Maxed out Hitpoint build?

[flamewolf393]

In a pathfinder game with 3.5 content allowed. I am trying to make a tank character that survives through sheer hitpoint pool. I am a damn good roller for hitpoints, so I am usually near max. I am looking for anything to boost hitpoints, races, templates, feats, classes, etc. No real limitations on sources, just no homebrew, supported 3rd party is acceptable.

[Know(Nothing)]

A Necropolitan created in a desecrated area by someone with undead-boosting feats and taking a class that maximizes Charisma(PF undead use Cha for bonus HP) might be a good start.

[Zweisteine]

I have no idea as to the effectiveness of this, especially relative to what other people put up, but I might as well.

Mineral Warrior Arctic Desert Magic-blooded Lesser Ooze Paragenasi, as a race gets +10 constitution (+4 Ooze Paragenasi, +4 Mineral Warrior, +2 Arctic). Desert is tacked on to eliminate Arctic's weakness. Magic-blooded is there because there's really no reason it shouldn't be, because it only does good stuff. You could also add on Dragonborn, but that takes away most of your other racial abilities (the ones that give you LA, for example).
for +1 LA from Mineral Warrior, and no LA for the rest of it, you get:
+2 Str, +10 Con, -2 Int, -4 Wis, -4 Cha
DR 8/adamantine
+3 Natural Armor
Burrow speed 15 (and land speed 30)
Add constitution modifier to damage 1/day
Darkvision 60ft, low-light vision (put Mineral Warrior on top of Magic-blooded, or you loose darkvision)
+1 on saves vs acid (+1 more per five levels)
+4 to survival (actually +4 wilderness lore and +2 Intuit Direction, but editions change things...)
+2 on Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft, can use them untrained
SLAs: 1/day: Ray of frost (CL 1), Grease, Create water, Detect Magic, Nystul's magic aura*, and read magic (CL for those = character level)
*Actually Nystul's Magical Aura and Nystul's Undetectable Aura, but I believe that those two were merged in 3.5.

Downside: If you're a cleric, you must choose a deity with the ooze domain, and take said domain. If none is available, you must choose either earth or water.

Also, some of those things may have changed in PF, which I have little knowledge of.

Make your class one with a big hit die (warblade!), and find prestige classes with similarly large hit dice, and HP-boosting abilities.

Maybe make all of your feats the PF version of toughness (if it stacks).

[Big Fau]

For something less cheesy, Dragonborn Mongrelfolk Crusader 20.

For a 1st level game, consider instead a Daelkyr Half-Blood Crusader 1 with a Brood Leech symbiont and the Stone Power feat.

[Dread_Head]

A Necropolitan created in a desecrated area by someone with undead-boosting feats and taking a class that maximizes Charisma(PF undead use Cha for bonus HP) might be a good start.

This is one of the best ways of boosting HP.

Additionally be a Magic-Blooded Unseelie-Fey Feytouched (Savage progression without taking the 1st level (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a)) before you go Necropolitan. This means you'll start with -2 Str, +4 Dex, -4 Con, -2 Wis, +6 Cha and you'll be ignoring the Con penalty and getting lots of nice bonuses from the extra Cha.

Faerie Mysteries Initiate can be good as well if you want to go Int focused.

If you're not going undead then the Arctic and Dragonborn templates both boost Con by two and are LA+0 so are worth taking.

Also a Psionic class using Share Pain with their Psicrystal and manifesting Vigor regularly can take an awful lot of damage.

[Kazyan]

Hold on, I think Tippy had something sort of like...yeah, here we go. Venerable Elan Psion 20 with Faerie Mysteries Initiate and a bunch of copies of the Psionic Talent Feat. With flaws, you can get 13. Take the Slow trait, too. Int 18 + 3 (venerable) + 5 (levels) + 6 (enhancement item) + 4 (tome or reality revisions) = 36.

HP: 51 (d4 hit dice) + 20 (slow) + 260 (FMI) = 331 HP
Power points: 343 + 130 (bonus) + 2 (elan) + 104 (psionic body) = 579 PP

An Elan can spend a power points to reduce oncoming damage by 2 per point. So, effectively, you've got 331 + 579*2 = 1489 HP here.

You can do this without FMI to tone down the cheese. It will be signifcantly less effective, but a lot more palatable.

[Seer_of_Heart]

You should go archivist 3/walker in the waste 10/whatever 7. Be an elf who has taken FMI. You now get d12 hit dice, I'm assuming you can get other undead health boosting goodies and you get charisma and int to health.

