[3.5] I just realized that I have no idea how to play a psion.

[Totema]

In previous games that I've played in, I was either too new to even know what psionics were, or the DM would not allow psionics in his game, due to them not fitting in thematically. And I unfortunately let this happen to myself when I started DMing my own games. But I've recently become very curious about psionics, and with a little persuasion, my DM allowed me to try out playing a psion.

But I'm a blank slate. I understand the mechanics well enough (I think) but, having never seen one in action, I have no expectations of myself on how I am supposed to play. Could someone give me some pointers?

[Nettlekid]

I would say that Psionics allows for greater flexibility in power level than Vancian casting. By spending just one or two power points on low-level powers throughout the day, a Psion can play almost like a Warlock who spams endless minor effects. Alternatively, a Psion can Nova, spending their per-power limit of power points turn after turn, nuking the foe but leaving themselves drained. The power points you're given work out so that you can manifest about the same number of 1-9 level powers as a Wizard would get 1-9 spells, except that because you can Augment your low level powers, low level powers become like high level powers. Think of it sort of like a Sorcerer with a more efficient Versatile Spellcaster. You could use energy allotted for 17 1st level powers to manifest a 9th level power, or energy allotted for a 6th and 1st level power to manifest three 3rd level powers, because it's all the same point cost.

I've heard that a good tip is to spend 1/4 of your daily PP on routine buffs, 1/4 on post day cleanup (including utility out-of-combat stuff), and the rest in battle as appropriate.

[Captnq]

The Psionomicon is my next project. Working on it right now, actually. Months away from finishing. However, you being new at this is of great interest to me. Please PM me or Post here your experiences and observations. I'll bookmark this thread and check back periodically.

[Pluto!]

Generally, the things the psion does that potentially break the game are the things that let you manifest more than 1 power/round or invest more PP into a power than your character level. Even if you aren't shooting for optimality, those are the abilities you're going to want to keep an eye on if you want to make your psions especially powerful/effective.

And there is no possible problem that some combination of Time Hop, Psionic Minor Creation and Astral Construct cannot solve.

[Totema]

How about the build itself? I thought it would be good to set my ability scores as if I were playing a wizard: very high INT, high CON, and dump STR. Everything else is average.

I'm also not really sure about choosing feats. For instance, since I can freely augment, metapsionics don't seem as important to me as metamagic does to spellcasters. Or am I not seeing something?

I chose clairsentience as my discipline, if that helps.

[Pluto!]

Have you checked out the psion (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1036.0) handbooks (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10238.0)? They're a pretty good place to start.

EDIT:
Metapsionics are actually very important for certain things. Linked Power just opens all sorts of action economy nonsense for very few extra PP, and the blasting-related augments are usually very efficient for characters using psionics to throw damage dice (or ability damage dice for ego whippers). And, like Vancian Casting, Quicken is usually very powerful, (but Linked Power and some built-in augments often overlap its functionality, so it depends a bit on build).

[Nettlekid]

Oh yes, of course, I forgot to mention the tricks and things. I mean surely Psyren will pop in soon enough and unleash a wealth of wisdom, because no one knows more about Psionics than Psyren. But yeah, the fact that by having several Psionic Foci (like with Psicrysal Containment among others), you can do things like manifest Hustled Linked to Twinned Synchronicity (Hustle to regain one of the two Psionic Foci you just spent, recovering the other during your regular move action) to effectively gain two standard actions in exchange for a swift, not counting the standard action you already have during your turn...Yeah, Psionics can get a little wild. If you plan to abuse this, make sure you have a PP recharge method. And a helmet. In real life.

[Snowbluff]

Generally, the things the psion does that potentially break the game are the things that let you manifest more than 1 power/round or invest more PP into a power than your character level. Even if you aren't shooting for optimality, those are the abilities you're going to want to keep an eye on if you want to make your psions especially powerful/effective.

