers that use an attack, you may only use this maneuver once in a round. You may not use this maneuver with an off-hand attack, unless you possess the Main Gauche feat.

FINISHING MOVE [Precision 5]
You can rapidly dispatch downed foes. You can perform a coup de grace against a downed or helpless foe as a standard action instead of a full round action.
Normal: A coup de grace requires a full round action.

NAUSEATING STRIKE [Precision 14]
You can strike an opponent's vital areas and render them nearly helpless. Make a nerve strike, as normal. However, instead of suffering an additional +2d6 damage if he fails his saving throw, instead your target is nauseated (unable to perform anything more than a single move action per turn) for 1d4 rounds, plus one additional round per time you have purchased the Nerve Strike maneuver. The victim gains a +4 bonus on their saving throw due to the difficulty of properly striking the correct combination of nerves.
Other Prerequisites: Nerve Strike maneuver.

NERVE STRIKE [Precision 4 & Unarmed 4]
You can strike an opponent's vital areas for devastating effect. As an attack, you may opt to make a nerve strike. You may only make a nerve strike when attacking unarmed.

First, you must make a regular attack with a -8 penalty. You must also spend vitality on the strike, and you can spend up to one point of vitality per rank you possess in Technique (Precision) or Technique (Unarmed), whichever is lower. If you miss, nothing happens, except that you still lose the vitality. If you hit, you inflict damage as normal.

If you inflict at least a single point of damage to your opponent, the opponent then must make a Fortitude save (DC = 10 + half the vitality spent plus your Wisdom modifier). The opponent gets an anatomy bonus on their saving throw, based on how different their anatomy is from a standard humanoid:
{table="head"]Anatomy/Monster Type|Bonus
Normal anatomy (humanoid, giant)|+0
Mildly different anatomy (animal, monstrous humanoid)|+4
Severely different anatomy (vermin)|+8
Magical or bizarre anatomy (fey, dragon, aberration)|+12
No discernible or nonfunctional anatomy (construct, elemental, undead, plant, ooze)|Immune
[/table]

Opponents that have concealment, are incorporeal, or are immune to critical hits cannot be affected by a nerve strike. Any creature more than one size category larger than you cannot be affected by a nerve strike.

If the opponent fails their saving throw, you inflict an additional +2d6 points of precision damage. This additional damage does not stack with other sources of precision damage, such as the Sneak Attack feat.

So long as you pay the vitality cost, you may make as many nerve strikes as you choose, but you may only use a single nerve strike in a round. If you possess multiple types of nerve strike, you may still only make a single nerve strike of any kind in a round.
Special: You may take this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, you must have 4 more ranks in Technique (Precision) and Technique (Unarmed), and it increases the damage you inflict on a nerve strike by an additional +1d6.

PAIN STRIKE [Precision 10]
You can inflict pain by striking the correct pressure points. Make a nerve strike, as normal. However, instead of suffering an additional +2d6 damage if he fails his saving throw, instead your target suffers wracking pain for 1d4 rounds, plus one additional round per time you have purchased the Nerve Strike maneuver. He suffers a -4 penalty on all attack rolls, skill checks, and ability checks. In addition, if he performs any action that requires mental focus, he must make a DC 15 Concentration check to do so. The victim gains a +2 bonus on their saving throw due to the difficulty of properly striking the correct combination of nerves.
Other Prerequisites: Nerve Strike maneuver.

PARALYZING STRIKE [Precision 18]
You can paralyze an opponent by striking the correct pressure points. Make a nerve strike, as normal. However, instead of suffering an additional +2d6 points of damage if he fails his saving throw, instead your opponent is paralyzed for 1d4 rounds, plus one additional round per time you have purchased the Nerve Strike maneuver. The victim gains a +6 bonus on their saving throw due to the difficulty of properly striking the correct combination of nerves.
Other Prequisites: Nerve Strike maneuver.

THE "WORK PENDING" ZONE
Sneak Attack is being turned into a maneuver, but it's currently in here, pending a final set of mechanics. For now, here's the original version.

SNEAK ATTACK [Combat: Anatomy]
You can perform a damaging strike to vital areas when your opponent is not expecting it.
Prerequisites: Technique: Anatomy 2+ ranks, Hide 4+ ranks, Move Silently 4+ ranks.
Benefit: If you attack an opponent who is flat-footed or otherwise denied their active Defense bonuses, you gain +1d6 anatomy damage on your attack.
If you use this maneuver with a ranged weapon, you must be within 30 feet to gain your sneak attack damage. If multiple attacks are determined by the same roll (such as with Manyshot), the sneak attack damage is only applied once.
Creatures with concealment, creatures without discernible anatomies and nonliving creatures (such as oozes, constructs, plants, and undead) cannot be affected by a sneak attack.

IMPROVED SNEAK ATTACK [Precision 6]
Your sneak attack improves. When performing a sneak attack, you inflict an additional +1d6 precision damage.
Special: You may take this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, you require 3 more ranks each in Technique (Anatomy), Hide, and Move Silently.
Other Prerequisites: Hide 6+ ranks, Move Silently 6+ ranks.

That's it for these ones...

Golthur

2007-01-20, 05:55 PM

ARMOUR OVERVIEW

The armour style relies on the effective use of armour and shield, as well as various defensive fighting techniques. Practioners of this style usually favour heavier armour and shields. Many armour maneuvers make use of defensive focus points, granted through the Defensive Focus maneuver.

SPECIAL RULES

GATEWAY FEATS

COMBAT TECHNIQUE (ARMOUR) [Combat: Armour]
Prerequisites: Armour Proficiency, Medium; Shield Proficiency.
Benefit: Technique (Armour) is now a class skill for you.

OTHER FEATS

ARMOUR MANEUVERS

ARMOUR MASTERY [Armour 3]
You can make more skilled use of your armour to deflect attacks. Reduce the amount that your class defense bonus is hampered by your armour by 2 (NOTE: I have light armour reduce class defense bonuses by 4, medium by 8, heavy by 12).
Special: You may take this maneuver more than once. Its effects stack. Each time you take the maneuver, you must possess 3 more ranks in Technique (Armour).

BLOCK [Armour 3]
You can deflect attacks with your shield. Sacrifice an attack. Your opponent's next attack against you within the same round suffers a penalty equal to your attack bonus for the sacrificed attack (and adding your Strength modifier). If the opponent does not strike you within the round, your block is wasted. You can use a readied action to make sure your block works. You can only block an attack from an opponent that you are aware of and can see.
If you are wearing armour that provides at least DR 4/- and covers your arms, you can also deflect attacks with your arm. You do so as if using the unarmed variant of Block, see the Unarmed section for more details.
Special: Like most maneuvers that use an attack, you may only use Block once per round.

COMBAT MAGNET [Armour 4]
You can protect your allies from harm. For any melee attack against an adjacent ally from a foe who could also attack you, you may expend one point of defensive focus as a reactive free action to force the attack to be directed at you instead of your ally. You expend the point of defensive focus (and thus lower your Defense by one point) prior to the attack being resolved.

CREATE OPENING [Armour 8]
You can use your defensive abilities to create openings and take advantage of them. When an opponent attacks you and misses due to your defensive focus bonus, or hits you and the damage is completely absorbed by your armour, you can create and take advantage of an opening on your foe.

Expend 3 points of defensive focus to take an immediate attack of opportunity against your foe.

DEFENSIVE FOCUS [Armour 4]
You can acquire and use defensive focus to enhance your defensive capabilities. Whenever you fight defensively, use the Guard maneuver, or use the total defense action, you automatically acquire a number of defensive focus points equal to the total Defense bonus you gained from your defensive technique plus any active (but not passive) Defense bonuses due to a shield.

You may use these points to power Armour maneuvers. Each point you use decreases your Defense by 1 point immediately. Any attack which happens after you've used the point uses your reduced Defense. You may not spend more points of defensive focus than you possess.

DESPERATE DEFENSE [Armour 6]
When circumstances turn dire, you can push yourself beyond your normal limits. You can expend more points of defensive focus than you actually possess, although you must possess at least one point of defensive focus to use this maneuver. Once you have expended all of your defensive focus, you may not use this maneuver again - essentially, this maneuver is good for one additional use of a maneuver beyond your normal limit.

Each point you spend beyond your normal limit costs you 5 points of vitality.

FORTIFIED DEFENSE [Armour 8]
You can turn aside blows that would otherwise be lethal. You can expend one point of defensive focus to negate one die of additional precision- or speed-based damage (such as from a sneak attack). You may expend multiple points of focus to negate multiple dice.

If you possess at least 10 points of defensive focus, you may expend all of it to negate the effects of a critical hit. Regardless of how much defensive focus you possess, you must expend all of it to negate a critical hit.

Since you must be using defensive focus to use this maneuver, it is not effective when you are flat-footed or otherwise caught unaware, but it is effective against bonus damage due to skill or flanking.

GUARD [Tactical 4, Armoured 4]
See Tactical section for full details.

REACTIVE BLOCK [Armour 5]
You use your shield instinctively. When subject to an attack that would deny you your active Defense bonuses, you may treat up to two points of your active Defense bonuses due to your shield as if they were passive.

You are still considered to be denied your active Defense bonuses, but your Defense is higher than it normally would be.

You may not use this maneuver if you are explicitly denied the use of your shield, such as when subjected to the Pin Shield maneuver, or if you have used your shield to attack during the same round (and don't possess the Shield Bash maneuver).

SHARE SHIELD [Armour 5]
You can defend yourself as well as an ally. On your turn each round, you may divide your active shield bonus to Defense between you and a character in an adjacent square as a free action. You can portion the bonus however you like. Your new Defense remains until the start of your action next round. The other character retains your shield bonus so long as they remain in the designated square.

If you use this maneuver together with the Defensive Focus maneuver, you only gain defensive focus for the portion of your shield's bonus assigned to you.

SHIELD BASH [Armour 4]
You can both attack with your shield and use it for defense at the same time. When attacking with your shield in your off hand, you retain one point each of active (if possessed) and passive cover bonuses due to your shield.
Normal: When you attack with your shield, you lose its benefits until the start of your action in the next round.
Special: You may take this maneuver more than once. Its effects stack. Each time you do, you must possess 3 more ranks in Technique (Armour).

SHIELD MASTERY [Armour 2]
You are more effective at using your shield for defense. When you use your shield, you gain an additional +1 active cover bonus to your Defense. If you are performing the total defense action, this bonus doubles to +2.
Special: You may take this maneuver more than once. Its effects stack. Each time you do, you must possess 3 more ranks in Technique (Armour).

UNYIELDING DEFENSE [Armour 10]
By adopting a defensive posture, you can use your armour more effectively. When fighting defensively, using the total defense action, or using the Guard maneuver, your armour's effective DR increases by one point. For all purposes, this DR bonus is considered to be part of your armour's DR.
Special: You may take this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, your armour's DR when fighting defensively increases by another point, but you must possess 3 more ranks in Technique (Armour) each time.

You may use this maneuver together with the Defensive Focus maneuver and any other maneuvers that use defensive focus.

That's all that's well-developed...

Golthur

2007-01-20, 05:56 PM

CONDITIONING OVERVIEW

These techniques rely on physical and mental conditioning - training your body and mind to do things that they were not normally meant to do.

More advanced Conditioning techniques make use of ki, a special power that comes from the life energy of the warrior. With ki, the warrior can perform things that seem magical.

SPECIAL RULES

Combat Rule - Swarming: I implement a rule that when someone is attacked by more than one foe simultaneously, all foes gain a cumulative +1 circumstance bonus per foe beyond the first to their attack rolls. This goes beyond flanking.

GATEWAY FEATS

TOUGHNESS [Combat: Conditioning]
Benefit: You gain 2 wound points.
Special: You may take this feat more than once. Its effects stack. You may only select this feat once per three character levels (round up).

CALM [Combat: Conditioning]
Prerequisites: Wis 13+, Concentration 4+ ranks.
Benefit: You can remain calm in a fight, granting you an advantage over others who lose control. Once per day, you may take 10 on any attack roll, initiative roll, or skill check during combat. You may also apply your Wisdom bonus as an insight bonus to this roll. You may not use this feat outside of combat.

COMBAT TECHNIQUE (CONDITIONING) [Combat: Conditioning]
Prerequisites: Either Con 13+ and Toughness, or Calm.
Benefit: Technique(Conditioning) is now a class skill for you.

OTHER FEATS

KI [Combat: Conditioning]
Prerequisites: Calm, Technique (Conditioning) 6+ ranks.
Benefit: You can call upon your Ki, which allows to to make use of Ki maneuvers.

You gain a Ki pool that permits you a number of Ki uses per day equal to your Wisdom modifier.

Your Ki gives you a reservoir of calm strength. So long as even a single use of Ki remains unspent, you gain a +2 ki bonus on saving throws vs. mind-altering effects.

Using your Ki requires mental focus, and may require a Concentration check if you are distracted or suffering damage. It also requires a certain level of calm, so you may not call upon your Ki if you are suffering from fear – e.g. if you are shaken, frightened or panicked.

This feat alone permits you only to use your Ki in an emergency – as an immediate action, you may expend one use of your Ki to grant yourself a ki bonus equal to +1 per Ki maneuver you possess on any Reflex saving throw (which, unfortunately, if you have no Ki maneuvers, is +0).

IRON SKIN [Combat: Conditioning]
Prerequisites: Con 13+, Technique: Conditioning 12+ ranks.
Benefit: Through training, your skin has become hard and thick. You gain 1 point of damage reduction due to natural armour. This damage reduction stacks with any armour worn.
Special: You may select this feat more than once. Its effects stack. Each time you select it, you must have 5 more ranks in Technique: Conditioning, and 2 more points of Constitution.

And a couple o' ninja-style feats just for fun...

LEAP OF THE CLOUDS [Skills: Acrobatics]
Prerequisites: Jump 10+ ranks, Great Leap, Ki.
Benefit: You can use your Ki to permit you to make mighty leaps. By expending a use of Ki for the day, you may make a Jump check with no running start, without doubling the Jump check DC. You gain a ki bonus equal to the number of ki maneuvers you possess on the check. Similar to Great Leap, if you have at least a 10' running start, you gain a +5 competence bonus to your jump check when using Leap of the Clouds. If you have at least a 20' running start, you gain a +10 competence bonus.
Normal: All Jump checks require a 20-foot running start to avoid doubling the DC of the check.

VANISH [Skills: Stealth]
Prerequisites: Hide 10+ ranks, Move Silently 10+ ranks, Stealthy, Ki.
Benefit: You can use your Ki to hide even when being watched. As a move action, you may expend a use of your Ki for the day and hide while in plain sight. There still must be cover or concealment within 1' per rank you possess in Hide for you to hide.

CONDITIONING MANEUVERS

ARMY OF ONE [Conditioning 4]
You have trained to fight multiple opponents at once. You reduce the effectiveness of swarming by one creature. That is, if you are attacked simultaneously by three creatures, each only gains a +1 bonus on their attack rolls (instead of the normal +2). If you are attacked by two creatures, they gain no swarming bonus.
Special: You may take this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, you must possess 3 more ranks in Technique (Conditioning) and you reduce the effectiveness of swarming by one additional creature.

DANGER SENSE [Conditioning 12]
You perceive threats immediately, giving you time to react. You may expend 10 vitality points, or a single use of ki at the beginning of any round to negate the effects of being flat-footed, or as an reactive free action in response to any effect which causes you to be denied your active Defense bonuses. Doing so negates the effect for a round. This maneuver has no effect if your character is helpless.

BLIND-FIGHT [Conditioning 4]
You can effectively fight invisible or concealed opponents. If an opponent is within 5' of you, you may make a Spot and/or Listen check (as appropriate) as a free action once per round to locate the square your foe is in. A foe you have located does not gain the normal benefits for attacking an opponent while unseen.

Sense Opponent: By taking a full round action to locate your opponent, you may take 20 on the Spot and/or Listen check to locate them.

Ignore Miss Chance: You may expend 3 vitality points to ignore the miss chance against a concealed or invisible foe for a single attack. You must declare this before you make your attack roll.
Special: You may select this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, you increase the range of your Blind-Fight ability by 10', and you must possess 3 more ranks in Technique (Conditioning). You may use ranged weapons against foes within range of your ability.

HARDENED [Conditioning 9]
You are difficult to faze in combat. You can expend 5 vitality points (or a use of Ki) to negate any of the following conditions for one round: sickened, shaken, dazed, dazzled, or fatigued. This maneuver is an exception to the general "you can't use Ki when you're subject to fear" rule.

Likewise, you can reduce the potency of the following conditions for one round - nauseated (you become sickened instead), frightened (you become shaken instead), panicked (you become frightened instead), paralyzed (you become stunned instead), stunned (you become dazed instead), or exhausted (you become fatigued instead).

You may continue to use this maneuver round after round to hold an effect "at bay", and operate normally - so long as you pay the cost each round to do so.

INDOMITABLE [Conditioning 15]
You are an unstoppable juggernaut. You can expend 10 vitality points (or a use of Ki) to negate any of the conditions that can be negated with Hardened, or any of the following conditions for one round: nauseated, panicked, frightened, paralyzed, stunned, unconscious, or exhausted. You can also negate/ignore the penalties sustained from taking wound damage, again for one round. This maneuver is an exception to the general "you can't use Ki when you're subject to fear" rule.

You may continue to use this maneuver round after round to hold an effect "at bay", and operate normally - so long as you pay the cost each round to do so.
Other Prerequisites: Hardened maneuver.

TRACE [Conditioning 12]
You can follow the movements of unseen foes. Once you successfully strike a concealed opponent, you can follow their movement unerringly so long as they stay within the range of your Blind Fight maneuver. You no longer need to make checks to know which square they are in, and they gain no benefit from attacking you from concealment. Pinpointing them is a free action. You can only trace one opponent at a time.

If the opponent attempts to use Move Silently or other stealth techniques to avoid your detection, any opposed checks you need to make to locate them gain a +10 circumstance bonus, with an additional +5 for each additional time you have selected Blind-Fight beyond the first.

This maneuver applies even if the foe moves out of line of sight, but they must remain within the range of your Blind Fight ability.
Other Prerequisites: Blind-Fight maneuver.

ZEN SENSES [Conditioning 6]
You have an instinctive awareness of danger, and the ability to react to it quickly. You gain a +1 active insight bonus to your Defense, but you must be able to react instantly to the dangers you sense. If you are subject to any Armour Check penalties, your insight bonus due to Zen Senses is reduced by an amount equal to the penalty.

If your movement is impeded in any way, such as by wearing Medium or Heavy armour, or by carrying a heavy load, you lose the bonus from Zen Senses.
Special: You may take this maneuver more than once, if you possess a Wisdom bonus. Each time you select Zen Senses, your insight bonus increases by a further +1, and you must possess 3 more ranks in Technique (Conditioning) . You may select this maneuver an additional number of times equal to your Wisdom bonus.

CONDITIONING MANEUVERS, KI-BASED
Most of these need much more imaginative names than they currently possess. I'm very open to "cool name" suggestions.

INNER HEALING [Conditioning 9]
You draw strength from your Ki, restoring yourself to health when others would falter. As a move action, you may call upon your Ki, healing either a single wound point, or 1d6 vitality (choose when you activate the maneuver). This healing increases by +1 point, or +1d6 vitality for each additional Ki maneuver you possess.

Using this maneuver counts as one of your daily uses of Ki.
Other Prerequisites: Ki feat.

INNER POWER [Conditioning 9]
You harness your Ki to increase your physical power. As a move action, you may call upon your Ki, granting you a +1 ki bonus per Ki maneuver you possess to attack rolls, damage rolls, and Strength checks for one round.

Using this maneuver counts as one of your daily uses of Ki.
Special: You may take this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, it increases the duration of Inner Power by one round, but you must possess 3 more ranks in Technique (Conditioning) each time.
Other Prerequisites: Ki feat.

KI FOCUS [Conditioning 6]
You can use your Ki to give you focus under pressure. As a move action, you may call upon your Ki, granting you a +1 ki bonus per Ki maneuver you possess to either an attack roll, or any skill check made under duress (that is, any circumstance where you could not take 10).

Using this maneuver counts as one of your daily uses of Ki.
Other Prerequisites: Ki feat.

KI INSTINCTS [Conditioning 6]
You can harness your Ki to warn you of impending attacks. As a move action, you may call upon your Ki, granting you a +1 active ki bonus to your Defense per Ki maneuver you possess. This bonus lasts until the start of your action the next round.

You must be able to react instantaneously to the warnings your Ki gives you. If you are subject to any armour check penalty, you must reduce your bonus by the magnitude of the penalty.

Using this maneuver counts as one of your daily uses of Ki.
Special: You may take this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, it increases the duration of Ki Instincts by one round, but you must possess 3 more ranks in Technique (Conditioning) each time.
Other Prerequisites: Ki feat.

KI MASTERY [Conditioning 7]
Your ability to harness your inner power has grown. You gain one additional daily use of Ki. This maneuver does not count as a Ki maneuver for the purposes of the bonuses granted by Ki maneuvers. (NOTE: I do this because I feel it already increases your power substantially by giving you another Ki use - I don't think it needs to boost you two ways)
Special: You may choose this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, you gain another daily use of Ki, but you must possess 3 more ranks in Technique (Conditioning) each time.
Other Prerequisites: Ki feat.

KI SHIELD [Conditioning 9]
You can call upon your Ki to protect you from harm. As a move action, you may call upon your Ki, granting you +1/- DR per two Ki maneuvers you possess for a single round. This DR stacks with natural armour, but not with manufactured armour. If you possess all three, use the higher DR of natural armour+armour, or natural armour+Ki Shield.

Using this maneuver counts as one of your daily uses of Ki.
Special: You may take this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, it increases the duration of Ki Shield by one round, but you must possess 3 more ranks in Technique (Conditioning) each time.
Other Prerequisites: Ki feat.

KI STRIKE [Conditioning 8]
You can use your Ki to empower your unarmed strikes against magical creatures. As a move action, you may call upon your Ki to empower your unarmed attacks. For one round, your attacks reduce the effective DR of an opponent with DR by 1 per 2 Ki maneuvers you possess. This maneuver cannot reduce DR due to armour, natural armour, or any other mundane source, only DR "of a magical nature", such as silver, cold iron, magic, and so on.
Using this maneuver counts as one of your daily uses of Ki.
Special: You may take this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, it increases the duration of Ki Strike by one round, but you must possess 3 more ranks in Technique (Conditioning) each time.
Other Prerequisites: Ki feat.

TEN PACE STRIKE [Conditioning 13]
You may call upon your Ki to strike from a distance. As a full round action, you may call upon your Ki to perform a single unarmed attack at your highest attack bonus. For the purposes of this attack, you are considered to have a reach of 30'. You may attack any foe within range, but must have line of sight to the target.

You do not add your Strength modifier to attack and damage rolls with this attack, instead, you must add your Wisdom modifier. The attack does unarmed damage at +2 die types from your normal unarmed damage, and you also gain a +1 ki bonus to the attack and damage rolls per Ki maneuver you possess.

Using this maneuver counts as one of your uses of Ki for the day.

There are more in less-developed form - like quivering palm-ish stuff, and ki speed, but that's it for now.

Golthur

2007-01-20, 05:57 PM

POWER OVERVIEW

The power style relies on crushing your opponents with powerful blows and powerful weapons. It is a brute force style, with little in the way of skill or finesse. If a power maneuver requires a check of any kind to activate, it's usually a Strength check or a BAB check.

SPECIAL RULES

Power Damage Bonuses: Some maneuvers (such as Power Attack) grant extra "power damage". This is a regular damage bonus, except that it's handled the way your Strength bonus is for the purposes of weapons. (In my rules, I grant light weapons x1/2 your Strength bonus, one-handed x1, and two-handed x1-1/2. Natural weapons always count as x1. Wielding a weapon in two hands when it's not necessary bumps you up one category - that is to x1 for a light weapon, and x1-1/2 for a one-handed - but feel free to revert to the normal 3.5 mechanics if you like) A power damage bonus is multiplied the same way. If you have multiple, stacking power damage bonuses, add them all together, along with your Strength bonus, and then multiply.

GATEWAY FEATS

BRUTE [Combat: Power]
Prerequisites: Strength 13+.
Benefit: When calculating damage inflicted, treat your Strength as two points higher than it normally is.

COMBAT TECHNIQUE (POWER) [Combat: Power]
Prerequisites: Brute.
Benefit: Technique (Power) is now a class skill for you.

OTHER FEATS

POWER MANEUVERS

CHANGE MOMENTUM [Power 8]
When using the Power Attack maneuver together with the Cleave maneuver, you can change your power attack penalty after cleaving one foe, but before rolling to hit the next. The new power attack penalty must be within 3 points of your original penalty, must be at least -1, and must still be less than or equal to one point per 2 ranks you possess in Technique (Power).
Normal: When using the Power Attack maneuver during a Cleave, you may not change the penalty you have selected for Power Attack.
Other Prequisites: Power Attack and Cleave maneuvers.

CLEAVE [Power 3]
You can follow through with powerful blows. If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (such as by reducing it down to 0 wound points or knocking it unconscious), you get an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within reach. You are not required to take this attack.

You cannot take a 5-foot step before making this extra attack (but see below). The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature.

If your cleaving attack drops the new foe, you may opt to cleave a second foe by immediately expending 3 vitality points. You may do this once for every 3 ranks of Technique (Power) you have beyond 3 – thus, you may not do this at ranks 3 through 5, may do it once at ranks 6 through 8, twice and ranks 9 through 11, and so on. If you fail to drop a foe with a cleaving attack, the cleaving sequence ends.

You may only use this ability only once per round, even if, after cleaving, you drop another foe using a secondary attack.

You must be using a weapon with the Power descriptor to use Cleave (NOTE: essentially, big and/or smashing weapons)

March of Blood: You may opt to take a 5-foot step prior to any cleaving attack if you choose to immediately spend 5 vitality points.
Special: You may take this maneuver more than once, but each time you do, you must have at least 5 more ranks in Technique (Power) than the previous time. Each time you take this maneuver gives you the ability to cleave an additional time within a single round.

CLIP [Power 13]
You can still hit your foe, even when you would miss when using Power Attack. If you use Power Attack and miss due to the power attack, but would hit normally; you still hit, but gain no bonus to your damage, aside from any bonuses directly due to your weapon – that is, no Strength bonuses, no bonuses due to maneuvers, no bonus anatomy or speed damage, or any other modifiers due to your skill or abilities.
Other Prerequisites: Power Attack maneuver.

FEROCIOUS ONSLAUGHT [Power 9]
Your onslaught can force your opponents to fight more defensively, or possibly withdraw altogether. Using a weapon with both the Power descriptor (NOTE: basically, big smashing weapons), you may direct a ferocious onslaught on a foe. You must choose a single opponent at the beginning of the round, and use Power Attack and a full attack action against that opponent. You cannot fight defensively or use the Guard maneuver during this assault. You must use your entire attack sequence against that one opponent. You suffer double the normal power attack penalties for your attack sequence (although your damage increase for the power attack is still normal).

After your assault, your opponent must make a Will saving throw (DC=10 plus half the total damage they suffered under your attack sequence). If they fail the saving throw, they must, if they choose to attack you with a melee weapon in the next round, use either the fight defensively option or the Guard maneuver (if they possess it). The opponent can opt not to fight defensively by withdrawing and choosing another foe, or by attacking you without using melee attacks.
Other Prerequisites: Power Attack maneuver.

KNOCK-DOWN [Power 5]
You can knock opponents to the ground with your powerful blows. If you successfully inflict 10 or more points of damage to your opponent during a single attack, you may spend 3 vitality points to attempt a trip attack against your opponent as a free action. You do not suffer an AoO and cannot be tripped in return with this trip attack.

POWER STUN [Power 9]
You can send foes reeling with the power of your strikes. If you successfully inflict 20 or more points of damage to your opponent during a single attack, you may immediately spend 5 vitality points to attempt to stun him. He must make a Fortitude Save (DC=10+ any power damage bonus you may have, including the bonus due to your Strength) or be stunned for 1 full round (that is, until your next action).

Creatures that are immune to critical hits cannot be affected by this maneuver.

ROOTED STANCE [Power 3]
You can brace yourself so as to make yourself difficult to move. As a move action, you can declare that you are bracing yourself. After this action is complete, you are considered “exceptionally stable”, gaining a +4 on attempts to knock you off of your feet.

You lose this benefit if you move from your current position, either under your own power or someone else's.

SWING THROUGH [Power 9]
Even when you miss, you can often swing your weapon into another foe. Using two attacks, which must be with the same weapon, you make a powerful swing. If the first attack hits, you lose your second attack. However, if the first misses, you may take the second attack against a different opponent using the higher attack bonus of the first attack, and you further gain a +1 circumstance bonus on your attack roll, and a +1 power bonus on your damage roll, due to the increased momentum of your weapon. If you do not use the attack against a different opponent, you lose it.
Special: Like all maneuvers that use multiple attacks, you may only use this maneuver once in a given round, and only if you actually possess two attacks in a round. You may not use this maneuver with an off-hand attack unless you possess the Main Gauche feat.
Other Prerequisites: Cleave maneuver.

POWER ATTACK [Power 2]
You know how to make powerful attacks. For each -1 penalty you take on your attack roll, up to half your ranks in Technique (Power), you gain a +1 power bonus on your damage roll.

You must choose your penalty and bonus at the beginning of your action, and it remains until your action the next round.

Hmm... Fewer power maneuvers than I thought I had. I'm open to suggestions for more.

Golthur

2007-01-20, 05:58 PM

AGILITY OVERVIEW

The agility style favours light, fast weaponry, light armour, speed, and, especially, mobility. A practitioner of the agility style will move in, attack quickly, and leave. They often favour multiple, weaker attacks rather than one strong attack.

SPECIAL RULES

Agility maneuvers have a few extra rules associated with them - first, some may inflict additional damage due to speed. Second, some maneuvers require opposed checks to work. Sleight of Hand or movement skill checks (Balance, Tumble, Jump) are common for agility maneuvers, as are two other types of check - initiative checks and mobility checks, both detailed here.

Speed-Based Damage: This works much like precision-based damage. Essentially, it's a blow that comes so fast that it's very difficult to avoid at the last minute and turn into a grazing strike (remember, that's what vitality damage is). However, the attack isn't otherwise any more lethal than a regular attack. Speed-based damage works like precision-based damage, except for two major points:
It does not affect wound points in any way. Any speed-based damage that would inflict wound damage is ignored (that is, drop whatever's left over after reducing vitality to zero). The extra speed-based damage is applied after the base weapon damage.
It affects even creatures that are immune to critical hits, so long as they possess a vitality score. Some creatures (undead, constructs) are still immune because they possess no vitality.

Initiative Checks: These are used to see if you react or act faster than your opponent. They're almost always opposed. Roll d20, and add all modifiers that you would add to an initiative roll at the beginning of combat (including your DEX modifier and any bonuses due to feats like Improved Initiative).

Mobility Checks: These are used to see if you can outmaneuver your foe with quick or fancy footwork. They're almost always opposed. Each side rolls d20, and adds their DEX modifier. In addition, add 1 per 5' of movement rate (adjusted for armour) that you have beyond 30', and subtract 1 per 5' of movement rate you have less than 30'.

GATEWAY FEATS

IMPROVED INITIATIVE [Combat: Agility]
As per PHB.

QUICK PACE [Combat: Agility]
Prerequisites: Dex 13+
Benefit: Increase your base movement by 5', so long as your movement rate isn't impeded (such as by wearing medium or heavy armour or by carrying a heavy load). If your movement is impeded, you lose the additional movement due to this feat.
Special: You may choose this feat more than once. Each time you do, the prerequisite DEX score increases by 2 - that is, the second time you select this feat, you must have a DEX of 15+, the third a DEX of 17+, and so on.
(NOTE: This is somewhat meant to be a replacement for monk/barbarian fast movement)

COMBAT TECHNIQUE(AGILITY) [Combat: Agility]
Prerequisites: Dex 13+, one of Lightning Reflexes, Improved Initiative or Quick Pace.
Benefit: Technique (Agility) is now a class skill for you.

OTHER FEATS

AGILITY MANEUVERS

ACROBATIC ATTACK [Agility 7]
Your leaping attacks catch your opponents off guard. Add a +1 style bonus to any attack or damage roll you make whenever you Jump or Tumble at least 5' to attack your opponent. This benefit only applies to the first attack against the opponent.

Although you may purchase this maneuver solely with ranks in Technique (Agility), you cannot use it to its optimum effect without ranks in either Jump or Tumble. When jumping, you only gain the +1 bonus if you also possess at least 7 ranks in Jump. Likewise, when tumbling, you only gain the bonus if you possess at least 7 ranks in Tumble.

Special: You may take this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, the attack and damage bonuses increase by a further +1, and you must possess 3 more ranks in Technique (Agility) to do so.

When you purchase this maneuver additional times, you only gain the benefit up to the ranks of Jump or Tumble (as appropriate) that you possess. For example, if you purchased this maneuver 3 times (at rank 13), and only had 10 ranks in Jump, you would only gain a +2 bonus when jumping and using this maneuver.

ACROBATIC CHARGE [Agility 6]
You may charge, even over obstacles or terrain that would make charging otherwise impossible. You still need to make appropriate skill checks to overcome the obstacles. If you possess the Feet of the Cat maneuver, you may expend vitality to overcome them if you choose.

ADVANCE [Tactical 6 & Agility 6]
You can press your advantage, forcing your opponent to withdraw. As a move action, make opposed mobility checks with an opponent in an adjacent square. If you succeed, your opponent must take an immediate 5' step away from you (either directly or diagonally, so long as it's away from you). You move into the square your opponent just left. You opponent can opt not to make the mobility check by taking an immediate 5' step to a square that is not adjacent to you.

You cannot use this maneuver if it would force your opponent into deadly or dangerous terrain (such as off a cliff). If you attempt to do so, you provoke an AoO for entering your opponent's square and are engaged in close-quarters combat afterward (NOTE: basically, you occupy the same square and have a heck of a time attacking each other with anything other than daggers or natural weapons).

You and your opponent suffer any potential AoOs for moving into your new positions (despite that the movement is only 5').

BURST [Agility 4]
You can make an extremely rapid attack that catches your opponent off guard. As your first melee attack against any particular opponent in an encounter, you may make an opposed initiative check. If you succeed, you inflict an additional +1d6 speed-based damage to your foe on your attack. If you have multiple attacks, this only applies to the first attack. This damage stacks with any additional precision-based damage from Sneak Attack (or other similar abilities), if both apply.

You must be using a fast melee weapon (NOTE: essentially, a finessable weapon) to use this maneuver. You cannot use this maneuver with ranged weapons.
Special: You may take this maneuver more than once, and it increases your bonus damage by an additional +1d6. Each time, you must possess 3 more ranks in Technique (Agility).

CIRCLE [Tactical 6 & Agility 6]
You circle your opponent and force them to shift position in order to defend against you. As a move action, make opposed mobility checks with an opponent in an adjacent square. If successful, you and your opponent switch positions. Your opponent can opt not to make the mobility check by taking an immediate 5' step to a square that is not adjacent to you.

You and your opponent both suffer any AoOs from moving to your new positions, despite the movement being only 5'.

DECOY [Agility 4]
You take advantage of a foe's sluggishness by dodging one way, and then moving the other way - exposing him to your unexpected attack. If you use the Desperate Dodge option of the Dodge maneuver, and your opponent attacks and misses you (but would have hit you if not for the bonus from Desperate Dodge), you gain a +1 circumstance bonus per point of Desperate Dodge you used on your next melee attack against that opponent. You must use this attack either before or on your next action, otherwise the bonus is lost.
Other Prerequisites: Dodge maneuver.

DODGE [Agility 1]
You know how to nimbly avoid attacks. You gain a +1 active dodge bonus to your Defense against all opponents. Like all dodge bonuses, this bonus may be limited by your armour worn.

Desperate Dodge: On your action, you may expend vitality to dodge even more effectively. For one round, you can gain an additional +1 active dodge bonus to your Defense per vitality point you spend. You may spend as few or as many vitality points as you wish, up to a limit of 1 point of vitality per rank you possess in Technique (Agility). This bonus lasts until the start of your action the next round. This does not count as an action, but you may only do it on your turn.

Special: You may select this maneuver more than once. You must possess 3 more ranks in Technique (Agility) each time you do so, and may only select this maneuver a maximum of four times.

ELUSIVE TARGET [Agility 7]
You can avoid attacks at the last second. Against any attack, you may opt to retroactively use the Desperate Dodge option of the Dodge maneuver as an immediate action, at double the normal cost. If you want to use the Decoy maneuver against your foe in the next round, you must pay triple the normal cost. You must choose the amount of vitality you want to spend when activating this maneuver. This takes effect exactly as if you had used Desperate Dodge on your last turn, and works against all attacks against you until the start of your next action.
Other Prerequisites: Dodge maneuver.

FEET OF THE CAT [Agility 6]
You can move rapidly across the battlefield, even in the face of obstacles. During a normal move action that involves a movement skill (such as Jump, Climb, Tumble, or Balance), you may opt to expend up to 1 point of vitality per rank you possess in Technique (Agility) beyond 3, granting you a +1 circumstance bonus on the check per point of vitality spent. You may activate this maneuver as many times during a single move as you like (such as if there are multiple checks), so long as you are willing to pay the cost each time.

FLOAT LIKE A BUTTERFLY [Agility 10]
You can easily keep out of range of opponents. If an opponent strikes at you while your active Defense bonuses are available and they miss, you may expend 5 vitality points and take a 5' move in any direction as a reactive free action. If you move out of an opponent's threatened range, he must either advance to keep up with you (using his own means), or must choose another target to attack.

Flurry may be moved to a Weapons Mastery maneuver.
FLURRY [Agility 7]
You can attack an opponent with a quick succession of blows. As part of a full attack action, you can opt to gain an additional attack at your highest BAB, but all attacks in your attack sequence suffer a -4 penalty. The extra attack from this maneuver does not stack with other effects that would grant you an additional attack due to speed (such as weapons of speed or magic). You must be wielding an average or fast weapon (NOTE: basically, a finessable weapon) in order to use this maneuver. You may use this maneuver with ranged weapons provided you can reload (if ammunition-based) or re-equip (if hurled) your weapon as a free action.
Special: You can take this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, you must have 5 more ranks in Technique (Agility). This grants you the ability to take another additional attack, but at a cumulative -2 penalty. You may only select this maneuver as many additional times as you have points of Dexterity bonus.

GROUND FIGHTING [Agility 4]
You can fight proficiently while prone. You suffer no penalty to your attack rolls while prone, although you do retain the penalties to Defense.
Normal: An attacker who is prone takes a –4 penalty on melee attack rolls. He gains a +4 circumstance bonus to his Defense against ranged attacks, but takes a –4 penalty to his Defense against melee attacks.

IMPROVED GROUND FIGHTING [Agility 10]
You are even more adept at fighting from the ground. In addition to the effects of Ground Fighting, you no longer suffer a penalty to your Defense while prone (although you retain the bonus against ranged weapons), and you are not considered prone for the purposes of maneuvers that have an additional effect if you are prone (such as Axe Kick and Kick 'Em When They're Down).
Other Prerequisites: Ground Fighting maneuver.

MISSILE EVASION [Agility 1]
You are adept at avoiding missiles. When using the Dodge maneuver, you gain an additional +1 active dodge bonus to your Defense against ranged attacks. Like all dodge bonuses, this may be restricted by your armour worn.
Special: You may take this maneuver more than once, but only as many times as you have taken the Dodge maneuver.
Other Prequisites: Dodge maneuver.

MOBILE ASSAULT [Agility 6]
You can use your mobility to harangue your foes. (The idea is to give a bonus to attack and possibly damage based on movement - like skirmish, but I don't have a mechanic I'm happy with - suggestions?) The total bonus is limited to your number of ranks in Technique (Agility). The bonus lasts until the start of your next action. Like most movement-based abilities, you cannot use this maneuver if your movement is impaired, such as by wearing medium or heavy armour, or by carrying a heavy load.
Special: You may use this maneuver in combination with the Mobile Defense and Running Attack maneuvers.

MOBILE DEFENSE [Agility 6]
You move so rapidly on the battlefield that foes have a hard time targeting you. Whenever you use a move or a standard action to move (and not a 5' step), you gain a +1 active mobility bonus to your Defense equal to 1 point per 3 ranks you possess in Technique (Agility) beyond 3. The bonus lasts until the start of your next action. Like most movement-based abilities, you cannot use this maneuver if your movement is impaired, such as by wearing medium or heavy armour, or by carrying a heavy load.
Special: You may use this maneuver in combination with the Mobile Assault and Running Attack maneuvers.