[OldTrees1]

Feytouched (Savage progression without taking the 1st level (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a)) before you go Necropolitan.

Could you point out the quote that lets you take the Savage Progression without taking the first level?

[WhamBamSam]

Venerable Dragonwrought Desert Kobold Whatever 20 with Epic Toughness as every feat after 1st.

Actually, since you only need to be an Old or older dragon for Epic feats, Venerable Half-Dragon Grey Elf Whatever 17 with Faerie Mysteries Initiate and Epic Toughness for every feat thereafter might be better if you can stomach the -6 to Dex (it's a net +0 to Str after Half-Dragon Grey Elf, and Con becomes irrelevant). Certainly with LA buyoff it's the best option.

At high levels without LA buyoff you can do better with Venerable Grey Elf Stuff 5/Dragon Disciple 10/Stuff 5 using Faerie Mysteries Initiate for Int instead of Con to HP, and Chaos Shuffling/PsyRefing all other feats into Epic Toughness after your Dragon Apotheosis.

If you're planning to tank in a real game though, you need more than just to be good at not dying. You also need a way to make things attack you. Also if you're intending to use this in an actual game you would be well advised not to try the level of cheese that's being recommended here, even if it's not going to be all that powerful/effective.

[Dread_Head]

Could you point out the quote that lets you take the Savage Progression without taking the first level?

It's in the intro Savage Progressions article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a).


Characters are not required to complete all the levels of a given template class in uninterrupted succession. For example, a character who takes a level of wereboar could then take a level of fighter and a level of rogue (or any other combination of other class levels) before taking another level of wereboar. A character must still take the first level of wereboar before taking the second, just as with a normal class.

[Setra]

Hold on, I think Tippy had something sort of like...yeah, here we go. Venerable Elan Psion 20 with Faerie Mysteries Initiate and a bunch of copies of the Psionic Talent Feat. With flaws, you can get 13. Take the Slow trait, too. Int 18 + 3 (venerable) + 5 (levels) + 6 (enhancement item) + 4 (tome or reality revisions) = 36.

HP: 51 (d4 hit dice) + 20 (slow) + 260 (FMI) = 331 HP
Power points: 343 + 130 (bonus) + 2 (elan) + 104 (psionic body) = 579 PP

An Elan can spend a power points to reduce oncoming damage by 2 per point. So, effectively, you've got 331 + 579*2 = 1489 HP here.

You can do this without FMI to tone down the cheese. It will be signifcantly less effective, but a lot more palatable.
Wouldn't it be more efficient to use Vigor and Share Pain on your Psicrystal rather than the Elan Racial?

Also with Elan Resilience you can make it 4 per PP instead of 2.

[Emperor Tippy]

Necropolitan (taken after reaching Venerable age) Gray Elf Psion 10/ Crystal Master 10 with Faerie Mysteries Initiate.

You can reach 42 Int at ECL 20 and thus have 19d12+12+(20*16) HP. Minimum of 351, average of 455, maximum of 560.

[OldTrees1]

It's in the intro Savage Progressions article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a).

1) That specifically mentions template classes. Not all Savage Progressions are template classes. Although it is fair to broaden it to all Savage Progressions.

2) That gives permission to not take the 2nd level after the 1st level. Where is the permission to not take any of the levels and still benefit from the racial traits?

[Dread_Head]

1) That specifically mentions template classes. Not all Savage Progressions are template classes. Although it is fair to broaden it to all Savage Progressions.

2) That gives permission to not take the 2nd level after the 1st level. Where is the permission to not take any of the levels and still benefit from the racial traits?

And the Savage Progression for Level Adjusted races (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) says


Thereafter, the character can take levels in her racial class in order to gain her full complement of racial abilities. These racial class levels follow the normal rules for gaining levels in a template class.

The second sentence means the racial classes do follow the rules of the template classes.

In regards to your second point I'm unclear as to how this works with the bit I quoted earlier, you may indeed be correct although it might be possible to argue that taking it as your race is similar to taking the first level.

Also the can in the first sentence could be taken to mean that the further levels in the racial class are optional. Dunno if this flies though.

Basically I'd always assumed that due to the wording of the rules for gaining levels in a template class you could take the base version of any of the races in the Level Adjusted races article and not progress them. As you've pointed out that assumption might have been invalid though.