And there is no possible problem that some combination of Time Hop, Psionic Minor Creation and Astral Construct cannot solve.
Remembering that you can't manifest more PP than your level is key. Not doing so is a common mistake I see during play.

How about the build itself? I thought it would be good to set my ability scores as if I were playing a wizard: very high INT, high CON, and dump STR. Everything else is average. Yep.


I'm also not really sure about choosing feats. For instance, since I can freely augment, metapsionics don't seem as important to me as metamagic does to spellcasters. Or am I not seeing something?
Having Persistent Power or Quicken Power will help free up actions in combat. Getting a Psycrystal can be handy for some combos.
Edit: Seconding Linked Power. I'd suggest Psionic Meditation so you can refocus as a move action.

I would suggest reading a handbook. :smallsmile:

[Craft (Cheese)]

With a psion (and other psionics classes in general, except the Erudite) you have to choose what things you want to do and what things you feel yo can safely ignore: You can pick up a few odd utility powers here and there (and switch them around with psychic reformation/psychic chirurgery but personally I feel doing this too often is cheating), but for the most part you want to have a focus and stick wih it. Like Sorcerers, Psions can do anything, but they can't do everything.


I'm also not really sure about choosing feats. For instance, since I can freely augment, metapsionics don't seem as important to me as metamagic does to spellcasters. Or am I not seeing something?

Metapsionic feats are *very* powerful, but generally not as good as metamagic because:

1. It's not as easy to apply to your highest-level powers.

2. Using a metapsionic feat means you have to expend your psionic focus in all but a very few cases, like Persistent Power.

This means that metapsionics is for the most part just nerfed metamagic. You do get some powerful options that spellcasters just don't have good equivalents for though, like Linked Power and Burrowing Power. (PF adds Hustle Power to this list.)

[Pluto!]

Remembering that you can't manifest more PP than your level is key. Not doing so is a common mistake I see during play.True, but the exceptions to that rule are where the psion starts doing very powerful things. Midnight Augmentations, those Quori Shards in MoE, Overchannels, Metapower, Torcs of Power Preservation, Dominant Ideal, etc. etc.

EDIT:
I'm not trying to suggest aiming for the gamebreaking tricks first, and would even recommend avoiding some of the crazy things like those MoE shards, but dabbling in this style of effect is pretty standard optimization for a Psion, who would pretty typically have Overchannel and a Torc to support high-impact manifesting.

[Craft (Cheese)]

And let's not even get into Mind Mage + Psiotheurgist madness...

[Totema]

I've poked through several handbooks, but I've never been able to find anything as comprehensive as, say, Treantmonk's wizard guide. (That's kind of a high standard to set a handbook against though :smalltongue:) But thanks for the advice, I'll admit that I didn't see much value for psionic foci until y'all tipped me off that it can do more than just that Concentration check benefit. :smallbiggrin:

[Endarire]

What is the most powerful psionic power? (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-general/threads/946531) - Covers XPH psionics and perhaps more.

Psionics is a change in the sense of its flexibility. For me, at least, it was easier to spot bad options after reading a power once or twice. Also, like a Wizard or Sorcerer, if you have powerful low-level options (like grease and astral construct), there's less pressure to get your higher level powers perfect.

In my opinion, a Shaper (Metacreativity specialist Psion) is the best, due to extreme versatility and longevity with astral construct and minor creation. Add metamorphosis, schism, and certain other powers to taste (such as with the feat Expanded Knowledge), and you're in very good shape.

[Rubik]

In previous games that I've played in, I was either too new to even know what psionics were, or the DM would not allow psionics in his game, due to them not fitting in thematically.Was the game a zero-magic whatsoever game, then? Because it fits perfectly with most of the fantasy fiction I've read, basically just discounting Jack Vance.

[Totema]

Was the game a zero-magic whatsoever game, then? Because it fits perfectly with most of the fantasy fiction I've read, basically just discounting Jack Vance.
In my DM's setting, psionics were viewed as abominations and were systematically murdered. His in-setting explanation was that their powers were unnatural in they didn't gain them directly from the gods, as divine casters would, or through study of arcane magic, which was strictly regulated by the government.