NICK OF TIME [Agility 9]
You can react quickly enough to save your life when it really matters. If you are denied some or all of your active Defense bonuses against an attack, you can make an opposed initiative check against your opponent as a reactive free action to regain them for the purposes of that one attack. Each time you use this maneuver in a single round (such as to regain your bonuses on subsequent attacks of a full attack sequence), you suffer a cumulative -5 penalty on your check per use.

You may use this maneuver to counteract the effects of the Feint or Quick Strike maneuvers.

QUICK STRIKE [Agility 6]
Your sudden attack can catch your opponent off guard. When you use the Quick Draw feat to draw your melee weapon and attack a foe with whom you are not currently engaged in combat, you may catch them by surprise.

Make a Sleight of Hand check vs. the opponents choice of a Sense Motive check or a Spot check. Your opponent gains a +5 circumstance bonus to the check if you have used this maneuver against them before. For every point by which you win the opposed check, you negate one point of their active Defense bonuses for the purposes of your next attack, which you must take on or before your next turn. If you negate all of their active Defense bonuses in this manner, they are considered flat-footed.

You must be wielding a fast weapon (NOTE: essentially, a finessable weapon) to use Quick Strike.
Other Prerequisites: Quick Draw feat.

QUICK SWAP [Agility 9]
You can rapidly switch your weapon from one hand to the other to confuse your opponents. In melee, when wielding a one-handed weapon in one hand, and nothing in the other, you may, as a swift action, switch your weapon from one hand to the other immediately before striking. When doing so, you gain the effect of performing a Quick Strike against them, even if you are currently engaged in combat with them. You still must make a Sleight of Hand check, as per Quick Strike, and, if you do not beat a DC 15 for a light weapon, or DC 20 for a one-handed weapon, regardless of your opponent's opposed check, you drop your weapon.

If you end up attacking with your off hand after the swap, you suffer the normal penalties for doing so. You may, of course, swap from your off hand to your primary hand to attack with your primary hand as normal.

In addition, if your opponent is denied their entire active Defense bonus, you inflict an additional +1d6 speed-based damage on your attack.

You must be wielding a fast weapon (NOTE: essentially, a finessable weapon) to use Quick Swap.
Special: If you possess this maneuver and are willing and able to use it during any sort of weapon strike attempt (such as a disarm attempt or a sunder attempt vs. your weapon), your opponent suffers a -4 penalty to their check. If you win on the check, but would have failed if not for the penalty, you are assumed to have swapped your weapon as an immediate action.

RUNNING ATTACK [Agility 13]
You can charge across the battlefield, hacking down foes as you pass. As a full round action, you may move your full movement, and gain a single melee attack at each opponent you pass along the way, up to the limit of your iterative attacks. You use your normal, decreasing, iterative attack bonuses for each attack. Essentially, you may perform a move action and a full attack action at the same time, with the limit that you may only attack each opponent once. You suffer any attacks of opportunity that you might normally suffer for your movement. If you possess off-hand attacks for wielding two weapons at the same time, you may attack an opponent twice - once with your primary attack and once with your off-hand attack, so long as you have sufficient attacks remaining to do so.

Like most movement-based abilities, you cannot use this maneuver if your movement is impaired, such as by wearing medium or heavy armour, or by carrying a heavy load.
Special: You may combine this maneuver with the Mobile Assault and Mobile Defense maneuvers, and you gain any bonuses from any movement you have made prior to contacting each opponent.

SIDESTEP CHARGE [Agility 4]
You are skilled at dodging charging opponents and taking advantage when they miss. Against a charge attack, your dodge bonus due to the Dodge maneuver doubles. Like all dodge bonuses, this may be limited by your armour worn. If a charging opponent fails to make a successful attack against you, you can an immediate attack of opportunity against them.

If you are flat-footed or otherwise denied your active Defense bonuses, you do not gain the benefit of this maneuver.
Other Prerequisites: Dodge maneuver

SPLIT MOVE [Agility 6]
You may split your move action so as to move both before and after your action. When doing this, your standard action is limited to a single attack (or a maneuver that uses a single attack), using a readied spell trigger magic item, or casting a fast spell (NOTE: basically, level 2 or lower). You must move at least 5' both before and after your action to use this maneuver.

Like most movement-based abilities, you cannot use this maneuver if your movement is impaired, such as by wearing medium or heavy armour, or by carrying a heavy load.

STEADY FOOTING [Agility 4]
You are able to maintain your footing under threat. By expending up to 1 point of vitality per rank in Technique (Agility) beyond 3, you gain a +1 competence bonus to any reactive Balance or Climb checks you make when you suffer damage. Using this maneuver does not require an action, you simply declare that you are using it (and how much vitality you are expending) when you make your reactive check. You may use this maneuver as many times in a round as you desire, provided you pay the cost each time.

Like Acrobatic Attack, you cannot make full use of this maneuver without appropriate ranks in Balance or Climb. When making a Balance check, you may only spend vitality up to 1 point per rank in Balance beyond 3, or Technique (Agility) beyond 3, whichever is lower. The same applies to Climb.

STING LIKE A BEE [Agility 5]
You can make a short forceful attack with your weapon. If weilding a piercing melee weapon, you can charge using only 5' of movement. This movement is still considered a move action, even though it is only 5'.
Normal: You must move at least 10' to charge.

WHIRLWIND ATTACK [Agility 10]
You can strike nearby opponents with a blindingly fast spinning attack. As a full round action, you can roll one attack at your highest BAB against every opponent within reach. When using Whirlwind Attack, you do not gain any additional attacks to which you might otherwise be entitled - such as from off-hand attacks, bonus attacks from the Flurry or Cleave maneuvers, etc. You must expend one point of vitality per attack you make during a Whirlwind attack.

If you are wielding a reach weapon, you may not use Whirlwind attack if you have any opponents adjacent to you, unless you are using the Haft Grip maneuver and attack opponents within 5' instead of within 10'.

There are a few more, but they're in various stages of development, so that's it for these ones for now...

Golthur

2007-01-20, 05:59 PM

NOTE: This is probably the least developed (along with Anatomy) of the maneuver sections, and also potentially the most unbalancing. The idea was to allow you to become a true powerhouse using Rage, but to make it progressively more difficult to maintain, and, when it wears off, you're in deep, deep trouble.

RAGE OVERVIEW

The rage style involves entering a blood-red battle frenzy. Harnessing the power of adrenaline, the rage warrior is an unstoppable killing machine. However, they pay the price for their short-term power by being drained afterward.

SPECIAL RULES

RAGE
Rage is a special state of combat fury that you must enter to use most Rage maneuvers. By whipping yourself into a berserk frenzy, you can be stronger, faster, and less likely to be harmed in combat.

Entering Rage: You can only enter rage if you possess the Combat Fury feat. Entering a rage takes no time in and of itself, but you can only do it on your action, and not in response to another's action. You may only enter rage once per encounter, and a limited number of times per day.

Stoking Rage: You can make raging easier by stoking your rage. To do this, you spend one or more actions screaming or howling; biting your shield, weapons or tongue; cutting yourself, or other similar inciting actions.

You must be able to see your opponent to stoke your rage, and you also must be able to close and attack them within a single round (without the effects of your rage) – that is, they must be a distance of at most twice your normal movement rate away (since that's the distance you could close and attack with a charge).

Effects of Rage: While raging, you may make use of any Rage maneuver you possess. These maneuvers will often increase your combat abilities dramatically for so long as the rage lasts. Without making use of Rage maneuvers, a rage has no beneficial effects.

While raging, you cannot perform any skill based on Intelligence, Charisma, Wisdom, or Dexterity (except Tumble, Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate). You cannot use the Concentration skill, nor use any abilities which require mental focus. You cannot use magic, nor use any magical devices which require command words, spell triggers, or spell completion. You can use any feats and maneuvers you have, save those from the Tactics style, use Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma as their main ability, or those from the Conditioning group that use Ki or require mental focus.

A rage lasts for as long as you can maintain it. You may normally only rage once per day, but you may increase the number of times you may rage per day with feats. In any case, you cannot rage more than once per encounter.

After your rage ends, you suffer a number of points of temporary Strength and Dexterity damage equal to twice the highest ranked rage ability that you used during the rage. Unlike normal ability damage, this ability damage recovers at a rate equal to your Constitution bonus (or 1 point, minimum) on both abilities per hour of rest.

Maintaining Rage: Each round you rage, you must choose which rage maneuvers you want to use. The maneuvers you choose determine two things: a rage check DC, and a vitality point cost.

Make a Technique (Rage) check, using the raging DC determined by your maneuvers. You may add your Constitution modifier to the check. You cannot take 10 on this check (nor can you take 20), since raging is inherently stressful.
If you succeed on the check, you automatically maintain your rage. If you fail the check, you must either pay the vitality point cost determined by your maneuvers, or end the rage immediately. You must pay this cost before you take into account any benefits from any Rage maneuvers you may have activated (such as those that would increase your Constitution score or grant you bonus vitality). If you do not have sufficient vitality, you can use wound points. If you have insufficient wound points, you must end your rage. You can maintain your rage so long as you either continue to succeed on your Technique (Rage) checks, or so long as you are willing to pay the vitality point cost.

The base raging DC is 15. Each rage maneuver has a DC modifier listed in the maneuver description. Add the DCs of any maneuvers you opt to use.

In addition, the following situational modifiers apply:
{table="head"]Situation|Rage DC Modifier
Spend standard action stoking rage|-1
Spend full round stoking rage|-2
Watch friend downed|-5
Wounded by current enemy|-1 per 2 points of wound damage sustained
[/table]

The base vitality point cost to maintain your rage if you've failed the check is 1 point. Like the rage check DC, the additional cost is listed in each maneuver's description. Add the vitality costs of any maneuvers you opt to use.

GATEWAY FEATS

RAGE [Combat: Rage]
Prerequisites: Con 13+.
Benefit: You can rage during battle. You may rage once per day.

COMBAT TECHNIQUE (RAGE) [Combat: Rage]
Prerequisites: Rage.
Benefit: Technique (Rage) is now a class skill for you.

OTHER FEATS

EXTRA RAGE [Combat:Rage]
Prerequisites: Rage, Technique (Rage) 7+ ranks.
Benefit: You gain an additional use of rage per day.
Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time you do, you gain an additional use of rage per day, but you must possess 4 more ranks in Technique (Rage).

RAGE MANEUVERS
Yet more candidates for the "need better names" club.

FURIOUS STRIKE [Rage 8]
Your rage-enhanced blows crush your foes. When raging and using both the Rage Strength and Power Attack maneuvers, your power attacks inflict an additional +1 point of power damage per point of Power Attack penalty. This damage stacks with the bonus damage from Power Attack.

You must be raging to use this maneuver.
Other Prerequisites: Rage Strength and Power Attack maneuvers.

HEEDLESS CHARGE [Rage 12]
While raging and performing the charge action, you may increase your charging attack bonus to +6, but you also increase the charging Defense penalty to -6. You gain the same bonus on attempts to bull rush or overrun your opponents as part of a charge.

You must be raging to use this maneuver.
Normal: Charging grants you a +2 circumstance bonus on your attack roll (and on attempt to bull rush or overrun), but you suffer a -2 circumstance penalty to your Defense.

IGNORE PAIN [Rage 6]
While raging, you feel no pain. This reduces the effects of wounds and battle fatigue. However, this is only temporary – after the fight is over, you suffer the full effects. However, it might keep you alive long enough to defeat your enemy. While enraged, you gain a form of natural damage reduction, which applies to both vitality and wound point loss due to damage (but not to vitality expenditures due to maneuver use). However, you must track all the damage that is absorbed by this damage reduction. When your rage ends, you suffer the damage as normal.

You do not suffer the normal penalties when you suffer wound point damage – you can continue to operate unhindered. Likewise, when reduced to zero wound points, you gain a circumstance bonus (dependant on your rage level) to your Will saving throw to remain conscious.

If you are subjected to any pain-causing effects (such as spells or poison that specifically inflict pain), you gain a bonus to your saving throw (equal to quadruple the bonus in the chart) against them.

The least powerful versions of this ability do not give you effective damage reduction, but all the other benefits apply.

{table="head"]Rank|DR|Save Bonus|Rage DC Modifier|Vitality Point Cost
1|-|+1|+2|1
2|-|+2|+5|4
3|1/-|+3|+8|7
4|2/-|+4|+11|10
5|3/-|+5|+14|13
6|4/-|+6|+17|16
[/table]

You must be raging to use this maneuver.

MAD FROTH [Rage 10]
You froth like a maddened wolverine, to the woe of all who are near. When using this maneuver, all rage abilities are considered two rage ranks lower than they actually are for purposes of vitality cost and rage DC. They are still considered their normal rage level for all other purposes.

However, when using Mad Froth you lose the ability to distinguish friend from foe and must attack every round if possible. If there are multiple creatures adjacent to you, you attack one at random. If there are no creatures adjacent to you, you charge toward the nearest creature, and attack it. If you cannot charge, you will move at maximum speed toward the creature. You will not attempt to run off a cliff, or other similar obstacles, but you will pass through terrain that is merely damaging or difficult rather than deadly.

You can take no other actions while using Mad Froth. Any Rage abilities that were active when you activated Mad Froth are automatically renewed each round.

Once you have activated Mad Froth, you cannot stop your rage short of running out of vitality, or if no creatures remain within detection.

You must be raging to use this maneuver.

PRIMAL SCREAM [Rage 6]
You reach within you, and tap the beast to let forth a terrifying howl. Once per combat, when you initially activate your Rage for the first time, you may make a primal scream as a standard action. Any within 30' who hear your scream must make either a Will saving throw (DC=10 + ½ your ranks in Technique(Rage) + either your Charisma or Strength modifier) or an opposed BAB check (same DC), or be frightened (fleeing from you as best they can). If they succeed on the saving throw or check, but do not beat the DC by 10 or more, they are still shaken for 1d4 rounds.

RAGE ENDURANCE [Rage 6]
Through the power of your rage, you are more resilient and gain greater endurance. While raging, you gain a bonus to your Constitution score. You can choose the amount of the bonus, but higher bonuses may make your rage more difficult to maintain.
{table="head"]Rank|Con Bonus|Rage DC Modifier|Vitality Point Cost
1|+2|+2|1
2|+4|+5|4
3|+6|+8|7
4|+8|+11|10
5|+10|+14|13
6|+12|+17|16
[/table]
This increased Constitution score grants you extra wound points, extra vitality, and a bonus to your Fortitude saving throws. As per the normal rage rules, though, you must pay the vitality cost for this maneuver before you gain the vitality due to your increased Constitution score.

However, when this ability ends, you lose the extra wound and vitality points – if this forces you to be at zero or fewer vitality points, you suffer 1d6 points each of additional Strength, Constitution, and Dexterity damage. If it forces you to be at zero or fewer wound points, you immediately start dying.

You must be raging to use this maneuver.

RAGE MIND [Rage 8]
When raging, your mind cannot be distracted from the battle at hand. While raging, you gain a bonus to Will saving throws. The bonus you gain quadruples if you are resisting any mind-affecting spell or effect. You can choose the bonus, but higher bonuses may make your rage more difficult to maintain.
{table="head"]Rank|Will Save Bonus|Rage DC Modifier|Vitality Point Cost
1|+1|+2|1
2|+2|+5|4
3|+3|+8|7
4|+4|+11|10
5|+5|+14|13
6|+6|+17|16
[/table]
You must be raging to use this maneuver.

RAGE SPEED [Rage 10]
Through the power of rage, you are a blur on the battlefield. While raging, you gain a bonus to your movement rate and to your Reflex saving throws. You may select the bonus, but higher bonuses make your rage progressively more difficult to maintain.
{table="head"]Rank|Additional Speed|Reflex Save Bonus|Rage DC Modifier|Vitality Point Cost
1|+5'|+1|+2|1
2|+10'|+2|+5|4
3|+15'|+3|+8|7
4|+20'|+4|+11|10
5|+25'|+5|+14|13
6|+30'|+6|+17|16
[/table]
You must be raging to use this maneuver.

RAGE STRENGTH [Rage 4]
Through your rage, your blows are more powerful, smashing through foes like a scythe through wheat. While enraged, you gain a rage bonus to your Strength. You may select the bonus, but it makes your rage progressively harder to maintain.
{table="head"]Rank|Str Bonus|Rage DC Modifier|Vitality Point Cost
1|+2|+2|1
2|+4|+5|4
3|+6|+8|7
4|+8|+11|10
5|+10|+14|13
6|+12|+17|16
[/table]
You must be raging to use this maneuver.

RAGE TIRELESSNESS [Rage 12]
You have learned to use your rage to help sustain itself, turning you into an unstoppable juggernaut. You may transfer points from your vitality pool to your current vitality point total. You may choose the number of points of vitality that you wish to transfer, but larger numbers make your rage more difficult to sustain.

The number of points that you choose are deducted from your vitality pool, and added to your current vitality total. Any extra points that would exceed your normal vitality total are discarded, but are still deducted from your pool.
If you fail your rage check, the gain from this maneuver is minimal – typically only enough to power a couple of very low-level rage abilities. You must succeed at your rage check to use this maneuver at its full effectiveness. Keep in mind that, as per the normal rage rules, you must pay the full vitality cost for this maneuver before you gain the vitality from it. If you have insufficient vitality to do so, you must either suffer the damage as wound damage or end your rage.
{table="head"]Rank|Vitality Transfer|Rage DC Modifier|Vitality Point Cost
1|3|+2|1
2|6|+5|4
3|9|+8|7
4|12|+11|10
5|15|+14|13
6|18|+17|16
[/table]
You must be raging to use this maneuver.

Golthur

2007-01-20, 05:59 PM

TACTICAL OVERVIEW

The tactical style relies on clever tactics, trickery, and teamwork. Practioners of the tactical style usually work better in a group than individually, and rely on brains and skill rather than brawn.

SPECIAL RULES

GATEWAY FEATS

SITUATIONAL AWARENESS [Combat: Tactical]
You can rapidly assess your environment.
Benefit: You can make an active Spot and Listen check simultaneously as a free action once per round.
Normal: Characters can make a passive Spot and Listen check (a check in direct response to a trigger) as a free action, but an active one (such as seeking out a hidden opponent) requires a move action.

COMBAT TECHNIQUE (TACTICAL) [Combat: Tactical]
You are knowledgeable in battle tactics.
Prerequisites: Int 13+, Situational Awareness.
Benefit: Technique (Tactical) is now a class skill for you.

OTHER FEATS

TACTICAL ADVANTAGE [Combat: Tactical]
You always have a plan in battle, and it helps you gain the advantage.
Prerequisites: Int 13+, Tactician
Benefit: You may add your Intelligence modifier to your initiative in addition to any other modifiers.

TACTICAL MANEUVERS

ADVANCE [Agility 6 & Tactical 6]
See Agility section for full details.

BROKEN TIME [Tactical 9]
By suddenly changing the rhythm of your attacks, you can gain the upper hand in combat. In order to use this maneuver, you must have performed a full attack action in melee against a specific opponent. Then, you may utilize this maneuver on your second full attack against the same opponent which must occur in the next round. All attacks from both full attack sequences must be directed at the opponent.
This maneuver does not take an action, but instead acts as part of a full attack action.
Make a BAB check (adding your Intelligence modifier) opposed by either your opponent's Sense Motive check or by a BAB check of their own (adding their Wisdom modifier). Your opponent gains a +5 circumstance bonus on their check if you have used this maneuver against them before.
If you successfully overcome the opponent's check, you may, for so long as you continue to attack only this opponent, perform your actions immediately before his, even though it is not normally your turn. This takes effect at the beginning of your next turn.
If you leave melee, attack other opponents, or perform any action other than attacking your target,. you immediately lose the benefit of this maneuver and may again only act on your normal initiative (including the action that triggered the loss of this maneuver).
Special: You must possess at least two iterative attacks per round when using a full attack action in order to use this maneuver.

CANNY REFLEXES [Tactical 5]
When an opponent opens himself up, you can capitalize. When an opponent provokes an AoO, you can, by expending 5 vitality points, opt to take an AoO as a reactive free action against the opponent without using one of your normal AoOs to do so. You may only use this maneuver once against an individual foe in a single round, no matter how many AoOs they might provoke.
(NOTE: This is meant somewhat as a replacement for Combat Reflexes)

CIRCLE [Agility 6 & Tactical 6]
See Agility section for full details.

COORDINATED ASSAULT [Tactical 4]
You are skilled at coordinating an attack against a single creature. If you are leading an attack on a foe, the effectiveness of swarming is increased by one creature. That is, two creatures attacking yields a +2 bonus for each, three creatures attacking a +3, and so forth.

You must engage in melee with the target, and must be able to speak and direct the actions of your allies. This maneuver has no effect if only one person is attacking the target.
Special: You may take this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, you must have 3 more ranks in Technique (Tactical), and you increase the effectiveness of swarming by another creature.

CUNNING DEFENSE [Tactical 3]
You can tell when people are attempting to trick you in combat. Any time you can make a Sense Motive roll in combat against an opponent's trickery (such as Feint), you gain a +2 insight bonus on your check. If the opposed roll offers other options (such as using a Base Attack Bonus check, for example), you still gain the bonus on the check regardless of whether you use Sense Motive or not.

Likewise, against the Decoy maneuver, you gain a +2 active insight bonus to your Defense against the attack which gains the bonus from Decoy.
Special: You may take this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, you gain another +2 insight bonus on checks to resist trickery, but you must have another 3 ranks in Technique (Tactical).

EXTENDED GUARD [Tactical 6]
You can adopt an extended defensive position, which makes it more difficult to approach you. As a move action, you can adopt an extended guard. So long as you maintain this stance, your threatened range is increased by 5' - that is, you threaten areas with your melee weapon as if your reach were one square larger than it actually is. When your opponent leaves the first square of your extended threat range, they are subject to an attack of opportunity, as normal. This extended threat range does not apply in other circumstances.
Special: You must be wielding a one-handed melee weapon or larger (as opposed to a light weapon) to use this maneuver.

FEINT [Tactical 3]
You can mislead an opponent in melee combat, so that they cannot dodge your next attack effectively. As a standard action, make a Bluff check – you may use either your Charisma modifier (as normal) or your Intelligence modifier for this check. Your foe opposes this roll with their choice of a Sense Motive check, or a BAB check (adding their Wisdom modifier).

Feinting in combat against non-humanoid opponents is difficult – you take a -5 penalty. Against bizarre creatures such as elementals, aberrations, and so on, you take a -10 penalty. Against animals or other creatures with 1 or 2 Intelligence, you suffer a -10 penalty unless either you possess the Animal Empathy feat, or you use a Handle Animal check instead of a Bluff check. Keep in mind that you suffer a -10 penalty for using Handle Animal this way if you have no ranks. It's not possible to feint a non-intelligent creature; they simply do not care about your false openings or mock attacks.

Feinting is easiest with a fast weapon that allows you to rapidly redirect your attack. An average weapon imposes a -2 penalty to the attacker's check, a slow weapon imposes a -4 penalty, and a very slow weapon inflicts a -6 penalty. (NOTE: this makes feinting with a greatsword a bit harder than feinting with a dagger. I suppose I could restrict the use of this maneuver to finessable weapons).

For every point by which you beat their BAB check, you negate one point of any active Defense bonuses for the purposes of your next attack, which you must take on or before your next turn. If you negate all of their active Defense bonuses this way, they are considered flat-footed.

Quick Feint: You may spend 5 vitality points to feint as a move action instead of as a standard action.

Lightning Feint: You may spend 10 vitality points to feint as an attack instead of as a standard action. Like all maneuvers that use an attack, you may only feint this way once per round. You may not use this option with an off-hand attack, unless you possess the Main Gauche feat.

Distract Foe: By accepting a -5 penalty to your feint roll, you can confer the feint benefits to an ally attacking the same enemy instead of yourself.

(NOTE: This maneuver is meant as a replacement for the normal usage of Feint in the Bluff skill)

GUARD [Tactical 4, Armoured 4]
By adopting a defensive posture, you make yourself less likely to be struck. When fighting defensively, you gain an active bonus to your Defense equal to the attack penalty you choose to take, instead of the normal +2/-4.

Unlike the normal bonus for fighting defensively, only half of this bonus (round up) is considered a dodge bonus and may be limited by your armour. The remainder of the bonus is a style bonus, and is not limited by your armour.

Like the bonus from fighting defensively, if you are using a shield or a weapon with the Parry descriptor in your off-hand (NOTE: basically, any weapon which is really good for parrying), and not using it to attack, your bonus due to the Guard maneuver is increased by 50%, but the penalty remains the same.

You may take a penalty of up to -1 per 2 ranks you possess in Technique (Tactical) or Technique (Armoured) - whichever you used to purchase this maneuver.

(I need something for total defense in here, but I can't work out how it would work mechanically. Suggestions?)

Normal: When fighting defensively, you suffer a -4 attack penalty to gain a +2 dodge bonus.

KICK 'EM WHEN THEY'RE DOWN [Tactical 7]
You can take advantage of a prone opponent's weakness. If someone is dropped or rendered prone in a square adjacent to you, you may take an attack of opportunity against them.

If, during your AoO, you utilize a maneuver that explicitly grants bonus damage to a prone opponent (such as Axe Kick or Elbow Slam), you inflict an additional +1 die type of damage (if it's an unarmed maneuver), or you increase the bonus damage by one die type (if it's an armed maneuver inflicting dice), or by +2 (if a fixed bonus).

Normal: Being knocked prone, in and of itself, does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Getting up from prone provokes an AoO if done from within a threatened square.

LUNGE [Tactical 5]
You can make a short forceful attack with your weapon. If weilding a piercing melee weapon, you can charge using only 5' of movement. This movement is still considered a move action, even though it is only 5'.
Normal: You must move at least 10' to charge.

PATHFINDING [Tactical 3]
You are adept and finding clear paths through difficult terrain. You can reduce the effective movement cost for passing through difficult terrain by 1 by expending 1 vitality point per square of movement. If this causes a difficult terrain's movement cost to be reduced to 1 (normal), then you no longer need to make Balance checks to pass through the area.

Allies can perform identical movement to you (i.e. moving through exactly the same squares) and gain your advantage, if you spend a free action advising them where to step. They must also spend 1 vitality point per square of movement.
Special: You may take this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, you must have 3 more ranks in Technique (Tactical). When you do this, you may reduce the movement cost by an additional point, but must spend an additional two vitality points to do so. If you take the maneuver a third time, you may reduce the movement cost by a third point, but must spend an additional three vitality points to do so, and so forth.

PRESS ADVANTAGE [Tactical 11]
You know how to take advantage of your most successful attacks to make your weaker ones more potent. If you successfully strike someone with a melee attack by more than what you needed to hit them (e.g. if you needed a 15, and you rolled a 30 or higher), you gain half the difference (round up) as a bonus on your next attack against the same opponent in the same round.
If you have no more attacks remaining, the bonus is lost.

RALLY [Tactical 4]
You can inspire your allies to be all that they can be. As a standard action, you can rally your allies, granting them +1 morale bonus to their attack rolls, and a +1 morale bonus to their Will saving throws vs. fear and compulsion effects. The effect lasts until the end of the battle, or until any one of the following conditions occurs:
An ally falls in battle or flees – this negates the bonus for anyone who witnesses it.
The affected individual suffers wound damage – this negates the bonus for the individual.
You fall, are rendered helpless, or are otherwise prevented from having full control of your faculties. If this happens, the bonus becomes a penalty instead.
Affected allies must be within 60' of you when you use the maneuver, and must be able to see and hear you. You do not gain this bonus, but your allies do.

Special: You may choose this maneuver more than once, provided you possess a Charisma bonus. Each time you select this maneuver, you must have 3 more ranks in Technique (Tactical), and your granted morale bonus increases by 1. You may only select this maneuver an additional number of times equal to your Charisma bonus.

RIPOSTE [WM: Heavy Blades 6 & Tactical 2, WM: Light Blades & Tactical 2]
See Weapons Mastery section for details.

SIDESTEP [Tactical 8 & Agility 3]
In combat, you have the ability to anticipate your opponent’s moves and move in his wake. When an opponent in an adjacent square takes a single 5-foot step to a square that is not adjacent to you, you may spend 5 vitality points to move into the square the opponent just left.

SIZE MATTERS NOT [Tactical 2]
You know how to use your size and speed effectively against opponents that are larger than you. Against a foe one or more sizes larger than you, you gain a +1 active dodge bonus on your Defense, and a +1 competence bonus on your attacks. Like all dodge bonuses, this bonus may be restricted by armour worn.

Special: You may take this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, your dodge bonus and your competence bonus to attack increase by 1, but you must possess 3 more ranks in Technique (Tactical).

TEAMWORK [Tactical 8]
You can coordinate your allies with ease. By expending 10 vitality points and taking a full round action, you can grant an extra move action to any or all allies within 30 feet (but not yourself). Your allies must be able to see and hear you to obtain this bonus. Each ally expends this action immediately, in initiative order, on your turn. The initiative order continues normally afterwards.

UTILIZE ENVIRONMENT [Tactical 4]
You know how to use your environment more effectively. Whenever you gain a cover bonus to your Defense due to obstacles or terrain, the bonus gained increases by an additional +1.
Special: You may choose this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, you must have 3 more ranks in Technique (Tactical), and the cover bonus gained increases by an additional +1. You may not gain more than double the normal cover value of the obstacle or terrain, regardless of the number of times you have selected this maneuver.

Again, more maneuvers in various stages of incompletion, but that's it for this section for now...

Golthur

2007-01-20, 06:00 PM

UNARMED OVERVIEW

The unarmed style is a weapons mastery style, but one that transforms the practitioners body into a lethal weapon. Although it uses similar rules to other Weapons Mastery styles, it is different enough to merit its own section. Any general melee Weapons Mastery maneuvers can also be used with the unarmed style, so long as there are no instructions to the contrary.

NOTE: The idea of this section is to make any of monk-style warriors, boxers, and Grecian wrestlers possible and cool, and also to make unarmed bar brawls fun, too. It's a bit more complicated than the standard system, but hopefully in a fun way.

The rule changes will make more sense once you look at the maneuvers.

SPECIAL RULES

The unarmed style probably has the most special rules of any section.

UNARMED ATTACK FORMS
In this system, there are four major unarmed attack forms - punch, kick, head butt, and grapple. Your character's size determines their base damage for each form, as per the following table:

{table="head"]Unarmed Damage|Notes
1d2-1|
1d2|Base damage for size S creatures
1d3|Base damage for size M creatures
1d4|Base damage for size L creatures
1d6|
1d8|
1d10|
2d6|
2d8|
3d6|
3d8|
4d8|
[/table]

When attacking, your base damage is modified by your attack form. Track the damage for each attack form separately for your character, since maneuvers can change individual forms.

{table="head"]Unarmed Attack Form|Attack Modifier|Damage Die Type|Damage Modifier
Punch|+0|+0|+0
Kick|-2|+1|+1
Head Butt|-4|+1|+0
Grapple|+0, but varies by move|+0, but varies by move|+0
[/table]

For example, a size M creature would do 1d3 points of damage on a punch, 1d4+1 points of damage on a kick, 1d4 points of damage on a head butt, and 1d3 base grapple damage.

I've seriously entertained the thought of simplifying this to fixed damage bonuses instead of die types, just due to complexity, but I like the idea of increasing returns for a +1 or +2 die type jump as you get progressively better at unarmed combat.

Punching & Kicking: All characters can punch and kick. You do not suffer any nonproficiency penalties for doing so - all characters are assumed to have had enough rough-and-tumble play as a child to be able to handle themselves tolerably well in a fight.

Attacking an armed opponent while unarmed provokes an AoO, unless you possess the Weapon Group (Unarmed) feat.

A character with multiple iterative attacks can interleave punches and kicks as they see fit, so long as they take the penalty on each one (NOTE: A kick works out essentially to an automatic -2/+2 power attack, but without requiring you to commit to it for your full attack sequence)

Punching someone while wearing metal gauntlets, brass knuckles, or cesti grants you a +2 bonus to your punch damage, and wearing metal boots does the same for kicking.

Head Butt: You can only perform a head butt when you are engaged in close quarters with your opponent (such as if you are grappled), but you can do so even if your arms and legs are pinned.

Grapple: Grappling includes all forms of unarmed combat that involve grabbing or manipulating your opponent rather than just striking them. You cannot successfully grapple an opponent three or more sizes larger than you.

I redid the grappling rules to allow for more "fun" grappling - e.g. more like a wrestling match than the current rules.

Grappling is resolved in two phases:

Phase 1 - Grab the body part: Make an attack roll, modified for the body part, to grab the appropriate body part (NOTE: this is like a called strike, but without all the "I shot you in the eye, you die" called strike nonsense). This is an unarmed attack, and may provoke an AoO against an armed opponent.

Table: Grappling Attack Penalties
{table="head"]Size|Examples|Penalty
Medium|Leg or torso of size L creature|-2
Small|Leg or torso of size M creature|-3
Tiny|Arm of size M creature|-4
Diminutive|Hand, head, or foot of size M creature|-6
[/table]
Extremely mobile areas such as the upper limbs or head of a humanoid creature, or the lower limbs of someone who is moving quickly may impose an additional -4 mobility penalty to the check. You can negate this penalty for a limb that's being used to attack you by readying an action to grab it when they attempt to strike.

If you are already grappled or otherwise in close quarters with your opponent, reduce all penalties by 2.

Phase 2 - Manipulate: You then attempt to muscle or finesse the opponent's body into the right position. Make a Technique (Unarmed) roll, adding either your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the roll. If you use your Strength, add a +4 size bonus per size category you are larger than your opponent (and a corresponding penalty if you are smaller).

You opponent can make either a stability check or an escape check (see below) to resist your move, depending on the move you choose. If you win the check, you have successfully applied your move. You and your opponent are now in the same square and in close quarters. If you are the same size or smaller than your opponent, you move into their square. If you are larger than your opponent, they are moved into your square.

Escape Checks: Some grappling moves allow you to wiggle or twist your way out of them, or overpower your foe to escape from them. An escape check reflects this. An escape check is either a Technique (Unarmed) check with either your Strength or Dexterity bonus applied, or an Escape Artist check.

If you are using a Technique (Unarmed) check with Strength, you may add a +4 size bonus per size category you are larger than your opponent (and apply a corresponding penalty per size category you are smaller).

If you are using a Technique (Unarmed) check with Dexterity, you may add a +4 size bonus per size category you are smaller than your opponent (and apply a corresponding penalty per size category you are larger).

An Escape Artist check already has size modifiers included, so no additional modifer is added here.

Stability Checks: Some grappling moves attempt to knock you prone or affect your footing. In these cases, you can make a stability check to oppose them. A stability check is either a Technique (Unarmed) check with either your Strength or Dexterity modifier, or a Balance check. If you are using Technique (Unarmed) with Strength, you may apply size bonuses, as per an escape check above. In addition, if the defender has four or more legs, or is otherwise exceptionally stable, add a +4 stability bonus to the check.

Holds: Many grappling moves are holds. After you have successfully performed the move, you may maintain the hold automatically each round (as a standard action) and continue to inflict damage upon your foe. You do not need to make any roll aside from a damage roll.

You may release a hold as a free action.

Breaking a Hold: If you are held, you may break a hold by escaping. If you spend a standard action and succeed at an escape check, you can successfully break the hold. Thereafter, you are still in close quarters, and are still prone (if the attacker's move rendered you prone), but are no longer held.

You may also break a hold by striking your opponent. Make a strike (armed or unarmed) as normal (although you may suffer penalties for being in close quarters and/or prone). If you hit, the opponent must make a Fortitude saving throw (DC = 10 plus damage inflicted) or be forced to loosen or release their hold enough for you to escape. If you inflict wound damage, the save DC increases to 20 plus the amount of wound damage dealt.

Grappling Moves: You can use a variety of grappling moves. When grappling, you must choose a move - you can't just "grapple" an opponent, you must be doing something, even if it's only grabbing their torso and squeezing (Crush and Hold) or tackling them (Knock Prone and Hold). Most of these moves are designed with humanoid opponents in mind, but most can be "reinterpreted" for non-humanoids easily enough.

Pin/Lock One Limb and Hold: Make an attack to grab one of your opponent's limbs. If you win against your opponent's escape check, you have their limb pinned or rendered immobile.

The most relevant benefit of this move is that your opponent can no longer use the limb that you are holding, but it also inflicts unarmed damage at -1 die type, both immediately and for each round that you maintain the hold.

Pin/Lock Two Limbs and Hold: This move is most useful against humanoid opponents – you attempt to grab either both their arms, or both their legs and hold.

This is a much harder move to perform than pinning a single limb – essentially, you must attack with two weapons; once with your primary hand to grab one limb, and once with your off hand to grab the other limb. You suffer the normal penalties for using two weapons when you do so, but both weapons are considered light.

Each attack requires the opponent to make a separate escape check. If you have grabbed the legs, the opponent may opt to make stability checks instead.
If successful with both attacks, and you successfully overcome both escape checks, you have pinned both limbs. Otherwise, you may have only pinned one limb (see above) or none.

If you have pinned both limbs, you inflict normal unarmed damage both immediately and for each round that you maintain the hold, but the most significant advantage is that the opponent is unable to attack you with the grabbed limbs. If you have secured both legs, the opponent is knocked prone, and cannot move their legs.

Crush and Hold: Make an attack to grab your opponent's torso. If you win against your opponent's escape check, you have them in a crush or hug.

This move inflicts unarmed damage at +1 die type, both immediately and for each round that you maintain the hold.

The biggest disadvantage to this move is that the opponent is still free to strike you (albeit at a penalty for being in close quarters).

Knock Prone and Hold: Make an attack to grab your opponent's torso. If you win against your opponent's stability check, they are knocked to the ground, and you are holding them down.

This move inflicts normal unarmed damage, both immediately and for each round that it is maintained.

If you fail the check, the opponent automatically gets a reactive attempt to knock you prone. Make a second manipulation vs. stability roll, reversing the attacker and defender. If the opponent succeeds, you are knocked prone instead.

The biggest advantage to this move is that the opponent is now prone. They can attack you, but suffer both the penalties for being in close quarters, and the penalties for being prone.

Choke/Sleeper Hold: Make an attack to grab your opponent's head. If you win against your opponent's escape check, you have grabbed their neck and have started to squeeze. This inflicts unarmed damage at -1 die type both immediately and each round you maintain the hold. In addition, the damage inflicted on the second and subsequent rounds requires the victim to make a Fortitude save (DC=10 plus damage inflicted) or be knocked unconscious. If you inflict wound damage, the DC increases to 20 plus the wound damage inflicted.

Once the victim is knocked unconscious, they can make another saving throw (vs. the same DC) each minute to wake up. Too long?

Throw: Make an attack to grab your opponent's chest or abdomen. If you win against your opponent's stability check, you have thrown them into any adjacent square (roll randomly). You may attempt to choose the square by accepting a -4 penalty to your manipulation check.

This sudden throw to the ground inflicts unarmed damage at +2 die types, but does not provide a hold, nor are you in close quarters with your opponent afterwards.

Trip: Make an attack to trip up your opponent's legs. If you win against your opponent's stability check, they are knocked prone. Unlike most grappling moves, you do not enter the opponent's square after a trip.

If you fail the check, the opponent automatically gains a reactive attempt to trip you. Make a second manipulation vs. stability check, reversing the attacker and the defender.

GATEWAY FEATS

WEAPON GROUP (UNARMED) [Combat]
Any thug can use their fists, but you know how to use your body as a weapon. You are considered to be armed even when you are not – that is, you do not provoke attacks of opportunity from armed opponents when you attack them unarmed. However, you still get an attack of opportunity against an unarmed opponent without this feat who attempts to strike you.
Normal: Without this feat, you are subject to an attack of opportunity when you strike an armed opponent while unarmed.

WAY OF THE FIST [Combat: Unarmed]
You have become an initiate in the way of unarmed combat.
Prerequisites: Weapon Group (Unarmed); Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: Technique (Unarmed) is now a class skill for you.

OTHER FEATS

UNARMED MANEUVERS

AXE KICK [Unarmed 6]
You can deal a punishing kick to smaller or prone foes. Against an opponent one or more sizes smaller than you or who is prone, you can use an attack to kick your opponent by raising your foot high, and hammering your heel down on him like an axe.