[OldTrees1]

In regards to your second point I'm unclear as to how this works with the bit I quoted earlier, you may indeed be correct although it might be possible to argue that taking it as your race is similar to taking the first level.

Also the can in the first sentence could be taken to mean that the further levels in the racial class are optional. Dunno if this flies though.

Basically I'd always assumed that due to the wording of the rules for gaining levels in a template class you could take the base version of any of the races in the Level Adjusted races article and not progress them. As you've pointed out that assumption might have been invalid though.

Expanded quote

Racial classes allow a player to create a 1st-level character of a level-adjusted race at the same power level as a 1st-level character of a standard race. Thereafter, the character can take levels in her racial class in order to gain her full complement of racial abilities. These racial class levels follow the normal rules for gaining levels in a template class.

I think this expanded quote supports your position.
The Racial classes allow an ECL 1 character of a LA'd race.
A 1st level character needs to have a HD.
The 1st level of the racial class (after the racial traits) does not have a HD.
Therefore it was intended to be Racial Traits / Base Class 1 followed by Racial Class & Class Levels.
Since the savage progression racial class follows the savage progression rules, you are not obligated to take them consecutively.

[flamewolf393]

Hold on, I think Tippy had something sort of like...yeah, here we go. Venerable Elan Psion 20 with Faerie Mysteries Initiate and a bunch of copies of the Psionic Talent Feat. With flaws, you can get 13. Take the Slow trait, too. Int 18 + 3 (venerable) + 5 (levels) + 6 (enhancement item) + 4 (tome or reality revisions) = 36.

HP: 51 (d4 hit dice) + 20 (slow) + 260 (FMI) = 331 HP
Power points: 343 + 130 (bonus) + 2 (elan) + 104 (psionic body) = 579 PP

An Elan can spend a power points to reduce oncoming damage by 2 per point. So, effectively, you've got 331 + 579*2 = 1489 HP here.

You can do this without FMI to tone down the cheese. It will be signifcantly less effective, but a lot more palatable.

And if I give it the deathless type it now has a d12 hit die without losing the elan racial abilities?

And where do I find the slow trait? I cant find it anywhere.

[Dread_Head]

Probably, it depends on the method of gaining the Deathless type though. How would you be giving it the Deathless type?
Edit: unless you meant undead in which case it again depends upon the method you gain it, Necropolitan lets you keep base traits but can't be applied to Elan due to their Abberation type.

Slow trait is here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#slow), it's from Unearthed Arcana originally.

[Azoth]

You could always go Incarnate with Vitality belt, and a few bloodline levels to raise your ML above normal. Give you a big stem of hitpoints. This of course means not going undead though.

[flamewolf393]

Im talking about the deathless that uses divine intervention to turn you into what is basically a positive energy powered undead. It has all the undead traits except you can still be healed, and good clerics rebuke/control and evil turn/destroy. http://eberronunlimited.wikidot.com/deathless

[Kazyan]

I don't think there's an LA+0 template to become Deathless. However, when you've got 1000+ effective HP and can manifest 9th level powers, I think you've got enough oopmh.

By the way, the reason I'm not advocating Vigor/Share Pain is because it's way more fiddly and cannot be used as a no-strings-attached second HP bar.

[Drachasor]

Be a Wizard or Sorcerer.

Well, make a construct with say 30 hit dice. Then you Polymorph Any Object on it into a Earth Elemental made of the same material. This gives it an Int of 5 and Constitution of 10. It's technically still a Construct since its type doesn't change. Have it take Toughness(PF) and Improved Toughness(3.5). That's about 214 hit points.

For every 5k you spend, you can increase an ability score of a construct by 2. Do this 20 times for constitution for 100k. That's 814 hit points. Do it more if you want.

Make a golem with the Shield Guardian template (I recommend an Adamantine if you can afford it as they can't die). It avoids combat and is just there to double your effective HP.

As for getting into said golem, that's not hard, just use Parasitic Soul (http://www.dxcontent.com/SDB_SpellBlock.asp?SDBID=1431).
Use Spellbane (https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinderogc/magic/all-spells/a/aroden-s-spellbane)to block any spells that could dispel the polymorph or parasitic soul. Though you can improve the switch if any 3.5 material is allowed of course.

So you can have arbitrarily high hit points. Also arbitrarily high dexterity and strength.

There's also a way to get arbitarily high temporary hit points using Ioun Stones, but that's 20k per 5 temporary hit points (refreshes once per day).