Honestly I think he's just scared of them, either by not really understanding their mechanics or thinking they're overpowered somehow (which seems silly to me, since he gave my druid a second animal companion :smallconfused:)

[Lord Ruby34]

In my DM's setting, psionics were viewed as abominations and were systematically murdered. His in-setting explanation was that their powers were unnatural in they didn't gain them directly from the gods, as divine casters would, or through study of arcane magic, which was strictly regulated by the government.

Were sorcerers killed too? Because their power also comes from within themselves.

[Totema]

Were sorcerers killed too? Because their power also comes from within themselves.

I think he refluffed them as some kind of arcane savants, and they were sought out for helping in research, so they were fine. Like I said, I think he basically just didn't like how they worked and cobbled together some excuse for them not to exist.

[Telok]

This isn't an OP or TO set up, it's what happened when I first played a psion when the XPH first came out with a DM who had bad experiences with previous D&D psionic crud.

Good feats: Psionic Body (more HP), Psicrystal Affinity (a telepathic translator and inexhaustable guard/scout), Overchannel (after 7th level), Expanded Knowledge, Power Penetration (+4 to punch through power/spell resistance and +8 with the greater version), Boost Construct (only if you use astral constructs).

Hard choice feats: Either keep your psionic focus or use it often. If you're keeping you focus you can take Speed of Thought for more HP and movement speed, otherwise you get to pay the Psionic Meditation and Psicrystal Containment feat tax.

Good Powers:
Level 1: Energy Ray or Crystal Shard, Force Screen, Precognition, Vigor.
Level 2: Elfsight (no seriously), Energy Adaptaion Specified.
Level 3: Body Adjustment/Purification, Darkvision or Touchsight, Dispel Psionics, Telekinetic Force.
Level 4: Almost everything in the XPH is good at this level. Must Haves are Detect Remore Viewing and Psychic Reformation. Avoid Personality Parasite and Telekinetic Maneuver though, those are really bad.
Level 5: Power Resistance, True Seeing.
Level 6: Disintegrate, Remote View Trap.
Level 7: Energy Conversion, Mind Blank, Moment of Prescience.
Level 8: Bend Reality, Greater Teleport.
Level 9: Timeless Body.

Expanded Knowledge/Discipline Powers:
Egotist: Hustle, Revivify, Restoration.
Kineticist: Fiery Discorporation.
Nomad: Dimension Swap, Fly, Teleport Trigger, Time Regression.
Seer: Hypercognition.
Shaper: Astral Construct, Greater Concealing Amphoria, Astral Seed.
Telepath: Hostile Empathic Transfer!

Recommended with reservations:
Mind Thrust: [Mind-Affecxting] tag, Will negates, spell/power resistance Yes. But it's good damage.
Ego Whip: [Mind-Affecxting] tag, Will half, spell/power resistance Yes. But it's Charisma damage.
Identify: 24 hour manifesting time.
Energy <attack>: Just an Energy Substitution blasting spell. Not bad powers but they only do normal damage.
Energy Retort, Empathic Feedback: You need to get hurt for it to work, modest damage.
Correspond: Psychic phone call, may not fit your campaign.
Metamorphosis: It's a polymorph type ability, long and fiddly.
Energy Missile: The target line hurts, plus it's save for half and S/PR Yes.
Dream Travel: Movement that is like teleporting and plane shifting, but apparently unstoppable.
Hypercognition: Very useful and very DM dependent.
Death Urge, Psychic Crush, Fuse Flesh, Decerebrate, Recall Death, Ectoplasmic Cocoon, Crystallize, Brain Lock, Crisis of Breath, Dominate, Crisis of Life: Save or Lose/Die powers.