An axe kick increases your kick damage by 1 die type per size category of difference between you and your opponent, up to a maximum of +2 die types due to size. A prone opponent is considered two sizes smaller than they normally are for the purposes of this maneuver.
Special: Like any maneuver that uses an attack, you may only use this maneuver once per round, although you may use other maneuvers that use an attack within the same round. You may not use this maneuver with an off-hand attack, unless you possess the Main Gauche feat.

BEAR HUG [Unarmed 3]
You can crush your foes with a mighty hug. When performing the Crush grappling move, your unarmed damage increases by one die type. In addition, you gain a +2 competence bonus on your attack roll and manipulation roll to initiate a Crush.

BLOCK [Unarmed 3]
See Armour section for details, with the following rule change:

You suffer a -4 penalty on your block check if your weapon is one size smaller than the weapon you are blocking. You cannot block a weapon two sizes ore more larger than yours. Light weapons (including natural weapons) for a size M creature are effectively size D, one-handed are size T, two-handed are size S. Reduce or increase these sizes appropriately for larger or smaller creatures.

CLOTHESLINE [Unarmed 6]
When charging, you can strike an opponent and knock them down at the same time. When unarmed, you can perform a special charge attack.

You can perform either a single or a double clothesline.

A single clothesline resolved as a normal charge attack (using your punch characteristics) against a single opponent. If you successfully strike your opponent, you get either a bull rush or overrun attempt as a free action. An overrun will attempt to knock the opponent prone, and the bull rush will attempt to push them 5' to the side (your choice, and your choice of side so long as the square is empty). You gain the benefits of charging on both attempts.

If you successfully bull rush or overrun the opponent, you end the clothesline attempt in their square. Otherwise, you end it in the square immediately in front of them.

A double clothesline allows you to perform a clothesline on two opponents at the same time by running between them. This only works against two opponents who are side-by-side.

When performing a double clothesline, you roll separate clothesline attacks against each foe, both at your normal Base Attack Bonus. Again, you must succeed at the normal charge attack to gain the bull rush aor overrun ttempt. The overrun attempts to knock each opponent prone, and the bull rush to push them 5' away from the centre. You gain the benefits of charging on all attacks and bull rush /overrun attempts.

You end the clothesline in one of their squares (whichever one you successfully bull rushed/overrun, or your choice if you succeeded at both), or, if you did not successfully bull rush or overrun either foe, at one of the squares immediately in front of the targets (your choice).

COUNTERTHROW [Unarmed 4]
You can reverse a throw attempt. If an opponent attempts to use the Throw grappling move on you and fails to do so, you may then attempt to throw him as an immediate action.

If you also possess the maneuver The Bigger They Are, you can use your opponent's momentum against them, and may increase your throw damage by one die type for each +4 size bonus your foe would normally gain.

CRUSHING BLOW [Unarmed 3 & Power 2]
You can strike unarmed with great force. Choose a single unarmed attack form – punch, kick, head butt, or grapple. Your base unarmed damage for this attack form increases by one die type. In addition, when using the chosen attack form, you may opt to remove the Nonlethal descriptor from your unarmed attacks (NOTE: this means that when you inflict wound damage, you inflict full damage instead of 1/4 as normal for nonlethal weapons).

Special: You may take this maneuver more than once. You may either take it on a different attack form, or on the same attack form. If you choose it on a different attack form that you have not yet chosen, you must meet the initial Technique requirements (that is, Unarmed 3 and Power 2). If you choose it repeatedly on the same attack form, you must possess 3 more ranks in Technique (Unarmed), and 2 more ranks in Technique (Power). This permits you to increase the die type for the attack form by one more type.

ELBOW [Unarmed 1]
You can make an effective strike with your elbow. As an attack, you may strike with your elbow instead of your fist. This is the equivalent of a punch attack (and uses your punch characteristics), except that you can use it in close quarters without penalty.
Normal: Attacks in close quarters suffer a -4 penalty.
Special: Like most maneuvers that use an attack, you may only use this maneuver once in a given round.

ELBOW SLAM [Unarmed 6]
You may make a flying strike with your elbow. As an attack, you may make an elbow slam. When using this maneuver, your Elbow damage increases by +1 die type.

Against an opponent one or more sizes smaller than you, your Elbow damage increases by a further +1 per size category you are larger than your target, up to a maximum of +2 die types due to size. A prone opponent is considered two sizes smaller than they normally are for the purposes of this maneuver.
After using Elbow Slam on a target two or more sizes smaller than you (or a prone opponent of your size or smaller), you are rendered prone, whether the attack succeeds or fails.
Special: Like all maneuvers that utilize an attack, you may only use Elbow Slam once in a given round, although you may freely utilize other maneuvers that also utilize an attack.
Other Prerequisites: Elbow maneuver.

FLIP [Unarmed 4]
You can use an opponent's leverage against them. When performing a Throw grappling maneuver, your grappling damage increases by one die type. In addition, you gain a +2 competence bonus to both your attack roll and your manipulation roll to initiate a Throw.

FLYING JUMP KICK [Unarmed 9 & Agility 6]
You may leap into battle, kicking your opponent when they least expect it. As an attack, you may make a Jump Kick, and gain a free 5' move immediately before the kick. If you fail the Jump Kick, you still make the 5' move and you are prone, in addition to all the penalties associated with failing a jump kick.
Other Prerequisites: Jump Kick maneuver.

GRAPPLE MASTERY [Unarmed 1]
You are an expert in grappling. You may negate one point of penalties for grabbing a limb or other area of your opponent's body when initiating a grapple.
Special: You may choose this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, you can negate the grappling penalties by a further point, but you must possess 3 more ranks in Technique (Unarmed) each time you do.

HAYMAKER [Unarmed 8 & Power 4]
You can channel all your energy into a single, devastating, but reckless punch. As a full round action, you may make a single punch attack. Your unarmed damage increases by two die types and you may apply one-and-a-half times your Strength modifier to the damage from this blow. If you score a critical hit with this attack, your opponent must make a Fortitude save (DC=10 + vitality damage dealt, or 20 + wound damage dealt) or fall unconscious, in addition to any other effects.

If you miss with this punch, you are flat-footed (and this denied any active Defense bonuses) until your next action.

HOOK [Unarmed 4 & Power 2]
You can make a powerful punch using your core muscles as leverage. As an attack, you can make a hook instead of a regular punch. Your punch damage increases by one die type for this punch.
Special: Like most maneuvers that use an attack, you may only use a hook once per round. You may not use this maneuver with an off-hand attack, unless you possess the Main Gauche feat.

IMPROVISED SHIELD [Unarmed 3]
You can protect yourself with any object. You can use any held object of an appropriate shape and size (i.e. roundish or squarish) as if it were a shield. Treat the object as a shield appropriate for its size – e.g. for a Medium-sized creature, a size D object would be a buckler, a size T object would be a light shield, and a size S object would be a heavy shield.

In all ways, the item is treated as if it were a shield, although fragile objects suffer a 50% chance of breaking on each hit. For simplicity's sake, if you roll an odd number on your attack roll, the item breaks.

If you possess the Improvised Weapon maneuver and use your improvised shield as an improvised weapon, you lose the benefits of the shield for the round, just as if you were making a shield bash.

IMPROVISED WEAPON [Unarmed 3]
You can use nearly anything as a weapon. Nearly any object you pick up can be used as a weapon. You do not suffer a -4 nonproficiency penalty when using an improvised weapon. You may use regular weapons that you are not proficient with as improvised weapons if you like, but you must treat them in all ways (including damage and all descriptors) as an improvised weapon of the appropriate size.

Table: Typical Improvised Weapons
{table="head"]Size|Damage|Examples
Diminutive|1d3|Mug, bottle
Tiny|1d4|Chair leg, pot, pan
Small|1d6|Chair, stool
Medium|1d8|Table
[/table]

Improvised weapons have no descriptors or special abilities. They do damage appropriate to their type (e.g. a pot would do bludgeoning damage, and a smashed bottle would do slashing damage).

Fragile improvised weapons, such as mugs or bottles, have a 50% chance of breaking on each strike. For simplicity's sake, if you roll an odd number on your attack roll, the item breaks. In some cases (bottles, for example), this may just change the damage type.
Normal: You suffer a -4 nonproficiency penalty when attacking with anything that isn't designed to be a weapon.

JAB [Unarmed 2]
You can make a quick, fast punch that is hard to block. As an attack, you can make a jab instead of a regular punch. You gain a +4 bonus on your attack roll for this punch, but the damage decreases by one die type. You may not use the Power Attack maneuver with this punch.
Special: Unlike most maneuvers that use an attack, you may jab more than once in a round, up to as many times as you have attacks. You may not use this maneuver with an off-hand attack, unless you possess the Main Gauche feat.

JUMP KICK [Unarmed 4 & Agility 3]
You can make a deadly, but beautiful, jumping kick. As an attack, you can make a jump kick instead of a regular kick. To perform a jump kick, you must make a successful Jump check at DC 10. If you succeed, the kick damage is increased by one die type, and the damage is increased by +1 for every 5 points by which you beat DC 10. If you fail the Jump check, you miss the attack, regardless of your attack roll, and your opponent may take an attack of opportunity if he so chooses.
Special: Like all maneuvers that use an attack, you may only use this maneuver once in a round. You may not use this maneuver with an off-hand attack, unless you possess the Main Gauche feat.

Like most movement maneuvers, you cannot use this ability if your movement is impeded in any way, such as by wearing medium or heavy armour, or by carrying a heavy load.

KNEE STRIKE [Unarmed 1]
You can make an effective strike with your knee. As an attack, you may strike with your knee instead of your foot. This is the equivalent of a kick attack (and uses your kick characteristics), except that you can use it in close quarters without penalty.
Normal: You suffer a -4 penalty to attack in close quarters.
Special: Like most maneuvers that use an attack, you may only use this maneuver once in a given round.

OGRE'S GRIP[Unarmed 12]
You are adept at grappling larger foes. For the purposes of grappling manipulation, escape, and stability checks, as well as your effective size for initiating a grapple, you can treat yourself as one size larger than you actually are. You are limited to the size of your current grappling opponent when doing so – that is, you can make yourself effectively equal to the size of your current target, but not larger.

This maneuver does not stack with other feats or maneuvers that allow you to treat yourself as one size larger.
Special: You may take this maneuver a second time. When you do, you must possess 6 more ranks in Technique (Unarmed), and you are treated as two sizes larger for purposes of grappling manipulation, escape, and stability checks, as well as for initiating grapples. You cannot take this maneuver a third time.

PUSH [Unarmed 2]
You can push opponents away from you. You can perform an equivalent to a bull rush without entering the opponent's square. You still must touch the opponent using an unarmed attack which inflicts no damage (and which may provoke an attack of opportunity). Otherwise, the push is resolved as a bull rush.

If successful, you push your opponent back 5'. If unsuccessful, nothing happens (since you did not enter their square).

REVERSE HOLD [Unarmed 4]
You can reverse a hold on an opponent. If you use your standard action to escape from a hold, lock or pin, you can attempt to perform a hold, lock, or pin of your own on your opponent as an immediate action.

SCISSOR KICK [Unarmed 4]
You can perform a spectacular leaping kick with both legs, striking two opponents at the same time, or the same opponent twice in rapid succession. As an attack, you may make a scissor kick instead of a regular kick. Both kicks are resolved with the same attack roll (that of the attack used), which is rolled with a -4 penalty. You may direct the two kicks either at the same opponent or at two different opponents.

Apply damage reduction separately to each kick. Any critical hits or additional dice of damage (such as that gained through Sneak Attack) only apply to the first attack.
Special: Like most maneuvers that use an attack, you may only use this maneuver once in a given round.

SNAP KICK [Unarmed 2]
You can make a quick, fast kick that is difficult to avoid or block. As an attack, you can make a snap kick instead of a regular kick. Your kick damage decreases by one die type, but you gain a +4 bonus on your attack roll. You may not use the Power Attack maneuver with a Snap Kick.
Special: Unlike most maneuvers that use an attack, you may snap kick more than once in a round, up to as many times as you have attacks. You may not use this maneuver with an off-hand attack, unless you possess the Main Gauche feat.

SWITCH HOLD [Unarmed 4]
You can switch holds without releasing them. If you have a pin, lock, or hold on an opponent, you can initiate another grappling move without releasing your hold. You suffer a -5 penalty on the manipulation check to initiate the new move.

If you fail, you do not get the new hold, but you maintain the old one. If you fail critically, your opponent escapes your original hold.

THE BIGGER THEY ARE [Unarmed 7]
You can use your opponent's size and weight against them. When an opponent must make a stability check against one of your grappling moves, any size bonus is treated instead as a size penalty.
Other Prerequisites: Flip maneuver.

UPPERCUT [Unarmed 7]
You can make a powerful, upward punch that is very effective at close range. As an attack, you can make an uppercut instead of a regular punch. Your punch damage increases by 1 die type for this punch, or 2 die types if you are within the same square as your opponent.
Special: Like most maneuvers that use an attack, you may only make an uppercut once per round. You may not use this maneuver with an off-hand attack, unless you possess the Main Gauche feat.

That's it for unarmed stuff for now, but feel free to invent your own piledrivers or camel clutches :smile:

Golthur

2007-01-20, 06:01 PM

WEAPONS MASTERY OVERVIEW

Weapons Mastery techniques grant you abilities with a single type of weapon beyond the capabilities of "normal" warriors. They often allow you to use a single class of weapon more effectively, or to perform special tricks. Other Weapons Mastery maneuvers permit you to combine the abilities of other combat styles together into a seamless whole.

SPECIAL RULES

There is one weapons mastery Technique skill for each "class" of weapon - corresponding (essentially) to the UA weapon groups. Weapons Mastery maneuvers often apply equally well to all weapons in the group - so a maneuver that you learn with a rapier is often effective with other "light blades", such as a dagger, but will not be effective with other types of weapons (such as "heavy blades" or "flails & chains"). To gain the use of the maneuver with other classes of weapons, you need to take the maneuver again using the other weapons Technique skill.

In addition, there is a separate Technique skill for two-weapon or double-weapon fighting, called Technique (Dual). This skill has some unique aspects to it, which I'll go into in the start of the section for two-weapon fighting maneuvers.

The most notable rule change that I use for two-weapon fighting is that there is no special off-hand weapon Strength penalty, although light weapons can only use x1/2 of your normal Strength bonus (see Power maneuvers above).

There is still the normal -6/-6 penalty for TWF, with an extra -4 off-hand penalty for your off hand, for a total of -6/-10. Using a light weapon in your off hand reduces the penalty by 2 for each, for a total of -4/-8. However, this isn't so bad as it seems, since TWF is much less feat-heavy in this system :smile:.

A second rule change that I implement is that if you have an off-hand weapon with the Parry descriptor (essentially, weapons that are especially good at parrying attacks) and do not use it to attack, your Defense bonus for fighting defensively increases by 50%. If you use total defense, it increases by 100%.

GATEWAY FEATS

WEAPON GROUP PROFICIENCY (VARIOUS)* [Combat]
As per UA - there is one feat for each weapon group.

WAY OF THE WEAPON (VARIOUS)* [Combat: Weapons Mastery]
Prerequisites: Weapon Group Proficiency (Same), Base Attack Bonus +1.
Benefit: Choose a single weapon group. The weapons mastery Technique that matches the chosen weapon group is now a class skill for you.
Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time you do, it applies to a different weapon group.

TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING [Combat: Weapons Mastery]
Prerequisites: Dex 13+, Base Attack Bonus +1, Weapon Group Proficiency for the chosen weapon(s).
Benefit: Technique (Dual) is now a class skill for you.

OTHER FEATS

MAIN GAUCHE [Combat: Dual]
You are adept at fighting with your off hand. Dex 15+, 5+ ranks in any weapons Technique skill, Base Attack Bonus +1.
Benefit: You may use maneuvers that require an attack to use with your off-hand attack(s).
Normal: You may only use your primary attacks for maneuvers that require an attack.

GENERAL WEAPON MASTERY MANEUVERS

These Weapons Mastery maneuvers may be taken for any weapon, melee or ranged, including unarmed strikes - barring directions to the contrary in the individual maneuver descriptions.

MASTER'S STRIKE [Weapons 9]
When you strike with your chosen weapon, it counts. As an attack, you may make a masterfully effective attack with your chosen weapon. If you hit with your strike, you may reroll your damage after a successful hit. You must accept the results of the reroll, even if they are worse than the original roll.

If you have additional dice of damage (such as anatomy or speed damage from the Sneak Attack feat, for example), you must also reroll this damage at the same time.
Special: Like all maneuvers that use an attack, you may only use this maneuver once in a round. You may not use this maneuver with an off-hand attack, unless you possess the Main Gauche feat.

WEAPON FOCUS [Weapons 5]
You are particularly skilled in the use of a certain type of weapon. You gain a +1 competency bonus on your attack rolls, and inflict an additional +1d4 damage on a successful hit.
Special: You may take this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, you must have 4 more ranks in the appropriate weapons Technique skill.

MELEE WEAPON MASTERY MANEUVERS

Maneuvers marked as "melee" may be taken for any melee weapon, including unarmed strikes - barring directions to the contrary in the individual maneuver description. Maneuvers marked with a specific weapon group can only be taken for that weapon group.

A maneuver marked as "finesse" may be used with any finessable melee weapon, and taken for any group which includes such a weapon.

BRUISING STRIKE [Maces/Clubs 4 & Anatomy 1]
You know how to hit where it hurts but won't cause permanent damage. When using a wooden bludgeoning weapon, such as a club or quarterstaff (but not a metal one like a mace), you can freely make nonlethal attacks at no penalty.
Normal: You suffer a -4 penalty on attack rolls and only inflict half damage when making nonlethal attacks with a lethal weapon.
I imagined this one for police with cudgels.. :amused:

BYPASS PARRY [Flails/Chains 5]
When using your chain weapon, you know how to bypass a deliberate parry or a block by wrapping your chain around the obstacle. When using a flail or chain weapon, you can make your chain wrap around the interposing shield or weapon, and thus completely negate the effect of either the Parry or Block maneuvers, or half the bonus gained from fighting defensively or using the Guard maneuver.

This maneuver uses two attacks. Make a single attack at the higher BAB of the two attacks, and ignore the effect of Parry or Block, or half of the bonus (round down) gained from fighting defensively or Guard.

BYPASS SHIELD [Flails/Chains 5]
When using your chain weapon, you know how to get past your opponent's shield by wrapping your chain around the shield. When using a flail or chain weapon, you may completely bypass the effect of a shield by making the chain wrap around the shield – this includes any active or passive bonuses due to the shield.

This maneuver uses two attacks. Make a single attack at the higher BAB of the two attacks, but the attack is resolved with no active or passive defense bonuses due to a shield.

CLOTHESLINE [Maces/Clubs 6, Polearms 6]
You can clothesline with a staff or hafted weapon (ouch!) :amused:

As per the Unarmed maneuver, except when doing a double clothesline, your opponents can be as much as 5' apart - that is, they can have a single square between them. The damage done on the clothesline strike is the equivalent of a club or quarterstaff end (1d6). If your targets are separated, you end the Clothesline attempt in the square between them.

COMBINATION* [Melee 4]
You have learned how to combine multiple maneuvers together, making you a devastating opponent. When you acquire this maneuver, choose two maneuvers, in order, that both utilize an attack. You may then launch these maneuvers in combination as a multiple attack maneuver.

When you perform these two maneuvers, in the specified order, you gain a +2 bonus to your attack and damage rolls on the second maneuver. You must utilize the maneuvers as listed, in the correct order, at the same opponent, and may take no more than a single 5' step action otherwise. You may perform the maneuvers in the same round, if you have multiple attacks, but you may also spread them out over multiple rounds if you do not.
Special: You may purchase this maneuver more than once, for different combinations each time. You may also create combinations longer than two maneuvers, but you must have 3 more ranks in the appropriate weapons Technique skill per additional maneuver you wish to add. The maximum combination length is four maneuvers. Each maneuver beyond two gains a further +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls over the previous maneuver in the combination.

For example, if you took Jab/Jab/Hook as your combination, the second jab would have a +2 bonus to attack and damage, and the hook would have a +3 bonus to attack and damage. You would need at least 10 ranks in Technique (Unarmed) in order to take this combination.

CONSTRICT [Flails/Chains 8]
You can use your chain to wrap around your opponents and crush them. When using a long chain weapon, such as a spiked chain, you may use it to wrap around your opponent's torso and crush them.

This is similar to the crush grappling move, and is resolved similarly. Resolve the strike and constrict attempt exactly like a crush attempt, except that you substitute your Technique (Flails/Chains) skill in the place of Technique (Unarmed), you must use your Dexterity for the constrict attempt, and you gain no bonuses or penalties due to your size. You do not suffer an attack of opportunity for potentially attacking your opponent unarmed, since you are armed.

If successful, you may inflict damage with your weapon automatically each round by expending a standard action, although at only half normal damage (plus your Strength bonus).

The constricted opponent can escape either by making a successful escape check, or by inflicting enough damage to make you release your hold – the same as a regular crush attack.

DEFLECT AND DISENGAGE [Melee 4]
You are skilled at protecting your weapon. Whenever you are the victim of any weapon strike attempt, such as a sunder or disarm, the attacker suffers a -2 penalty on any rolls they must make to do so, including the initial attack and any opposed rolls.
Special: You may take this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, you increase the penalty by another 2, but you must have an additional 3 ranks in the appropriate weapons Technique skill.

ENTANGLE [Flails/Chains 7]
You can cause your flail or chain to trap an opponent's limbs. When using a flail or chain weapon, you may use it to entangle one of your foe's limbs.

This is similar to the pin a limb and hold grappling move, except that you do not get to inflict additional damage every round.

You resolve the strike and the entangle attempt exactly like a pin limb attempt, except that you substitute your Technique (Flails/Chains) skill in the place of Technique (Unarmed), you must use your Dexterity for the entangle attempt, and you gain no bonuses or penalties for your size. You do not suffer an attack of opportunity for potentially attacking your opponent unarmed, since you are armed.

The limb remains entangled for so long as you hold your weapon and continue to pull. You must expend a standard action each round to do so. You may release the limb as a free action. The opponent can also escape from your entangle the same way they can escape from a grapple – by either making a successful escape check, or by inflicting enough damage on you to make you let go.

FLOWING STANCES [Melee 9]
You can alter your fighting stance to accommodate the flow of battle. When using both the Power Attack and Guard maneuvers during a full attack action, you may alter the penalties you have chosen for both maneuvers once during your attack sequence.

Your new penalties for each maneuver must be within two of your original chosen penalties, and you must switch penalties before one of your attacks. You may not switch penalties after your last attack, and may only switch once during the round.
Normal: Once you have chosen your penalties with either the Power Attack or Guard maneuvers, they remain until the start of your action on the next round.
Other Prerequisites: Power Attack, Guard maneuvers, plus at least two iterative attacks per round.

HAFT GRIP [Polearms 4, Spears 4]
You can use your polearm or spear to attack adjacent foes as well as foes further away. As a swift action, you may switch your reach weapon to a haft grip, which allows you to attack foes within adjacent squares. You lose the ability to attack opponents further away while wielding your weapon this way. As another swift action, you may switch back to a normal grip.
Normal: When wielding a reach weapon, you cannot attack adjacent squares.

HALF-BLADE GRIP [Heavy Blades 4]
You may adopt an unusual weapon grip for your blade, which grants you certain advantages against armoured foes. When wielding a straight, heavy blade (i.e. not a falchion or scimitar), you may, as a swift action, switch to a half-blade grip. This involves holding the hilt with one hand and the other hand midway down the blade. As another swift action, you may switch back to a normal grip.

You must be wearing an armoured gauntlet from a suit of armour that provides at least 2 DR to use this maneuver.

This causes the following changes to the weapon characteristics:
Its damage die decreases by one die type.
Your damage type changes to piercing.
It ignores one point of DR due to armour on each strike.
It gains the Parry descriptor, granting you a +2 bonus on all Block attempts.
Because you are wielding the weapon two-handed, you gain all the benefits of that state – 1.5x your Strength bonus to damage, as well as bonuses to resist being disarmed.

LOCK WEAPONS [Finesse 6]
You can catch an opponent's weapon so that they cannot use it. As a standard action, you may opt to pin your opponent's weapon with your own.

This works like a disarm attempt – determine everything normally for a disarm attempt, except that the end result of the disarm attempt is that your blade and your opponent's blade are locked. Neither of you can use your weapon until the blades are disengaged.

A weapon with the Parry descriptor yields a +2 bonus on attempts to Lock Weapons, as does a weapon with the Disarm descriptor (NOTE: basically, any weapon really good at parrying, or a weapon that normally gets +2 to disarm).

Each round, the opponent can attempt to disengage their weapon, which requires another opposed check, identical to the original disarm check. However, because your blades are already locked, you gain a +5 circumstance bonus on the check.

The opponent can opt to drop their weapon, of course, but then they are disarmed.

Either you or your opponent can attack with a weapon in the off-hand.

LONG STRIKE [Polearms 12, Heavy Blades 12, Spears 12]
You may strike opponents beyond your normal reach. When using a piercing polearm, spear, or heavy blade, you may, as an attack, make a single attack against an opponent that is up to 5' beyond your normal reach.

Because you are overextending yourself, you suffer a -2 penalty to your defense during the round in which you do this. This penalty lasts until the beginning of your action in the next round.

You do not gain your Strength bonus on either the attack roll, nor the damage roll, nor do you gain the effect of any power-based damage enhancements (such as through Power Attack or other similar feats).
Special: Like most maneuvers that utilize an attack, you may only use Long Strike once per round, although you may use other maneuvers that use an attack during the same round. You may not use this maneuver with an off-hand attack, unless you possess the Main Gauche feat.

PARRY [Heavy Blades 3, Light Blades 3]
You can use your weapon to deflect an opponent's strike out of the way. By sacrificing an attack, you cause an opponent's next strike against you to suffer a penalty equal to half your attack bonus for that strike (round down).

You may sacrifice any attack out of your attack sequence, and the bonus comes into play on the next attack from your opponent. The opponent's strike must occur within the round that you have sacrificed the attack, or it is wasted. You can ensure that this is the case by using a held action.

You can only parry an attack that you are aware of from an opponent that you can see. You can only parry with a weapon that is average speed or faster.

If your weapon is one size smaller than your opponent's, you can still parry, but you suffer a -4 penalty to your attack bonus for purposes of the parry (thus decreasing your bonus by 2). If your weapon is two sizes smaller than your opponent's, you cannot use it to parry.

If someone is attempting to sunder or disarm you while you are parrying their attack, they ignore the parry bonus, and gain a +4 bonus on their attempt.

Full Parry: You may, as a full round action, apply each of your iterative attacks as a parry vs. each of the opponent's corresponding attacks. If you still have attacks remaining, you can attack normally on your turn with the remaining attacks.
Special: Like most maneuvers that use an attack, you can only parry once in a given round, unless you use the Full Parry option. You may not use this maneuver with an off-hand attack, unless you possess the Main Gauche feat.

POUND [Maces/Clubs 11, Picks/Hammers 11]
When using a heavy, bludgeoning weapon, you can pound someone right through their armour. When using a bludgeoning weapon, you may, as an attack, make a special attack which ignores any damage reduction due to armour, but which only inflicts half damage (round up). Damage reduction due to natural armour or any other source is effective, as normal.
Special: Like any maneuver which uses an attack, you may only use this maneuver once in a given round. You may not use this maneuver with an off-hand attack unless you possess the Main Gauche feat.

RANK FIGHTING [Polearms 3, Spears 3]
You are trained to strike past friends using your polearm. You can ignore two points of “soft” cover provided by a friend in between you and your opponent when striking with a reach weapon.
Normal: A friend in the way of a reach weapon provides “soft” cover, giving a +4 bonus to the target's Defense.
Special: You may choose this maneuver more than once – each time you do, you ignore another point of “soft” cover provided by a friend. You must possess another 3 ranks of Technique (Polearms) or Technique (Spears) each time you select this maneuver, and may select this maneuver up to 3 times (ignoring all 4 points of the “soft” cover bonus).

RIPOSTE [Heavy Blades 6 & Tactical 2, Light Blades 6 & Tactical 2]
You can turn a parry into a counterattack. If you successfully deflect an attack using Parry, you can opt to spend 3 vitality points to strike your opponent as an immediate action. This attack uses the same attack bonus you used for the parry.

Because this maneuver uses an immediate action, you may only use it once in a given round, and only if you have not otherwise used a swift or immediate action in the round.

You may use Riposte with the Full Parry option.
Other Prerequisites: Parry maneuver.

SURE STRIKE [Melee 9]
You continue to harangue your opponent so as to be certain to strike them, although you give up multiple attacks to do so. Use a full attack against an opponent - however, each attack is resolved at your highest attack bonus. Once one attack hits, any remaining attacks are forfeited - you can only hit your opponent once.
Other Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6.

THRUST STRIKE [Maces/Clubs 4]
You can make a quick, rapid strike with your quarterstaff or other bludgeoning weapon. As an attack, you can make a thrusting instead of a bashing attack.
This attack grants you a +4 style bonus to hit, but you suffer a -2 penalty on damage. You cannot use Power Attack with this strike.
Special: Unlike most maneuvers that use an attack, you can use Thrust Strike multiple times in a single round.

TOUCHE [Finesse 8]
You can follow up your disarm attempts with a rapid counterattack. If you successfully disarm an opponent, you may attack again as a immediate action, using the same attack bonuses you used on the original disarm attempt.
Because this maneuver uses an immediate action, you may only use it once per round, and only if you have not otherwise used a swift or immediate action during the round.

RANGED WEAPON MASTERY MANEUVERS

Maneuvers marked as "ranged" can be taken with any ranged weapons group - bows, crossbows, or hurled (or another weapon group such as spears that has a ranged weapon in it). Maneuvers marked as "projectile" can only be taken with either bows or crossbows.

ACCURATE SHOT [Ranged 5]
You can accurately hit targets, even when they are partially blocked. When firing at a target that gains “soft” cover from another creature (such as by being engaged in melee), or at a target behind cover, you negate one point of the melee “soft” cover or standard cover penalty.

You may not apply the effects of this maneuver when firing at targets fighting in close quarters. You may also not apply this maneuver against a target who has full cover from you, if that cover blocks your line of sight to him.
Special: You may choose this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, you must have 3 more ranks in the appropriate ranged Technique skill, and it negates another point of cover or melee penalty.

COVER FIRE [Projectile 12]
You can keep an area of the battlefield pinned down, by sniping at anyone within it. As a full attack action, you can direct cover fire anywhere within a cone of length equal to one range increment of your weapon, chosen when you initiate the maneuver. You may continue to do so until the start of your next turn.

While covering, you receive a normal full attack sequence, but each individual attack may be taken as a reactive free action at any time (and in response to any action you see, as if it were a readied action) at a -4 circumstance penalty. Your fire occurs simultaneously with the triggering action. If it's absolutely necessary to see which action occurs first, use an opposed initiative check, but only do it if necessary to avoid slowing down play.

You may only make one cover fire shot per 3 initiative counts, and may only fire as many shots as your normal full attack sequence. If you gain any attacks of opportunity, you likewise cannot take advantage of them if they have occurred less than 3 initiative counts since your last shot.

Covering requires mental focus. If you are distracted or damaged, you must make a Concentration check to maintain focus. If you fail, you lose any remaining cover fire opportunities during the round. You are also considered flat-footed for any attacks directed against you while covering (and thus are denied any active Defense bonuses), since you are focusing all your attention on covering the zone.

Any potential victim can use a Hide check as a move action to avoid being subject to a cover fire opportunity. If you do not notice them with a Spot check, you cannot attack them.
Special: You must be able to reload your weapon as a free action (that is, you must have your full normal number of attacks) in order to use this maneuver.

DISTANT SHOT [Ranged 2]
You can hit targets that are further away with accuracy. You reduce any range penalties you might suffer for attacking far away targets by 1. The range penalties cannot be reduced below zero – that is, you can't actually gain a bonus from this maneuver.
Special: You may take this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, you reduce your ranged penalties by another 1, and you must possess another 3 ranks in the appropriate ranged Technique skill.

DRAW A BEAD [Ranged 3]
You take the time to aim properly at your target. You may expend either a move or a standard action to aim. By expending the action, you gain a +1 circumstance bonus on your attack roll on the next shot fired (but not the next attack sequence).

You may continue to expend up to as many actions as you have ranks in the appropriate Technique skill (depending on your weapon of choice). Each successive action spent increases your attack bonus by another +1.

The target must start and remain in your line of sight until you take your shot, but the target does not need to remain still. If the target moves out of your line of sight (even for a moment), you lose all accumulated bonuses and must begin again.
Special: If you use the benefit of this maneuver to negate the penalties of maneuvers such as Manyshot or Flurry, you may negate up to -2 of the penalties for each +1 bonus you would normally get.

MANYSHOT [Ranged 9]
You can fire two missiles at once. As a standard action, you may fire two missiles at a single opponent within 30'. Both missiles use the same attack roll (with a -6 penalty) to determine success, and deal damage normally.

This is a volley attack, and, as such, bonus dice of damage (such as bonus anatomy or speed damage) are only applied once. Damage reduction applies separately to each missile. A critical hit only applies to the first missile – other missiles are considered normal hits.
Special: You may choose this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, you gain the ability to fire another missile simultaneously (at a cumulative -2 penalty per additional missile). Each time you choose this maneuver, you must have an additional 5 ranks in the appropriate weapons Technique skill. You may only choose this maneuver three additional times, firing a maximum of four missiles with a standard action.

POINT BLANK SHOT [Ranged 2]
You are skilled at making shots at close range. You gain a +1 bonus on your attack rolls with ranged weapons at ranges up to 30'.
Special: You may take this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, you increase the point blank bonus by a further +1, but you must have 3 more ranks in the appropriate ranged Technique skill. The bonus still only applies within 30'.

SPREAD FIRE [Projectile 7]
You can spread out your shots, making it more likely that at least one will hit. Make a normal full attack action at a single target. Each shot that misses gives the next a cumulative +2 circumstance bonus. Once a shot hits, all subsequent shots suffer a -4 circumstance penalty.
Special: You must be able to reload your weapon as a free action (that is, you must have your full normal number of attacks) in order to use this maneuver.

STORM OF MISSILES [Projectile 11]
You can unleash a deadly storm of missiles on an area. As a full round action, select a target point within your weapon's first range increment. You may make one attack against any opponent within that square and every square adjacent to that square. You must have line of sight to each target, and you suffer a -4 penalty on all attacks.
Special: You may only use this maneuver if you can gain your full normal attack rate – that is, provided you can re-equip or reload your weapon as a free action.

DUAL WEAPON MASTERY MANEUVERS

Technique (Dual) is a special Technique skill. Every 2 ranks you take in it reduces your penalties for attacking with two weapons by 1, up to a minimum penalty of -2.

DUAL STRIKE [Dual 10]
You may strike rapidly with both weapons at the same time. As a standard action, you may attack with both your primary and off-hand weapon. Make separate attack rolls for each, and use your normal off-hand penalties.

Each weapon deals its normal damage. Bonus dice of damage (such as bonus anatomy or speed damage) are only applied to the first attack. If you score a critical hit, it only applies to the first attack, not both. Damage reduction (such as due to armour) is applied to each attack and must be overcome separately.
Normal: When using a standard action to attack, you cannot make an off-hand attack.

EXTRA OFF-HAND STRIKE [Dual 9 & Agility 4]
You can gain additional off-hand strikes. This maneuver grants you an additional attack with your off-hand weapon. This attack suffers a -5 penalty. You must be using a fast or average weapon in your primary hand (NOTE: basically, a finessable weapon), and a fast weapon in your off-hand to make use of this maneuver (NOTE: basically, a light finessable weapon).
Special: You may choose this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, you must have 5 more ranks in Technique (Dual), and an additional 3 ranks in Technique (Agility). This grants you an additional off-hand attack at a -5 cumulative penalty for each attack – that is, -5 for the first, -10 for the second, and -15 for the third. You may only take this maneuver three times, granting you at most four off-hand attacks.

PAIRED WEAPON STYLE [Dual 8]
You fight effectively with two one-handed weapons. Choose a single one-handed weapon. When using this weapon in each of your hands, you may treat the weapon as if it were a light weapon, rather than a one-handed weapon.

PIN SHIELD [Dual 9]
You know how to get your opponent's shield out of the way. You must use a full attack action with an extra off-hand attack to use this maneuver. With your off-hand attack, you can attempt to pin your opponent's shield.

This maneuver is the equivalent of a disarm attempt with your off-hand attack – determine everything normally for a disarm attempt, except that the end result of the disarm attempt is that you have pinned the opponent's shield out of the way for a single round (until the start of your opponent's next action). Your weapon must be no more than one size category smaller than the shield in order to attempt to pin it.

Once your opponent's shield is out of the way, the rest of your primary attacks may strike your opponent without the benefit of his shield.

If your opponent possesses defensive focus points due to active shield bonuses, he loses these immediately, but retains any other defensive focus points he possesses.
Other Prerequisites: Main Gauche feat.

REVERSING STRIKE [Dual 4]
You are skilled at fighting with your double weapon when surrounded. When wielding a double weapon (not two weapons at the same time) and surrounded by multiple foes, you gain a +2 bonus on your next attack roll each time you attack an opponent on the opposite side from the last opponent you attacked. An opponent is considered to be on the opposite side from another opponent if a line drawn from the first opponent's square to the second's passes through your square. The bonus is not cumulative. You lose this bonus either if you attack an opponent on the same side, or at the end of your turn.
Special: You may select this maneuver more than once. Each time you do, you must have 3 more ranks in Technique (Dual) and the bonus due to this maneuver increases by another +1.

More in "less-developed" form (like all of my axe-specific stuff), but that's it for now...

Golthur

2007-01-21, 12:10 PM

Bump for adding some (but not all - I stopped at "M") of the agility rules/maneuvers. Whew, this is a lot of typing :tongue:.

EDIT: Finished agility maneuvers (for now), with one outstanding mechanical concern. I have mechanics for the two maneuvers, but I'm not very happy with them. Any suggestions are welcome.

Matthew

2007-01-21, 02:32 PM

Get on with it!

Dicemaster

2007-01-21, 04:41 PM

This looks huge. Do your best, I might end up playing some of that... :smallwink:

Golthur

2007-01-21, 05:10 PM

Yes, very, very large - on the order of probably 100-150 or so completed maneuvers, with another 80-100 in various stages of development. Although, obviously, some areas are less developed than others (e.g. Rage is probably one of the smallest - and least developed - sections, Unarmed probably one of the largest).

I'm going as fast as my spare time permits :smile:

The nice thing is that going through it to post it here is helping me weed out some of the inconsistencies and things I forgot to go through and change when I changed my mind about something.

Golthur

2007-01-22, 01:39 PM

Bump for adding rest of agility maneuvers and non-Ki conditioning maneuvers...

Anyone have comments on what I've got so far?

Matthew

2007-01-22, 04:59 PM

I'm waiting for you to finish posting it all up first...

Siberys

2007-01-22, 10:07 PM

I like ToB, but this is very, very good. I may just use it alongside ToB, but, like the others, I am waiting for completion. Good Job!

Golthur

2007-01-24, 10:49 AM

Ki-based Conditioning maneuvers, Tactical, Rage, Unarmed, and Power maneuvers added. Only two more chunks left!

Golthur

2007-01-24, 09:56 PM

And it's finally all up, folks! Whew!

As I said in the intro, it's not balanced against core casters, but rather much weaker casters, so unlike Bears' fighter fix, it's not going to help you fight a core wizard. The goal, though, was to give the fighter types more options, model all the PHB warrior classes in a single framework, and above all, be fun.

Armour maneuvers, together with the x1.5 for fighting defensively, or x2 for total defense for having a shield, are designed to address the weakness of sword-n-board. Sword-n-board is now geared for defense above all else. A well-built sword-n-boarder should be nigh untouchable, and can even dish out some.

I toned back Power Attack to make it not the only game in town. Although this introduces fractions, it scales back THF to a sane level.

I modified TWF to make it not so feat heavy - you can reduce your TWF penalties just by sinking ranks into Technique (Dual). I also ditched the off-hand Strength penalty. Fighting defensively with an off-hand weapon is also useful for defense if you don't use it to attack.

The unarmed stuff is meant to make wrasslin' fun, instead of the torturous grind it ends up being when I drag out grappling. It hasn't really been playtested much, though, and it has some complexity to it, so opinions are welcome.

