[3.5] Sorcerer Build Question

[Thurbane]

If you could make a Sorcerer using core (PHB, DMG, MM), Spell Compendium, MIC and any one other book, which extra book would you chose? Note: for this purpose, anything in the SRD which is not in the PHB, DMG or MM is not considered core, nor is UA. Nothing setting specific either.

All feats, PrCs, dips etc. would only be allowed from the above sources (i.e. 6 books including the chosen book).

Character generation would be 25 point buy, and starting at around 7th level.

If it helps, would be for a RHoD game - rest of the party would be Cleric X, Fighter X and Barbarian 1/Warmage X.

Cheers - T

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Player's Guide to Faerun, it has Incantatrix, Mercantile Background, Persistent Spell, and Twin Spell.

BoED would be a close runner-up for Ancestral Relic to do this trick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267805#4).

[Thurbane]

Oh, should have probably pointed out no setting specific books.

But BoED is an option.

[Captnq]

What kind of sorcerer? Ray? Buff? Controller? Support? What?

You know, Arms and Equipment Guide. All that 3.0 crap has the best room for abuse. You have deathwand. Sorcerer's hand, Some really funky armor. All the best rules abuse comes from A&EG.

[nedz]

Decide what theme you want for your Sorcerer
Pick a PrC which matches that theme
Select the book which containeth that PrC
Profit

[Thanatosia]

Races of the Dragon has some great Sorc spells, 2 standouts are Wings of Cover - a lv2 spell that you can cast as an immediate action to break line of effect, and Wings of flurry, a lv4 evocation that does lvd6 FORCE (!) damage with no damage cap (!!)

[Urpriest]

I generally find "you can only use x books" requirements ludicrous. They're not utterly unusable, but you have to throw in so many caveats ("monsters don't count" "rules compendium doesn't count" "you have to use the most recent version even if it's in a different book" "rulings for feat leech/mirror move/fusion/etc.") that it should be obvious there are better ways of restricting builds.

[Thurbane]

I generally find "you can only use x books" requirements ludicrous. They're not utterly unusable, but you have to throw in so many caveats ("monsters don't count" "rules compendium doesn't count" "you have to use the most recent version even if it's in a different book" "rulings for feat leech/mirror move/fusion/etc.") that it should be obvious there are better ways of restricting builds.
Be that as it may, that is the rule in the current campaign. Actually, my group often plays core only, so core+SC+MIC+1 book is actually not bad in the grand scheme of things.

As for type of sorcerer I want, general all around usefulness in and out of combat would be good. The Warmage in the group has blasting mostly covered, and the Cleric is good at buffs.

Current thinking of a LN Human Sorcerer with an Imp improved familiar (just because they are cool and I've never had one). The rest is up in the air.

Note: this is a backup character in case my Favored Soul dies.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Ya got buffs from the cleric and ya got damage from the warmage.

Minionmancer could get in the warmage's way and gives the cleric more targets than he could be reasonably expected to buff.

Perhaps a trickery focus. Illusions and transmutations can be used to manipulate the behavior of enemies and patsies. Battlefield control spells give you something to do in combat and skillfully used illusions and enchantments can make for excellent out of combat utility.

I don't know which book is best to support that theme off the top of my head but it could be a place to start.

[Darth Stabber]

Sandstorm has some really fun spell and prc options. Sandshaper gives you free extra spells known, and walker in the wastes gives you lichdom.

I would probably pick either LM or dragon magic. LM for fell drain, slaymate, and necropolitan. Dragon magic for all the tasty sorcerer only spells. Alternately if you can swing the prereqs you could could go straight to CArc for Iot7FV.

[Solophoenix]

Either Complete Arcane, or PHB II. I love the versatility of a Mage of the Arcane Order. PHB II for speeding up your metamagic.

[Juntao112]

Heroes of Horror - Fiend Blooded.

[Urpriest]

Be that as it may, that is the rule in the current campaign. Actually, my group often plays core only, so core+SC+MIC+1 book is actually not bad in the grand scheme of things.

As for type of sorcerer I want, general all around usefulness in and out of combat would be good. The Warmage in the group has blasting mostly covered, and the Cleric is good at buffs.

Current thinking of a LN Human Sorcerer with an Imp improved familiar (just because they are cool and I've never had one). The rest is up in the air.

Note: this is a backup character in case my Favored Soul dies.

Just putting the point on the table in case it hadn't been made in that context.

Anyway, I'd go with BOED and the Ancestral Relic feat if you want to be Tier 1-esque, but since you're in a game with a Barbarian/Warmage of all things...I'd either go for something thematic, or focus on utility. How reliable/savvy is your Cleric? If they're good at covering the basics I'd go for Heroes of Horror and grab Fiend-Blooded, as others have suggested. If they're likely to fluff around and healbot then Sandstorm for Sandshaper to get a bunch of utility spells.

[Asrrin]

Book of Exalted Deeds to pick up Ancetral Relic, use with the Runestaff in the MiC to get 5 flexible spells "known."