Last Advice:
1) Don't take a damage power every level, you don't need it. You can easily get by with Energy Ray up to middle levels and then switch it to Crystal Shard after that. Get a decent medium range damage power around 7th level and a long range one by 15th level. You can have more damage powers but you sacrifice your versatility for it.
2) You can lose a manifester level. Most casters hate losing caster levels. it's a bad thing for them. If you suck down a non-manifester level you're on par with a sorcerer for when you get your next power level. If you play from lower levels and aren't a complete pansy you can take a level of Fighter (oh horror, oh sub-optimal) for your 2nd or 3rd level and pick up Combat Expertise and Improved Trip. Wear armor, use a glaive, spam Vigor and tank.
3) Experiment. Once you pick up Psychic Reformation it's a trivial XP cost to re-format your powers and feats. Don't be afraid to have a totally different set of powers and feats before and after level seven.
4) Have fun.

[Sith_Happens]

Fun, often-recommended trick that isn't in this thread yet: You can effectively double the temporary HP from Vigor by sharing it with your Psicrystal and manifesting Share Pain on said Psicrystal.

[Totema]

I've looked over it quite a bit but I'm not sure why the psicrystal/vigor/share pain combo works. Does sharing vigor with the psicrystal change how it works?

[Rubik]

I've looked over it quite a bit but I'm not sure why the psicrystal/vigor/share pain combo works. Does sharing vigor with the psicrystal change how it works?You can share powers with your psicrystal. When you share Vigor, both you and your psicrystal gain +5 temp hp per pp you spend. Then when you manifest Share Pain on it, it takes half of your damage (-8 for its hardness), which is then covered with the temp hp. It effectively doubles your hp and your temp hp because all damage is halved.

[Totema]

You can share powers with your psicrystal. When you share Vigor, both you and your psicrystal gain +5 temp hp per pp you spend. Then when you manifest Share Pain on it, it takes half of your damage (-8 for its hardness), which is then covered with the temp hp. It effectively doubles your hp and your temp hp because all damage is halved.
Ah, I see now. It's simpler than I imagined.

[PowerGamer]

I love psionics, my favorite system by far. I too realized I'd been playing them all wrong when I made my last one using this handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10238.0). Honestly, just do as it says and you will love it.

I built a unbodied telepath/thrallherd and the others in my group are terrified of him as an NPC. He is such a mystery to them they just don't know how to handle him at all

[Zweisteine]

The vital tip: Do not go nova. Ration your power points.

You will feel the urge to spend them all augmenting your powers to utterly annihilate your opponents, but if you do, you'll run out of power points before encounters.

Of course, feel free to nova on the boss, if you can be relatively certain it's the last battle of the day (like you cleared a cave, and the boss is in the back).

[Rubik]

The vital tip: Do not go nova. Ration your power points.

You will feel the urge to spend them all augmenting your powers to utterly annihilate your opponents, but if you do, you'll run out of power points before encounters.

Of course, feel free to nova on the boss, if you can be relatively certain it's the last battle of the day (like you cleared a cave, and the boss is in the back).I like using powers that work well without much augmenting. Share Pain, Expansion, Psionic Minor Creation, and Time Hop all work really well without spending many power points, and they're great for keeping expenditures low.

[Snowbluff]

The vital tip: Do not go nova. Ration your power points.


On other hand, do go nova. All the time. Another common issue with casters in general, is that DMs don't put enough encounters in a day to stretch their resources.

[Segev]

Yeah, tell us what you'd like to do - or even throw some ideas of what you picture yourself doing or conflicting ideas for possible characters - and we'll help you figure out whether you can do it and how to do it best.

Next time I play a psion, I want to toy with the Vigor/Share Pain/Psicrystal combo for being unduly tanky as a d4-HD "caster."

[Rubik]

Yeah, tell us what you'd like to do - or even throw some ideas of what you picture yourself doing or conflicting ideas for possible characters - and we'll help you figure out whether you can do it and how to do it best.