Any additional maneuver suggestions are (very, very) welcome, as are any suggestions to fix some of the concerns I have in a few spots (Moble Assault/Defense maneuvers, the anatomy-and-WP, and so on).

Siberys

2007-01-25, 09:30 AM

These modified Generic classes, armor as DR, etc. - could you post them or direct us to them? I'm curious as to exactly what you did.

Golthur

2007-01-25, 10:27 AM

The modified generic classes are all pretty much the same setup:
4+INT skill points/level
Fighter bonus feat schedule. (1st, 2nd, 4th, 6th, etc.) where Warriors can spend them on Combat feats, experts can spend them on Skills feats, and Adepts can spend them on Magic feats.
Each has one good, one mid, and one poor save. The good save is fixed for each class, but when you take your first class level in a class, you can flip mid and poor. This makes it so that not all warriors have crappy Will saves - or, more specifically, an adept will know what likely won't work on someone of a given class, but won't automatically know what will work.
Each class has one unique perk - warriors get bonus maneuvers per class level, experts get bonus skill points per class level, adepts get bonus mana per level. None of the other classes gets this "perk" - so, although you can do "combat stuff" as an expert, you won't be the equal of a warrior. Likewise, you can do "magic stuff" as an expert, but you're not going to be the equal of an adept.
Class defense bonuses are pretty much where you'd expect them - good progression for warriors (+3->+12), mid progression for experts (+2->+10), and poor for adepts (+2->+8).
Warriors get good (+1) BAB progression, experts get medium (+3/4) BAB progression, and adepts get poor (+1/2).
Vitality points for warriors are 1d6+4 per level, experts 1d4+4, adepts 1d3+3.
Each class gets a starting package of 4 or 5 feats, which you only get if it's your first character level. For example, the warrior starts with 5 Weapon Group/Shield/Armour proficiencies of his choice. If you multiclass into the class, you don't get the starting package, and, in fact, you have to satisfy a couple of feat/skill requirements in order to multiclass in. Otherwise, no favoured classes, no multiclass penalties.

The armour-as-DR changes mostly involve adding variable DR, tweaking the DR values, removing the bonus to Defense due to armour, and making armour reduce your class Defense bonus by -4 per category. Of course, Armour Mastery lets you negate this penalty.

The VP/WP changes I use really only happen in two areas - sneak attacks/precision damage gets reduced and gets an added "anatomical" effect when it kicks over into WP (to prevent the "instant-death-on-sneak-attack" problem), and the mechanism for dying is more, um, deadly.

I'm willing to post them, if you need the full details, but that's the gist :smile:

Siberys

2007-01-25, 09:49 PM

If you would post it or PM/email it to me, I'd really really appreciate it. If you email, the address is [email protected]

I appreciate it!

Matthew

2007-01-26, 10:06 PM

Okay, I have finally finished reading all this. I have to admit that initially I was put off by the apparent complexity of the system, but as I read on, and I became more familiar with the terms and mechanisms, I found it easier going. I still think it can be simplified in places, but I guess that is part of what we are here to discuss.
What I would really like to see are some builds to show how the combinations work. I am going to have to go through it all again before I post any critique and that will have to wait for the morning (or probably afternoon), as I am off to bed.

Well done for getting it all up anyway, Golthur!

Roderick_BR

2007-01-27, 12:56 AM

Yeah, I finally got to finish reading it too. Lemme get it straight: You buy skills points, and as you go up in ranks, you "unlock" new moves. A skill-based maneuver system. Brilliant :)
Hmm... myself, I'd make it that the characters are forced to buy the relared feat first, no cross-classing. Since fighters have more feats, they would have more to use, so they get a upper hand on it.

Golthur

2007-01-27, 11:47 AM

If you would post it or PM/email it to me, I'd really really appreciate it. If you email, the address is [email protected]

I appreciate it!
I've PMed some of the stuff - I'll PM the rest as I get time to write it up. Shouldn't take as long as posting this did, though!

Okay, I have finally finished reading all this. I have to admit that initially I was put off by the apparent complexity of the system, but as I read on, and I became more familiar with the terms and mechanisms, I found it easier going. I still think it can be simplified in places, but I guess that is part of what we are here to discuss.

Yes, I deliberately tried, whenever I introduced a new mechanic, to keep it consistent among all maneuvers that ended up using it - for example, all "force a 5' step" maneuvers use an opposed mobility check, and the opponent can avoid making the check by walking away from you. 9 times out of 10, whenever a +1-on-something maneuver lets you take it again, it does so at +3 ranks. So, although there are new rules, it should be pretty easy to keep them in your brain once they're assimilated.

The part that's probably the most complex is the unarmed chunk. I can see it being very clunky in play (and it could likely use some serious simplification), but the "feel" of it works for me. For example, "I give him a bear hug", or "I put him in a headlock" instead of "I grapple him". The mechanics are designed to be easy to remember, at any rate - grab, manipulate, hold. Which moves require escape checks and which ones require stability checks are pretty intuitively obvious, as well.

What I would really like to see are some builds to show how the combinations work. I am going to have to go through it all again before I post any critique and that will have to wait for the morning (or probably afternoon), as I am off to bed.

Well done for getting it all up anyway, Golthur!

Do you have any parameters for the builds you'd like to see? e.g. sword-n-board, monk-style martial artist, whatever? Elite array, point buy?

Yeah, I finally got to finish reading it too. Lemme get it straight: You buy skills points, and as you go up in ranks, you "unlock" new moves. A skill-based maneuver system. Brilliant :)
Hmm... myself, I'd make it that the characters are forced to buy the relared feat first, no cross-classing. Since fighters have more feats, they would have more to use, so they get a upper hand on it.

Correct. You purchase skill ranks, and, as you increase your ranks, more (and more powerful) maneuvers are then available for you to purchase. My base system has all characters getting one maneuver per level, with fighter types getting an extra one per fighter level, but those figures can be easily altered to suit your tastes.

The biggest bottleneck in the system for non-fighters is that each style requires two feats, usually, to make it available as a class skill. Fighters can use their bonus feats to do this, so it's very, very easy for them. Non-fighters have to use general feats to do it, so it's quite slow. A human could do it at 1st level if he sunk all his feats into it, but, without flaws, everyone else is waiting until 3rd. Also, in my generic class variant, the other classes' abilities (skill-monkey, magic) are also based on skill points, so a wizard who's sinking his skill points into purchasing Technique (Foo) ranks isn't sinking them into magic.

The design goal was mostly to do two things - flatten the fighter feat space, and yield more variety in an individual fighter's available moves. Many fighter feat chains require you to sink so many feats into them that they're not really worth it in the end (e.g. Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack). And, if a fighter ends up spending his entire feat load becoming a trip-monkey (for example), he then (rightfully) expects to be able to trip things all the time. The DM, getting tired of seeing everything getting tripped all the time, starts using giants and ankhegs. Fighter feels nerfed. :smallyuk: for everyone.

The purpose of all the feat prerequisites is to keep it out of the hands of lower level/non-fighter characters, but I thought making it based on a skill could do that just as well. It also meshes very well, conceptually, with my skill-based magic system. So, basically, my goal was more options, fewer prerequisites, coupled with the ability to model every fighter type I could think of.

Matthew

2007-01-27, 02:52 PM

A few typical Warrior builds (Two Handed, One Handed, Two Weapons) and a couple of Non Warrior comparative builds, was what I had in mind.

The Basics

So, why allow Warriors who don't have the Combat Skills as Class Skills to purchase them at 1:1? It seems to me you should either open up Skills so it's always 1:1 and capped by Level or just stick with the Class Skill / Cross Class Skill dynamic.

I like the clear 1 + 1 Feat per level Warrior progression (if I have understood it correctly), especially as it is virtually the same system I use! About this Five Feat Starting Package, though. I take it this is intended to replace the usual Proficiency System? Seems like five is too few to me, but I would have to see a build or two to be sure.

Why limit the number of Combat Feats? I can't see how a Warrior could get more than 2 Combat Feats per Level or any other Character more than 1 Combat Feat per Level?

Golthur

2007-01-27, 03:24 PM

A few typical Warrior builds (Two Handed, One Handed, Two Weapons) and a couple of Non Warrior comparative builds, was what I had in mind.

Well, let's see:

A two-handed warrior would probably focus more on Power, since he gets maximum leverage out of it. I'd probably also dip into Rage and Weapons Mastery a bit. He's not going to get the full benefit of the Armour style (no shield), so no point there.

A one-handed warrior I'd make sword-n-board; Armour, Weapons Mastery would be his foci. Perhaps some Power, and a couple of movement-forcing Agility maneuvers would be some extra icing on the cake.

A two-weapons warrior, I'd focus on Dual Weapons Mastery (obviously), and Agility - Mobile Assault, Mobile Defense, Running Assault (especially) - would help him. I'd do regular Weapons Mastery as well, because it gives him extra damage bonuses on each hand.

I'll see what I can knock together on these this weekend, time permitting.

The Basics

So, why allow Warriors who don't have the Combat Skills as Class Skills to purchase them at 1:1? It seems to me you should either open up Skills so it's always 1:1 and capped by Level or just stick with the Class Skill / Cross Class Skill dynamic.

Well, in truth, that's what I do in my homebrew system. All skills are purchased at 1:1 for all characters (I basically did away with the 2:1), and I separate them into "favoured" (up to lvl+3 ranks) and "unfavoured" (up to 1/2x(lvl+3) ranks) rather than "class" and "cross-class". I used the normal conventions of cross-class and class skills just to keep things familiar for here.

I like the clear 1 + 1 Feat per level Warrior progression (if I have understood it correctly), especially as it is virtually the same system I use! About this Five Feat Starting Package, though. I take it this is intended to replace the usual Proficiency System? Seems like five is too few to me, but I would have to see a build or two to be sure.

Why limit the number of Combat Feats? I can't see how a Warrior could get more than 2 Combat Feats per Level or any other Character more than 1 Combat Feat per Level?

Hmm... I'm not sure I get what you're saying here. Here's how it works, the way I do it.

Warrior
{table="head"]Level|Feats|Maneuvers
1|1 Talent + 1 Combat bonus|1 base +1 warrior
2|1 Combat bonus|1 base + 1 warrior
3|1 General|1 base + 1 warrior
4|1 Combat bonus|1 base + 1 warrior
5| |1 base + 1 warrior
6|1 General + 1 Combat bonus|1 base + 1 warrior
etc.|etc.|etc
[/table]

Expert (as an example)
{table="head"]Level|Feats|Maneuvers
1|1 Talent + 1 Skills bonus|1 base
2|1 Skills bonus|1 base
3|1 General|1 base
4|1 Skills bonus|1 base
5| |1 base
6|1 General + 1 Skills bonus|1 base
etc.|etc.|etc.
[/table]

The warrior only needs his Combat feats for the following things:
Opening up Technique skills by purchasing gateway feats.
Purchasing Weapon and Armour Proficiency groups.
Purchasing special combat feats listed in the "Other Feats" section like Ki.

The starting package gives warriors a big head start over other characters as far as weapons and armour knowledge go. A first level warrior in my system, though, will not start out with the equivalent of full armour, shield, and all martial weapons, unless he sacrifices a bit. In my setup, it's usually best to focus on what you specifically need, rather than try to grab everything. Other classes get similar packages with skills and magic.

Matthew

2007-01-27, 03:39 PM

I think if you are going to reform the Skill and Class System, you need not take any half measures. Opening it up so that all Skills are Class Skills is a good idea.

I see, I was under the impression that a Combat Maneuver was a Feat and the text was indicating a limit.

With regard to the number of Feats, I was thinking about it wrong in my head. However, I would suggest you consider the possibility of giving Warriors a clean Feat progression:

Warrior
{table="head"]Level|Feats|Manoeuvres
01|1 Combat Bonus + 1 General |1 Base + 1 Warrior
02|1 Combat Bonus|1 Base + 1 Warrior
03|1 General|1 Base + 1 Warrior
04|1 Combat Bonus|1 Base + 1 Warrior
05|1 Combat Bonus|1 Base + 1 Warrior
06|1 General|1 Base + 1 Warrior
07|1 Combat Bonus|1 Base + 1 Warrior
08|1 Combat Bonus|1 Base + 1 Warrior
09|1 General|1 Base + 1 Warrior
10|1 Combat Bonus|1 Base + 1 Warrior
11|1 Combat Bonus|1 Base + 1 Warrior
12|1 General|1 Base + 1 Warrior
13|1 Combat Bonus|1 Base + 1 Warrior
14|1 Combat Bonus|1 Base + 1 Warrior
15|1 General|1 Base + 1 Warrior
16|1 Combat Bonus|1 Base + 1 Warrior
17|1 Combat Bonus|1 Base + 1 Warrior
18|1 General|1 Base + 1 Warrior
19|1 Combat Bonus|1 Base + 1 Warrior
20|1 Combat Bonus|1 Base + 1 Warrior[/table]

Weird Concepts

Active and Passive Defence Bonuses seem a little clunkily named, but I get the necessity for differentiating. Reactive Free Actions seem easy to understand; I have to admit all the additional 'action types' that have accumulated over the years has begun to get on my nerves, but this makes sense (i.e. Free Actions that interrupt Actions)

Manoeuvre Costs

This is clear enough. I'm not that familiar with Vitality Points, but it makes sense to let them be used like Mana / Magic / Spell Points for Combat.

Golthur

2007-01-27, 03:51 PM

I see, I was under the impression that a Combat Maneuver was a Feat and the text was indicating a limit.

With regard to the number of Feats, I was thinking about it wrong in my head. However, I would suggest you consider the possibility of giving Warriors a clean Feat progression:

I see no reason why not; it's the same net number of feats, all it does is change the order. The only catch is that if you multiclass, you'll likely still get a double-feat or a no-feat level.

I think if you are going to reform the Skill and Class System, you need not take any half measures. Opening it up so that all Skills are Class Skills is a good idea.

My system works like this (although I didn't post it here because I was separating out the combat maneuver part). All skills are purchased at 1:1. By default, all skills have a 1/2 x (lvl + 3) skill cap. Starting characters get one background skill group for free, plus some extra skills based on their first class. All other skills need to be purchased with a Skill Group feat, which works very similarly to a Weapon Group. Acquiring a skill group (of either kind) permits you to purchase up to lvl + 3 ranks in any/all skills in the group.

Active and Passive Defence Bonuses seem a little clunkily named, but I get the necessity for differentiating. Reactive Free Actions seem easy to understand; I have to admit all the additional 'action types' that have accumulated over the years has begun to get on my nerves, but this makes sense (i.e. Free Actions that interrupt Actions)
Yeah, in my original stuff I have "free actions", but, properly, they interrupt someone else's actions, and so have to be something else. Left to my own devices, I'd almost rename immediate actions as "reactive swift actions". That way, there's two types - "free" and "swift", and the "reactive" means it interrupts someone else's action.

This is clear enough. I'm not that familiar with Vitality Points, but it makes sense to let them be used like Mana / Magic / Spell Points for Combat.

VP are basically the "combat fatigue"/nonlethal part of hit points - the part that doesn't represent actual wounds. It seemed an apt cost for using some maneuvers. - you do it too much, you tire yourself out, then you can't avoid that strike at the last minute.

Matthew

2007-01-27, 05:02 PM

I see. I didn't realise you were using Skill Groups.

Anatomy Style

Anatomy Style is a bit of an odd name; I might have gone with Precision / Precise Style or something like that.

Body Knowledge

There has got to be a better name for this. I can't think of one off hand, though...

Nerve Strike

A powerful Feat and an interesting one. Reminds me very much of The Legend of Fong Sai Yuk and Fist of the North Star. I wonder, though, once a day Feats don't make a great deal of sense to me. What is the fluff aspect that makes it only useable once per day? I wonder if it wouldn't be better to make it an expendtiture of Ki or of Vitality or somesuch thing.

I would have been inclined to build it differently, so that Damage scaled up at Level 6, 11 and 16 via Improved, Greater and Perfect Feats or else useable as a Full Attack Action. In that case, the Nauseating, Parylsis

Sneak Attack

When can this ability be used? Your Swarming Rules (which I like, probably because I use them under a different name in my (A)D&D Game) seem to preclude Flanking or else make it easier?

Conclusion

I think it would be better if Sneak Attack and Nerve Strike had some sort of uniform mechanic that increased Damage Dice, controlled number of uses and conditions of use.

Armour Style

Armour Mastery

I'm not clear what is going on with this. I think you must be using the Defence Bonus Variant?

Block

I would have gone for an opposed roll, but this is an interesting alternative. One thing I was wondering, though, should it not be possible for a Character to block with his armoured arm?

Combat Magnet

I'm not a big fan of this sort of ability. I think it is modelling one of the Knight Base Classes abilities?

Create Opening

Should this not just use up an Attack of Opportunity?

Defensive Focus

This adds a new layer to combat that I'm not sure I am comfortable with and I am unsure as to what is the 'defensive technique' that is being referred to in the text.

Golthur

2007-01-27, 09:09 PM

I see. I didn't realise you were using Skill Groups.

Anatomy Style

Anatomy Style is a bit of an odd name; I might have gone with Precision / Precise Style or something like that.

Hm. I was basing it off the old AD&D Oriental Adventures "Vital Area" style, so "Anatomy" seemed to fit. I guess "Vital Area" style would work as well. I don't know if I like "Precision", although it would open the style up to more maneuvers, I suppose.

Body Knowledge

There has got to be a better name for this. I can't think of one off hand, though...

Yep. You got me on this one fair and square. Be damned if I can think of a better one, though.

Nerve Strike

A powerful Feat and an interesting one. Reminds me very much of The Legend of Fong Sai Yuk and Fist of the North Star. I wonder, though, once a day Feats don't make a great deal of sense to me. What is the fluff aspect that makes it only useable once per day? I wonder if it wouldn't be better to make it an expendtiture of Ki or of Vitality or somesuch thing.

No fluff, I just mechanically didn't want it to be "at will", especially because some of the later variants are more powerful than +2d6 damage. I could probably do something like I do for Indomitable - e.g. 5/10 vitality or a use of Ki. I'm leaning towards 10, though.

I would have been inclined to build it differently, so that Damage scaled up at Level 6, 11 and 16 via Improved, Greater and Perfect Feats or else useable as a Full Attack Action. In that case, the Nauseating, Parylsis
[hr]
I think it would be better if Sneak Attack and Nerve Strike had some sort of uniform mechanic that increased Damage Dice, controlled number of uses and conditions of use.

OK, the first part I get, but I guess you missed going back and editing the part about nausea/paralysis strikes :smile:.

The main issue I have with a uniform mechanic for both (which, at its core, I do like very much - I prefer uniform, consistent mechanics) is that the two aren't really equivalent in power or intent.

Nerve Strike is meant as the martial artist's way, essentially the equivalent of Stunning Fist. Sneak Attack is meant to be more accessible to rogue-types than fighters due to the heavy skill investment. In fact, I debated whether or not to even have Sneak Attack advance as a maneuver at all, but, since it is specifically an attack to a vital area, I decided I had to put it here.

Another major difference is that Nerve Strike is usable whenever the character decides to use it (up to the limit), whereas Sneak Attack has a situational requirement that must be met. This makes Sneak Attack less valuable in and of itself were it not for the additional limitations imposed on Nerve Strike.

With regard to advancing it through feats, though, one of my goals is that, with the exception of quite powerful abilities (such as Ki), I'm trying to keep the warrior's feat requirements low. They're going to need them for weapon/armour proficiencies, and to open up the styles. I do keep some of the more powerful abilities as feats, though, but they should be a real sacrifice.

But, as I said, the anatomy section is one of the least developed areas. If you were redesigning Nerve Strike and kin, what would you suggest?

Sneak Attack

When can this ability be used? Your Swarming Rules (which I like, probably because I use them under a different name in my (A)D&D Game) seem to preclude Flanking or else make it easier?
This is another victim of the "ripped out of my house rules" problem. Again, I attempted to remove part of my rules and keep the rest, because I didn't feel like posting whole sections on VP/WP, facing, skill groups, etc., etc. Ah well.

I use facing rules, which is the "secret sauce" here. Swarming replaces normal flanking rules in my system, with attackers in rear and rear/flank squares counting as two attackers for the purposes of swarming.

When someone attacks you from your rear square, you're denied your active Defense bonuses; which makes Sneak Attack automatically active in the "when you're denied your active Defense bonuses" clause of Sneak Attack. So all a rogue-type has to do is get behind you. That's a lot easier to do when there's two of them, or if the rogue has the "Float Like a Butterfly" maneuver.

Matthew

2007-01-27, 10:18 PM

Golthur

2007-01-28, 12:23 AM

Note: Yup, I forgot how to spell paralysis and forgot to finish my thought... will finish it at some point. My idea was to have these three variants scale in power along with Nerve Strike. Maybe increasing DC or duration or potency of effects.

I do think that Sneak Attack and Nerve Strike need to be equal in power in order to build techniques off them. I'll come back to Anatomy once I have finished this initial survey...

Fair enough. I'll be patient. :wink:

Armour Mastery

I'm not clear what is going on with this. I think you must be using the Defence Bonus Variant?

Indeed so. I also reduce the class defense bonuses (rather than capping them) by 4 for light armour, 8 for medium armour, and 12 for heavy armour. This really reflects the hampered mobility that you would have without substantial practice. Armour Mastery reflects practising to use your armour better, and so reducing/eliminating any mobility reductions. Eventually, you end up getting the full class defense bonus, plus the DR of the armour.

Block
I would have gone for an opposed roll, but this is an interesting alternative. One thing I was wondering, though, should it not be possible for a Character to block with his armoured arm?

Sure, I can't see why not. I'm pretty sure I allow it unarmed; I'd likely use the same mechanic. You'd get a penalty to your block because an arm is smaller than a shield, but it would work fine.

Combat Magnet
I'm not a big fan of this sort of ability. I think it is modelling one of the Knight Base Classes abilities?

I'm not really intimately familiar with the knight, actually. The goal was to model you working very hard to protect your buddy instead of letting him get thwacked. Basically, you put yourself in the way of the blow. It's not mind control on the opponent or anything like that. (I've heard that one about the knight's challenge, don't like it myself, personally).

Create Opening
Should this not just use up an Attack of Opportunity?

That was my first thought, but I wanted it also to work when using total defense. IIRC, you can't take AoOs while using total defense.

Defensive Focus
This adds a new layer to combat that I'm not sure I am comfortable with and I am unsure as to what is the 'defensive technique' that is being referred to in the text.
My thought was that an "armour style" warrior fighting defensively is much better than one without the style. I also wanted the "armour style" warrior to be able to do more than just bumping his Defense. In my ideal world, the armour warrior should be able to fight defensively, or even engage in total defense, and be able to use a large number of his maneuvers. The defensive focus mechanism reflects his ability to simultaneously defend himself (as shown by his higher Defense), and to use his defensive maneuvers at the same time. As he overextends his defenses, though, he gets more likely to be hit.

Desperate Defense
I think this will make sense, once I figure out the specifics of Defensive Focus.

Mostly meant as a last-ditch way to help the armour style warrior negate a sneak attack, or get one free shot using Create Opening. :smile:

Fortified Defense
Again an interesting and worthwhile technique.
The crit option is especially useful since crits in VP/WP go straight to wounds. You won't like taking wound damage. :amused:

Reactive Block
I'm not sure how useful this one is likely to be, but it makes mechanical sense.

Basically helps you out when you're flat-footed. I'm tempted to make it scale, though.

Share Shield
Not my kind of thing, but I assume is linked to the Knight Base Class (I hate that Class)

Like I said, I'm not very familiar with the knight, but it was another "protect your buddy" sort of thing. My mages are very crunchy, unless they've been foolishly spending skill points that they could be using for magic on combat techniques.

Shield Bash
Okay, I get this, I think, though I probably need to know more about how Shields explicitly work in your game. I do think it should probably be available from Armour 4, rather than 5.

Agreed about the Armour 4. I'll go back and edit it.

Shields rate from +1->+4 passive cover bonus, double if all you're doing is hiding behind them. You get half the cover bonus of the shield as a bonus to Reflex saves as well (like all cover). The Shield Mastery lets you get an active bonus as well - reflecting actually doing dumb things like moving your shield around to block blows.

Shield Bash lets you get one of each back if you use a shield bash, instead of the usual nothing. Of course, if you don't have Shield Mastery, you only get the passive +1.

Shield Mastery
This seems quite standard and a handy technique for a shield user. I wonder if it shouldn't start at Armour 4, though.

Also agreed. I'm actually surprised that it doesn't. Consider it changed.

EDIT: Actually, I thought for some reason this one was set to Armour 5, like Shield Bash, which struck me as way too high. I set it at 2 because I wanted it to be possible for someone who didn't open up the skill (e.g. an expert) to take one point of Shield Mastery at 1st.

Unyielding Defense
I'm not sure I'm on board with this. Increasing DR, even at Level 7, seems a kind of very powerful ability.
True, it is powerful, but there are ways that the DR due to armour can be negated. Check out the Weapons Mastery maneuvers. Also, keep in mind that DR in my system is variable, so, for example, banded mail isn't a flat DR 7/-, everywhere. It's essentially more like DR (d6+1)/-.

EDIT: But, the more I think about this, the more I think it needs to be scaled back - perhaps +1 per 4? That means, if you take a -20 on your attack, you're getting 5 DR. DR does have diminishing returns at higher level, so I did want some means to keep it relevant without necessarily having to resort to magic.

I am wondering at this point whether it might not be easier to dispense with the Gateway Feats and instead have Feats that you invest Skill Points in and build Techniques off. There seems to me to be a lot of potential for Cross Over in this system and keeping things separate puts a strain on the system (it seems to me).
I see what you're saying (and partially agree), but part of the reason for the gateway feats on the combat side is because I have a similar structure on the magic side. It keeps the two comparable in power level. Mages have schools of magic, one school per skill; two gateway feats to open the school skill up as a class skill. Warriors have combat styles; one style per skill; two gateway feats to open the style skill up as a class skill.

In general, I have a pretty clear idea of when I'm using feats and when not. First, I use feats specifically as gateways. This is probably the part that's bothering you, because the gateway feats themselves are pretty low-level abilities that could easily be modelled as maneuvers (or, vice versa, many of the maneuvers could be feats). If I correctly catch your meaning, you're thinking something like this:

DODGE [Combat]
Benefit: You gain a +1 active dodge bonus to your Defense.
Advancement: Every 3 skill points you put into this feat, you gain an additional +1 active dodge bonus to your Defense.

Yes?

EDIT: This gets rid of one of the things I like very much about my maneuver system, though - that by advancing a single style, you can gain progressively more powerful maneuvers - e.g. Dodge -> Mobile Assault/Defense -> Running Attack - without necessarily making them all prerequisites.

The only other time I use feats to model combat abilities is for abilities that explicitly have a limited number of uses per day (for game balance, not fluff reasons). I have very, very few of these. Otherwise, if it's a combat ability, I try to dump it in a maneuver.

EDIT: I would be possible for me to change my magic side to match this sort of setup, but I'd have to rip out the "perk" for both adept and expert, and force it to be purchased with feats (e.g. Extra Mana feat, and the Open Minded feat). This would be harder to balance than the combat side, certainly. I'd need to up the bonus feat schedule to one per level, but, overall, all characters would still be weaker. Instead of getting bonus mana/skills once per level, it would be intermittent, whenever they decided to purchase more. Warriors would, overall, get fewer combat abilities, and non-warriors would be very hard-pressed to gain any significant combat abilities, even in only one area.

But, it's an interesting thought, certainly.

Matthew

2007-01-28, 01:28 PM

The Knight (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060501a&page=2) Base Class is up on the Wizards Website.

Create Opening

You could still allow it to work via Attacks of Opportunity, just by having it over ride the usual Full Defense prohibition on Attacks of Opportunity. That said, I'm not sure it should be allowed when taking the Full Defense option.

Defensive Focus

Okay, but could you explain what 'defensive technique' denotes? It seems kind of important to understanding how this manouevre works.

Unyielding Defense

I think mainly my problem is trying to figure out what this mechanic is modelling. It sounds like Combat Expertise, but with DR instead of AC, but can it be used in conjunction with Combat Expertise? Maybe it should follow a similar model, using BAB instead of Skill Ranks.
On the other hand, it starts at Level 7, so there are essentially fourteen levels at which it should scale. Perhaps you should be able to get 1 extra DR for every two Armour Skill Points you have above 10, so 2 DR at Level 9, 3 DR at Level 11, 4 DR at Level 13, 5 DR at Level 15, 6 DR at Level 17, 7 DR at Level 19, with each point of DR bringing a -2 AB penalty.

Changing the System (an ongoing discussion)

Okay, I can see why you might want to have a Combat / Magic Parallel, but I wonder how much you might really be forcing a square peg into a round hole here.

I really need to figure out how a Warrior 1 Weapon and Shield Build (or somesuch thing) might look under this system to really be able to judge, but I think it might be a bit too complicated the way its set up.

For instance, if I wanted to create a Character who used the Anatomy Skill, I would have to buy the Gateway Feats: Sneak Attack and Body Knowledge (expending my first two Feats) and then invest 12 Skill Points to qualify for the Feat. From then on a good deal of my Skill Points are going to be dumped into this Skill in order to improve it, essentially as a Rogue. Looking at my options, it's pretty clear the next thing I am going to do is try to acquire Nerve Strike, rather than invest in another Skill Type, because I am already dumping points into this Skill.

What seems more desirable to me is investing one initial Feat into Sneak Attack and then investing Skill Points into it to acquire new related techniques and having the option of upgrading by Feats somehow.

So, to take Dodge as an example, the ordinary Feat Tree would look like this:

Level 01 - Feat 1: Dodge (Active Dodge Bonus to one enemy)
Level 06 - Feat 2: Improved Dodge (Active Dodge Bonus to two enemies)
Level 11 - Feat 3: Greater Dodge (Active Dodge Bonus to three enemies)
Level 16 - Feat 4: Perfect Dodge (Active Dodge Bonus to four enemies)

Skill Points invested in Dodge would power the Dodge Armour Class Bonus:

4 Skill Points: +1 Dodge Bonus
9 Skill Points: +2 Dodge Bonus
14 Skill Points: +3 Dodge Bonus
19 Skill Points: +4 Dodge Bonus

However, the real benefit would be that the Dodge Feat Tree opens up access to a list of Sub Feats [Manoeuvres] tied into that Skill, such as: Circle, Decoy, Desperate Dodge and so on. The lists would probably cross over.

You could do the same with Block and Parry Feats and the other Feats that are otherwise accessed via Gateway Feats .

I think this would increase the customisation options available, but it's just a thought.

Okay, just seen your Edit. I think I might be advocating a system that suits me better than you. Anyway, this remains an ongoing sub discussion for me and I will probably bring it up again at some point, if you are open to discussing the pros and cons of it

CONDITIONING STYLE

Feats

Okay, so [I]Toughness, Calm and Disciplined are fairly self evident and in line with the general pattern Gateway Feats that lead to Combat Feats.

Ki

I have to admit I probably would have merged this with Calm and I almost certainly would have granted it at Conditioning 4.

Iron Skin

I have to confess, I have never liked Feats or Class Features that grant DR, but otherwise this seems to model the Barbarian's DR fine.

Ninja Feats

Enough said, really. They seem fine, maybe granted a little late or early at Level 7, depending on your perspective.

Normal Manoeuvres

Army of One

Seems like a solid enough scaling ability. I like Swarming well enough and this seems a reasonable counter. I wonder how it interacts with the Sneak Attack mechanic, though.

Aware

Another solid sounding Level 9 ability. Maybe Danger Sense might be a more appropriate name? Just a thought.

Blind Fight

Search Checks? Surely Listening and Spot checks are more appropriate. Invisible Characters can still be spotted by the way they infuence the environment, as well as the sounds they make whilst doing so. Otherwise a solid scaling ability

Indomitable

A reasonable Level 12 ability. Seems balanced with a reasonable prerequisite.

Trace

Level 7 seems a bit early for this ability. I would have probably gone for a few levels higher.

Zen Senses

An interesting one, this, presumably modelling the Monks Armour Class Bonus. I think I would just link it to Wisdom, rather than to Agility or Dexterity. I can see why you might want to, but there is no real need to complicate matters any further than making it an Insight Bonus. However, it might be worth arguing that this ought to be a Ki Manoeuvre or accessible via Ki.

Ki Manoeuvres

Inner Health

Inner Healing, maybe? I wonder whether it might not be worth making this something that is usable on others? A good Level 6 Ability.

Inner Power

I would suggest raising the prerequisite to Conditioning 9, so that a Level 6 Character has to choose between Healing and Offensive Power. I would reverse the benefits so that it goes up by +1 for every three Skill Points and lasts for a duration of rounds equivalent to your Ki Manoeuvres.

Ki Focus

An interesting ability. I wouldn't make it +1 per Ki Manoeuvre, though, otherwise it will double the effects of Inner Power. I might even be inclined to make it +1 per time taken or else link it to Skill Points, so that at Skill 23 you get +10, whilst at Skill 5 +1. i.e.

Skill 05 - +01
Skill 07 - +02
Skill 09 - +03
Skill 11 - +04
Skill 13 - +05
Skill 15 - +06
Skill 17 - +07
Skill 19 - +08
Skill 21 - +09
Skill 23 - +10

I might also make it possible to let it be used with 'taking 10'. It's a pretty powerful ability, regardless.

Ki Instincts

Another Ability I would power by Skill ranks rather than Manoeuvres known, but I can see why Manoeuvres might be preferable. I'm in two minds about it, as I might be clouding the issue by thinking of[I] Ki as seperate from conditioning. Still, if you go by Manoeuvres you open the possibility of a +40 Bonus, as eventually you may want to expand the number of Ki Manoeuvres available (i.e. 20 Levels of Manoeuvres).

Ki Mastery

Seems like a solid ability. I might have allowed it right from the get go, rather than as a Level 6 Ability.

Ki Shield

Well, DR. It's powerful. The same applies as with Unyielding Defense, especially if combined.

Ki Strike

Conversely, I am in favour of abilities that reduce the Damage Reduction of enemies! Again, I would link it into Skill, rather than Manoeuvres.

Ten Pace Strike

This strikes me as an odd Ability, but a perfectly good one. Have you looked at the Samurai abilities before? I think they model something similar...

Notes

Names: I would keep the basic names for Feats, such as Ki Strike and such, but add colourful descriptors when having your player's learn the, such as Dragon Blow and so on.

This is another set of abilities that are strangely unified by one Gateway Feat. Even so, it is not entirely obvious how to separate them.

Golthur

2007-01-28, 03:00 PM

The Knight (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060501a&page=2) Base Class is up on the Wizards Website.
Ah, I see. Yes, those abilities are similar to the Shield Ally class ability of a knight - in intent, at least, if not mechanics. My idea was to be able to have the armoured guy be a bulkwark of defense, protecting crunchy mage while he gets his spell off.

Create Opening
You could still allow it to work via Attacks of Opportunity, just by having it over ride the usual Full Defense prohibition on Attacks of Opportunity. That said, I'm not sure it should be allowed when taking the Full Defense option.

And, thinking about it more, I'm beginning to agree with you. Someone engaging in total defense wouldn't necessarily have his weapon ready to take advantage of an opportunity, even one he created. I'll change it to an AoO.

Defensive Focus
Okay, but could you explain what 'defensive technique' denotes? It seems kind of important to understanding how this manouevre works.

Ah, I didn't see what you were asking there. :redface:

The "defensive technique" mentioned in the maneuver is either fighting defensively, the total defense action, or using the Guard maneuver (which is basically Combat Expertise, renamed).

Unyielding Defense

I think mainly my problem is trying to figure out what this mechanic is modelling. It sounds like Combat Expertise, but with DR instead of AC, but can it be used in conjunction with Combat Expertise? Maybe it should follow a similar model, using BAB instead of Skill Ranks.
On the other hand, it starts at Level 7, so there are essentially fourteen levels at which it should scale. Perhaps you should be able to get 1 extra DR for every two Armour Skill Points you have above 10, so 2 DR at Level 9, 3 DR at Level 11, 4 DR at Level 13, 5 DR at Level 15, 6 DR at Level 17, 7 DR at Level 19, with each point of DR bringing a -2 AB penalty.

Well, in my head, it was being able to reposition your body just so so that a strike hits less vulnerable parts of your armour. Good question on whether it can be used in conjunction with Guard, though. I'll have to think about that.

Re: BAB vs. skill ranks. In this case, I didn't want "general fighting ability" (represented by BAB) to take the place of "knowing how to use your armour effectively" (represented by Technique (Armour) ranks).

Switching it to "per rank above 10" seems reasonable, although I'm not sure how it addresses one of my thoughts on this - that an Armour guy should be able to counteract the benefit of an equally skilled Power guy.

Perhaps it would be good to cap it at the highest DR of your armour - that is, you can turn a strike which hits a 2 DR chunk of your armour into a 3, 5, or 7 DR chunk (up to the max granted by your armour). This doesn't address the "DR gets progressively worse at higher levels" problem, though.

EDIT: I've rewritten Unyielding Defense to give you a flat +1 DR on your armour when fighting defensively. If you take the maneuver again, you get another +1 DR, and so on. This makes it weaker than Ki Shield, but it should be, since it doesn't require a use of Ki to power it. This also addresses the Guard issue, as it becomes a definitive "yes".

Changing the System (an ongoing discussion)

Okay, I can see why you might want to have a Combat / Magic Parallel, but I wonder how much you might really be forcing a square peg into a round hole here.

I really need to figure out how a Warrior 1 Weapon and Shield Build (or somesuch thing) might look under this system to really be able to judge, but I think it might be a bit too complicated the way its set up.

Warrior 1 sword-n-board? I can do that pretty quickly.

Using an array for simplicity,

Warrior 1, Weapon/Shield, Human.
Abilities: Str: 14; Dex: 12; Con: 15; Int: 13; Wis: 8; Cha: 10.
Starting Package Feats: Armour Proficiency, Medium; Armour Proficiency, Light; Shield Proficiency; Weapon Group (Heavy Blades); Weapon Group (Bow)
Human Feat: whatever
1st Level Feat: whatever
Warrior 1 Bonus: Ironclad.
Skill points: (4 + 1 (human) + 1 (INT)) x 4 = 24.
Skill ranks: Technique (Armour) 4, 20 skill points free.
Maneuvers: Shield Mastery, Block.

He ends up with:
Defense: +0 (class less armour, assuming Medium armour) + 3 (large shield passive) +1 (shield active) +1 (active dodge, Dex), for passive defense +3, active defense +5.
Attacks: +1 (BAB) + 2 (Str), for +3, damage = 1d8 (long sword) + 2 (Str).

EDIT: A typical suit of medium armour (chainmail) would have roughly 1d6 DR.

Another useful tactic to be more offense-focused might be to take Brute, Potence, and Technique (Power) 4 ranks, and take Power Attack instead of Block.

For instance, if I wanted to create a Character who used the Anatomy Skill, I would have to buy the Gateway Feats: Sneak Attack and Body Knowledge (expending my first two Feats) and then invest 12 Skill Points to qualify for the Feat. From then on a good deal of my Skill Points are going to be dumped into this Skill in order to improve it, essentially as a Rogue. Looking at my options, it's pretty clear the next thing I am going to do is try to acquire Nerve Strike, rather than invest in another Skill Type, because I am already dumping points into this Skill.

What seems more desirable to me is investing one initial Feat into Sneak Attack and then investing Skill Points into it to acquire new related techniques and having the option of upgrading by Feats somehow.

I see what you're getting at here. Yeah, the Nerve Strike/Sneak Attack setup is a bit complex. This comes from me wanting to prevent 1st level characters from getting Nerve Strike, but wanting to allow it as a viable path through to the Anatomy skill. I don't get where the "12 skill points" is coming from, though, but I'll see what I can do to simplify this. I'll likely replace the gateway.

So, to take Dodge as an example, the ordinary Feat Tree would look like this:

Level 01 - Feat 1: Dodge (Active Dodge Bonus to one enemy)
Level 06 - Feat 2: Improved Dodge (Active Dodge Bonus to two enemies)
Level 11 - Feat 3: Greater Dodge (Active Dodge Bonus to three enemies)
Level 16 - Feat 4: Perfect Dodge (Active Dodge Bonus to four enemies)

Skill Points invested in Dodge would power the Dodge Armour Class Bonus:

4 Skill Points: +1 Dodge Bonus
9 Skill Points: +2 Dodge Bonus
14 Skill Points: +3 Dodge Bonus
19 Skill Points: +4 Dodge Bonus

However, the real benefit would be that the Dodge Feat Tree opens up access to a list of Sub Feats [Manoeuvres] tied into that Skill, such as: Circle, Decoy, Desperate Dodge and so on.
I'm assuming these would be normal feats, in your view. What sort of prerequisites would you have in mind?