[Gabe the Bard]

Depending on which rules you're using, Diehard or an orc's Ferocity ability (which work the same way) could add to your hit point pool by allowing you to go into negative hit points up to your Constitution score in Pathfinder, compared to -10 hit points in 3.5. If it's Pathfinder, you'll probably have maxed Con anyway, so that's a pretty decent bump. There are also some Pathfinder feats that let you not be staggered and take full round actions while at negative hit points.

[Dread_Head]

Im talking about the deathless that uses divine intervention to turn you into what is basically a positive energy powered undead. It has all the undead traits except you can still be healed, and good clerics rebuke/control and evil turn/destroy. http://eberronunlimited.wikidot.com/deathless

I am aware of the Deathless type, though only from BoED didn't know it was in Eberron as well. How do you intend to gain it though, is there a template that gives it to you? If so I'd be interested to find out what that is because I don't know of any. Or is your DM just going to let your character change type? Because if they are thats pretty cool but could end up a little powerful. However you achieve it you'll want to boost your turn resistance so evil clerics can't screw you over that way ignoring your huge HP pool.

[Jeff the Green]

You could always go Incarnate with Vitality belt, and a few bloodline levels to raise your ML above normal. Give you a big stem of hitpoints. This of course means not going undead though.

Why not? You have to burn a feat, but so what?

A venerable magic-blooded unseelie fey half-fey necropolitan grey elf (Int +5, Cha +9 = Int 23 Cha 27, Int 24 Cha 30 with level-up bonuses) incarnate with FMI, Undead Meldshaper, Mind Over Body, Beauty's Bounty, Improved Toughness, Heart of Incarnum, the slow trait, and, hell, toughness six times gives you a flat (7 + 10 [Cha, undead] + 1 [IT] + 6 [VB] + 1 [slow]) * level + 7 [Int, MOB] + 13 [Cha and level-up + 26 [HoI] + 18 [Toughness] = 564 HP at level 20 (buy off the LA from half-fey). Add in the d6 hitdie and you get a mean of 636.5, ±47.5.

Each +2 to Int from items and tomes nets you an additional 21 HP, each +2 to Cha from items nets you 21, and each +1 Charisma from tomes nets you 1 + 21/2. So figure a +6 and +5 to both and you have an additional 215 HP. An Incarnum Focus item gives you another 20 for 235. So 871.5 average. Not [I]quite up to Tippy's/Kazyan's, but has the advantage of actually being HP and not costing all your PP. You can replace the five of the Toughnesses with Devil's Favor, Devil's Stamina, and the three other devil-touched feats available to you for a loss of 5 HP but a gain of some nifty abilities.

All that is ignoring the +100 HP you can get from corpsecrafter/DN/desecrate. And, of course, the NI HP you could get from necrocarnate + an anthill.

Edit:
I don't recommend actually playing this, as you'll have a normal Strength of 0 and Con of -2 unless your PB is above 32. Dex will be a little better at 8, and Wisdom a respectable 13. Also you need some type shenanigans to be both a half-fey and necropolitan. With some buy-off shenanigans you could manage grave-touched ghoul, though (i.e. buy off the LA of half-fey before becoming a grave-touched ghoul and then buy off the gtg LA).

[Person_Man]

Incarnate/Necrocarnate with Heart of Incarnum Feat.

Incarnate gives you Vitality Belt soulmeld, which gives you Meldshaper level * essentia bonus hit points (max essentia capacity is 8, so you can have a maximum of 20 * 8 = 160 bonus hit points). Necrocarnate gives you bonus essentia for 24 hours whenever you kill a living creature. Heart of Incarnum Feat gives you bonus hit points equal to your essentia pool (thus you get bonus hit points equal to your base essentia pool + # of living creatures you've killed in the last 24 hours). Incarnate also grants access to Necrocarnum Weapon soulmeld, which can grant you temporary essentia = essentia invested in the soulmeld for 10 rounds when you make a critical hit. (Thus, you get a maximum of +8 essentia/bonus hit points, though this bonus does not stack with itself with multiple hits).

Incarnate also gives you the Necrocarnum Circlet soulmeld, which gives you an infinitely replacable Necrocarnum Zombie. Thus you have a second meat shield to command every turn.

Incarnate is also otherwise one of the hardest classes to kill. It gets easy access to damage reduction, spell resistance, evasion, energy resistance, deflect arrows (which can be used multiple times per round), miss chance, retributive damage, AC buffs, and the abilities described above.