Low Op Idea Input

[GutterFace]

So i'm on here with some frequency asking all sorts of nonsense. so to all of you that put up with it and lend a hand, thank you.

I play in a continual, small group of new players where i am the only "veteran", and hence i always end up making something far more OP than the rest of the group, even when i don't mean to. They have almost no experience and don't put in time to look on boards (hey, like this place).

Anyways the point is they tend to be martial characters. we have one psion who has the worst dice luck of any human ever.

so i need a character to "keep up" with them in our low OP setting. I know im going to have to play a dad aka a leader. you know; "hey you should listen at that door, hey you should peek over that wall". and im sick of being the skill monkey that has to do those things.

Here is the breakdown of what i want to do, and be as low as i can get

a Marshal / Warchief (no leadership, or cohort)

im thinking of spending my Feats on draconic auras and maxing out Cha (NO Diplomancy!)....possibly being an Intimidate engine of doom.

do you think this would be ok a group of low op martial characters?

is Warchief even decent for this kind of theme?

[infomatic]

is Warchief even decent for this kind of theme?

Should be, but isn't. Core feature gives enhancement strength boost to followers, which is either a) redundant, b/c melee followers will already have belts of strength or b) unwanted by all non-melee followers.

And even in low-OP, Marshal isn't great over 2.

What about Marshal2/DragonShamanX?

[GutterFace]

ah, we already have a dragon shaman that took a melee route (blech)

mostly the Marshal/Warchief was to gain more CHA ;P and intimidate and tell the group what to do instead of them running directly at things and getting crazy, and by melee i meant no TOB.

my other idea was Death Master / Horned harbinger with corpse crafter feats to make a small contingent of 'muscle mummies' to grapple everything.

[Red Fel]

I would recommend classes that can function on their own, but also boost the party. In particular, mid-tier classes would work well, as they're functional enough to do well, but low-power enough to not outshine the party.

I think a Marshal dip is a great idea, for auras, but Marshal should rarely be taken as more than a dip. I would also advise against Warchief altogether.

Bard is a classic party support character. Bardic Music is really excellent for party-boosting, and there are plenty of feats and ACFs that make it even better. Further, a Bard has decent melee and spellcasting ability, leaving you capable enough to handle yourself in combat, but not so overwhelming that you leave everyone in the dust. Lastly, Bardic Knowledge and 6+Int skill points means that you have the skill checks necessary to do the needed rolls and the knowledge to direct the party, and being a Cha-based caster means you'll be able to operate as the party face with ease. Drop on a Marshal dip for an aura if you want, or maybe Dragon Shaman as Info suggests, and you've got an extremely solid supporter.

Another option is Crusader. (Warblade is a similar option, but is generally far more versatile, and as such might be more powerful than you want.) Crusaders have access to only three disciplines - Devoted Spirit for protecting and spot-healing, Stone Dragon for smashing things, and White Raven. We're looking at the first and third here. Devoted Spirit means that you can protect the party and heal them in a pinch. White Raven means that you can actually give the party extra turns when you need to. This is the epitome of battlefield commanding, and a great way to make partymembers more useful. The Crusader itself is a massive tank of a character, and can be extremely effective, even if not overwhelming, in combat. As an aside, thanks to the Song of the White Raven feat, this meshes comfortably with a Bard build.

The key to helping out a low op party isn't to do things for them, but to make them more effective at doing things for themselves, and present them with more opportunities to do so. A "team leader" combat role, with tricks like auras, Bardic Music, or White Raven Tactics, along with useful skill checks, can do precisely that. Once you've shown the party how effective they can be, they'll (hopefully) gradually become more powerful in their own right, and maybe they'll lean on you a little less.

[GutterFace]

Sadly i agree with you about the bard and crusader, both excellent classes.

we had a bard who had to stop playing and ive had a crusader before so i wanted to try something new. as well as i know i would make both play much better than these players can with their characters. once again i want to play with them but not have them reliant on me (Bard/skills, Crusader/lockdown)

the Marshal idea i had, did have some White Raven mixed in.

Bard i will rule out, as i want to steer clear of casting to win. Crusader might be a far better option.

Marshal 2 /Crusader 5 /Warchief 3 (for fun since i dont know anyone that has used it)

(only to level 10 in this game)

[Captnq]

Do they have computers? Send them my EVD. Suggest to any martial types, "Hey, want some tentacles?" and send them to Augmentation. Encourage them to look up their weapons and see what it is rated. let them read why their choices suck or is awesome.

I basically condensed every handbook I could find on the topics in it into one giant meta handbook.

I mean, seriously, who could not benefit from having his arms chopped off and replaced with mighty arms? 1,000 gp. Can't beat that with a stick.