You could do the same with Block and Parry Feats and the other Feats that are otherwise accessed via Gateway Feats .

I think this would increase the customisation options available, but it's just a thought.

I see what you're getting at, but I'd like to see how you handle the subfeats. One of my goals was to flatten the feat space a bit.

CONDITIONING STYLE

Feats

Okay, so [I]Toughness, Calm and Disciplined are fairly self evident and in line with the general pattern Gateway Feats that lead to Combat Feats.

Ki

I have to admit I probably would have merged this with Calm and I almost certainly would have granted it at Conditioning 4.

Ki abilities are somewhat more powerful than the other abilities. I wanted a third gateway to unlock them. I also wanted the conflict between the easy "Toughness" way, and the harder "Calm + Ki" way. Short-term vs. long-term, and not every Conditioning fighter is a Ki warrior.

My original model for this was the AD&D Oriental Adventures "Physical and Mental Conditioning" style, which explains why the two things are merged together here. There's also a common thread of "discipline" between the two.

Iron Skin

I have to confess, I have never liked Feats or Class Features that grant DR, but otherwise this seems to model the Barbarian's DR fine.

1/- natural armour isn't that much. It's basically barbarian toughness, as you said. Or, alternately, the monk who flogs himself regularly to toughen his skin.

I suppose it could be changed to DR 1/lethal, which might make more sense.

Ninja Feats

Enough said, really. They seem fine, maybe granted a little late or early at Level 7, depending on your perspective.

Yeah, I posted these just for fun, really.

Army of One

Seems like a solid enough scaling ability. I like Swarming well enough and this seems a reasonable counter. I wonder how it interacts with the Sneak Attack mechanic, though.

It doesn't. I have another (unposted) maneuver that negates your penalties to your view in your flank/rear squares. Once the penalty to your rear is negated, you're essentially immune to sneak attack.

Aware

Another solid sounding Level 9 ability. Maybe Danger Sense might be a more appropriate name? Just a thought.

Sure. Done.

Blind Fight

Search Checks? Surely Listening and Spot checks are more appropriate. Invisible Characters can still be spotted by the way they infuence the environment, as well as the sounds they make whilst doing so. Otherwise a solid scaling ability

I can't believe I typed Search. Yes, I meant Spot. :redface:

Indomitable

A reasonable Level 12 ability. Seems balanced with a reasonable prerequisite.

It's meant to keep the fighter going after the mage even after the spell has worked on him. And a high enough level fighter certainly has enough vitality to last several rounds.

Trace
Level 7 seems a bit early for this ability. I would have probably gone for a few levels higher.

Hmm.. Level 9 seems reasonable.

Zen Senses
An interesting one, this, presumably modelling the Monks Armour Class Bonus. I think I would just link it to Wisdom, rather than to Agility or Dexterity. I can see why you might want to, but there is no real need to complicate matters any further than making it an Insight Bonus. However, it might be worth arguing that this ought to be a Ki Manoeuvre or accessible via Ki.

Yes, this is more or less what this ability was for - in combination with Dodge and Ki Instincts. Flipping it entirely to Wisdom seems reasonable enough. The armour restrictions should stay, though.

Ki Manoeuvres

Inner Health

Inner Healing, maybe? I wonder whether it might not be worth making this something that is usable on others? A good Level 6 Ability.

This is part of my "fluff" - Ki is good for affecting you, personally, with a few very notable exceptions, but not very good at influencing the world. Design-wise, this is mostly to avoid stepping too much on the toes of the magic-folks too much.

Inner Power

I would suggest raising the prerequisite to Conditioning 9, so that a Level 6 Character has to choose between Healing and Offensive Power. I would reverse the benefits so that it goes up by +1 for every three Skill Points and lasts for a duration of rounds equivalent to your Ki Manoeuvres.

Yes, that works, as well. I already deliberately have a similar conflict at level 3 (Ki Focus vs. Ki Instincts).

Ki Focus

An interesting ability. I wouldn't make it +1 per Ki Manoeuvre, though, otherwise it will double the effects of Inner Power. I might even be inclined to make it +1 per time taken or else link it to Skill Points, so that at Skill 23 you get +10, whilst at Skill 5 +1. i.e.

Skill 05 - +01
Skill 07 - +02
Skill 09 - +03
Skill 11 - +04
Skill 13 - +05
Skill 15 - +06
Skill 17 - +07
Skill 19 - +08
Skill 21 - +09
Skill 23 - +10

I might also make it possible to let it be used with 'taking 10'. It's a pretty powerful ability, regardless.

Yes, I wanted it predominantly to be a "I really have to make this skill check" sort of thing. But, you're right that it steps on Inner Power's toes a bit. Fluffwise, it's supposed to represent "focus under duress", but, balance-wise, it's fine for "take 10" circumstances as well.

Hmm. I'll have to think about the skill point thing. I wanted ki maneuvers to be based on enhancing your use of ki, not general physical/mental conditioning.

Ki Instincts

Another Ability I would power by Skill ranks rather than Manoeuvres known, but I can see why Manoeuvres might be preferable. I'm in two minds about it, as I might be clouding the issue by thinking of[I] Ki as seperate from conditioning. Still, if you go by Manoeuvres you open the possibility of a +40 Bonus, as eventually you may want to expand the number of Ki Manoeuvres available (i.e. 20 Levels of Manoeuvres).

No, you've got it right. Ki is somewhat separate from conditioning. While it's true that mental conditioning enhances your use of Ki, it's not Ki in and of itself.

Hm. I can see what you mean by the blow-up with the number of maneuvers, though. I'll have to think about this one a bit.

Ki Mastery

Seems like a solid ability. I might have allowed it right from the get go, rather than as a Level 6 Ability.

I was of two minds about this when I designed it. I opted for the "safer" route. I suppose I could downgrade it to level 4; so base ki at 1st, then 4th, 7th, etc.

Ki Shield

Well, DR. It's powerful. The same applies as with Unyielding Defense, especially if combined.

True, but Ki Shield doesn't stack with manufactured armour DR, which is what the DR bonus from Unyielding Defense is. The two don't stack, so only the greater bonus prevails.

EDIT: I've clarified that this is so in the Unyielding Defense text.

Ki Strike

Conversely, I am in favour of abilities that reduce the Damage Reduction of enemies! Again, I would link it into Skill, rather than Manoeuvres.

Yes, I'll have to think about this in light of the "+40 bonus at level 20" problem.

Ten Pace Strike
This strikes me as an odd Ability, but a perfectly good one. Have you looked at the Samurai abilities before? I think they model something similar...

Which Samurai? Funnily enough, I modelled this one after a psychic warrior power one of my characters once had from some 3rd-party splatbook, and the old AD&D Oriental Adventures "One Finger" martial art maneuver. Basically, the martial arts fluff was that the practitioner tries pushing a bell ever lighter and lighter, until eventually, he can ring the bell without even touching it.

Notes

Names: I would keep the basic names for Feats, such as Ki Strike and such, but add colourful descriptors when having your player's learn the, such as Dragon Blow and so on.

This is another set of abilities that are strangely unified by one Gateway Feat. Even so, it is not entirely obvious how to separate them.

As I said, this was modelled after the old AD&D Oriental Adventures "Physical and Mental Conditioning" martial arts style. I also like the flavour of, Ki-wise, physical conditioning being just as important as mental.

Matthew

2007-01-28, 08:57 PM

Changing the System (an ongoing discussion)

Right, I see the Warrior 1 now. It does seem kind of underpowered without access to the full array of Simple and Martial Weapon Proficiencies, but I suppose that must be part of the goal. I sympathise, as I rolled Base Attack Bonus and Weapon Proficiencies into a Skill Mechanic. Armour Proficiency has never really appealed to me, though.

The 12 Skill Points thing lies in the prerequisites for Sneak Attack, Sneak and Hide 4 Ranks each, as well as Knowledge (Anatomy). To scale up Sneak Attack as written, a Character has to sink Skill Points into all three Skills - in essence you can't play a non stealthy Sneak Attack Character (which I think is reasonable, but constricting).

You rightly suppose that my proposal would be to have Dodge, Block and Parry operate as normal Feats. Prerequisites for the advanced versions would be:

Dodge
Prerequisite: Dexterity 13,

Improved Dodge
Prerequisite: Dexterity 15, Dodge, Character Level 6,

Greater Dodge
Prerequisite: Dexterity 17, Dodge, Improved Dodge, Character Level 11,

Perfect Dodge
Prerequisite: Dexterity 19, Dodge, Improved Dodge, Greater Dodge, Character Level 16

Parry
Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +1,

Improved Parry
Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +6, Parry,

Greater Parry
Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +11, Parry, Improved Parry,

Perfect Parry
Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +16, Parry, Improved Parry, Greater Parry,

Block
Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +1,

Improved Block
Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +6, Block,

Greater Block
Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +11, Block, Improved Block,

Perfect Block
Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +16, Block, Improved Block, Greater Block,

I could definitely see a ton of Sub Feats associated with these, some of which you have already made and some which spring to mind rather naturally. A project probably worth keeping in mind...

CONDITIONING TECHNIQUE

Ki Feats

Ten Pace Strike

The Complete Warrior version, I think. Not sure, I'm not that familiar. Something to do with the (A)D&D 1.x Oriental Adventures Samurai Staredown thing, I think. Bears more investigation.

POWER TECHNIQUE

Special Rules

I don't like this half Strength for Light Weapons thing. I would make it full Strength Bonus for Light and One Handed, double Strength Bonus Damage for Two Handed Style (except for Light Weapons). Much simpler, no fractions and Light Weapons like Short Swords don't suffer needlessley.

Gateway Feats

Brute

Interesting Feat, this. Kind of like getting Specialisation without Focus, but not quite, since it applies to virtually all weapons and changes with weapon type (as per your altered damage bonus ratios)

Potence

Yeah, these Gateway Feats follow the established pattern. Seems logical

Power Manoeuvres

Change Momentum

Quite a neat little Level Five Ability, this. I take it that the new Power Attack Penalties do not apply to any further attacks, or do they?

Cleave

Interesting rolling up of Cleave and Great Cleave. I think I might have been inclined to allow an extra cleave attack at levels 3, 6, 9, 12, 15 and 18, rather than 4, 7, 10, 13, 16 and 19, but I see why you are starting with Base Attack Bonus 4 and both make sense, really. I think the Special Feature is interesting, as well, putting a limit on the power of Cleave. I take it this is an exception to the rule that prevents multiple uses of Manoeuvres in a single round.

Clip

A reasonable Level 10 Ability, not too powerful, but not too weak.

Ferocious Onslaught

Another interesting concept. I wonder what happens in the case of two Characters using this Feat against one another, though? Is it appropriate to allow Ferocious Onslaught to be used as part of Defensive Fighting? It appears that there is nothing stopping one using it in conjunction with Guard either. Level 6 seems appropriate.

Knock Down

Maybe a bit powerful for Level 2, but maybe not. Not sure. Otherwise seems like a good ability.

Power Stun

I often wonder whether this sort of thing should require a Fortitude or Willpower Saving Throw. Is the Strength Bonus affected by Multipliers? I think I might have been inclined to use [10 + Power Attack Damage Bonus + Strength Damage Bonus], as then the difficulty would not automatically scale. I might also have made this a lower level ability.

Rooted Stance

A very reasonable ability, but Power 1 seems a very low prerequisite. I would have made it at least Power 4.

Swing Through

Seems to me that this should be Power 9, otherwise Characters with Main Gauche will get to use it before other type of Fighter (and, after all, it is a Power Manoeuvre)

Power Attack

Quite a scale back this. I think I would have made it Power 4, but I see why you have opted for Power 3; it might have been more consistant to make it Power 2, though. The maximum available Power Attack is -11 AB and +11 DB at Level 19 by this system; I think I would have made it every point above three, as it has already been vastly scaled back with the removal of its Two Handed Weapon application.

Notes

Overall, I would say that Power Technique has some interesting Manoeuvres and changes, but I do feel it could be somewhat simplified. It is definitely in need of some additional Manoeuvres, probably higher level ones that sacrifice Iterative Attacks for more Bonus Damage. In some ways, I think Power Technique steps on the toes of Rage Technique or vice versa. Not sure.

Golthur

2007-01-30, 10:27 AM

No problem - I appreciate the effort you're putting in here. Forum was flaky for me yesterday as well. I suspect the new comic had something to do with it.

Right, I see the Warrior 1 now. It does seem kind of underpowered without access to the full array of Simple and Martial Weapon Proficiencies, but I suppose that must be part of the goal. I sympathise, as I rolled Base Attack Bonus and Weapon Proficiencies into a Skill Mechanic. Armour Proficiency has never really appealed to me, though.

Yes, that is somewhat the point. There's an additional rule I have on the Weapon Group Proficiencies which mitigates it somewhat, though. If you are using a Combat bonus feat, you can purchase two "simple" weapon groups for one feat slot - e.g. Clubs/Maces, or Crossbows. But, yes, warriors deliberately do not have all of the martial and simple weapons, as well as all armour proficiencies and shield proficiency at 1st level. But it does give them light/medium armour, shield, a melee and a ranged weapon, and what first level character is going to be able to afford heavy armour, anyway? :wink:

The 12 Skill Points thing lies in the prerequisites for Sneak Attack, Sneak and Hide 4 Ranks each, as well as Knowledge (Anatomy). To scale up Sneak Attack as written, a Character has to sink Skill Points into all three Skills - in essence you can't play a non stealthy Sneak Attack Character (which I think is reasonable, but constricting).

Yes, I thought "sneak attack" implied stealthy, and I did want to keep it more in the rogue-ish ballpark than in the warrior's. I'm mulling around ideas for changing the gateways of the whole anatomy/precision system, perhaps Skill Focus (Heal), or something similar? This somewhat violates my original design criteria for the two-feat chains, which was that the first feat was useful, but I admit the whole anatomy gateway setup is mangled. :redface:

You rightly suppose that my proposal would be to have Dodge, Block and Parry operate as normal Feats. Prerequisites for the advanced versions would be:

I could definitely see a ton of Sub Feats associated with these, some of which you have already made and some which spring to mind rather naturally. A project probably worth keeping in mind...

I'm interested to see how you tie the subfeats into these, particularly with respect to skill points. For example, Dodge might tie into Mobile Assault/Mobile Defense/Running Attack, but I'd like to see how you would hook this up.

Ten Pace Strike
The Complete Warrior version, I think. Not sure, I'm not that familiar. Something to do with the (A)D&D 1.x Oriental Adventures Samurai Staredown thing, I think. Bears more investigation.

I checked out Complete Warrior, and they had basically a kiai, together with frightful presence (which increases with level). Something for me to consider adding. Old Oriental Adventures Samurai also has frightful presence. Maybe the potency would depend on how many uses of Ki you have left? That might also be another option for my Ki maneuvers - e.g. you get +2 per use of Ki you have remaining. This front-loads it a little more than I'd like, though.

My purpose with Ten Pace Strike was to give an unarmed master some sort of ranged weapon, so he doesn't have to ping with his crossbow. :smile:

I don't like this half Strength for Light Weapons thing. I would make it full Strength Bonus for Light and One Handed, double Strength Bonus Damage for Two Handed Style (except for Light Weapons). Much simpler, no fractions and Light Weapons like Short Swords don't suffer needlessley.

The power damage rule is just the one I use. Use any rule you like, the only important thing for the purposes of the system are that anything that's a power damage bonus is multiplied the same way your Strength bonus is due to your weapon.

It doesn't bother me that much, obviously. I preferred 3.0's x1.5 to 3.5's x2, even though the latter is easier to calculate, and I never liked the idea of getting +8 Str damage on a dagger strike. I also have a Power descriptor attached to particularly "forceful" weapons, which improves the multiplier by +0.5, so a two-handed Power weapon would actually end up being x2. You're right, though, that the short sword seems to gets singled out unfairly.

Gateway Feats

Brute
Interesting Feat, this. Kind of like getting Specialisation without Focus, but not quite, since it applies to virtually all weapons and changes with weapon type (as per your altered damage bonus ratios)

I can't take credit for this one - it's from the Netbook of Feats, I believe. It fit my flavour for the style, though.

Potence

Yeah, these Gateway Feats follow the established pattern. Seems logical

Yes, the point of the two combat feat investment is to make it a real cost for a non-warrior to ever acquire these skills as class skills. This inherently restricts them to the weaker maneuvers, unless they dramatically sacrifice other aspects of their character.

Power Manoeuvres

Change Momentum

Quite a neat little Level Five Ability, this. I take it that the new Power Attack Penalties do not apply to any further attacks, or do they?

They have to do it between attacks, so they can't just change it after their last attack, but, yes, the new penalties (and bonuses) apply for all subsequent attacks. It basically lets a fighter whomp easy-to-hit mooks and take big power attack penalty at the start of their iterative attacks, and change it halfway through so they can still hit them for the latter half.

Cleave

Interesting rolling up of Cleave and Great Cleave. I think I might have been inclined to allow an extra cleave attack at levels 3, 6, 9, 12, 15 and 18, rather than 4, 7, 10, 13, 16 and 19, but I see why you are starting with Base Attack Bonus 4 and both make sense, really. I think the Special Feature is interesting, as well, putting a limit on the power of Cleave. I take it this is an exception to the rule that prevents multiple uses of Manoeuvres in a single round.

Yes, the point was to roll up the entire feat chain, since, really, the benefit of extra cleaves is minimal, IMHO almost not worth a feat. Rolling it back to rank 3 won't alter my primary intent a great deal, which was to limit it to 1st level warriors who actually take Technique (Power) as a class skill. For characters without the skill, it moves it back from level 5 to level 3. Not sure how I feel about this one, but likely I should set it equal to or higher than where I set Power Attack.

Actually, the rule is only for maneuvers which use an attack. Cleave has a situational/tactical "cost", rather than an action or attack cost, so there's no conflict there. The rule also permits you to use more than one maneuver in a round, so long as they're different.

Clip

A reasonable Level 10 Ability, not too powerful, but not too weak.

Yes, it can somewhat fall apart if you have a +5 holy-bane-shocking weapon sort of thing going on, but you would be getting that extra damage on the power attack, anyway.

Ferocious Onslaught

Another interesting concept. I wonder what happens in the case of two Characters using this Feat against one another, though? Is it appropriate to allow Ferocious Onslaught to be used as part of Defensive Fighting? It appears that there is nothing stopping one using it in conjunction with Guard either. Level 6 seems appropriate.

Good catch. No, I'd say you can't use it when fighting defensively or using guard, since it models an all-out assault. I'll revise the text. So, in your case of two characters using it against each other, it would be first come, first serve. :amused:

Knock Down
Maybe a bit powerful for Level 2, but maybe not. Not sure. Otherwise seems like a good ability.

My limiting factors were that it was conditional (only 10 or more), and that you have to expend vitality to do it, and that the trip could fail. I thought there were enough points of failure in the chain that it wasn't too, too powerful, even for level two.

Power Stun
I often wonder whether this sort of thing should require a Fortitude or Willpower Saving Throw. Is the Strength Bonus affected by Multipliers? I think I might have been inclined to use [10 + Power Attack Damage Bonus + Strength Damage Bonus], as then the difficulty would not automatically scale. I might also have made this a lower level ability.

Since your limit on your power attack damage bonus is 1/2 your ranks in Technique (Power), this fits. I like the change, I'll make it. Yes, I debated what level to put it at. It has, like Knock-Down, several points of failure - damage amount, vitality cost, and saving throw. The payoff is fairly decent, though. The earliest I can really see it is level 6, but I'll lower it.

Rooted Stance

A very reasonable ability, but Power 1 seems a very low prerequisite. I would have made it at least Power 4.

I think you're somewhat right on the requisite, although I'm thinking more Power 3. At one point I went through each of the styles and found the weakest maneuver and moved it to the "2 or below" area so that people who took a few ranks in the style could do something.

Swing Through
Seems to me that this should be Power 9, otherwise Characters with Main Gauche will get to use it before other type of Fighter (and, after all, it is a Power Manoeuvre)

Yes, it's meant to be used with iterative attacks, not off hand attacks. Basically, it represents you swinging your one weapon through, missing, and having it gain momentum (+1/+1), along with a +5 to negate the iterative attack penalty. I'll fix the text to more accurately explain the attempt. The text at the bottom is boiler plate. I'll add a clarification "with the same weapon" to the text, and bump it to the point where you get iterative attacks.

Power Attack
Quite a scale back this. I think I would have made it Power 4, but I see why you have opted for Power 3; it might have been more consistant to make it Power 2, though. The maximum available Power Attack is -11 AB and +11 DB at Level 19 by this system; I think I would have made it every point above three, as it has already been vastly scaled back with the removal of its Two Handed Weapon application.

True, that starts it at +1, which makes sense. I'll change it to rank 2, and Cleave to one higher at rank 3. I'll make the change. With a Power weapon, you still get your 2:1, so it ends up being -11AB, +22 DB, but, yes, it is a bit of a tone back, mostly because I want to add other ways of improving damage. It improves when combined with Weapon Focus, and the various maneuvers that let you punch through armour, though.

Notes

Overall, I would say that Power Technique has some interesting Manoeuvres and changes, but I do feel it could be somewhat simplified. It is definitely in need of some additional Manoeuvres, probably higher level ones that sacrifice Iterative Attacks for more Bonus Damage. In some ways, I think Power Technique steps on the toes of Rage Technique or vice versa. Not sure.

Yes, fewer than I thought. I had thought I had quite a few more maneuvers. I'll have to work the ol' brain a bit for some more, and, of course, will freely add offered ideas from any brainstormers here. :tongue:

Matthew

2007-01-31, 09:11 PM

Golthur

2007-01-31, 11:35 PM

Speed Based Damage

Do you apply Speed Based Damage before or after regular damage [i.e. If a character causes enough overall damage to affect his opponent's wound points do you apply the Speed Based Damage to Vitality before regular damage?].
After. So, if you had 12 vitality, and an attack did 11 regular + 5 speed, you would take 12 points of vitality and no wounds. If you had only 9 vitality with the same damage, you would take 9 vitality and 2 wounds.

Initiative Checks
Seems sensible and straight forward.

Mobility Checks

Wouldn't it be easier to just have them add 1 for every 5' of Movement they possess?

I did this to make the base of the system (+0) "human norm", like nearly everything else in the d20 system, but, mathematically, there would be no difference between the two, and yours is simpler.

Golthur

2007-02-02, 11:43 AM

CHANGING THE SYSTEM (an ongoing discussion)

The Parry, Block and Dodge dynamic has a flaw in Two Weapon Fighting. I'm going to have to give it some thought before I can give you a reasonable answer about how I might rearrange things. As I sadi, though, it probably would end up more suitable for me than you, since a lot of my thoughts are gravitating towards how this would interact with my House Ruled (A)D&D Game.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. At least for Parry, if a TWF has Main Gauche, he can sacrifice his offhand attack and gain a significant boost to his Defense for at least one attack.

Regardless of whether it is tailored more for your game than mine, I'm still interested to see what you come up with :smile:

POWER TECHNIQUE

Power Attack

How would you end up getting a 2:1 Ratio? 1.5:1 I see, but I cannot figure out how it might become 2:1. In 3.0 it was actually 1:1 for all weapons, whether Light, One Handed or Two Handed.

A "Power" weapon increases the multiplier by 0.5, so a light power weapon would be x1.0, one-handed power weapon x1.5 and two-handed power weapon x2.0.

Improved Initiative

Fair enough. Lightning Reflexes also seems like something that might belong here (though I think it should grant a +4 Bonus as well).

Lightning Reflexes is a reasonable prerequisite. I'll add it.

Quick Pace

Interesting. I have to admit, I have never really been on board with the whole Base Movement Increase stuff. Run always seemed more than enough to me, but then I don't really see why Heavy Armour should reduce Base Speed to 20' either. Otherwise, this sounds very much like the Dash Feat.

I capped it at your Dex bonus so that it wouldn't be silly. The intent was Quick Pace + Rage Speed and/or Ki Speed (not here) would be the equivalent of barbarian and monk fast movement, without making them have a 90 move all the time. I don't mind someone being a little bit faster than most (heck, I have a faster pace than most other people), but not "I move as fast as a horse" faster. It doesn't bother me so much when you're forced to use adrenaline (rage) or mystic forces (ki) to do it. :wink:

Fast
One problem I have noticed with dividing these gateway Feats up so much is that it makes finding appropriate names increasingly difficult. I know how difficult it can be to come up with one decent name, never mind a several with similar themes. There is probably a solution to this somewhere, through the power of adjectives, no doubt.

Yes, I need a better naming system. Perhaps I should name them all the same - Combat Training (Foo) or something. At least that would save me some trouble.

Acrobatic Attack
Interesting Manoeuvre. If you are going to allow it to be taken multiple times, there should be an Agility Technique Prerequisite that increases with each multiple, as you have done elsewhere . I would also be inclined to tie usage to the Character's Tumble or Jump Skill [i.e. Jump or Tumble must be equal to Agility Technique to fully use this Manoeuvre]. Otherwise, it seems like a reasonable Level 4 Manoeuvre.

You're correct. It's that way in my notes, just an oversight when copying it over to the forum. I'll add the Jump/Tumble cap as well, since that's really the intent.

Advance
Although a reasonable Manoeuvre, I have to say I think this would be beset situated in another category. Forcing somebody to retreat, strikes me as something other than an Agile and Tactical, but I can see the case for why it might be. If it were moved, it would probably need a new mechanic.

You're thinking more Power? I had entertained that thought as well (and it's not like I'm flush with Power maneuvers, so it would work). If I move it, as you say, I'd have to come up with another mechanic - likely something similar to Bull Rush or Overrun?

Burst
Interesting idea, thought the name could maybe be better. So, we're looking at a Manoeuvre that grants 1D6 at Level 1, 2D6 at Level 4, 3D6 at Level 7, 4D6 at Level 10, 5D6 at Level 13, 6D6 at Level 16 and 7D6 at Level 19. My main quibble with how it works is how it compares to [I]Sneak Attack, as Improved Sneak Attack is available earlier (Anatomy 6 or Level 3) and progresses at the same rate. I can't decide whether I think that only allowing it once per round is sufficient balance against Sneak Attack being only used against Flat Footed or similar foes. One question that leaps to mind is whether these can be used in combination? Also, should it be allowed for use with Ranged Weapons?

My thought was that the tactical situations even each other out, more or less. Sneak Attack can be used against a foe multiple times, but you have to be in the right situation (and thus, might not get one). This can never be used more than once against a particular foe, and might not work, but you always get to try once. Yes, it can be used in combination with Sneak Attack (ouch!), since the damage bonus types are different. I wouldn't allow it with ranged weapons - the idea is an unexpected melee attack. I can clarify the text on both counts.

Circle
I like this Manoeuvre quite a lot. Seems a bit harsh that it is a combined Tactical and Agility Technique at such a low level, but it seems logical enough.

I wanted it available at a lower level, but you had to really, really want it :amused:

Being able to swing an opponent into the rest of your group and subject him to AoOs is pretty powerful (and fun) stuff.

Decoy
I think I might have simplified this so that when any opponent misses a character with Dodge, that character can expend one point of vitality for every point of Agility Technique above three he possesses to gain the equivalent Circumstance Bonus to his next Attack. It probably needs a better name as well, but I cannot think of a snappy one off hand.

I'm not sure if I like the revision. It's admittedly simpler, but I don't really want it to be a routine "every time you're missed" sort of thing. I prefer the "only if you put special effort into not being hit" flavour as it stands.

You should be glad it doesn't have its original name - which was "deke" (Canadian hockey slang for doing exactly what this maneuver says you do).

Dodge
I'm not a big fan of linking Dodge to Dexterity. To me, Dexterity is your natural talent to avoid attacks, whilst Dodge is your training. I also think this is the sort of thing that should start at a higher Agility Technique, just like Sneak Attack and Burst, but I can see why you might want it to begin at 1 (opening it to those who have only lightly invested. All the same, it seems to me consistancy is more attractive than leniancy for this sort of system.
Desperate Dodge is worded a little unclearly, as it seems to suggest the more ranks you have the more expensive it is to gain a +1 Bonus.

I can see why you'd like that, and, in fact, I originally had it the way you say. The Technique (Agility) prereqs each time keep it balanced, I suppose. Yes, I put it at 1 to let 1st level characters who haven't sunk feats pick up Dodge.

I'll reword Desperate Dodge. The intent is +1 per point of vitality spent, and you can expend up to 1 point of vitality per rank in Technique (Agility).

Elusive Target
Whilst I doubt many characters are going to make use of Desperate Dodge by itself, I think they will be quick to pick it up in combination with this Manoeuvre - it may even be a little bit too powerful for Level 2. I like it, though.

That was the point. On occasion, I thought someone would use desperate dodge, but most of the time, they just wouldn't think of it. This lets them go "oh yeah". Boosting the level to 4ish wouldn't be out of line.

Feet of the Cat
The number of vitality points allowed to be spent should not only be limited by Agility Technique, but also by Skill Ranks in the relevent skill, in my opinion. Also, I would be inclined to set it at 1 per rank above 3 (after all you start with this at Agility Technique 6), so that the maximum is +20.

I opted for the one per rank to keep it consistent with desperate dodge and easy to remember, but, yeah, starting out with +6 when you first pick it up is a bit much, +3 is reasonable.

Acrobatic Charge seems a bit out of place here. I think it probably either ought to be part of Acrobatic attack or its own Manoeuvre.

My original thinking was that Feet of the Cat helps you get over obstacles, and Acrobatic Charge is charging over obstacles, but it's reasonable enough to put it in its own maneuver and put Feet of the Cat as a prereq.

Float Like a Butterfly

This quite a cool idea. Level 7 seems appropriate, but it is worth remembering that an opponent using the Full Attack Action can move 5' during his attack action, so it might not be as powerful as you imagine. All the same, it is potentially going to ruin a Two Weapon Fighter's day.

I had forgotten that you can 5' step mid-attack, but even still it's fairly powerful, since you can do it again after your attacker has already used his 5' move. In fact, it eliminates my worry that it was too powerful.

Never did come up with the "Sting Like a Bee" maneuver, though :wink:

Flurry
The entry level, penalties and advance rate for this Manoeuvre seem pretty harsh (Levels 4, 9, 14 and 19). I would have made it dependent on Base Attack Bonus 1, 6, 11 and 16 as well as Agility Technique and linked it to Iterative Attacks, so that it essentially formed an extra set of Two Weapon Fighting Attacks with the usual -2 AB Penalties or else had an Improved Version that lowered the -4 AB to -2 AB [the final result at Level 20 being twelve attacks in combination with Two Weapon Fighting: 16 / 16 / 16 / 11 / 11 / 11 / 6 / 6 / 6 / 1 / 1 / 1]. I definitely would not allow it with Ranged Weapons.

The goal was to fuse monk flurry, plus rapid shot together - it's not really for TWF; this is more for extra attacks with your primary weapon. TWF is handled by the "Extra Off Hand Attack" maneuver, which uses Technique (Dual), a little more palatable for a TWF.

The penalties are harsher than both monk flurry and rapid shot, but I felt it needed to be downgraded since it could be applied to all weapons. Perhaps I should flip it to a weapons mastery maneuver (with an Agility corequisite) and lower the penalty to -2. This would make it equivalent to both of the two, and limit it when you pick it to a single weapon group.

Ground Fighting

I think it is too much to cancel the Melee Defense Penalties as well as the Attack Penalties. It would be enough for it to cancel the Attack Penalties. It should also probably start at Agility Technique 4 for the sake of consistancy.

OK. Fair enough, I'd roll the defense penalties up into the Improved version.

Ground Fighting (Advanced) (Improved Ground Fighting?)

It seems too much to have a Level 3 Character suffer almost no penalties for being knocked down. I mean, apart from forcing a move action to get up, these guys are better at lying on the ground to fight than standing up (i.e. because they get +4 AC versus Missiles).

Very true on all counts. I'll rename to Improved, and bump it to level 7.

Lunge
A fairly solid Level 2 Ability. I wonder if it might have a place as a Tactical Manoeuvre, as well?

I had that thought as well. Not sure what prerequisites I'd use at this point, though.

Missile Evasion
This should probably start at the same Agility Technique Rank as Dodge . I am not sure whether I think it is too powerful or too weak. Essentially a Level 19 Character with +8 Dexterity could spend 14 Manoeuvres to triple his Dexterity Bonus against Ranged Attacks [i.e. +24]. Only the most tricked out of Characters is likely to take advantage of this possibility. I would be inclined to cap both at +4 and ignore any relation to Dexterity.

Yes, if I change Dodge, this one will automatically follow suit. 14 maneuvers is a lot, even for a warrior. It's every maneuver he gets from levels 1->7. Anyone who does this is going to suck, offense-wise. But I'll change Dodge, capping at +4 or +5 is reasonable, and this one will automatically follow.

Mobile Assault
I have to admit that I never really *got* the fluff around Skirmish. It's clearly geared towards ranged weapons and the [I]Many Shot / Greater Many Shot Ladder. In melee, I suppose it is a momentum based thing, but at range I just don't get how running and shooting arrows can ever result in a better shot or more damage. Other than just mimicking Skirmish, I haven't got much of an idea.

This one, in my head, was melee, not ranged at all. I viewed it as a momentum thing. A mechanic that matches what I have in my head is +1 on attack and damage rolls per 5' of movement in a straight line toward your opponent (so long as you use a move action to do so), but I feel it's just too cumbersome to track in play.

Mobile Defence

This always made slightly more sense to me, the idea that swift movement makes a combatant more difficult to hit. My suggestion is to have this start at Agility Technique 3 and increase by 1 for every 4 Agility Technique points above that [i.e. Levels 1, 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20]. The Amour Class Bonus would apply whenever a Move Action is used to Move [i.e. every 10']

That's reasonable, although I'd likely flip it to +3 for consistency (1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 19) - the extra +1 at 20th level isn't too, too much. I'll make the change.

Nick of Time
I think this could be considerably simplified if you just allowed 1 point of Active Defence Bonus to be regained against one attack per Agility Technique rank above 3, at the cost of 1 vitality point per Active Defence Point regained.

Ah, but I wanted it to be a risk; all or nothing. I'll think about this one for a bit.

Quick Strike
Complicated, but fun.

Yeah, I like it. It's feint with sleight of hand.

Quick Swap
I'm not convinced of the fluff (sounds like a recipe for dropping your weapon), but it seems mechanically sound.

Hmm... Maybe I should add some provision for that into the maneuver. Makes it a bit more risky.

Running Attack

You probably need to make it clear that these attacks are made at the Iterative Attack Bonus (that is, if they are); if not, this may be a bit too powerful, even as a Level 10 Manoeuvre. Also, I would have thought this ought to interact with Two Weapon Fighting in some way.

Yes, this is the intent. It's full attack + full move at the same time, so each attack is at your iterative attack bonus. TWF would, I suspect, allow you do potentially take a second swipe (with the off hand) at an opponent if you had one available. I'll clarify the text and add the TWF enhancement.

Side Step Charge
I think that I wouldn't allow this to be taken multiple times. Given all the other ways to enhance your Active Dodge Defense, once seems like enough. On the other hand, the number of Manoeuvres needed might self police this; once again, I would be wary of 'tricked out' abuses.

Again, you'd end up with the all defense, no offense problem. Perhaps it shouldn't be an iterative maneuver, though, and should be dependant on Dodge somehow.

Split Move
I never really understood why characters couldn't just do this by default. With that in mind, Level 4 seems a bit high.

It's meant to replace Spring Attack, Shot on the Run, and whatever the spell one is called. The feat prereqs put that chain at a stupid level, I thought level 4 was a reasonable downgrade, but level 3 is reasonable as well.

Steady Footing
Seems fair enough. Once again I would limit this by Climb or Balance ranks as well as Agility Technique Ranks, reduce the prerequisite to Agility Technique 4 and make it so it was per rank above 3.

Agreed, I'll make the change.

Whirlwind Attack
This always struck me as something that should expend vitality points. I would also make it an Agility Technique 9 Manoeuvre.

Now that I think about it, it probably should. My normal cost for "free attack" is 3 points, but this seems a bit much if I tally it per opponent. Maybe 5 or 10 for the whole maneuver?

General Notes

I think it is fairly clear that I am going to have to try building some characters after this initial survey to test some of my thoughts about how the system works.

Still, lots of good thoughts coming out of this. I'll update with the changes later today when I have time to do so.

Matthew

2007-02-02, 07:41 PM

CHANGING THE SYSTEM (an ongoing discussion)

Dodge, Parry and Block

Yeah, I got myself a bit confused thinking about how Two Weapon Fighting and Two Weapon Defence would interact with the mechanics of Parry and Block Feats. I think I have managed to solve that problem now.

POWER TECHNIQUE

Power Manoeuvres

Power Attack

I see, I hadn't grasped that aspect of the weapon descriptors.

AGILITY TECHNIQUE

Gateway Feats

Fast

Thinking about it, perhaps the gateway feats could be named Anatomical Combat Technique, Armoured Combat Technique, Conditioned Combat Technique, Power Combat Technique, Agile Combat Technique, Raging Combat Technique, Tactical Combat Technique, Unarmed Combat Technique and Master of Weapons Combat Technique (alt. Armed Combat Technique). This way it is immediately identifiable what they relate to and you are relieved of the need to come up with a new name for each.

Agility Manoeuvres

Advance

Actually, I was thinking more as an 'or' instead of an 'and' prerequisite. However, I do think that this Manoeuvre could be adapted to make a Power version, now that you mention it.

Decoy

Yeah, I understand what you are saying. I'm a bit of a fan of the 'Counter Attack' mechanic in combination with Attacks of Opportunity, but I forgot that your version of Dodge applies in general, instead of against a specific target. On the other hand, players are going to Elusive Target the hell out of this , but I guess that must be your intention.

Float Like a Butterfly

Yeah, that sounds balanced. You know what Sting Like a Bee should be, though? Lunge! It's perfect. You could even make it two seperate Manoeuvres - Lunge (Tactical) and Sting Like a Bee (Agility).

Flurry

Okay, I see now what's going on. I wouldn't be inclined to make this an amalgamation of Flurry and Rapid Shot. Keep Rapid Shot for the Weapon Mastery section or make it a seperate Manoeuvre. I wasn't suggesting Flurry should actually be Two Weapon Fighting, but rather mirror it. I still prefer this idea, as it seems perfectly balanced to me, but I can see why you might not.

Mobile Assault

Yeah, I considered that and then diregarded it for the same reason. Now that I think about it, though, why not simply make it when moving 10' or more and then link it into Agility Technique, so that AB and DB increase by 1 each at the same time AC does. That does mean +6 AB, +6 DB and +6 AC at level eighteen for an investment of one Feat, two Manoeuvres and 21 Skill Points and the potential to really make it great in combination with Running Attack and Two Weapon Fighting, but I think that is not undesirable. I need to build characters in order to really see the effect, but at this stage I am theoretically in favour of it.

Running Attack

A sound decision, I think.

Whirlwind Attack

Maybe just one Vitality Point per Attack?

RAGE TECHNIQUE

Special Rules

My goodness, this is so complicated looking. Okay, I have some serious revisions in mind for the mechanics of [I]Rage Technique. The idea is to make it simpler and associate a cost with the benefits.

Effects of Rage

So, it is possible for a Character to take 24 Points of Strength and Dexterity Damage? That seems excessive.

Maintaining Rage

To me, this is just too complicated. In my opinion, it would be much simpler to apply a Vitality Point cost to each Rage Manoeuvre. How many rounds is Rage going to be maintained in any given combat anyway? Not too many, I would be willing to bet. I see why you would want to implement this system, but it does strike me as too much.

Gateway Feats

Combat Fury

Seems straight forward enough. I would rename it Combat Rage or even just Rage in the context of the naming convention suggested above. I do think there should be some basic effect of raging, such as the normal +4 Strength and +4 Constitution.

Berserker

Mechanically fine, but I would rename this Raging Combat Technique (unless you wish to rename everything Fury, in which case Furious Combat Technique)

Other Feats

Extra Rage

Okay, so this is a Level 4 Ability that can be taken again at Level 8, 12, 16 and 20 making for a total of 6 Rages per day, as per the Barbarian Class. Seems fine to me. The only quibble I have is that other 'Extra' Class Feature emulations, such as Improved Sneak Attack are Manoeuvres rather than Feats. I think I want to see some consistancy with these 'basic' abilities and their improved versions.