[Yawgmoth]

I'd pick UA just so I could have access to flaws and traits and spelltouched feats.

[DeAnno]

Complete Mage shouldn't be ignored as a possibility, mainly because of tons of generic goodstuff. It has a very strong spell list including the Arcane Fusions and True Casting (which go together), the Heart spells (Heart of Water specifically is very good), some various "Channeled" spells that can be cast as swifts easily (you'll be hurting for swifts more with source restriction), Lightning Leap, and a lot of teleportation and movement tricks in general.

It also has Reserve feats, which are a very big deal in mid to low-OP campaigns, and Stalwart Sorcerer and Abjurant Champion as well (which also sort of go together if you don't want any other PRCs from the sparse selection.)

The nice thing about Complete Mage is it just keeps giving more and more generic goodstuff, rather than relying on a small number of things that are specifically strong. It strikes me as a very good book for this purpose for that reason.

[(Un)Inspired]

Honestly I would go with Frostburn purely for shivering touch. You said that you are Playing RHoD. That campaign is rife with dragons. It's lousy with dragons. I don't want to spoil much for you but here there be dragons. You're gonna cut through them like a warm knife through butter with that one spell.

[DeAnno]

If you were swayed by Shivering Touch, Frostburn is a pretty good pick too. Frost Mage is not particularly good but also not bad, and the Boreal Wind spell is basically a tactical nuke. Flesh to Ice (5th level Flesh to Stone) and Freezing Glance are also both reasonable.

The sad thing about Frostburn for this is a lot of the good options in it are for Druids or slanted for Druids. Snowsight combos, Blizzard, level lower Boreal Wind, lower level Frostfell (giant area shapable save or die with damage and other side effects at EIGHTH LEVEL you say?) etc. If you were building a Druid I'd actually be way more enthusiastic about Frostburn, it lets you just wreck stuff when you get sick of a situation. Blizzard is basically a 5th level spell that says "This fight is dumb I don't want to play anymore all of you can eat 10 feet of snow (and by all of you I also mean you guys over there five football fields away)."

And the Snowsight + Obscuring Snow combo is low level and extremely good. that bears repeating.

[(Un)Inspired]

If you were swayed by Shivering Touch, Frostburn is a pretty good pick too. Frost Mage is not particularly good but also not bad, and the Boreal Wind spell is basically a tactical nuke. Flesh to Ice (5th level Flesh to Stone) and Freezing Glance are also both reasonable.

The sad thing about Frostburn for this is a lot of the good options in it are for Druids or slanted for Druids. Snowsight combos, Blizzard, level lower Boreal Wind, lower level Frostfell (giant area shapable save or die with damage and other side effects at EIGHTH LEVEL you say?) etc. If you were building a Druid I'd actually be way more enthusiastic about Frostburn, it lets you just wreck stuff when you get sick of a situation. Blizzard is basically a 5th level spell that says "This fight is dumb I don't want to play anymore all of you can eat 10 feet of snow."

And the Snowsight + Obscuring Snow combo is low level and extremely good. that bears repeating.

All very true. Frostburn is one of my favorite books for druids. Blizzard is basically taking your ball and going home in spell form. Call avalanche is my favorite blasting spell. But just because its an amazing book for druids doesn't mean that he cant still pick it as a sorcerer.

[DeAnno]

It should also be noted that Races of the Dragon includes Practical Metamagic (probably the only source of reductions outside Arcane Thesis available to you) and Versatile Spellcaster along with all the spell goodies. It would probably be my second pick.

Also, the Races of the Dragon Web Enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) for Kobolds allowing them to get a bonus level of Sorcerer casting (Greater Draconic Rite of Passage) is a pretty huge thing. If RotD allows that in your campaign and you want to be a Kobold it's a big thing to think about.

Clarification:
RotD: Wings of X, Practical Metamagic, Kobold stuff
Dragon Magic: Arcane Spellsurge (!), some other ok spells

Unfortunately they are not one book.

[Thurbane]

Anyway, I'd go with BOED and the Ancestral Relic feat if you want to be Tier 1-esque, but since you're in a game with a Barbarian/Warmage of all things...I'd either go for something thematic, or focus on utility. How reliable/savvy is your Cleric? If they're good at covering the basics I'd go for Heroes of Horror and grab Fiend-Blooded, as others have suggested. If they're likely to fluff around and healbot then Sandstorm for Sandshaper to get a bunch of utility spells.
The cleric is fairly savvy - me and the player of the cleric are at the higher end of our group's op spectrum (but still not particularly high).

Fiend-blooded is tempting.

Honestly I would go with Frostburn purely for shivering touch. You said that you are Playing RHoD. That campaign is rife with dragons. It's lousy with dragons. I don't want to spoil much for you but here there be dragons. You're gonna cut through them like a warm knife through butter with that one spell.
Yep, I have played through RHoD once before, so no spoilers there. :smallwink:

[Callin]

Tome of Magic for Binder and Anima Mage