Next time I play a psion, I want to toy with the Vigor/Share Pain/Psicrystal combo for being unduly tanky as a d4-HD "caster."+1 manifester arrows are excellent for helping to keep Extended Share Pains up all day long.

[Segev]

You know, I'm a pretty big power-gamer. But some things strike even me as just plain too cheesy. Manifester arrows are amongst them. ^^;

[Snowbluff]

You know, I'm a pretty big power-gamer. But some things strike even me as just plain too cheesy. Manifester arrows are amongst them. ^^;

Yeah. It's kind of like a Low level wizard with wands of Mnemonic Enhancer. XD

[Rubik]

You know, I'm a pretty big power-gamer. But some things strike even me as just plain too cheesy. Manifester arrows are amongst them. ^^;Alternately, a use-activated item of Share Pain at minimal ML.

[Segev]

Yeah. It's kind of like a Low level wizard with wands of Mnemonic Enhancer. XDNo, it's worse, since it never runs out. Just keep refilling them.

The thing about them isn't their overpowered nature (though they are game-breaking for their potence-to-cost ratio). It's that it's so obviously a gap in intention, it doesn't follow the normal "one shot" rule that makes other cheesy tricks with ammo-is-x50 at least have a fig leaf, and is silly-looking in execution with no cool factor to offset it.

I dunno. Maybe it's just my personal taste. I will tolerate a lot of broken-ness for fun factor, and am willing to exploit things in some cases that are likely WORSE, balance-wise. But that particular trick just...it feels like it not only breaks the game, but is kind-of lame.

[Snowbluff]

It might be an issue, yeah. 50 3rd level spells could last a long time at lower levels, though.


Alternately, a use-activated item of Share Pain at minimal ML.

Rubik, didn't Persist Power exist in the old Psionic Handbook and was never updated? You could just take that and tack on the 8 PP.

[Segev]

Alternately, a use-activated item of Share Pain at minimal ML.This is more the route I'd go if I was really worried about it. (Honestly, I don't think I would be; the pp cost isn't that great compared to how many I have available.)

[Rubik]

Rubik, didn't Persist Power exist in the old Psionic Handbook and was never updated? You could just take that and tack on the 8 PP.Persistent Power existed in the original Psionics Handbook, and Hyperconscious updated it for 3.5. Hyperconscious is 3rd party, but Bruce Cordell wrote it. If anyone doesn't know who he is, go look at the name on the front of the Expanded Psionics Handbook.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

How to play a Psion, you ask? Thoughtfully, with due care and attention, skillful characterization, and an eye for improvisation.

Mechanically, I'd reiterate what Craft (Cheese) has already said, namely, that Psions can do anything, but they can't do everything...with the caveat that, if you have 17th level Psions (or those with 9th level powers by any other means), once your Psion gets Psychic Chirurgery (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicChirurgery.htm), with access to time, XP, and those other manifesters, your Psion can do everything (and if you have 21st level Spell to Power Erudites in your game, they can do even more everything). But that may be inappropriate for your table.

But beyond that, at the core of how you play a Psion? You select and manifest powers. What do you want to do, exactly? Psions can, as we've mentioned, do anything. Mêlée? There are powers for that. Blasting? There are powers for that. Sneaking, Battlefield Control, Buffing, Debuffing, Utility, Deception? There are powers for that. Controlling the very minds of your (not mind-effecting immune) enemies and directing their bodies like puppets?!?! There are powers for that.

So, to really help you with your question, we need more specifics. What do you want your Psion to be able to do, to be good at? Odds are, we can help you find a way to make it work.

_________________

You might find the Psionic Tricks Handbook linked in my sig an interesting read. Not all the tricks are appropriate for all tables (and some may or may not work, though I'm working on fixing issues of that nature).

Additionally, others have linked it, but Saeomon's Virtually No-Nonsense Guide to Psions (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=5343) is a good read. I link it again because the other links I saw were to the old BG boards, which may or may not be around for much longer.