Rage Manoeuvres

Furious Strike (Furious Blow(s)? Blows of Fury?)

Okay, so this Manoeuvre effectively doubles the benefits of Power Attack? Meaning for every 1 AB penalty a raging character takes he can potentially add 4 DB? Seems like a lot with few draw backs. My first suggestion is to bring the prerequisites for this Manoeuvre down to Rage 4, as since this relies on AB it might as well start at Level 1. Then, I would suggest limiting the effect by Rage Technique (i.e. no more than +1 DB per point of Rage Technique above 3) as well as Power Attack. Finally, I would suggest making it so that every point of increase costs 1 Vitality Point (i.e. So, a Level 1 Character using 1 point of Power Attack could spend 1 Vitality Point via Furious Strike to increase the Power Attack DB from 1 to 2, whilst a Level 20 Character using 20 points of Power Attack would need to spend 20 Vitality Points via Furious Strike to increase the Power Attack DB from 20 to 40). Obviously, the higher level the Character, the more useful this ability becomes, because of Iterative Attacks, if nothing else. You probably also ought to stipulate whether or not the raging character must match the Power Attack expenditure when using this Manoeuvre or not (I would be inclined to say he should, but I can see the reasoning for the opposite view).

Heedless Charge

This is another Manoeuvre I would suggest lowering the Rage Technique prerequisite to Rage 4, as it should also scale with Technique. My suggestion is to initially have it provide +1 AB, +1 DB and –1 AC at the cost of 1 Vitality Point. Then, for every 4 Rage Techniques above 3 (i.e. Levels 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20) another Vitality Point could be expended to increase the bonuses and penalties . Obviously, these bonuses would also apply to [I]Bull Rush and Over Run attempts.
I would also suggest that you might consider a rules change with regards to the Charging Action. Instead of it being a straight +2 AB for –2 AC, I have found making it +2 AB, +2 DB and –2 AC to be a good change.

Ignore Pain

This appears to be a modification of the Barbarian’s Damage Reduction Class Feature. I have to say, I think it is a bit deadly and not a whole lot of use in the context of 3.x. My first suggestion would be to make it a Rage 7 Manoeuvre and have it scale with Rage Technique, so that for every 4 Rage Technique Points above 3, it grants +1 Temporary DR/- and a +2 Saving Throw Bonus versus Pain Effects [i.e. at Levels 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20]. I am not clear how this operates with regard to Wound Points and penalties, but I guess that might make this a more powerful sounding ability. Of course, if you are down to Wound Points, your Rage is going to end rather soon.
If I were going to make a more potent version of this Manoeuvre, I would use the same prerequisites, but make the DR actual and require characters to purchase multiples of the Manoeuvre to gain the increased benefit.

Mad Froth (Berserker?)

This seems like a good trade off Manoeuvre. I would suggest making it so that what it allows is all Rage Manoeuvres to operate as though the character’s Rage Technique was 4 points higher.

Primal Scream (Battle Cry? Battle Scream? Rager’s / Rageful / Raging Scream?)

This Manoeuvre is a bit too powerful, I think. A Level 9 Character is going to provide a Difficulty Class of something like 20 (assuming Strength 18). Considering the Will Saves of most combat orientated Characters, there are going to be a high proportion of failures. Either the effects of failing the Saving Throw or the Difficulty Class needs to be toned down, or maybe both. I would suggest making the Difficulty Class [Rage Technique + Strength Bonus / Charisma Bonus –3] and lowering the prerequisite to Rage 4. The effects may still be too powerful, though. I think it might be better to make failure cause a character to be stunned for 1D4 (or perhaps the number he failed by) rounds unless he immediately flees. I would also suggest a Vitality Point cost of [Rage Technique –3, i.e. 1-20]; after all, at Level 20 a character will likely be producing a Difficulty Class of 30+, on account of Rage Strength and various Magical Enhancements.

Rage Endurance and Rage Strength

I want to put these two back together, but for a good reason. I think this should scale by level, as you are suggesting [i.e. a +2 Bonus and another +2 Bonus every four levels], but I suggest making it so that it costs 1 Vitality Point per +2 Bonus every Round to maintain the increase. Really, this could be folded into the Rage Feat. Anyway, it would work like this:

{table="head"] Level | Strength Increase | Constitution Increase | Vitality Point Cost
01-03 | +02 | +02 | 1
04-07 | +04 | +04 | 2
08-11 | +06 | +06 | 3
12-15 | +08 | +08 | 4
16-19 | +10 | +10 | 5
20+ | +12 | +12 | 6
[/table]

The Constitution increase would essentially regulate and lengthen the duration of the rage by level, as the benefit increases from +1 HP at Level 1 to +30 HP at Level 10 to +120 HP at Level 20. Essentially, the Constitution Bonus allows the Character to rage for 1 round per level.

Rage Mind (Blind Rage? Single Purpose? Fixed Purpose?)

Might as well make this Manoeuvre scale by level as well and allow it to start at Level 1 (Rage Technique 4) and have it scale by level and Rage Technique [i.e. Levels 1, 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20].

Rage Speed

Another Manoeuvre that ought to scale by level and Rage Technique [+5’ at Levels 1, 4, 8, 16 and 20]. I think it ought to cost Vitality Points and I’m thinking 5 per 5’ increase.

Rage Tirelessness (Tireless Rage?)

I am afraid I have no idea how the Iron Heroes Vitality Point Pool works, so I can’t say much about this Manoeuvre.

General Notes

There is a dichotomy inherent in these rules that I have begun to notice. Essentially, Manoeuvres are written one of two ways. They either automatically scale in conjunction with Technique increases or Technique increases are prerequisites for acquiring multiples of a single Manoeuvre. It is quite noticeable that all of the Rage Feats automatically scale with Rage Combat Technique increases. This makes it quite a small group, at 2 Gateway Feats, 5 Other Feats and 10 Manoeuvres or essentially over a quarter of all Feats and Manoeuvres available in a twenty level progression.
I do feel you need to come down on this one way or the other. I am increasingly seeing the Gateway Feats as redundant. It is very difficult to get access to more than one style the way things are currently set up. It seems to me that things would more smoothly if it took one Feat to get into a style and begin to access Manoeuvres, allowing for further Feats to enhance that style or access other styles.

Golthur

2007-02-03, 11:42 AM

I have a potential solution to one of the more vexing problems (the Anatomy Gateways). Let me know what you think, here's the summary in bullet form:

ANATOMY STYLE
Rename to Precision style.
Gateways are Weapon Finesse, unnamed-yet-possibly-generically-named gateway.
Sneak Attack, Nerve Strike moved to maneuvers within the style.
Move Breach Armour from Weapons Mastery to Precision style, but keep the piercing weapon use requirement.
Seems better to me, and there's less ambiguity on the maneuver-vs.-feat side with this tactic, as well.

Power Attack

I see, I hadn't grasped that aspect of the weapon descriptors.

That's probably because I didn't mention it until much later in the conversation. :smalltongue: I hoped I didn't need to post my entire weapons descriptor list to the thread as well.

Gateway Feats
Thinking about it, perhaps the gateway feats could be named Anatomical Combat Technique, Armoured Combat Technique, Conditioned Combat Technique, Power Combat Technique, Agile Combat Technique, Raging Combat Technique, Tactical Combat Technique, Unarmed Combat Technique and Master of Weapons Combat Technique (alt. Armed Combat Technique). This way it is immediately identifiable what they relate to and you are relieved of the need to come up with a new name for each.

Yes, I'm liking the generic solution more and more. They're pretty unimaginative feats, so unimaginative names seem to fit the bill.

Advance

Actually, I was thinking more as an 'or' instead of an 'and' prerequisite. However, I do think that this Manoeuvre could be adapted to make a Power version, now that you mention it.

As in ADVANCE [Tactical 6, Agility 6]? It makes it easier to acquire than Circle, but it is actually less useful in some ways, in that the target has more freedom of choice in his movement. Hmm. A Power variant would likely be a close variant of the unarmed Push maneuver, really.

Decoy
Yeah, I understand what you are saying. I'm a bit of a fan of the 'Counter Attack' mechanic in combination with Attacks of Opportunity, but I forgot that your version of Dodge applies in general, instead of against a specific target. On the other hand, players are going to Elusive Target the hell out of this , but I guess that must be your intention.

Yes, that is my intention, but I'm tempted to make the three-part combo drain even more vitality; that is, if you use Decoy with an Elusive Target'd Dodge, perhaps it drains x3 the normal cost instead of x2. I like giving the option, but I want it to be tiring to keep up for long.

Float Like a Butterfly

Yeah, that sounds balanced. You know what Sting Like a Bee should be, though? Lunge! It's perfect. You could even make it two seperate Manoeuvres - Lunge (Tactical) and Sting Like a Bee (Agility).

It's perfect! I'll make the change when I can sometime this weekend.

Flurry
Okay, I see now what's going on. I wouldn't be inclined to make this an amalgamation of Flurry and Rapid Shot. Keep Rapid Shot for the Weapon Mastery section or make it a seperate Manoeuvre. I wasn't suggesting Flurry should actually be Two Weapon Fighting, but rather mirror it. I still prefer this idea, as it seems perfectly balanced to me, but I can see why you might not.

My original thought was that they're both "getting an extra attack because you're fast", but I am leaning towards the Weapons Mastery solution - e.g. "getting an extra attack because you're skilled". So Flurry (Unarmed) would be equivalent to Flurry of Blows, and Flurry (Bow) or Flurry(Crossbow) would be Rapid Shot. This also reduces the value of the maneuver, since it only applies to a single weapon group when you get it.

Mobile Assault
Yeah, I considered that and then diregarded it for the same reason. Now that I think about it, though, why not simply make it when moving 10' or more and then link it into Agility Technique, so that AB and DB increase by 1 each at the same time AC does. That does mean +6 AB, +6 DB and +6 AC at level eighteen for an investment of one Feat, two Manoeuvres and 21 Skill Points and the potential to really make it great in combination with Running Attack and Two Weapon Fighting, but I think that is not undesirable. I need to build characters in order to really see the effect, but at this stage I am theoretically in favour of it.
Well, the point is to make a mobile fighter at least comparable to a stationary full-attacking fighter. It shouldn't be a losing solution automatically the way it is now. Maybe later this weekend I'll build up Mobile ManTM and see what it looks like.

Running Attack
A sound decision, I think.

TWF doesn't get enough love. I think the combination of running assault/mobile fighting, allowing a dual attack as a standard action, a lower feat requirement to use it (although in my system you still have to sink ranks into Technique (Dual)), x1.5 defense when fighting defensively (if you don't use your offhand attack), x2 for total defense, and the Parry maneuver, TWF should actually be a semi-viable option - and about halfway in between the full offense (THF) and full defense (SnB) options.

Whirlwind Attack

Maybe just one Vitality Point per Attack?

Yes, I'll give that a shot.

RAGE TECHNIQUE

Special Rules

My goodness, this is so complicated looking. Okay, I have some serious revisions in mind for the mechanics of [I]Rage Technique. The idea is to make it simpler and associate a cost with the benefits.
Yes, it's complex, and not at all tested or worked out thoroughly. I did say that at the beginning of the section, didn't I? :tongue:

My intent was that, while in rage, the warrior can use as many maneuvers (and as powerful as he likes), so long as he's willing to pay for it. Eventually, he'll run out of vitality, and he's done.

Effects of Rage

So, it is possible for a Character to take 24 Points of Strength and Dexterity Damage? That seems excessive.

No. Rage abilities only go up to "rank 6". Perhaps the terminology overlap is confusing. It's the numbers on the right-hand side of the tables - the ranks only go up to 6, so the drain is a maximum of 12.

Maintaining Rage

To me, this is just too complicated. In my opinion, it would be much simpler to apply a Vitality Point cost to each Rage Manoeuvre. How many rounds is Rage going to be maintained in any given combat anyway? Not too many, I would be willing to bet. I see why you would want to implement this system, but it does strike me as too much.

Yes, but I wanted high-level rage warriors to be able to get a +2 boost with no real effort. But, I'm interested in a better alternative.

Gateway Feats

Combat Fury

Seems straight forward enough. I would rename it Combat Rage or even just Rage in the context of the naming convention suggested above. I do think there should be some basic effect of raging, such as the normal +4 Strength and +4 Constitution.

Berserker

Mechanically fine, but I would rename this Raging Combat Technique (unless you wish to rename everything Fury, in which case Furious Combat Technique)

I wanted the rage guy to have to take maneuvers in order to get any significant benefits of rage, but the basic rage should do something. +4/+4 is too much, but I'll think about this one for a bit.

Other Feats

Extra Rage

Okay, so this is a Level 4 Ability that can be taken again at Level 8, 12, 16 and 20 making for a total of 6 Rages per day, as per the Barbarian Class. Seems fine to me. The only quibble I have is that other 'Extra' Class Feature emulations, such as Improved Sneak Attack are Manoeuvres rather than Feats. I think I want to see some consistancy with these 'basic' abilities and their improved versions.

You're right. It should be consistent. I'm not sure which way I want to go on this - I'd normally go pure maneuver, if not for Sneak Attack.

Glittersamas

2007-02-03, 01:50 PM

This looks very interesting.

ANATOMY OVERVIEW

...The anatomy style is probably the least-developed of all the styles, mostly because I have one huge glaring game-design issue. Although I want things like bleeding strikes and so on, I don't want to bypass the VP/WP system to do so. That is, unless you inflict wound damage these things shouldn't have much of an effect. This is the major kink in the works for these maneuvers - I'm not really starved for ideas, I'm starved for mechanics. Suggestions are more than welcome.

Are you married to the Wound/Vitality system? Perhaps you could use normal hit points and some techniques that cost vitality would do non-lethal damage instead?

Golthur

2007-02-03, 03:46 PM

This looks very interesting.

Are you married to the Wound/Vitality system? Perhaps you could use normal hit points and some techniques that cost vitality would do non-lethal damage instead?

For my own personal uses, yes, I am somewhat stuck on VP/WP. I just plain like it better, and it fixes numerous "warts" that I don't like about the HP system.

Of course, for your own use, switching it up that way would work fine. Eventually, if you used too many maneuvers (or got wounded more than your nonlethal threshold), you'd end up passing out in combat due to fatigue, more or less.

Golthur

2007-02-04, 12:00 AM

General Notes
There is a dichotomy inherent in these rules that I have begun to notice. Essentially, Manoeuvres are written one of two ways. They either automatically scale in conjunction with Technique increases or Technique increases are prerequisites for acquiring multiples of a single Manoeuvre. It is quite noticeable that all of the Rage Feats automatically scale with Rage Combat Technique increases. This makes it quite a small group, at 2 Gateway Feats, 5 Other Feats and 10 Manoeuvres or essentially over a quarter of all Feats and Manoeuvres available in a twenty level progression.
I do feel you need to come down on this one way or the other. I am increasingly seeing the Gateway Feats as redundant. It is very difficult to get access to more than one style the way things are currently set up. It seems to me that things would more smoothly if it took one Feat to get into a style and begin to access Manoeuvres, allowing for further Feats to enhance that style or access other styles.

I thought I'd address this comment first. In general, few maneuvers auto-scale. The ones that do autoscale are usually what I'd consider "fundamental to the style", and nearly all have a cost associated with scaling upward.

As an example of this type of maneuver, see Power Attack. It's more or less fundamental to the Power style. Likewise, there's a cost to the scaling (increased BAB penalties).

The ones I can think of that explicitly auto-scale are Power Attack(*), Guard(*), Mobile Assault/Defense (now), the Desperate Dodge use of Dodge(*), Feet of the Cat(*), Steady Footing(*), all Rage maneuvers(*), all Ki maneuvers (somewhat, only with Ki maneuvers, not ranks, and this may change), Draw a Bead(*) and the save DCs for maneuvers that permit a saving throw (currently only Nerve Strikes and Power Stun). Maneuvers marked with an asterisk have a cost for scaling. I feel the Ki maneuvers, once I get the +40 by level 20 problem under control, are reasonable because of the use of a somewhat non-renewable resource. My thoughts on Rage were similar - a somewhat non-renewable resource means increased power for the maneuver chains.

In general, I don't want too many maneuvers auto-scaling with ranks, because it makes the ranks too valuable in and of themselves. The practitioner of a style can purchase one or two maneuvers, and, as long as they keep maxing the skill, they gain increased benefits, leaving their maneuvers free for other things. I don't like this much :yuk:

You don't need two gateway feats to access the style at all. You can acquire maneuvers up to (level+3)/2, freely, with no feat investment. You need gateway feats to purchase maneuvers up to (level+3). Keep in mind, that under this system, fighters don't need their feats for other things, so it's possible to have several styles mastered even by 5th level (using an even progression, they've gotten 6 feats by then, 7 if they're human, not counting the starting package). The point of the feats, as I said, is to prevent non-warriors from getting these as class skills, and also to prevent warriors from cherry-picking through all the styles for the maneuvers they like. I am trying to lock a warrior into a handful styles until fairly high levels.
[hr]
Now, on to the Rage maneuvers...

You're right, Rage is a small group, and, as I said, not very thoroughly worked through. I was worried that it would be unbalanced as is, and even I'm not very happy with the mechanics of it. I think this would go better if I stated why I have it the way I do, and we can collectively come up with something better.
Multiple different types of rage, so that not all rage warriors are identical.
The duration of the rage is variable, not fixed. The rage warrior shouldn't know exactly how many rounds of rage he's got left in him.
I like the "chaos" aspect of the rage warrior being able to overstep his limits, at potentially great risk to himself. If he oversteps his limits, and the rage wears off prematurely, he's in trouble.
I wanted to make the rage costs lower if the rager spent time "stoking". Of course, he has to do this more or less in full view of his enemy, so he doesn't get much time to do it.

That being said, I agree that the current system suffers from some problems, and you've pretty much nailed them:
Cumbersome in play, what with the vitality costs and DCs together.
Relatively small maneuver investment for a lot of power.

So, I'm thinking almost the opposite of you, it seems - that I should change all of these maneuvers to require multiple selections to reach their full power. However, I'd like to keep the "reach beyond your power" aspect of them. Perhaps permit you to access the ability one step beyond yours at double cost, two steps beyond at quadruple cost, and so on? This keeps the costs low once you've purchased it at the appropriate rank.

So, suppose something like this:
{table="head"]Rage Level|Base Ranks|Vitality Cost
1|+0|1d4/r
2|+3|2d4/r
3|+6|3d4/r
4|+9|4d4/r
5|+12|5d4/r
6|+15|6d4/r
[/table]

Actual vitality costs are flexible, of course. I'm not sure I like a 2.5 average vitality cost per round for the 1st level guy. His rage will last mostly until he gets hit once.

Now, if you've purchased up to level 2, you could use level 3 (at a cost of 6d4/r) or level 4 (at a cost of 16d4/r), if you really, really, needed it.

Thoughts?

Furious Strike (Furious Blow(s)? Blows of Fury?)

Okay, so this Manoeuvre effectively doubles the benefits of Power Attack? Meaning for every 1 AB penalty a raging character takes he can potentially add 4 DB? Seems like a lot with few draw backs. My first suggestion is to bring the prerequisites for this Manoeuvre down to Rage 4, as since this relies on AB it might as well start at Level 1. Then, I would suggest limiting the effect by Rage Technique (i.e. no more than +1 DB per point of Rage Technique above 3) as well as Power Attack. Finally, I would suggest making it so that every point of increase costs 1 Vitality Point (i.e. So, a Level 1 Character using 1 point of Power Attack could spend 1 Vitality Point via Furious Strike to increase the Power Attack DB from 1 to 2, whilst a Level 20 Character using 20 points of Power Attack would need to spend 20 Vitality Points via Furious Strike to increase the Power Attack DB from 20 to 40). Obviously, the higher level the Character, the more useful this ability becomes, because of Iterative Attacks, if nothing else. You probably also ought to stipulate whether or not the raging character must match the Power Attack expenditure when using this Manoeuvre or not (I would be inclined to say he should, but I can see the reasoning for the opposite view).

Not double, but +1 per, so it ends up being a maximum of x3 with a two-handed power weapon, and only while raging. It would naturally end up capping at power attack, but you're right, it should probably go at the lower of the two since it's a hybrid technique.

As for flipping it to a matching-vitality-cost setup instead, that works for me. +1 vitality per +1 seems about right as well, considering it's only for a round. I'd agree that you'd have to match your power attack value; "control" isn't the hallmark of the rager.

This would then become another auto-scaler-with-cost.

Heedless Charge
This is another Manoeuvre I would suggest lowering the Rage Technique prerequisite to Rage 4, as it should also scale with Technique. My suggestion is to initially have it provide +1 AB, +1 DB and –1 AC at the cost of 1 Vitality Point. Then, for every 4 Rage Techniques above 3 (i.e. Levels 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20) another Vitality Point could be expended to increase the bonuses and penalties . Obviously, these bonuses would also apply to [I]Bull Rush and Over Run attempts.
I would also suggest that you might consider a rules change with regards to the Charging Action. Instead of it being a straight +2 AB for –2 AC, I have found making it +2 AB, +2 DB and –2 AC to be a good change.

I wouldn't make this one auto-scale. I'd keep it at a flat value, say +2/+2/-2 above a normal charge, and do the same if you take it again at +3 ranks. I'd also permit you to use "up to", and not have to use the whole value.

Ignore Pain
This appears to be a modification of the Barbarian’s Damage Reduction Class Feature. I have to say, I think it is a bit deadly and not a whole lot of use in the context of 3.x. My first suggestion would be to make it a Rage 7 Manoeuvre and have it scale with Rage Technique, so that for every 4 Rage Technique Points above 3, it grants +1 Temporary DR/- and a +2 Saving Throw Bonus versus Pain Effects [i.e. at Levels 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20]. I am not clear how this operates with regard to Wound Points and penalties, but I guess that might make this a more powerful sounding ability. Of course, if you are down to Wound Points, your Rage is going to end rather soon.
If I were going to make a more potent version of this Manoeuvre, I would use the same prerequisites, but make the DR actual and require characters to purchase multiples of the Manoeuvre to gain the increased benefit.

Yes, the presence of wound points makes it more valuable. It reduces the penalties you suffer for being wounded, but I haven't shown that here. Again, I'd probably make this one not auto-scale, with the potential exception of the "reaching beyond your power" thing I mentioned above. I wasn't entirely happy with the "no DR at low levels", but how about something like this:

{table="head"]Rage Level|DR|Save bonus
1|1/lethal|+2
2|2/lethal|+4
3|2/lethal and 1/-|+6
4|2/lethal and 2/-|+8
5|2/lethal and 3/-|+10
6|2/lethal and 4/-|+12[/table]

The save bonus also reduces your wounded penalties by an equal amount, which means that a person with +12 can fight when almost dead at almost no penalties.

Mad Froth (Berserker?)

This seems like a good trade off Manoeuvre. I would suggest making it so that what it allows is all Rage Manoeuvres to operate as though the character’s Rage Technique was 4 points higher.

With the setup I've got here, I'd do it at +6, so you basically get +2 rage levels "for free".

Primal Scream (Battle Cry? Battle Scream? Rager’s / Rageful / Raging Scream?)

This Manoeuvre is a bit too powerful, I think. A Level 9 Character is going to provide a Difficulty Class of something like 20 (assuming Strength 18). Considering the Will Saves of most combat orientated Characters, there are going to be a high proportion of failures. Either the effects of failing the Saving Throw or the Difficulty Class needs to be toned down, or maybe both. I would suggest making the Difficulty Class [Rage Technique + Strength Bonus / Charisma Bonus –3] and lowering the prerequisite to Rage 4. The effects may still be too powerful, though. I think it might be better to make failure cause a character to be stunned for 1D4 (or perhaps the number he failed by) rounds unless he immediately flees. I would also suggest a Vitality Point cost of [Rage Technique –3, i.e. 1-20]; after all, at Level 20 a character will likely be producing a Difficulty Class of 30+, on account of Rage Strength and various Magical Enhancements.

That's why I put in the option of an opposed BAB check :smallwink: The fighter types will likely take that option instead of the Will save.

But how about if I change the scale - If you make the save, you're fine. If you fail by 20 or more, you're panicked, 10 or more, frightened, otherwise, shaken. I like the stun-or-flee, though. That puts the choice in the player's hands - he can stay, and just let the guy walk all over him, or he can run away.

As for the vitality cost, you're right - this is an auto-scaling maneuver by its very nature, there should be a cost associated with the scaling. Making a scream cost 1 VP per rank even wouldn't be out of line, since the DC is set directly by ranks as well. That would also open up the option of using less vitality and making a less potent scream - e.g. save DC = 10 + (vitality spent)/2 + (Str or Cha modifier).

Rage Endurance and Rage Strength

I want to put these two back together, but for a good reason. I think this should scale by level, as you are suggesting [i.e. a +2 Bonus and another +2 Bonus every four levels], but I suggest making it so that it costs 1 Vitality Point per +2 Bonus every Round to maintain the increase. Really, this could be folded into the Rage Feat. Anyway, it would work like this:

{table="head"] Level | Strength Increase | Constitution Increase | Vitality Point Cost
01-03 | +02 | +02 | 1
04-07 | +04 | +04 | 2
08-11 | +06 | +06 | 3
12-15 | +08 | +08 | 4
16-19 | +10 | +10 | 5
20+ | +12 | +12 | 6
[/table]

The Constitution increase would essentially regulate and lengthen the duration of the rage by level, as the benefit increases from +1 HP at Level 1 to +30 HP at Level 10 to +120 HP at Level 20. Essentially, the Constitution Bonus allows the Character to rage for 1 round per level.

I'm actually more tempted to throw the Constitution increase into the "Ignore Pain" maneuver, and make the DR there real instead of virtual.

Again, I'm thinking about toning back the auto-scale, and permitting the "beyond your purchase" technique.

Rage Mind (Blind Rage? Single Purpose? Fixed Purpose?)

Might as well make this Manoeuvre scale by level as well and allow it to start at Level 1 (Rage Technique 4) and have it scale by level and Rage Technique [i.e. Levels 1, 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20].

And the same here, multiple purchases + "beyond your purchase".

Rage Speed

Another Manoeuvre that ought to scale by level and Rage Technique [+5’ at Levels 1, 4, 8, 16 and 20]. I think it ought to cost Vitality Points and I’m thinking 5 per 5’ increase.

I agree, it should cost vitality per round. My example 1d4/r figure would end up being about half your cost.

Rage Tirelessness (Tireless Rage?)

I am afraid I have no idea how the Iron Heroes Vitality Point Poll works, so I can’t say much about this Manoeuvre.

The gist of my setup is this - you start with WP (equal to your Constitution score), VP (equal to what would more or less be your normal HP), and a vitality pool (same size as your VP). Outside of combat, you can rapidly transfer VP from your pool to your current VP. This means that you can burn yourself out in one combat, rest for a bit, and be ready to go again without giving everyone fast healing or infinite HP. It's useful in Iron Heroes because there's no healing, I use the technique to regulate per-encounter output for warriors and mages, but to still let them have a few encounters worth of staying power.

This maneuver lets you transfer VP from your pool to your current VP in combat, essentially giving you a benefit in this combat at the expense of your future ones. Not sure how I'd do this in my proposed revision, though.

Matthew

2007-02-05, 06:07 PM

AGILE COMBAT STYLE

Gateway Feats

Combat Technique (Agile)

I like that Lightning Reflexes or Improved Initiative are prerequisites. However, I am now starting to wonder whether Fast would be better placed as a Manoeuvre.

Agile Manoeuvres

Flurry

Yeah, I am on board with dividing Flurry up and I can see why you combined it with Rapid Shot now (the character is fast).

Mobile Assault

Yeah, as I say, I do like this idea and how it interacts with Mobile Defence and Running Attack. I am starting to wonder whether it interacts with Flurry now, though; it would be very Jet Li like Kung Fu to have a character with Two Weapon Fighting, Flurry, Mobile Assault and Running Attack.

ARMOURED COMBAT STYLE

Gateway Feats

Combat Technique (Armoured)

CONDITIONED COMBAT STYLE

Gateway Feats

Combat Technique (Conditioned)

POWER COMBAT STYLE

Gateway Feats

Combat Technique (Power)

Power Manoeuvres

Power Attack

Okay, I am starting to wonder about this Feat and how much of it I have right. My understanding of Damage is that it is [Strength Bonus + Power Attack Bonus + Other Bonuses] x [Either: 0.5 (Light), 1.0 (One Handed), 1.5 (One Handed with Power Descriptor or Two Handed), 2.0 (Two Handed with Power Descriptor). I’m asking with regard to the Furious Strike Manoeuvre, as I was under the impression that it would add 0.5-2.0 Damage per Point of Furious Strike [i.e. 1 Point x 0.5-2.0 Points], which would make for a maximum of 4 Points of Damage in conjunction with Power Attack [i.e. (1+1) x2]

PRECISION COMBAT STYLE

Yes, I thoroughly agree with renaming this Combat Style Precision over Anatomical.

Gateway Feats

Weapon Finesse

An interesting choice of Feats, considering the varying power levels of the Gateway Feats available, still it probably is the most suitable.

Combat Technique (Precision)

This does seems to me to be the easiest way to name these Feats.

Precision Manoeuvres

Sneak Attack and Nerve Strike

Yes, I think these would do very well as Manoeuvres that can be taken multiple times under this system, rather than as Feats.

Breach Armour

Yeah, I am on board with this change.

RAGING COMBAT STYLE

Special Rules

Yeah, it’s quite obvious that Rage needs some serious work. I think you are right to use the multiple Manoeuvre system you are suggesting, rather than auto scaling. I have very much the same thing in mind for an alternate way of running the system.

Gateway Feats

Special Rules

Yeah, I’m definitely on board with dispensing with the DC checks. The random Vitality Point Cost isn’t to my taste, but since you do want the rage duration to be somewhat unpredictable, I think this is a suitable way to do it.

Combat Rage

Now that I have had some time to think about it, I am thinking that the number of times the Character can Rage might be determined by a fixed or sliding scale without the need for multiple Feats or Manoeuvres, such as by Level or a number of times equal to his Constitution Bonus.

Combat Technique (Raging)

Raging Manoeuvres

Rage Strength and Endurance

Yeah, a lot depends on how you want this to scale. I am thinking +2 / +2 per Manoeuvre and setting them at Levels 1, 6, 11 and 16. You could move Rage Endurance to Ignore Pain, as you say or you could put it back as it’s own Manoeuvre, a lot depends on what the benefits are and how many times it can be taken.

Furious Blow

I am not clear on how this is only x3. As I understand it the damage is [Strength + Power Attack + Furious Blow] x 0.5, 1.0, 1.5 or 2.0, depending on the Weapon being used.

Heedless Charge

Yeah, that might be a better choice.

Ignore Pain

Seems suitable.

Primal Scream

Oh yeah, I missed that who Base Attack Bonus thing. Seems like a good revision.

Tireless Rage

Okay, yeah, I’m not sure I fully understand, but I get the gist, I think.

TACTICAL COMBAT STYLE

Special Rules

Gateway Feats

Situational Awareness

I have to admit I would never ever take this Feat for a character if it was not a prerequisite for Combat Technique (Tactical). It’s certainly not overpowered, but I wonder whether, in light of your desire to level out Feats, it might not be better to simply make Guard [Combat Expertise] the prerequisite Gateway Feat? It would make sense in the context of the Manoeuvres that make up this style and the 13 Intelligence prerequisite would match it to Combat Technique (Tactical) perfectly.

Tactician [alt. Combat Technique (Tactical)]

Looks mechanically fine.

Other Feats

Tactical Advantage

I like this Feat, both flavour and mechanics. The only thing I would say is that this might be better as either a Prerequisite for Tactician or disassociated from Tactician altogether .

Tactical Manoeuvres

Advance

As I suggested in the Agile Combat Style section, it might be better if there were Tactical, Agile and Power versions of this Level Three Manoeuvre.

Broken Time

An interesting Manoeuvre. I am not sure it needs to be as high as Level Six, but I do not think it makes much difference either. The only thing I would point out is that characters can use the Delay Action already to act immediately before their opponents, which may make this Manoeuvre somewhat obsolete, depending on your point of view.

Canny Reflexes

I take it that as this intended to somewhat replace [I]Combat Reflexes that the normal situation is that a Character has a set number of Attacks of Opportunity per round? If that is the case, then I would advocate setting this at Tactical 4 or 6 and limiting the number of times this Manoeuvre can be used in a single round, perhaps to once per three Combat Technique (Tactical) Ranks above three or else simply once per three Ranks [i.e. either 1-6 or 1-7 times per round]. Alternatively, you could cap it in some other way [i.e. once every four, five or six Ranks].

Circle

A solid Manoeuvre.

Co-ordinated Assault

Another interesting Manoeuvre. Is there a cap for Swarming. Looking at this Feat, it seems like there is the potential for a total of a +7 Bonus to Attack through the use of seven multiples of this Feat. It would seem to me that allowing this Manoeuvre to be taken once at Rank 4 and again for every additional 5 Ranks [i.e. Levels 1, 6, 11 and 16] would give this a more reasonable cap.

Cunning Defence

I cannot see a lot of characters taking this Manoeuvre, but it seems solid enough; you might consider making it a +4 Insight Bonus and multiples available every 5 Ranks above 3 [i.e. Levels 1, 5, 10, 15 and 20], which would cap the Manoeuvre at +20.

Extended Guard

The name of this Manoeuvre is likely to be confused with the Guard Manoeuvre, even though it is mechanically separate. Extended Threat either needs to be rename something like Extended Threat or Guard needs to be renamed something like Combat Defence, Skilled Defence or Expert Defence. Mechanically, this is quite powerful; it ends the annoying reign of Glaives and Spiked Armour well enough, though.

Feint (Improved Feint?)

I wouldn’t agree that it is more difficult to feint with a Great Sword than with a Short Sword. That aside, I think it would be considerably simpler to follow through with your plan to restrict this Manoeuvre to Finesse Weapons, if you are going to restrict by weapon. Alternatively, you could make it so that the more Combat Technique (Tactical) Ranks a character has the heavier the weapon he can use in a feint or else by way of a sequence of Improved, Greater and Perfect Feint Manoeuvres. Quick Feint seems solid. Lightning Feint is a bit odd, since attacks have to take place from highest Base Attack Bonus to lowest; I would suggest making this a Free Action, but only as part of a Full Attack.

Guard (Combat Defence?)

Be aware that Dungeons & Dragons usually allows Combat Expertise to stack with the Armour Class Bonuses from Fighting Defensively and Full Defence. Okay, so Guard and Power Attack as presented range from +1 to +11 and are restricted by Technique Ranks. I have to say I find this a bit clunky. Personally, I would have it as 1 per Rank above 3, but if you want to keep this down to about half, then consider making Guard a Rank 3 or 5 Manoeuvre that allows you to trade 1 AB for every 2 Ranks above 3 .
With regard to varying by Weapon, my suggestion would be to allow Weapons with the Parry Descriptor to yield 1.5 AC for every 1 AB traded, but only when held either in the Off Hand or Two Handed. I would also allow Shields to yield 2 AC for every 1 AB traded, as these should certainly be better than Parrying Weapons. Furthermore, I would suggest having Unarmed Characters receive only 0.5 AC for every 1 AB traded. You could also have these multipliers apply to Fighting Defensively and Full Defence [i.e. 1, 2, 3, 4 and 2, 4, 6 8, respectively].

Kick ‘em When Their Down

Not the clearest of Manoeuvre descriptions, but I think I get the gist of it. Seems like a reasonable Level 4 Manoeuvre.

Path Finding

This is a good Manoeuvre, but I think you need to set a Speed limit; nobody should be able to reduce the cost to 1 and then run or charge 150’+ through the terrain (unless that is what you want). Why are the VP penalties so steep [i.e. why 1, 3 and 6 etc. instead of 1, 2 and 3]? I have to say I would prefer a uniform progression [i.e. 1, 2, 3 or 2, 4, 6, etc.]. I am not too sure how likely it is a Character is to take this Manoeuvre multiple times, but it does a reasonably good job of mimicking the Woodland Stride of the Druid and Ranger Characters. It does seem somewhat out of place as a Tactical Manoeuvre and is much less powerful than said Extraordinary Ability, but I suppose that it has to go somewhere and you intended for it to be less powerful.

Press Advantage

This should almost certainly be a Tactical 9 or 14 Manoeuvre [i.e. Levels 6 or 11] in order for it to be really useful. I think mechanically it is quite interesting, but might benefit from a ‘for every five points his AB exceeds the target’s AC the character gains +1 AB on his next attack, limited by Combat Technique (Tactical) [i.e. 9 Ranks = +1, 12 Ranks = +2, 15 Ranks = +3, 18 Ranks = +4, 21 Ranks = +5 or something like that]. It might also be worth making this work from round to round, so that if the last attack of one round and provide a bonus to the first attack of the round that follows.

Rally

This seems too powerful, as a Character with Combat Technique (Tactical) 22 and a Charisma of 24 could potentially grant +7 AB to all allies within 60’ of them, with no other cost than 7 of 40 Manoeuvres. Best to cap this at +4, in my opinion, and allow it to be taken once for every 5 ranks above 4 [i.e. Levels 1, 6, 11 and 16]. Consider making the ability more potent, granting +1 AB, +1 DB and +1 Willpower Save.

Side Step (alt. Follow Up)

A solid Manoeuvre. It should almost certainly be Combat Technique (Agile 4), though, since this is a Level 5 Manoeuvre that requires Combat Technique (Tactical 8) [i.e. half the Ranks].

Size Matters Not

A solid Manoeuvre, but do you really want Characters to potentially gain +8 AB and +8 AC against Large Creatures? As with [I]Co-ordinated Assault and Rally, I strongly recommend making this 1 for every 5 Ranks above 4 [i.e. Ranks 4, 9, 14 and 19 or Levels 1, 6, 11 and 16]. You could make it more potent, granting +1 AB, +1 DB and +1 AC, if you felt it warranted it (I probably would).

Teamwork

A very potentially powerful ability this, but also flavoursome. I would make it a Combat Technique (Tactical) 14 [i.e. Level 11] Manoeuvre.

Utilise Environment

A good idea this. Not sure about the execution. Cover in 3.x has gotten itself a bit confused to begin with, so exactly how this operates is going to depend on exactly how you are utilising those rules. The thing to remember is that cover generally grants +2 Armour Class and +1 Reflex Saving Throws. If you want to allow Cover that grants +8 Armour Class to potentially grant +16 Armour Class through multiple applications of this Manoeuvre. Personally, I think that is a bit much. Perhaps it might be best to make it a single Manoeuvre that grants +2 Armour Class and +1 Reflex Saving Throw whenever the character is granted cover and +4 Armour Class and +2 Reflex Saving Throw (or perhaps Total Cover) whenever the character is granted double cover, so long as he is aware of the attacker.

GENERAL NOTES

I am very much in favour of making the system reliant on Manoeuvres taht stack to gain the next power level and, for what it’s worth, I advocate a standard process of Level 1, Level 6, Level 11 and Level 16 iterations (i.e. X, Improved X, Greater X and Perfect X). I am even in favour of making this process apply to most other ‘auto scaling Feats’, but unfortunately the way they are currently set up might make doing so somewhat difficult.

Yes, you caught me out. I forgot that you could access Feats at Half Ranks; really, this is an even better reason to have the X, Improved X, Greater X and Perfect X organisation, as it keeps such purchasers to X and Improved X Manoeuvres.

I do think you really have to think about the number of Feats and Manoeuvres available to a character, though, and somewhat with regard to ‘Feats not appearing here’, such as Skill Focus and such. Is it possible for characters to purchase additional Skill Points by means of Feats? It is in conventional Dungeons & Dragons, after all, so I wouldn’t be surprised to fin it here as well.

Golthur

2007-02-06, 11:50 AM

First things first, I've made the following changes:
The Anatomy style has been changed to Precision style. Breach Armour maneuver has been moved to the Precision style.
Nerve Strike has a (tentative) rewrite as a maneuver, hopefully toning it back a bit, as it now has "infinite" use (with a VP cost). VP cost is proportional to the save DC - this is likely the sort of thing I'll want to use for everything that has a save DC set by ranks.
Whirlwind Attack now costs 1 VP/attack made.
Gateway feats for most styles (except Weapons Mastery at this point) have been renamed to be generic.
Elusive Target now has increased vitality cost if you use it to use the Decoy maneuver at the same time.
"Sting Like a Bee" now in Agility, Lunge moved to Tactical. I'm tempted to modify Sting Like a Bee to make it a bit different.

I like that Lightning Reflexes or Improved Initiative are prerequisites. However, I am now starting to wonder whether Fast would be better placed as a Manoeuvre.

I like it as a potential gateway, personally. I also like making it easily available to mage-types and rogue-types.

Flurry

Yeah, I am on board with dividing Flurry up and I can see why you combined it with Rapid Shot now (the character is fast).

I'm going to move it to a Weapons Mastery maneuver, so it limits it to one weapon group, and roll the penalty back to -2.

Mobile Assault
Yeah, as I say, I do like this idea and how it interacts with Mobile Defence and Running Attack. I am starting to wonder whether it interacts with Flurry now, though; it would be very Jet Li like Kung Fu to have a character with Two Weapon Fighting, Flurry, Mobile Assault and Running Attack.

Well, let's see. He'd get full BAB (although only one at each foe), with a decent + to hit and damage. If he maxed out his Extra Off-Hand Strike maneuvers as well, he'd get an extra off-hand attack at each. All attacks would be at -2 because of the TWF, but, supposing something like a 14th level guy, BAB, +14/+9/+4, with Weapon Finesse, DEX 17, you'd end up with:

Parentheses indicate attacks at a single foe in the Running Assault setups.

Full Attack (no TWF): +17/+12/+7
Running Assault (with TWF and full OHS): (+15/+15)/(+10/+10)/+5
Running Assault (with proposed Flurry): (+13/+13)/+13/(+8/+8)/+3

Mobile Assault would add +5, if it increased at the same rate as Mobile Defense, yielding (+18/+18)/+18/(+13/+13)/+3. Better than the full attack, but restricted by the fact that you have to attack different foes with each sub-sequence.

This assumes maxed out Technique (Agility), and Technique (Dual). Flurry would also require Weapons Mastery in the mix.

Power Attack

Okay, I am starting to wonder about this Feat and how much of it I have right. My understanding of Damage is that it is [Strength Bonus + Power Attack Bonus + Other Bonuses] x [Either: 0.5 (Light), 1.0 (One Handed), 1.5 (One Handed with Power Descriptor or Two Handed), 2.0 (Two Handed with Power Descriptor). I’m asking with regard to the Furious Strike Manoeuvre, as I was under the impression that it would add 0.5-2.0 Damage per Point of Furious Strike [i.e. 1 Point x 0.5-2.0 Points], which would make for a maximum of 4 Points of Damage in conjunction with Power Attack

You know. You're right, that's what it says. It's not what I meant, though. You should read my mind! :tongue:

I'll fix the text. x4 is way, way more than I want it to be.

Weapon Finesse

An interesting choice of Feats, considering the varying power levels of the Gateway Feats available, still it probably is the most suitable.

Seems the most suitable to me, of the lot.

Sneak Attack and Nerve Strike

Yes, I think these would do very well as Manoeuvres that can be taken multiple times under this system, rather than as Feats.

Breach Armour

Yeah, I am on board with this change.

Done, except for Sneak Attack. I'm still trying to figure out how to make it more accessible to rogue-types than warrior-types as a Precision maneuver.

RAGING COMBAT STYLE

Special Rules

Yeah, it’s quite obvious that Rage needs some serious work. I think you are right to use the multiple Manoeuvre system you are suggesting, rather than auto scaling. I have very much the same thing in mind for an alternate way of running the system.

I'll revise the whole thing to my proposed new setup as soon as I can.

Special Rules

Yeah, I’m definitely on board with dispensing with the DC checks. The random Vitality Point Cost isn’t to my taste, but since you do want the rage duration to be somewhat unpredictable, I think this is a suitable way to do it.

The only thing that's missing at this point from my brain is making it easier if you stoke. Perhaps I can do something like reduce the VP loss by one per die or something similar. I don't have much leeway here, though.

Combat Rage

Now that I have had some time to think about it, I am thinking that the number of times the Character can Rage might be determined by a fixed or sliding scale without the need for multiple Feats or Manoeuvres, such as by Level or a number of times equal to his Constitution Bonus.

Well, the once per day and feat expansion were meant to balance out what I considered a very powerful style; by essentially denying access to other styles at the same time. Weaning it back means that it doesn't have to have such a strict usage cap.

Rage Strength and Endurance

Yeah, a lot depends on how you want this to scale. I am thinking +2 / +2 per Manoeuvre and setting them at Levels 1, 6, 11 and 16. You could move Rage Endurance to Ignore Pain, as you say or you could put it back as it’s own Manoeuvre, a lot depends on what the benefits are and how many times it can be taken.

Getting a +6 bonus to a roll isn't outlandish at 20th level, so I'm thinking an advancement structure like this:

{table="head"]Min Rank|Ability Bonus
base+0|+2
base+4|+4
base+8|+6
base+12|+8
base+16|+10
base+20|+12
[/table]

If I move the base to 3 for the easy maneuvers, this caps it at +12 at level 20.

Furious Blow

I am not clear on how this is only x3. As I understand it the damage is [Strength + Power Attack + Furious Blow] x 0.5, 1.0, 1.5 or 2.0, depending on the Weapon being used.

You're right, it's x4 as written. Changing the bonus type is probably the easiest answer here.

Heedless Charge

Yeah, that might be a better choice.

Ignore Pain

Seems suitable.

Primal Scream

Oh yeah, I missed that who Base Attack Bonus thing. Seems like a good revision.

I'll make all of these changes in the next batch of revisions.

Situational Awareness

I have to admit I would never ever take this Feat for a character if it was not a prerequisite for [I]Combat Technique (Tactical). It’s certainly not overpowered, but I wonder whether, in light of your desire to level out Feats, it might not be better to simply make Guard [Combat Expertise] the prerequisite Gateway Feat? It would make sense in the context of the Manoeuvres that make up this style and the 13 Intelligence prerequisite would match it to Combat Technique (Tactical) perfectly.

Somewhat, but a part of me likes keeping it as a maneuver. It's pretty useless, yes. I can change the gateway, though. Perhaps something along the lines of Tactical Advantage, or the duelist's Canny Defense class feature?

Tactical Advantage

I like this Feat, both flavour and mechanics. The only thing I would say is that this might be better as either a Prerequisite for Tactician or disassociated from Tactician altogether .

Yeah, I can move it around as the prerequisite. That will probably work better.

Advance
As I suggested in the Agile Combat Style section, it might be better if there were Tactical, Agile and Power versions of this Level Three Manoeuvre.

Yes, I'll add them, although I haven't decided on the mechanics for the Power version, and, if I made a pure Tactical version, I wouldn't use a mobility check either - it would be some sort of Intelligence-based-Bluff or something.

Broken Time

An interesting Manoeuvre. I am not sure it needs to be as high as Level Six, but I do not think it makes much difference either. The only thing I would point out is that characters can use the Delay Action already to act immediately before their opponents, which may make this Manoeuvre somewhat obsolete, depending on your point of view.
True, they can delay their action to go before their foe, but then they lose a round of action. There's no sacrifice here - only full attacking your foe.

Canny Reflexes

I take it that as this intended to somewhat replace [I]Combat Reflexes that the normal situation is that a Character has a set number of Attacks of Opportunity per round? If that is the case, then I would advocate setting this at Tactical 4 or 6 and limiting the number of times this Manoeuvre can be used in a single round, perhaps to once per three Combat Technique (Tactical) Ranks above three or else simply once per three Ranks [i.e. either 1-6 or 1-7 times per round]. Alternatively, you could cap it in some other way [i.e. once every four, five or six Ranks].

Yes, that's the idea. I'll add a cap. Too many AoOs strains my "verisimilitude".

Co-ordinated Assault

Another interesting Manoeuvre. Is there a cap for Swarming. Looking at this Feat, it seems like there is the potential for a total of a +7 Bonus to Attack through the use of seven multiples of this Feat. It would seem to me that allowing this Manoeuvre to be taken once at Rank 4 and again for every additional 5 Ranks [i.e. Levels 1, 6, 11 and 16] would give this a more reasonable cap.

As I originally planned, the natural cap would normally be how many foes can attack you simultaneously (less one). However, I'm not sure that this maneuver should be bound by that cap. I'm thinking more and more to change my standard progression to 1/4 ranks instead of 1/3 ranks, and starting at rank 3 for most things, so ranks 3, 7, 11, 15, 19, 23, for levels 1, 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20, respectively. This caps most things at +6 at level 20.

Cunning Defence

I cannot see a lot of characters taking this Manoeuvre, but it seems solid enough; you might consider making it a +4 Insight Bonus and multiples available every 5 Ranks above 3 [i.e. Levels 1, 5, 10, 15 and 20], which would cap the Manoeuvre at +20.

Seems a decent enough revision. I didn't think it was that good, as is. Boosting the bonus might make it more valuable. I'll add it in the next bout of changes.

Extended Guard

The name of this Manoeuvre is likely to be confused with the Guard Manoeuvre, even though it is mechanically separate. Extended Threat either needs to be rename something like Extended Threat or Guard needs to be renamed something like Combat Defence, Skilled Defence or Expert Defence. Mechanically, this is quite powerful; it ends the annoying reign of Glaives and Spiked Armour well enough, though.

You're right, it needs a name change. I don't let Spiked Armour threaten within 5', so I never had that problem :smile: But, yes, it's meant to deal with things with reach. I should add an automatic "lose the stance" thing here, though, such as attacking something within 5', or moving, or both.

Feint (Improved Feint?)

I wouldn’t agree that it is more difficult to feint with a Great Sword than with a Short Sword. That aside, I think it would be considerably simpler to follow through with your plan to restrict this Manoeuvre to Finesse Weapons, if you are going to restrict by weapon. Alternatively, you could make it so that the more Combat Technique (Tactical) Ranks a character has the heavier the weapon he can use in a feint or else by way of a sequence of Improved, Greater and Perfect Feint Manoeuvres. Quick Feint seems solid. Lightning Feint is a bit odd, since attacks have to take place from highest Base Attack Bonus to lowest; I would suggest making this a Free Action, but only as part of a Full Attack.

My goal was to have it more with light, finessable weapons, but I didn't see why you couldn't feint with a greatsword, either. I wanted to discourage that use, though, so, thus the penalty. Perhaps taking the maneuver multiple times in succession would permit slower/heavier weapons; e.g. once, fast; twice, average; thrice, slow; and so on.

I see what you mean about the Lightning Feint, but I did want him to lose an attack. It's an interesting problem. Perhaps I can rewrite it as a full round action to permit them to sacrifice any attack they like out of their sequence for the feint.

Guard (Combat Defence?)

Be aware that Dungeons & Dragons usually allows Combat Expertise to stack with the Armour Class Bonuses from Fighting Defensively and Full Defence.

I know, I've changed that mechanic in my house rules by limiting how many dodge bonuses you can get if you wear armour. The bonuses still stack, but they're limited by armour worn. This makes competence and style bonuses more valuable. It also makes maneuvers that represent "training to use your armour better" as easy as flipping bonus types.

Okay, so Guard and Power Attack as presented range from +1 to +11 and are restricted by Technique Ranks. I have to say I find this a bit clunky. Personally, I would have it as 1 per Rank above 3, but if you want to keep this down to about half, then consider making Guard a Rank 3 or 5 Manoeuvre that allows you to trade 1 AB for every 2 Ranks above 3 .

I'll have to think about this one. I'm seriously considering globally changing the scale from 1/3 to 1/4. That would no doubt affect this as well.

With regard to varying by Weapon, my suggestion would be to allow Weapons with the Parry Descriptor to yield 1.5 AC for every 1 AB traded, but only when held either in the Off Hand or Two Handed. I would also allow Shields to yield 2 AC for every 1 AB traded, as these should certainly be better than Parrying Weapons. Furthermore, I would suggest having Unarmed Characters receive only 0.5 AC for every 1 AB traded. You could also have these multipliers apply to Fighting Defensively and Full Defence [i.e. 1, 2, 3, 4 and 2, 4, 6 8, respectively].

Reasonable changes, all, and I do have the same multipliers apply to both fighting defensively and total defense.

Kick ‘em When Their Down

Not the clearest of Manoeuvre descriptions, but I think I get the gist of it. Seems like a reasonable Level 4 Manoeuvre.

Yeah, this one's just for fun. My players like this sort of thing.

Path Finding

This is a good Manoeuvre, but I think you need to set a Speed limit; nobody should be able to reduce the cost to 1 and then run or charge 150’+ through the terrain (unless that is what you want). Why are the VP penalties so steep [i.e. why 1, 3 and 6 etc. instead of 1, 2 and 3]? I have to say I would prefer a uniform progression [i.e. 1, 2, 3 or 2, 4, 6, etc.]. I am not too sure how likely it is a Character is to take this Manoeuvre multiple times, but it does a reasonably good job of mimicking the Woodland Stride of the Druid and Ranger Characters. It does seem somewhat out of place as a Tactical Manoeuvre and is much less powerful than said Extraordinary Ability, but I suppose that it has to go somewhere and you intended for it to be less powerful.
Agreed on the speed limit, it should be limited to x1 speed. I'll add it. I made the penalties steeper with progressive increases because it's much, much more tiring to move at full speed over a slippery rock pile than over a slightly slippery smooth floor. It's very nonlinear. This, I know from personal experience. Also, from a game balance perspective, I did want to be able to still throw terrain-based obstacles at someone with this maneuver, even if they took it three times. I intended this maneuver as part of the "using the terrain to your advantage" sub-section of Tactical maneuvers.

Press Advantage

This should almost certainly be a Tactical 9 or 14 Manoeuvre [i.e. Levels 6 or 11] in order for it to be really useful. I think mechanically it is quite interesting, but might benefit from a ‘for every five points his AB exceeds the target’s AC the character gains +1 AB on his next attack, limited by Combat Technique (Tactical) [i.e. 9 Ranks = +1, 12 Ranks = +2, 15 Ranks = +3, 18 Ranks = +4, 21 Ranks = +5 or something like that]. It might also be worth making this work from round to round, so that if the last attack of one round and provide a bonus to the first attack of the round that follows.

Interesting. I'll work on a revision.

Rally

This seems too powerful, as a Character with Combat Technique (Tactical) 22 and a Charisma of 24 could potentially grant +7 AB to all allies within 60’ of them, with no other cost than 7 of 40 Manoeuvres. Best to cap this at +4, in my opinion, and allow it to be taken once for every 5 ranks above 4 [i.e. Levels 1, 6, 11 and 16]. Consider making the ability more potent, granting +1 AB, +1 DB and +1 Willpower Save.

Well, if I change the scale to 1/4, as I'm thinking, this would cap it at +6, with Charisma 22 at level 20. Adding a damage bonus makes it more valuable, which I don't mind. I'm all for giving mechanical benefits to Charisma, as my group tends to dump it.

Side Step (alt. Follow Up)

A solid Manoeuvre. It should almost certainly be Combat Technique (Agile 4), though, since this is a Level 5 Manoeuvre that requires Combat Technique (Tactical 8) [i.e. half the Ranks].

Agreed. Done.

Size Matters Not

A solid Manoeuvre, but do you really want Characters to potentially gain +8 AB and +8 AC against Large Creatures? As with [I]Co-ordinated Assault and Rally, I strongly recommend making this 1 for every 5 Ranks above 4 [i.e. Ranks 4, 9, 14 and 19 or Levels 1, 6, 11 and 16]. You could make it more potent, granting +1 AB, +1 DB and +1 AC, if you felt it warranted it (I probably would).

Let's see. As written, you could take it at ranks 2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, 21, for a total of +7 by 20th level, not +8, but, yes, it's likely a bit much. Again, if I switch it to 1/4, and start at rank 3, this would limit it to +6.

Teamwork

A very potentially powerful ability this, but also flavoursome. I would make it a Combat Technique (Tactical) 14 [i.e. Level 11] Manoeuvre.

Agreed.

Utilise Environment

A good idea this. Not sure about the execution. Cover in 3.x has gotten itself a bit confused to begin with, so exactly how this operates is going to depend on exactly how you are utilising those rules. The thing to remember is that cover generally grants +2 Armour Class and +1 Reflex Saving Throws. If you want to allow Cover that grants +8 Armour Class to potentially grant +16 Armour Class through multiple applications of this Manoeuvre. Personally, I think that is a bit much. Perhaps it might be best to make it a single Manoeuvre that grants +2 Armour Class and +1 Reflex Saving Throw whenever the character is granted cover and +4 Armour Class and +2 Reflex Saving Throw (or perhaps Total Cover) whenever the character is granted double cover, so long as he is aware of the attacker.

That works, although I'm using variable cover, so that's a bit of an issue.
Perhaps I should restrict to half again the cover bonus If I use four degrees of cover at +2/+4/+6/+8; so you'd get (with maximum use of the maneuver) +3/+6/+9/+12, respectively.

GENERAL NOTES

I am very much in favour of making the system reliant on Manoeuvres taht stack to gain the next power level and, for what it’s worth, I advocate a standard process of Level 1, Level 6, Level 11 and Level 16 iterations (i.e. X, Improved X, Greater X and Perfect X). I am even in favour of making this process apply to most other ‘auto scaling Feats’, but unfortunately the way they are currently set up might make doing so somewhat difficult.

That was the original goal for most things - and having more maneuvers available per character level makes this viable. Changing the general scale to 1/4 seems like a decent change, and I now potentially have a mechanic for the scaling save DC problem as well.

Still need to figure out something for the Ki maneuvers, though. The problem here is that I have two factors, potency and duration. I suppose I could change one of them to be automatically set by an ability score.

Yes, you caught me out. I forgot that you could access Feats at Half Ranks; really, this is an even better reason to have the X, Improved X, Greater X and Perfect X organisation, as it keeps such purchasers to X and Improved X Manoeuvres.

With 1/4 at 3, 7, 11, 15, 19, 23, this would limit half-rank purchasers to +3. It's somewhat sucky for 20th level, but that's what they get for not spending feats. :amused:

[QUOTE=Matthew;1961444] I do think you really have to think about the number of Feats and Manoeuvres available to a character, though, and somewhat with regard to ‘Feats not appearing here’, such as Skill Focus and such. Is it possible for characters to purchase additional Skill Points by means of Feats? It is in conventional Dungeons & Dragons, after all, so I wouldn’t be surprised to fin it here as well.

Ah, I have, actually. I don't allow Skill Focus on Technique skills, but even so, Skill Focus would only affect actual Technique checks, which are few and far between. I've changed Open Minded to be a four-part feat. If taken as a General feat, you can spend the points on anything you like. If taken as a Magic bonus feat, you can only spend them on magic skills. If taken as a Combat bonus feat, you can only spend them on Technique skills, and so on. It does permit them to pump a style by burning combat feats, but that delays entry into other styles. They're still limited by their rank caps, as well.

Any implications I'm not seeing?

Matthew

2007-03-07, 05:43 PM

Hey Golthur, sorry about the long delay between postings.

I agree with the changes you have made. I have a couple of quibbles, but they are probably just preferential.

UNARMED COMBAT STYLE

Special Rules

Unarmed Attack Forms

I can see why you might wish to go into so much detail with regard to method of attack, but I do think that it is a needless level of complication. Head Butts, Punches and Kicks don’t really need any additional distinction rules. I recommend keeping such distinctions as an ‘optional rule’ and try this system without them first.
When you discuss the effects of Metal Gauntlets, Brass Knuckles or Cesti, you mention that this grants a +2 Bonus to Punch Damage. This leaves me a little confused. Is there no Non Lethal Damage? In conventional Dungeons & Dragons these items allow a Character to inflict Lethal Damage without the Improved Unarmed Strike Feat or –4 Penalty to change Damage Type. If all Unarmed Damage is lethal, then I think that the Damage Dice chart is a little much, especially when considering how this would pan out when running Boxing Matches (it does seem that Unarmed Damage is Non Lethal, but just in case).

The way I currently do it is by fixed damage. Medium Characters do 0 Damage (minimum 1) and every size category in either direction increases or decreases the damage by 1, so that a Large Creature does [1 + Strength Bonus] Damage. Metal Gauntlets and such, add 1, whilst Boxing Gloves and such, reduce the damage by 1 or more.

Grappling

I quite like the idea of attempting to grapple different areas and apply moves, rather than a generic grapple check. However, I am not sure why you are imposing such a complex system of modifiers. Also, you do not seem to indicate whether starting a grapple is a Touch Attack or not (I assume it is). I suspect that a generic –4 penalty to grab a limb or head, rather than a torso, would be sufficient. Size adjustments to Armour Class already account for differently sized limbs.
You might need to take into account the difficulty of grabbing a limb that is behind a Shield. Unlike the current rules, I do feel that a Shield should play a part in deflecting grapple attempts, unless the Shield is the target of the grapple.
I think it could be argued both ways in terms of verisimilitude, but for the sake of simplicity I would suggest that during the manipulation phase size modifiers should apply when using Strength or Dexterity, rather than just when using Strength. For Escape Checks and Stability Checks, I suggest applying the size modifiers to both Strength and Dexterity checks as well. Presumably, these checks must exceed the opponent’s manipulation check? Otherwise, there is no indication as to what happens in the case of a draw.
I agree with the idea of maintaining a hold automatically from round to round, but I think you might need to be careful about the automatically inflicted damage. It seems okay to me, but it sounds like an avenue for potential abuse.
With regards to breaking a hold, what is the difficulty? Presumably, it is the original attack roll? If so, the attacker should be allowed a chance to reroll. I think if the escape check succeeds, the attacker should immediately be allowed to reroll his hold attempt to resist the break, since he might potentially have originally succeeded on a very low roll indeed.
Breaking a hold by striking the opponent opens up a whole new area of the grappling rules. For me, the principle purpose of grappling in lethal combat is to prevent an opponent from striking you and at the same time make it easier to strike your opponent. I have never thought the current rules were much good for this. A Fortitude Saving Throw doesn’t seem to me to be the best way to handle this. I think a successful attack should simply result in an Escape or Stability Check (perhaps one that forces the opponent to reroll).

Grappling Moves

The limb moves mostly seem reasonable. The whole –1 Die type thing bugs me. I would almost certainly view a straight –1 Damage as preferable. I am not altogether sure how a Combatant can attempt to grapple the legs of a standing opponent with the same ease as grasping one of his arms. It seems to me that those sorts of attacks generally would only occur under special circumstances or whilst the opponent is prone. There should probably be a mechanical disincentive for attacking the legs in addition to an Attack penalty.

Gateway Feats

Weapon Group (Unarmed)

Seems reasonable.

Combat Technique (Unarmed)

Fine. I cannot really think of any other potential prerequisites off hand.

Other Feats

Combat Manoeuvres

Axe Kick [Unarmed 6]

Yeah, I am definitely thinking fixed Damage Bonuses are going to be the order of the day here, rather than Damage Dice Increases. A +1 Damage for one attack, once per round is a lot clearer. With that in mind, you might consider making this a Rank 4 Unarmed Manoeuvre and allowing it to be taken multiple times (I know, I am always suggesting this sort of thing... it just seems appropriate). Additional Manoeuvres could let characters make additional Axe Kick attempts in single round or increase damage or both .

Bear Hug [Unarmed 3]

So, same thought as usual regarding the increase in Damage Dice, a straight Damage Bonus would be preferable. The competence Attack Bonus increase seems a little much for an Unarmed 3 Manoeuvre, considering that Axe Kick is three ranks lower and only grants a Damage Bonus. Even considering that Unarmed Strike is easier, on the whole, to accomplish than a Grapple, it still seems more powerful.

Block [Unarmed 3]

I am a bit confused as to the sizing rules here. As far as I understand it, a Medium Two Handed Weapon would effectively be Large sized, a Medium One Handed Weapon would be effectively Medium sized and a Light Weapon would be effectively Small sized. Since Gauntlets and Unarmed Strikes are Light Weapons, they would be Small. I can understand the impulse to categorise them as smaller sized, but I do not think it is strictly necessary.
However, it is necessary to differentiate between the relative difficulty of an Unarmed Combatant blocking hafted weapons (such as Spears, Axes, Maces, Hammers, etc..) and bladed weapons (such as Swords, Scimitars and Falcatta). I think you are probably on the right track with assigning a further penalty to the ‘Block Check’ (though, I think that is probably misnamed, since there is no actual check, just a penalty applied to the opponent’s attack.
I must say that I think there should be a mechanism in place for making more than one Block attempt per round; as it is already limited by having attacks to spend, you could also limit by a scaling Technique (Unarmed 3 = 1 Attack, Unarmed 9 = 2 Attacks, Unarmed 14 = 3 Attacks, Unarmed 19 = 4 Attacks; to be consistent, you might have to raise the starting Technique Ranks to Unarmed 4).
I am a little concerned about having three separate Manoeuvres for doing essentially the same thing by different means, as there is a lot of overlap between Unarmed Block, Armoured Block and Armed Parry – not to mention the fact that a Two Weapon Fighter cannot make two Parries, but a Weapon and Shield Fighter can make a Parry and a Block, from as early as Level 1 (as could a Weapon and Fist Fighter).

Clothesline [Unarmed 6]

This seems like a reasonable Level 3 Manoeuvre. However, I wonder if a Double Clothesline should require a higher Technique? The only other thing to bear in mind is the Off Hand situation for Double Clothesline Attacks, as there seems little justification for allowing both these attacks to work well without Two Weapon Fighting.

Counter Throw [Unarmed 4]

This also seems like a reasonable Level 1 Manoeuvre. As with the other Manoeuvres that increase Damage Die Size, I again suggest Fixed Bonuses [i.e. +1 Damage per size Category difference (is this intended to only work against larger opponents? If so, you need to make that clearer)].

Crushing Blow [Unarmed 3 & Power 2]

Ahah! Finally, the Non Lethal Descriptor is invoked! So, unless you have the Crushing Blow Manoeuvre you only inflict ¼ Wound Damage. Can you still take –4 AB to change damage type from Non Lethal to Lethal and vice versa? Anyway, I do think this should be a fixed Damage Bonus, but the Technique levels seem too low. I think this should almost certainly be an Unarmed 4 and Power 4 Manoeuvre.
The scaling issue is the same as with all other instances that have been so far discussed. Automatic Scaling remains attractive to me at Levels 1, 6, 11, 16 and 20, meaning a total of +5 Damage Bonus at Level 20. Further Manoeuvres could expand the Unarmed Attack type (but, I have to admit that I would be inclined to just let this Manoeuvre apply generally to Unarmed Attacks).
Obviously, there are a number of ways to handle this, you could let it apply generally to all Unarmed attacks but force a character to purchase new Manoeuvres to increase the Damage Bonus or in order to use the ability more than once per round (either of which would cost 5 of the 40 Manoeuvres available between Level 1 and Level 20 under the system outlined above).

Elbow [Unarmed 1]

Whoah! Fists don’t count as Close Quarter Weapons? That is quite unexpected. I know the default D&D 3.x rules support this view, but I have always considered Daggers, Fists and Gauntlets to be appropriate Close Quarter (i.e. Grappling) weapons. Non Grappling Close Quarter Fighting is even more interesting, but that’s another subject!
If you are going to go with this, rename it something more general and have it apply to Daggers, Unarmed Strikes and Gauntlet Attacks. If you do that, though, you should probably raise it’s Technique requirement to Unarmed 4.

Elbow Slam [Unarmed 6]

Okay, Elbow Slam follows a very similar model to Axe Kick and so the things I would suggest are going to be very similar. It’s a reasonable Level 3 Manoeuvre that essentially increases the damage of a single attack. Fixed Damage Bonuses are just a lot easier to manage. Auto Scaling and Multiple uses through additional Manoeuvres are possibilities, as with Elbow and Axe Kick.
The Damage Bonus against smaller or prone opponents and resultant prone position of the attacker is good flavour, but I wonder whether it shouldn’t be optional against smaller opponents, since this Manoeuvre lacks any such consequence against Medium sized none prone opponents?
There may be an argument for giving this a Jump Skill Rank prerequisite, as well, not so much for the Prone Attacks, but for the ‘Flying Elbow Slam’ aspect described in the fluff.

Flip [Unarmed 4]

Seems like a reasonable Level 1 Manoeuvre, much like Bear Hug, the only problem being its strength relative to Manoeuvres such as [I]Axe Kick and Elbow Slam.

Flying Jump Kick [Unarmed 9 & Agility 6]

Heh, here we go. Flying Kick seems like a cool Level 6 Manoeuvre. However, the Agility prerequisite should either be equal to or half that of the Unarmed prerequisite, if you want Characters with Combat Technique (Unarmed), but without Combat Technique (Agility) to make use of this Manoeuvre. As it currently stands, a Character without Combat Technique (Agility) would need to be Level 9 to get access. There ought almost certainly to be a Jump Skill Rank prerequisite.
I also wonder whether this should not interact with the Charge Action in some way? Maybe increasing Charge Movement by 5’?

Grapple Mastery [Unarmed 1]

Seems reasonable. I would start it at Combat Technique (Unarmed) 4, though.

Hay Maker [Unarmed 8 & Power 4]

An entertaining Manoeuvre, but probably too early at Level 5 and almost certainly needs to have equivalent Ranks in Combat Technique (Power); I would recommend 9 at this stage (i.e. Level 6), as that is when Characters with Full Base Attack Bonus get access to Multiple Iterative Attacks. You might also consider not using Damage as a modifier to the save, since the amount can vary considerably and is open to significant increase. Instead, you would probably be better off using Level or Combat Technique (Power) Ranks .
The consequence seems appropriate, but you might also consider making this dependent on having two Free Hands. A Fixed +2 Damage Bonus would be better than expanded Dice, but it might also be good if the Damage Bonus scaled with Level or Technique, since at higher levels you are giving up more attacks.

Hook [Unarmed 4 & Power 2]

Hook seems to do something very similar to Axe Kick and Elbow Slam, but you make it a lot easier to access, at Level 1 instead of Level 3. I would be inclined to have it follow the models I have suggested for Axe Kick and Elbow Slam, all three being very basic damage increasing Manoeuvres. Now that I look, I see that you don’t mention whether Elbow Slam can be used as an Off Hand Attack without Main Gauche (I suspect that, like Axe Kick and Elbow Slam, it is intended not to be).

Improvised Shield [Unarmed 3]

This sizing system still confuses the hell out of me. It’s worth remembering, though, that Bucklers and Light Shields are very similar in D&D, the only difference being that one is worn and the other held. Light, Heavy and Great (Tower) is probably a better frame of reference. Otherwise, this seems fine to me, the only caveat being the Ranks required (to me this should be either 2 or 4) and whether [I]Improved Shield Bash works in conjunction with Improvised Shield.

Improvised Weapon [Unarmed 3]

This is an often demanded ability; I’m not sure that I think it should be available, but mechanically it seems fine, the only exception being the ranks, as above.

Jab [Unarmed 2]

I don’t think you need two adjectives to describe the speed of this attack. Mechanically, a +4 Attack Bonus seems quite high for a relatively minor reduction in damage. A 1:1 exchange of Damage Bonus to Attack Bonus seems a better idea. Prohibiting the use of Power Attack is understandable, but also potentially open to abuse, since you don’t say whether any Power Attack Penalties taken with regard to other attacks apply. Indeed, can this Manoeuvre be used if you have used Power Attack? Incidentally, I have been recently thinking about a form of Power Attack that only applies from attack to attack, but so far am unconvinced of the benefits.

Jump Kick [Unarmed 4 & Agility 3]

This should definitely be Combat Technique (Unarmed) 4, Combat Technique (Agility) 4 and Jump Skill Rank 4. I don’t think that the Jump Check should influence the Damage Bonus. Surely it would make more sense to scale by Ranks? . Just as an off hand thought, I am not sure that I would disallow the use of this Feat in conjunction with Medium Armour.

Knee Strike [Unarmed 1]

Pretty much the same things I said about Elbow (which in retrospect should be renamed [I]Elbow Strike)

Ogre’s Grip [Unarmed 12]

A good Level 9 Manoeuvre. I’m not sure it should be stackable at Level 15, mind. If I was going to do that, I would make it Level 10 and 20, respectively.

Push [Unarmed 2]

An interesting Manoeuvre with a very low Rank (maybe 4 would be better). I am almost certain that this should be a Combat Technique (Power) Manoeuvre, though.

Reverse Hold [Unarmed 4]

A perfectly good Level 1 Manoeuvre.

Scissor Kick [Unarmed 4]

Marvellous! Combat Technique (Unarmed) 4, though? I would have thought at least 6 and the same for Combat Technique (Agility) and Jump Skill Ranks. I assume that this can be used in conjunction with Flurry and Off Hand Attacks (or even be an Off Hand Attack)? I might be inclined to call this Split Kick, rather than Scissor Kick, but both seem appropriate.

Snap Kick [Unarmed 2]

Again two adjectives to describe the speed of this Manoeuvre? Pretty much what I said about Jab applies to this as well. I’m not sure whether I think Jab and Snap Kick should be potentially used eight times in a round in conjunction with Main Gauche.

Switch Hold [Unarmed 4]

This seems like a reasonable Level 1 Manoeuvre. Can you critically fail on a Manipulation Check, though?

The Bigger They Are [Unarmed 7]

Quite a powerful Level 4 Manoeuvre this. I would suggest that it ought to scale by level in some way [i.e. a penalty up to twice that of the Size Bonus, but not more than the number of Ranks (-3) in Combat Technique (Unarmed). I wonder whether they shouldn’t also have Ranks in Combat Technique (Agility) or Combat Technique (Power).

Upper Cut [Unarmed 7]

Okay, another Manoeuvre in the vein of Axe Kick, Elbow Slam and Hook. I like the special quality that doubles the Damage Bonus at Close Quarters, but does it work in a Grapple? Should it, even? In any case, I think this should follow the pattern of these other three Feats [i.e. Bonus Damage and perhaps some sort of Special Quality, as with Elbow Slam].

GENERAL NOTES

I would definitely do away with expanded Damage Dice, fixed Damage Bonuses and Penalties are much easier to keep track of and gauge the effect of relative to other effects. You can have a lot of fun with this Unarmed section of the rules, there being a ton of possible attack forms that spring to mind and the only problem being the capacity to learn the damn things! There weren’t many Grapple Manoeuvres, but, as you say, there is plenty of potential.
What I was surprised to see was the lack of combinations and the reliance on the Main Gauche Feat to make Off Handed Attacks as Manoeuvres; I would be inclined to do away with that particular rule. Combinations have great potential . All kinds of Tekken type cool. I was also surprised to see no [I]Ryuken (Dragon Punch) Manoeuvre.

Golthur

2007-03-09, 02:34 PM

Hey Golthur, sorry about the long delay between postings.

No problem. I've been swamped myself getting ready to start a new campaign, so I've been pressed for time as well. First game was last night, though, so I've got a bit of a breather.

I agree with the changes you have made. I have a couple of quibbles, but they are probably just preferential.

UNARMED COMBAT STYLE

Special Rules

Unarmed Attack Forms

I can see why you might wish to go into so much detail with regard to method of attack, but I do think that it is a needless level of complication. Head Butts, Punches and Kicks don’t really need any additional distinction rules. I recommend keeping such distinctions as an ‘optional rule’ and try this system without them first.

I more or less pulled this from an AD&D unarmed combat system that replaced the horrid percentile tables they used to have for unarmed combat. I also wanted to keep the distinction between kick, strike, and lock/throw martial arts styles a la AD&D Oriental Adventures. It keeps a boxer different from a Greco-Roman wrester, or a Shaolin Kung-Fu Master.

The main issue I have with it is the die type issue, which is potentially somewhat cumbersome. That, and no one will master the head butt, since it's of very limited usefulness. :amused:

When you discuss the effects of Metal Gauntlets, Brass Knuckles or Cesti, you mention that this grants a +2 Bonus to Punch Damage. This leaves me a little confused. Is there no Non Lethal Damage? In conventional Dungeons & Dragons these items allow a Character to inflict Lethal Damage without the Improved Unarmed Strike Feat or –4 Penalty to change Damage Type. If all Unarmed Damage is lethal, then I think that the Damage Dice chart is a little much, especially when considering how this would pan out when running Boxing Matches (it does seem that Unarmed Damage is Non Lethal, but just in case).

Yes, unarmed damage inherently has the Nonlethal descriptor attached - which basically means whenever you do wound damage (for whatever reason), you only do 1/4 the normal value. Gauntlets, brass knuckles, or cesti would remove that descriptor in addition to giving you the extra damage.

The idea is that, while you can kill someone with nonlethal damage, it usually takes a determined effort to do so, unless you're specifically trained to use your hands as weapons. If you knock someone out, and keep kicking them repeatedly after they're down, however, well...

The damage dice chart is meant, more or less, to mirror the monk's unarmed damage chart as it progresses up. It should be difficult for a size Medium creature to get much beyond 2d6, and even then it's only on one of punches, kicks, or grappling.

The way I currently do it is by fixed damage. Medium Characters do 0 Damage (minimum 1) and every size category in either direction increases or decreases the damage by 1, so that a Large Creature does [1 + Strength Bonus] Damage. Metal Gauntlets and such, add 1, whilst Boxing Gloves and such, reduce the damage by 1 or more.

An interesting system, but personally, I prefer variable damage. Sometimes, you get a lucky punch. It's funny, though, that we ended up coming to very similar conclusions about gauntlets/knuckles/etc.

Grappling

I quite like the idea of attempting to grapple different areas and apply moves, rather than a generic grapple check. However, I am not sure why you are imposing such a complex system of modifiers. Also, you do not seem to indicate whether starting a grapple is a Touch Attack or not (I assume it is). I suspect that a generic –4 penalty to grab a limb or head, rather than a torso, would be sufficient. Size adjustments to Armour Class already account for differently sized limbs.
The idea was to make it mesh with a called shot system, but you're right, it no doubt needs some simplification.

Because I use both class defense bonuses and a modified armour-as-DR, there's no difference between a touch attack and a regular attack. If a regular attack hits, you've touched them. I compensate for the other reasons for touch attacks (mostly relating to wizards with bad BAB and magic) in other ways.

You might need to take into account the difficulty of grabbing a limb that is behind a Shield. Unlike the current rules, I do feel that a Shield should play a part in deflecting grapple attempts, unless the Shield is the target of the grapple.

Very good point. Grabbing a limb behind a shield should be quite difficult. I'd probably rule that in addition to a fixed penalty based on the size of the shield, you get a penalty based on any active defense bonuses due to the user's shield expertise. It might be as simple as applying all of their active+passive shield bonuses to their defense.

I think it could be argued both ways in terms of verisimilitude, but for the sake of simplicity I would suggest that during the manipulation phase size modifiers should apply when using Strength or Dexterity, rather than just when using Strength. For Escape Checks and Stability Checks, I suggest applying the size modifiers to both Strength and Dexterity checks as well. Presumably, these checks must exceed the opponent’s manipulation check? Otherwise, there is no indication as to what happens in the case of a draw.

My goal was this - for grappling, it's better to either be big and strong, or to be small and fast. Either will give you an advantage. The size bonuses for Escape Checks are reversed from the normal situation. Yes, it's an opposed roll. Ties are resolved the same way other ties in skill checks are - highest ability modifier. If that's still a tie, I'd probably favour the "passive" participant - i.e. the defender.

I agree with the idea of maintaining a hold automatically from round to round, but I think you might need to be careful about the automatically inflicted damage. It seems okay to me, but it sounds like an avenue for potential abuse.

The drawback to it is that the attacker has to spend a standard action doing it every round, so he can't do anything else. The defender can opt to try to escape every round. I suppose that in an extremely unfair grappling situation, this could be an issue - it's one of the reasons I added the variety of methods to escape (Str or Dex), and the ability to escape by purely inflicting damage.

With regards to breaking a hold, what is the difficulty? Presumably, it is the original attack roll? If so, the attacker should be allowed a chance to reroll. I think if the escape check succeeds, the attacker should immediately be allowed to reroll his hold attempt to resist the break, since he might potentially have originally succeeded on a very low roll indeed.

Good question - although I don't really say, my initial thinking is that it would be a reroll on both sides. I suppose that might not be very fair if the attacker initially rolled a very, very high grappling check (representing a nearly "unbreakable" hold). I suppose I could allow the attacker the option to either use their original roll or reroll, but they're forced to to take the new roll. I'd have to do some analysis to see how it changes the situation, though.

Breaking a hold by striking the opponent opens up a whole new area of the grappling rules. For me, the principle purpose of grappling in lethal combat is to prevent an opponent from striking you and at the same time make it easier to strike your opponent. I have never thought the current rules were much good for this. A Fortitude Saving Throw doesn’t seem to me to be the best way to handle this. I think a successful attack should simply result in an Escape or Stability Check (perhaps one that forces the opponent to reroll).

That's the purpose of a limb lock, that's for sure. If you've got the opponent's primary hand in an arm lock, he's going to have real trouble striking you. It's also one of the other reasons why I penalize regular unarmed strikes when in close quarters - it's difficult for you to get the proper amount of arm leverage when someone's hugging you. Certain specialized strikes, though, no problem - that's one of the reasons for the Elbow, Knee, etc. maneuvers.

I wanted a Fortitude save, simply to avoid the issue of the person with +15 ranks in Technique (Unarmed) vs. +0 guy being an impossible situation. He might not be able to slip or muscle his way out of the grapple, but he can always beat the guy in the head repeatedly. I'm willing to accept an additional escape/stability check instead of the save, but you'd need to add a bonus based on the damage done.

Grappling Moves

The limb moves mostly seem reasonable. The whole –1 Die type thing bugs me. I would almost certainly view a straight –1 Damage as preferable. I am not altogether sure how a Combatant can attempt to grapple the legs of a standing opponent with the same ease as grasping one of his arms. It seems to me that those sorts of attacks generally would only occur under special circumstances or whilst the opponent is prone. There should probably be a mechanical disincentive for attacking the legs in addition to an Attack penalty.

Yes, the die type thing is seeming cumbersome to me, but I wanted the unarmed maneuvers to be more than just variants of Power Attack. I'm at a loss for a different mechanic that I like, however.

As for the legs, I agree - perhaps apply half the stability bonus (+2) or allow 1.5x Strength on an opposed escape check, since the legs are much stronger?

Axe Kick [Unarmed 6]

Yeah, I am definitely thinking fixed Damage Bonuses are going to be the order of the day here, rather than Damage Dice Increases. A +1 Damage for one attack, once per round is a lot clearer. With that in mind, you might consider making this a Rank 4 Unarmed Manoeuvre and allowing it to be taken multiple times (I know, I am always suggesting this sort of thing... it just seems appropriate). Additional Manoeuvres could let characters make additional Axe Kick attempts in single round or increase damage or both .
General recommendation on the die types thing understood :smile:

The point of Axe Kick was extra damage against prone (or small) opponents. Basically, the lower they are, the more they hurt. It's a situational modifier, but a more powerful one - e.g. against a prone opponent of your same size, it's usually +2 die types. This makes Trip + Axe Kick a good combo, for example.

Bear Hug [Unarmed 3]

So, same thought as usual regarding the increase in Damage Dice, a straight Damage Bonus would be preferable. The competence Attack Bonus increase seems a little much for an Unarmed 3 Manoeuvre, considering that Axe Kick is three ranks lower and only grants a Damage Bonus. Even considering that Unarmed Strike is easier, on the whole, to accomplish than a Grapple, it still seems more powerful.

Yes, this is somewhat of a holdover from an older version, where the grappling penalties were larger. At this point, I'd half it to +2.

Block [Unarmed 3]

I am a bit confused as to the sizing rules here. As far as I understand it, a Medium Two Handed Weapon would effectively be Large sized, a Medium One Handed Weapon would be effectively Medium sized and a Light Weapon would be effectively Small sized. Since Gauntlets and Unarmed Strikes are Light Weapons, they would be Small. I can understand the impulse to categorise them as smaller sized, but I do not think it is strictly necessary.

No, it's two-handed = Small object, one-handed = Tiny object, light = Diminutive object, but all that really matters for Block is the size difference; so, if you're trying to block a Medium creature's one-handed weapon with you-as-a-Medium-creature's natural (light) weapon, it's a one size category difference. A Small creature's one-handed weapon vs. a Medium creature's light or natural weapon would be zero categories difference.

However, it is necessary to differentiate between the relative difficulty of an Unarmed Combatant blocking hafted weapons (such as Spears, Axes, Maces, Hammers, etc..) and bladed weapons (such as Swords, Scimitars and Falcatta). I think you are probably on the right track with assigning a further penalty to the ‘Block Check’ (though, I think that is probably misnamed, since there is no actual check, just a penalty applied to the opponent’s attack.

You're correct here. Penalty suggestions?

I can change the text for the "block check", certainly.

I must say that I think there should be a mechanism in place for making more than one Block attempt per round; as it is already limited by having attacks to spend, you could also limit by a scaling Technique (Unarmed 3 = 1 Attack, Unarmed 9 = 2 Attacks, Unarmed 14 = 3 Attacks, Unarmed 19 = 4 Attacks; to be consistent, you might have to raise the starting Technique Ranks to Unarmed 4).
I am a little concerned about having three separate Manoeuvres for doing essentially the same thing by different means, as there is a lot of overlap between Unarmed Block, Armoured Block and Armed Parry – not to mention the fact that a Two Weapon Fighter cannot make two Parries, but a Weapon and Shield Fighter can make a Parry and a Block, from as early as Level 1 (as could a Weapon and Fist Fighter).

I had meant Parry to be a more effective version of Block, but limited in the weapons you could use it with; I also intended it to be a more agility/technique based thing, whereas block is more strength. Armed, Armoured, and Unarmed block are the same maneuver. I just put it in different categories with the relevant mechanics for each separated out. It's a presentation problem, mostly.

Scaling for Block, though is an interesting idea. This would keep the full parry option of the Parry maneuver as the "more powerful" aspect.

Clothesline [Unarmed 6]

This seems like a reasonable Level 3 Manoeuvre. However, I wonder if a Double Clothesline should require a higher Technique? The only other thing to bear in mind is the Off Hand situation for Double Clothesline Attacks, as there seems little justification for allowing both these attacks to work well without Two Weapon Fighting.

True. You'd need to be able to use both arms, or both ends of your staff or polearm. You'd suffer a TWF penalty.

Counter Throw [Unarmed 4]

This also seems like a reasonable Level 1 Manoeuvre. As with the other Manoeuvres that increase Damage Die Size, I again suggest Fixed Bonuses [i.e. +1 Damage per size Category difference (is this intended to only work against larger opponents? If so, you need to make that clearer)].

No, it works against all opponents. It just has a synergy with the maneuver The Bigger They Are, which teaches you how to use an opponent's size and weight against them. In that case, this maneuver is more effective, since you already have that training.

Crushing Blow [Unarmed 3 & Power 2]

Ahah! Finally, the Non Lethal Descriptor is invoked! So, unless you have the Crushing Blow Manoeuvre you only inflict ¼ Wound Damage. Can you still take –4 AB to change damage type from Non Lethal to Lethal and vice versa? Anyway, I do think this should be a fixed Damage Bonus, but the Technique levels seem too low. I think this should almost certainly be an Unarmed 4 and Power 4 Manoeuvre.
Funny, my players said exactly the opposite about the ranks. They found it difficult to create an effective unarmed combatant at 1st level as it stood. My thinking was "there's a good reason people invented weapons, you know". But, well, players will be as they will be :wink:

Good question on the lethal/nonlethal thing. I generally wouldn't let someone without Crushing Blow do lethal in this rule set with an unarmed attack. They can still kill someone by beating them repeatedly once they're at 0 VP, anyway, so it's little difference, mechanically. Besides, a pair of brass knuckles takes care of the problem with no penalty, anyway.

Someone with Crushing Blow, on the other hand, should be able to switch freely from lethal to nonlethal as they see fit, no?

The scaling issue is the same as with all other instances that have been so far discussed. Automatic Scaling remains attractive to me at Levels 1, 6, 11, 16 and 20, meaning a total of +5 Damage Bonus at Level 20. Further Manoeuvres could expand the Unarmed Attack type (but, I have to admit that I would be inclined to just let this Manoeuvre apply generally to Unarmed Attacks).

Yes, I've switched my general scale to 4 in my own text; I haven't posted the changes yet, though. I've been very, very, very busy of late (as you may have noticed by my reduced posting frequency, in general).

Again, as I said, I wanted to distinguish between pugilists, wrestlers, and different styles of martial artists; which is why the restriction on the attack forms. Just because you're good at punching doesn't mean you're good at wrestling.

This maneuver, though, is mostly meant to mirror the monk's increase in unarmed damage with levels.

Obviously, there are a number of ways to handle this, you could let it apply generally to all Unarmed attacks but force a character to purchase new Manoeuvres to increase the Damage Bonus or in order to use the ability more than once per round (either of which would cost 5 of the 40 Manoeuvres available between Level 1 and Level 20 under the system outlined above).

With this one, it's meant to be a blanket bonus on all attacks of the type. This makes it more powerful than the various "+1 die type once a round" class of maneuvers.

Elbow [Unarmed 1]

Whoah! Fists don’t count as Close Quarter Weapons? That is quite unexpected. I know the default D&D 3.x rules support this view, but I have always considered Daggers, Fists and Gauntlets to be appropriate Close Quarter (i.e. Grappling) weapons. Non Grappling Close Quarter Fighting is even more interesting, but that’s another subject!

If you are going to go with this, rename it something more general and have it apply to Daggers, Unarmed Strikes and Gauntlet Attacks. If you do that, though, you should probably raise it’s Technique requirement to Unarmed 4.

This was meant to mirror the difficulty of striking someone while you're grappled. Fists can't be used easily in close quarters, but daggers have the Close descriptor, and so they can act unhindered. It gives people a good reason to carry a dagger :smile:

I suppose this maneuver would also fit as a Jeet Kune Do style one-inch-punch or other similar tactic.

Elbow Slam [Unarmed 6]

Okay, Elbow Slam follows a very similar model to Axe Kick and so the things I would suggest are going to be very similar. It’s a reasonable Level 3 Manoeuvre that essentially increases the damage of a single attack. Fixed Damage Bonuses are just a lot easier to manage. Auto Scaling and Multiple uses through additional Manoeuvres are possibilities, as with Elbow and Axe Kick.
The Damage Bonus against smaller or prone opponents and resultant prone position of the attacker is good flavour, but I wonder whether it shouldn’t be optional against smaller opponents, since this Manoeuvre lacks any such consequence against Medium sized none prone opponents?
Yes, the idea is that it's a more powerful, but situational maneuver. It's more meant for combinations or a limited class of opponents.

There may be an argument for giving this a Jump Skill Rank prerequisite, as well, not so much for the Prone Attacks, but for the ‘Flying Elbow Slam’ aspect described in the fluff.

Yeah, I can see why you say that. Mechanically, though, it's very similar to Axe Kick, I'd prefer to keep the mechanics similar. This one's a bit weaker than Axe Kick because of the automatic prone consequence.

Flip [Unarmed 4]

Seems like a reasonable Level 1 Manoeuvre, much like Bear Hug, the only problem being its strength relative to Manoeuvres such as [I]Axe Kick and Elbow Slam.

Yes, I'd likely do the same as I suggested with Bear Hug - drop the bonus to +2.

Flying Jump Kick [Unarmed 9 & Agility 6]

Heh, here we go. Flying Kick seems like a cool Level 6 Manoeuvre. However, the Agility prerequisite should either be equal to or half that of the Unarmed prerequisite, if you want Characters with Combat Technique (Unarmed), but without Combat Technique (Agility) to make use of this Manoeuvre. As it currently stands, a Character without Combat Technique (Agility) would need to be Level 9 to get access. There ought almost certainly to be a Jump Skill Rank prerequisite.
I also wonder whether this should not interact with the Charge Action in some way? Maybe increasing Charge Movement by 5’?
You're probably right - I'd lower it to half.

As for charging, it should certainly increase, I guess changing the flying jump kick to +10' if you are charging instead of +5' would work.

Grapple Mastery [Unarmed 1]

Seems reasonable. I would start it at Combat Technique (Unarmed) 4, though.

Seems reasonable, as well.

Hay Maker [Unarmed 8 & Power 4]

An entertaining Manoeuvre, but probably too early at Level 5 and almost certainly needs to have equivalent Ranks in Combat Technique (Power); I would recommend 9 at this stage (i.e. Level 6), as that is when Characters with Full Base Attack Bonus get access to Multiple Iterative Attacks. You might also consider not using Damage as a modifier to the save, since the amount can vary considerably and is open to significant increase. Instead, you would probably be better off using Level or Combat Technique (Power) Ranks .
The consequence seems appropriate, but you might also consider making this dependent on having two Free Hands. A Fixed +2 Damage Bonus would be better than expanded Dice, but it might also be good if the Damage Bonus scaled with Level or Technique, since at higher levels you are giving up more attacks.

The "knockout" effect only comes into play if you score a critical hit, so it's an interesting, but minor, secondary thing. I suppose using damage can be made to be broken. I'll have to think about a reasonable alternative. I use a similar rule for saps and garrotes as well, so this would affect all of them.

I didn't visualize this as a hammer punch - so I'm not sure why you're suggesting the two hands free. Balance?

Hook [Unarmed 4 & Power 2]

Hook seems to do something very similar to Axe Kick and Elbow Slam, but you make it a lot easier to access, at Level 1 instead of Level 3. I would be inclined to have it follow the models I have suggested for Axe Kick and Elbow Slam, all three being very basic damage increasing Manoeuvres. Now that I look, I see that you don’t mention whether Elbow Slam can be used as an Off Hand Attack without Main Gauche (I suspect that, like Axe Kick and Elbow Slam, it is intended not to be).

Hook is meant as a quick +1 die type damage booster that's easy to get at 1st level, but only once per round. Axe Kick and Elbow Slam are meant as higher boosts, but situational. It's true an Elbow Slam can always give you a +1, but you're prone after, so it's not much of a trade off. The potential increase to as much as +3 die types with Elbow Slam is what makes it a "tougher" maneuver.

Yes, the Main Gauche limitation applies to all maneuvers by default. I explicitly state it in most, but it's possible I missed something.

Improvised Shield [Unarmed 3]

This sizing system still confuses the hell out of me. It’s worth remembering, though, that Bucklers and Light Shields are very similar in D&D, the only difference being that one is worn and the other held. Light, Heavy and Great (Tower) is probably a better frame of reference. Otherwise, this seems fine to me, the only caveat being the Ranks required (to me this should be either 2 or 4) and whether [I]Improved Shield Bash works in conjunction with Improvised Shield.

Yeah, I scale shields from +1->+4, and more or less apply the labels "buckler", "small", "large", "tower". Not 100% historically accurate, I know. I have definitions for all of them that basically scale them up in size from smallest to largest. With bucklers, your hand is free, small shield, it's not.

I set it at 3 ranks to keep it out of the hands of a non-Unarmed person, but yet easy. Setting it to 4 wouldn't hurt anything, though. It would work with Improved Shield Bash, certainly, although you of course run the risk of breaking your improvised shield.

Improvised Weapon [Unarmed 3]

This is an often demanded ability; I’m not sure that I think it should be available, but mechanically it seems fine, the only exception being the ranks, as above.

Yes, often-demanded. The idea was to make improvised weapons inherently worse than proper ones. Likewise, grabbing something that actually is a weapon and using it as an improvised one. I didn't want this to basically be "all weapon group proficiencies for the cost of one maneuver".

Jab [Unarmed 2]

I don’t think you need two adjectives to describe the speed of this attack.

Bad writing alert noted :wink:

Mechanically, a +4 Attack Bonus seems quite high for a relatively minor reduction in damage. A 1:1 exchange of Damage Bonus to Attack Bonus seems a better idea. Prohibiting the use of Power Attack is understandable, but also potentially open to abuse, since you don’t say whether any Power Attack Penalties taken with regard to other attacks apply. Indeed, can this Manoeuvre be used if you have used Power Attack? Incidentally, I have been recently thinking about a form of Power Attack that only applies from attack to attack, but so far am unconvinced of the benefits.

Yes, the mechanics of this one were/are problematic.

I agree with changing the damage scale. +4/-4 seems reasonable, if a bit punitive. A +2 doesn't seem like enough to me for some reason.

The goal here was - quick attack, that you can use more than once a round. This way, a pugilist with multiple attacks (either iteratively or through TWF) would end up doing frequent jabs, with a hook or other specialty punch once per round.

Jabs are hard to avoid and block - so, the mechanics I can think of are:
Straight attack bonus, this would represent the "hard to avoid" part.
Special bonus when trying to counter a Jab with Block; this would be the "hard to block" part.

The catch is, I didn't want this to become a damage booster as well, especially since it can be done frequently in a round. When combined with Power Attack, an extra attack boost becomes a damage boost instead.

Suggestions?

Jump Kick [Unarmed 4 & Agility 3]

This should definitely be Combat Technique (Unarmed) 4, Combat Technique (Agility) 4 and Jump Skill Rank 4. I don’t think that the Jump Check should influence the Damage Bonus. Surely it would make more sense to scale by Ranks? . Just as an off hand thought, I am not sure that I would disallow the use of this Feat in conjunction with Medium Armour.

I can understand why you wouldn't want the Jump check to increase the results. If that were the case, I'd bump it up to at least +2 die types. I can see the potential for abuse here. I could reasonably allow it with Medium Armour with an armour check penalty to the Jump check.

Knee Strike [Unarmed 1]

Pretty much the same things I said about Elbow (which in retrospect should be renamed [I]Elbow Strike)

Yes, you're likely correct.

Ogre’s Grip [Unarmed 12]

A good Level 9 Manoeuvre. I’m not sure it should be stackable at Level 15, mind. If I was going to do that, I would make it Level 10 and 20, respectively.

Large, then Huge at level 20? That seems reasonable, actually.

Push [Unarmed 2]

An interesting Manoeuvre with a very low Rank (maybe 4 would be better). I am almost certain that this should be a Combat Technique (Power) Manoeuvre, though.

Hmm. I can see your point. It's actually a bit of both - bump it maybe to Unarmed 4/Power 2?

Scissor Kick [Unarmed 4]

Marvellous! Combat Technique (Unarmed) 4, though? I would have thought at least 6 and the same for Combat Technique (Agility) and Jump Skill Ranks. I assume that this can be used in conjunction with Flurry and Off Hand Attacks (or even be an Off Hand Attack)? I might be inclined to call this Split Kick, rather than Scissor Kick, but both seem appropriate.

You're right, it's a bit low; bumping to 6. Not sure about the Jump ranks, though - if so, the requirement shouldn't be too onerous. No reason why it couldn't be used in combination with other maneuvers, and I'd allow it as an off-hand with Main Gauche.

I originally visualized it as the two striking the same opponent, and then thought there was no reason it couldn't be used against any two opponents. The name comes from the original :smile:

Snap Kick [Unarmed 2]

Again two adjectives to describe the speed of this Manoeuvre? Pretty much what I said about Jab applies to this as well. I’m not sure whether I think Jab and Snap Kick should be potentially used eight times in a round in conjunction with Main Gauche.

Yes, the wonders of copy and paste on the bad writing alert... :smile:

Well, Main Gauche, plus several Extra Off-Hand Attack maneuvers, and at sizeable penalties. Still, once the mechanics for Jab are improved, this may be less of an issue.

Switch Hold [Unarmed 4]

This seems like a reasonable Level 1 Manoeuvre. Can you critically fail on a Manipulation Check, though?

Absolutely, yes. I have a universal fumble rule that applies to skill checks as well as attack rolls and saving throws.

The Bigger They Are [Unarmed 7]

Quite a powerful Level 4 Manoeuvre this. I would suggest that it ought to scale by level in some way [i.e. a penalty up to twice that of the Size Bonus, but not more than the number of Ranks (-3) in Combat Technique (Unarmed). I wonder whether they shouldn’t also have Ranks in Combat Technique (Agility) or Combat Technique (Power).

Seems reasonable.

Upper Cut [Unarmed 7]

Okay, another Manoeuvre in the vein of Axe Kick, Elbow Slam and Hook. I like the special quality that doubles the Damage Bonus at Close Quarters, but does it work in a Grapple? Should it, even? In any case, I think this should follow the pattern of these other three Feats [i.e. Bonus Damage and perhaps some sort of Special Quality, as with Elbow Slam].

If you were already grappled, I would say you couldn't use it. That would likely apply to most of the specialty punches, now that I think about it.

GENERAL NOTES

I would definitely do away with expanded Damage Dice, fixed Damage Bonuses and Penalties are much easier to keep track of and gauge the effect of relative to other effects. You can have a lot of fun with this Unarmed section of the rules, there being a ton of possible attack forms that spring to mind and the only problem being the capacity to learn the damn things! There weren’t many Grapple Manoeuvres, but, as you say, there is plenty of potential.

As I said, I didn't want all of the maneuvers to boil down to fancy versions of Power Attack. I also wanted the mechanics to automatically be visually descriptive :smile: I wanted it to feel like an action or martial-arts movie.

Exactly so on the maneuvers. Heck, watch a couple of wrestling, boxing, or martial arts matches, and you'll come up with a dozen, easy.

What I was surprised to see was the lack of combinations and the reliance on the Main Gauche Feat to make Off Handed Attacks as Manoeuvres; I would be inclined to do away with that particular rule. Combinations have great potential . All kinds of Tekken type cool. I was also surprised to see no [I]Ryuken (Dragon Punch) Manoeuvre.

Check the Combination maneuver in the Weapons Mastery section - there's what I was intending to use for combinations. Successfully landing jabs makes your hook more effective, etc.

With unarmed I can see it reasonable to do away with Main Gauche, but certainly not with weapons. I'm not sure I want it to be 100% free, on the other hand.

Matthew

2007-04-15, 09:51 PM

Hey again Golthur. Sorry it has taken so long to get round to posting this again. I was in the middle of writing some responses to the previous post before deploying this last part of the initial survey, but I seem to have lost it! Oh well, I will either find it and put it in or write something again. In any case here goes:

ARMED COMBAT STYLE

This Combat Technique is a worry for me, as it is effectively not a single Combat Technique, as there is one for each Weapon Proficiency Group. I think that, given the number of Feats, Manoeuvres and Skill Points available to the average Character, this is an unwieldy way of handling things and may actually serve to undermine your efforts to relieve the burden of Feat Intensive Character Builds.
On the other hand, there is a reasonable argument to be made for this approach, since these Manoeuvres are supposed to be the province of specially trained combatants. All the same, I think this puts too much emphasis on speciality.
I like the idea that these can be combined with the Manoeuvres from other Combat Techniques, but, again, I have to wonder how often a Character is going to get the chance, taking into account the difficulty of becoming versed in a handful of Combat Techniques. It almost makes me wonder whether the Armed and Unarmed Combat Techniques should be somehow treated separately from the other Combat Techniques.

Special Rules

The whole Light Blades and Heavy Blades distinction I find hard to stomach to begin with. Is the difference between a Short Sword and a Long Sword more pronounced than the difference between a Long Sword and a Falchion? I find it quite galling that Breach Armour, for instance, can be used with a Short Sword, but not a Long Sword.
Combat Technique (Dual) is also a bit of an odd one. It seems a little much to require Characters to invest Skill Points in yet another Combat Technique to be able to make use of Two Weapon Fighting. I suppose one could argue that Combat Technique (Power) is some sort of equivalent for Two Handed Fighting, but there are too many Manoeuvres in that category that would equally apply. I would like to see Two Weapon Fighting be a viable option, but I don’t think this set up is going to make it any more attractive than it already is.
I am still not convinced about the whole Light Weapons 0.5, One Handed Weapons 1.0 and Two Handed Weapons 1.5 Strength multiplier thing, but I guess I can live with it. I do think that there is no real reason for a Two Weapon Fighter to gain twice the effects of the Armour Class increase for Total Defence; I think it should be 1.5 for Off Hand Weapons and 2.0 for Shields, and be consistent with the Parry and Block Manoeuvres.

GATEWAY FEATS

Weapon Group Proficiency [Combat]

I don’t like the Unearthed Arcana versions of Weapon group Proficiencies, but that is just a matter of my own preference. I do think you need to be aware of specialist Weapon Groups like (Monk Weapons), as these set quite a useful precedent. The groupings I currently use are Spear, Shield, Dagger, Sword, Axe, Mace, Bow, Unarmed and Throw, which conveniently works out at nine overlapping Weapon groups, which is equivalent to the Eight Schools of Magic and the General School. Exotic and other Specialist Weapons require their own Proficiency.

Combat Technique (Armed) [Combat: Armed]

Seems mechanically fine in this context.

Two Weapon Fighting [Combat]

Why do you need to be proficient in a Weapons Group to take this Feat? Seems kind of pointless to me, given the capacity for Two Weapon Fighting to apply to Unarmed Combat.

OTHER FEATS

Main Gauche [Combat: Dual]

I would just do away with this Feat altogether, it is just an encumbrance on an already Feat and Manoeuvre intensive system. What is the purpose of having Characters wait until Level Two before they can use Manoeuvres with their Off Hand Attacks?

GENERAL ARMED MANOEUVRES

Master’s Strike [Armed 9]

Seems like a reasonable Level Six Manoeuvre. I take it that this applies to a specific weapon, such as ‘Long Sword’? I might be inclined to have it apply to all types of one Weapon, such as Short, Long and Great Swords. You might consider noting whether this can be taken multiple times with different weapons. It might also be interesting to allow this Feat to be taken again at higher levels to gain multiple uses, such as at Base Attack Bonus 11 or 16.

Weapon Focus [Armed 5]

Hmmn. An interesting take. I think I would be inclined to make it [I]Combat Technique (Armed) 4, apply to all types of one weapon (as above) and reduce the Damage Bonus to a straight +1, multiplied by the descriptor of the weapon. As written, you could take this Feat again at levels 5, 9, 13 and 17. I would have made it either levels 5, 10, 15 and 20, or else 6, 11 and 16.

MELEE WEAPON MASTERY MANOEUVRES

Breach Armour [Light Blades 9 & Armour 1]

This kind of Feat should almost certainly be open to Spears and Long Swords as well as Daggers and Short Swords. I don’t think it is necessary to add the Combat Technique (Armour) 1 stipulation. I can see why you have, but it just seems superfluous. Much cleaner to keep it an Armed Feat.
The mechanics of it seem a little powerful, as ignoring all Armour DR could mean anything from 1 to 100 or higher. I think it would be better if the amount of DR it ignored scaled with Combat Technique (Armed) Ranks, Base Attack Bonus or Level.

Bruising Strike [Maces/Clubs 4 & Anatomy 1]

Again, the Combat Technique (Anatomy) prerequisite seems superfluous. I would just allow this to work with any Bludgeoning Weapon Attack, not just wooden ones. I do find it interesting that you halve the damage of Non Lethal Attacks with Lethal Weapons normally; I do not think I am sold on that rule, but it is deserving of some consideration.

Bypass Parry [Flails/Chains 5]

Not sure how far I agree with the fluff, but this seems like a reasonable Manoeuvre. It might need a higher Combat Technique (Armed) Rank and you might consider making the Attack Bonus of the second attack be the one at which the attack takes place. Additional clarification about how this works with four Iterative Attacks and with Off Hand Attacks seems also necessary. You might also consider making this a scaling Manoeuvre that bypasses a certain amount of Defence Bonus derived from Guard, Parry, Block, Defensive Fighting and Total Defence, scaled by Level, Base Attack Bonus or Ranks in Combat Technique (Armed).

Bypass Shield [Flails/Chains 5]

Hmmn. the fluff of the previous Manoeuvre suggested that this was already what was being done. Still, mechanically this is different, but I am wary of giving Chains even more uses. Otherwise, same as above.

Clothesline [Maces/Clubs 6, Polearms 6]

This is a pretty cool Level 3 Manoeuvre. The only thing I would say is don’t make it ordinarily work with 5’ gap between target squares, as that implies a 10’ long weapon; that should probably only work if the weapon has Reach.

Combination* [Melee 4]

A generic combination Manoeuvre is difficult to legislate for. I quite like the idea and increased AB and DB is a good way of modelling this Tekken type of thing. This is where it is necessary to start thinking about how many attacks an individual character is capable of making and partly why I suggested having Flurry Scale like Two Weapon Fighting. I think you might also consider the ‘Free Attack’ option that I suggested in the Combat Technique (Unarmed) section as a potential result of a combination.
Scaling this sort of thing by Technique is going to be difficult. A two armed Character can get up to three Attacks at Levels 1-5 (Iterative, Off Hand, Flurry), perhaps six at Levels 6-10, nine at Levels 11-15 and twelve at Levels 16-20. A clean progression might be to allow two blow combinations at Level 1, three to four blow combinations at Level 6, five to six blow combinations at Level 11 and seven to eight blow combinations at Level 16, but requiring that the first blow of any combination must be successful in order for the combination to take place.
Possible Combinations would definitely benefit from further investigation.

Constrict [Flails/Chains 8]

The flavour of this Manoeuvre makes my mind boggle, but it seems mechanically okay; maybe Combat Technique (Armed) 9, rather than 8 ?

Deflect and Disengage [Melee 4]

Seems good, though the potential to gain a +12 Bonus at Level 19 seems potentially a bit high; depends what you want, though.

Entangle [Flails/Chains 7]

I do not know whether Flails are really suitable for this sort of thing, but I suppose it depends on the length of the chain between the head and shaft. Seems mechanically fine to me.

Flowing Stances [Melee 9]

Good stuff. The prerequisite should be Base Attack Bonus 6, I think? Anyway, I would probably allow the Character to shift his Bonuses at the end of a round. You should consider allowing the degree to scale, so at Level 11 it becomes within three points and at Level 16 it becomes within four points.

Haft Grip [Polearms 4, Spears 4]

A nifty Level 1 Manoeuvre that models The Complete Warrior version well. Also, a good example of why I dislike [I]Unearthed Arcana Weapon Groups...

Half Blade Grip [Heavy Blades 4]

Heh, an interesting Manoeuvre, though you ought to be aware that Scimitars and Falchions can usually be thrust quite effectively. You probably don’t need an armoured gauntlet either, as the lower portion of many (but not all) blades are not sharpened. Seems mechanically okay, though I was surprised to see that Long Swords don’t ordinarily choose Damage Type in your Home Brew game (in mine, Player Characters choose between Slashing and Thrusting from attack to attack) and that they don’t usually have the Parry Descriptor. Decreasing the Damage Die, but allowing it to penetrate overcome 1 point of DR will generally average out to a net 0 gain, but there is some variability from attack to attack.

Lock Weapons [Finesse 6]

Seems fine and probably appropriate for Level 3; there might be some complaint that this only works for Finesse weapons, I have to admit I could imagine it working with a Long Sword as much as a Short Sword.

Long Strike [Polearms 12, Heavy Blades 12, Spears 12]

Seems fine, though I could see it being a favoured tactic of Sneak Attack or Skirmish using Characters. You might want to consider how this works with regard to intervening Characters or Objects (i.e. cover).

Parry [Heavy Blades 3, Light Blades 3]

Okay, first of all I should confess that I am a fan of Opposed Rolled or ‘Active’ Parries, Blocks and Dodges. Ignoring that, this seems like a reasonable alternative. I would make the required Ranks either 2 or 4, but I cannot understand why you are restricting this Manoeuvre to Light and Heavy Blades. Axes, Maces, Staves and a number of other weapons are very well suited for parrying (though a variable Parry Descriptor might be called for to model the degree). Certainly, they can compete in this regard with a Dagger.
Size Bonuses. To be honest, I am not sure which way to jump with regard to this. Whilst I don’t think a Dagger should be capable of effectively parrying a Goliath War Hammer, I wonder whether size modifiers are the right way to go. Consider simply saying that weapons of size X may not be used to parry weapons of size (X + Y). The reason I am saying this is because I don’t consider it very difficult to parry a Long Sword with a Short Sword; a Dagger would be a different matter, but at the moment both Short Sword and Dagger are being lumped together (I think, though admittedly I don’t understand all the intricacies of your sizing system).
The Sunder and Disarm rule is an interesting touch, though I wonder whether in game terms this will simply encourage these types of attacks against Parrying Characters? Have to be careful, I think.
How does Full Parry work? During what Action do you designate Attacks as Parries and at what point do you use the remaining Attacks to Attack?

Pound[Maces/Clubs 11, Picks/Hammers 11]

Interesting, not sure how useful it is likely to be, though.

Rank Fighting [Polearms 3, Spears 3]

A good Manoeuvre this. I might be inclined to have it Auto Scale, rather than require repeat Manoeuvres, as the additional advantage is quite small indeed compared to other potential Manoeuvres.

Riposte [Heavy Blades 6 & Tactical 2, Light Blades 6 & Tactical 2]

Ahah! Finally, a Vitality Point draining Manoeuvre! I really think those are a good idea for this system. I would be inclined to make both this Manoeuvre and Parry available at Combat Technique (Armed) 4, allow Riposte (better named Counter Attack, in my opinion) to be taken multiple times and make using it a Free Action that can only be used once per Riposte Manoeuvre purchased per round. Each time it is taken it should require the appropriate Ranks [i.e. Combat Technique (Armed) 4, 9, 14, 19 and Combat Technique (Tactical) 2, 4, 7, 9 (or 4, 9, 14, 19, depending on whether you think it should apply fully or not – I am leaning towards thinking it should)].

Sure Strike [Melee 9]

An interesting Manoeuvre. Another approach would be to grant +2 AB to the first Iterative Attack per Iteration lost. You should be clear how this interacts with Flurry and Off Hand Attacks [i.e. no Character should be allowed to max out his [I]Power Attack and associated DB increasing, AB decreasing abilities in order to have ten shots at rolling a 20, or should they?

Thrust Strike [Maces/Clubs 4]

Eh? Not sure I understand the benefits of a Thrust Attack. Does the Damage Type change or is that just fluff for –2 DB, +4 AB? Seems kind of powerful to me, especially for Characters who do not rely on Power Attack to cause damage, such as Sneak Attack types.

Touche [Finesse 8]

A good Manoeuvre this and one that, if I am not mistaken, is sorely missing from the current rule set. I would consider even making it available at Level 1 and open to any weapon, rather than just Finesse weapons.

RANGED WEAPON MASTERY MANOEUVRES

Accurate Shot [Ranged 5]

I would make this an Auto Scaling Feat, at Levels 2, 7, 12 and 17, or at Levels 1, 6, 11 and 16. I might let it work at Close Quarters at a reduced rate, i.e. negates 1 point at Level 11, 2 Points at Level 16.

Cover Fire [Projectile 12]

A very interesting Level Nine Manoeuvre. It might be more clearly explained as a Readied Full Round Action. I don’t really think it is necessary to complicate it any further than that, though. If you use Facing, then the cone thing would apply with regard to that, though, you should consider allowing some degree of Free Action use for Turning (I am imagining an Archer at the hub of an L shaped corridor facing enemies coming from each end; it would be cool if he could use a Full Round Readied Action to shoot down his rapidly approaching enemies. The Concentration Check and Defence Penalty are flavourful, but not strictly necessary. The Hide Checks would apply in normal conditions, as well, I would have thought.

Distant Shot [Ranged 2]

Interesting, and somewhat powerful. I think I would be happier if this just increased the Range Increment by 5’ per purchase. Not sure about the appropriate Ranks.

Draw a Bead [Ranged 3]

Another good Manoeuvre. The variant I use in my (A)D&D Home Brew game is ‘make one shot as a Full Round Action to gain +2 AB,’ which increases up to a maximum of +4 AB through a Feat type thing. Saves on having to worry about the Target moving about whilst aiming; such actions also result in the Character losing any Defence Bonus from Dexterity, Dodge or whatever.

Many Shot [Ranged 9]

Pretty much a straight port of the 3.x Many Shot Feat. The only thing I would say is that I despise Many Shot, which is why I created the Rapid Shooting Feat Tree and Mobile Rapid Shooting... seems mechanically fine, though I am having Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves flashbacks...

Point Blank Shot [Ranged 2]

Only +1 AB? Is that an oversight or an intentional change? I much prefer the +1 AB and +1 DB of the default D&D 3.x rules. Not sure I would allow this to be taken multiple times, as written you could do it at Level 1, 2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17 and 20, which makes for a mighty +8 AB. Seems like a lot, even considering the Manoeuvre expenditure, and dropping the +8 DB seems negligible.

Spread Fire [Projectile 7]

Seems like a fine Level 4 Manoeuvre; I wouldn’t even bother with the –4 Attack Penalty after a successful attack, just have the floating Bonus reset to 0.

Storm of Missiles [Projectile 11]

A -4 AB in return for up to 10 Attacks? It seems a bit powerful for Level 8.

DUAL WEAPON MASTERY MANOEUVRES

I see the attraction in this approach, but I think it changes the dynamics too much for me. Two Weapon Fighting and Over Sized Two Weapon Fighting always seemed sufficient to me.

Dual Strike [Dual 10]

Bah. I don’t like this Feat in the normal rules set and I like it even less as a Manoeuvre; seems mechanically fine, but why hamstring Two Weapon Fighting like this? In order to have it compete with Two Handed Fighting it needs to be possible to make two normal attacks as a Standard Action or as part of a Charge Action, in my opinion. Even considering that you have reduced the effectiveness of Two Handed Fighting, I don’t think it is enough to balance these out.
Incidentally, I have recently had an idea about how to deal with Precision Damage in a Two Weapon Fighting context.

EXTRA OFF-HAND STRIKE [Dual 9 & Agility 4]

Hmmn. So, can you not use two One Handed Weapons to Two Weapon Fight at additional Iterations? Seems a bit harsh. Otherwise this is a reasonable port. I think I would have done away with the Dual Skill in favour of straight Agility or Precision Combat Techniques. I am on board with allowing this to match the Iterations of normal attacks, but you need to put in a Base Attack Bonus prerequisite, I think.

PAIRED WEAPON STYLE [Dual 8]

A Level 5 Manoeuvre? It seems too harsh and very specific.

PIN SHIELD [Dual 9]

This seems like you are grasping for Manoeuvres to assign to Combat Technique (Dual); this could have been fitted in practically anywhere. Mechanically, it seems fine.

REVERSING STRIKE [Dual 4]

Interesting, but it is just really a bone thrown for Double Weapons. Might be a little generous in terms of total Ranks and Bonus [i.e. +8 AB at Level 19]. All the same, it’s still not enough to convince me to assign 22 Skill Points, Seven Manoeuvres and Two Feats to.

GENERAL NOTES

I found Combat Technique (Armed) to be the least attractive overall part of the Manoeuvre System, which is a matter of some concern as it is also the lynch pin, being as it can interact with virtually all of the other Combat Techniques. At the heart of the matter, I think, is the use of the 3.x Unearthed Arcana Weapon Proficiency Groups. Whilst I find the idea of Weapon Proficiency Groups appealing, I thought the execution poor in Unearthed Arcana, being almost a direct import of the (A)D&D 2.x Weapon Proficiency Groups. Even so, it is not the Proficiency Groups themselves that are the direct cause of the problem, but rather their adoption as sub groups of this ninth Combat Technique. Whilst all of the other Techniques are self contained, this one branches out to become half a dozen to a score of individual Combat Techniques, each requiring it’s own Skill Points and Gateway Feats. I also think it was a mistake to then add on a Two Weapon Fighting Combat Technique, it just does not sit right.
Obviously, I am viewing this system somewhat out of context, as I am not familiar with the sorts of Characters and Campaigns that make use of these rules, but my view at the present time is that this section is alarmingly cumbersome, and that rather cuts to the heart of the matter for me. My understanding was that this system was intended to ‘flatten’ out many of the more Feat intensive Feat Chains and I do not think that Combat Technique (Armed) contributes to this aim, rather it makes creating a Fighter type Character even more problematic.
What I want to see from the Combat Manoeuvre System is a workable uniform approach to building viable archetypal and non archetypal Characters. I want to be able to take this system and build an effective fantasy Greek Hoplite, Roman Legionary, Viking Warrior, Frankish Knight and every other variation. I want to see it make possible a flattening out of Two Handed, Weapon and Shield and Two Weapon builds.
Okay, I know that is rather getting away from the point, but I have to admit that the main thing the Combat Manoeuvre System makes me want to do is revise it to my own tastes, even things out and make it possible to plug it into ongoing D&D campaigns with a minimum of fuss and maximum benefit.

CONCLUSION

I guess that leaves us with constructing builds, testing the system, attempting to break it and proposing systemic revisions... I don’t know whether you really need the hassle, though, since the system no doubt already works for your game. I guess the question becomes, where do you want to go from here? I am quite happy to continue to propose moderate changes and revisions that help to refine the system as it currently stands and build a few Characters to see how things pan out and address any problem areas. However, if you are interested in more systemic changes, then I am willing to help.

I have really enjoyed reading this system, and it is obvious you have put a lot f thought into it. I think it is definitely on the right track.