God Charging Monsters.

[KnotKnormal]

In my campaign the gods have gone rogue and started a war with each other. Many mortals have started fighting and killing the gods as a result of the destruction and mayham they caused. The put their strength in monsters as a means to protect themselves.

I guess the question is how do I make something such as a ghost powerful enough to take on an ECL 15 party. How do I make that same party afraid to fight q group of goblins?

[malonkey1]

Well, the simple answer would be to give the ghosts and goblins some PC class levels.

A less simple answer would be applying templates.

[(Un)Inspired]

Make the ghost a goblin. Game. Set. Match.

[Emperor Tippy]

...what monsters are you using to kill gods, and how weak and/or badly optimized are these gods?

Because there are maybe half a dozen officially published non unique monsters that are a realistic threat to even the most vanilla published deities, assuming that the monsters can even get into a straight fight in the first place.

Even moderate optimization deities will utterly school pretty much any published monster or creature, and at higher optimization levels nothing can kill the more powerful deities except for an even more powerful deity.

To make stuff more dangerous you just pour on class levels but that has its own issues.

[Grizzled Gryphon]

I guess the question is how do I make something such as a ghost powerful enough to take on an ECL 15 party. How do I make that same party afraid to fight q group of goblins?

Ghost is already a template; just add it to a level 16 optimized Wizard, Druid, or Cleric, and there ya go.

As for the Goblins, class levels are the answer. A group of goblins straight from the MM would have to be HUGE for the players to care. It would literally take an army of them to give the players pause.

But, 4 goblins that are level 15 in some class or another is a whole different ball game.

[Undertucker]

The Monster of Legend template is a good step to making legendary monsters.

The Titanic template is good for making something that was small and weak really big and a bit tougher.

Combine the two for monsters sent by the deities to cause havoc.

[Grizzled Gryphon]

Paragon Creature + Legendary Creature should make for some scary critters. not sure if even they are tough enough to take on a god, but groups of them should be rather potent. Paragon suggests that it is the only one of its kinds, but you could refluff that to be groups, I suppose.

[sideswipe]

there are two ways to look at gods that could work; they are only as powerful as the followers believe or they gain more power from more worshippers.

in one condition if the worshippers no longer believe in the deities they lose substantial power. this could be from deities they believe protect them turning on them.

in the other, if the mortals are actually contemplating fighting them, they they must believe that they have a chance of winning. therefore the deities lose power from them as they believe them weaker.

in both instances there will always be devout worshippers and the gods themselves would have a very substantial personal power. (think epic level but with no god like powers.)
they would probably lose all or at least nearly all of their divine ranks too.

so if you could imagine (if your using the D&D pantheon) boccob losing all his divine godly powers and becoming an epic level wizard/ cleric. but now with no ability to time stop at will or alter reality because he is bored.

[KnotKnormal]

...what monsters are you using to kill gods, and how weak and/or badly optimized are these gods?

Because there are maybe half a dozen officially published non unique monsters that are a realistic threat to even the most vanilla published deities, assuming that the monsters can even get into a straight fight in the first place.

Even moderate optimization deities will utterly school pretty much any published monster or creature, and at higher optimization levels nothing can kill the more powerful deities except for an even more powerful deity.

To make stuff more dangerous you just pour on class levels but that has its own issues.

Sorry if I worded that bad... The players are killing the gods... The gods are using monsters to protect themselves due to the lack of followers. My question how do I "god charge" monsters in an attempt to stave off the party. The deities will be straight out of the deities and demigods book. + 3 homemade gods to satisfy needs of the BBEG, BBGG, and the prologue.

[Slipperychicken]

My question how do I "god charge" monsters in an attempt to stave off the party. The deities will be straight out of the deities and demigods book. + 3 homemade gods to satisfy needs of the BBEG, BBGG, and the prologue.

I think you're looking for the rules for "Divine Proxies (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineMinions.htm#proxies)".


Proxies
A divine proxy speaks and acts on behalf of the divine being. When the demand for a deity’s presence is too high, the deity may use proxies.

Proxies are divine minions invested with a small portion of the deity’s power. A deity may invest 1 rank of its power (reducing its divine rank accordingly) in a single servant for as long as the deity chooses. The minion must be physically present for the deity to perform the investiture. While so invested, the proxy gains any salient divine abilities held by the patron deity as well as the powers and abilities of a rank 1 demigod. Without the requisite ability scores or divine ranks, the proxy may not be able to use all those powers and abilities. A deity may have more than one proxy, but it must lose 1 divine rank for each proxy it invests. A deity can retrieve a single divine rank as a standard action, and doing so does not require the physical presence of the proxy.

This is literally placing the gods' power into the subject creature, supercharging it with divine energy and giving it all the powers of a rank 1 demigod. The deity can recall this power as it wishes, of course.

[SimonMoon6]

Have the first hit knock off a character's armor, leaving them in just their comical boxers. Then, the second hit kills them.

I think we've got the makings of a great video game here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghosts_and_Goblins

[KnotKnormal]

I think you're looking for the rules for "Divine Proxies (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineMinions.htm#proxies)".



This is literally placing the gods' power into the subject creature, supercharging it with divine energy and giving it all the powers of a rank 1 demigod. The deity can recall this power as it wishes, of course.

This is exactly what I'm looking for... is this in a book or home brew? would love to get the exact guidelines on this

[Slipperychicken]

This is exactly what I'm looking for... is this in a book or home brew? would love to get the exact guidelines on this

Everything in the d20SRD is in a real, official dnd 3.5 book.

That exact entry (for Proxies) is in Deities and Demigods, page 54. The rules for divine ranks are on page 25 of the same book, and they're copy-pasted here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#divineCharacteristics).

[KnotKnormal]

Everything in the d20SRD is in a real, official dnd 3.5 book.

That exact entry (for Proxies) is in Deities and Demigods, page 54. The rules for divine ranks are on page 25 of the same book, and they're copy-pasted here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#divineCharacteristics).

ah... i thought the SRD was culmination of all published and unpublished works.

and thank you for finding the book and page numbers for me.

you've been a huge help.

[Red Fel]

So, you want monsters to be a threat to the players?

They don't need class levels or divine power for that.

Just have someone send in Tucker's Goblins (http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/).

If your players are accustomed to battles they can steamroll over with raw power, cripple and humble them with enemies who use tactics. Make them weep when a band of well-organized low-level enemies send them packing like terrified children.

Happy hunting.

[KnotKnormal]

So, you want monsters to be a threat to the players?

They don't need class levels or divine power for that.

Just have someone send in Tucker's Goblins (http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/).

If your players are accustomed to battles they can steamroll over with raw power, cripple and humble them with enemies who use tactics. Make them weep when a band of well-organized low-level enemies send them packing like terrified children.

Happy hunting.

I love the idea of making little things deadly by making them smarter. But it seamed that a lot of the chaos there had stemmed from prior knowledge of the kobolds. how do I instill in my party just how dangerous something is with out having any previous encounters with them? NPC description only do so much, plus it's hard to have a group of epic level NPCs say he got their asses handed to them by goblins with out sounding completely worthless.

[Red Fel]

I love the idea of making little things deadly by making them smarter. But it seamed that a lot of the chaos there had stemmed from prior knowledge of the kobolds. how do I instill in my party just how dangerous something is with out having any previous encounters with them? NPC description only do so much, plus it's hard to have a group of epic level NPCs say he got their asses handed to them by goblins with out sounding completely worthless.

The chaos didn't stem from the party knowing about the kobolds. The chaos stemmed from the kobolds themselves. The party was simply aware of what was coming.

Have a gauntlet scenario. Players confront a deity - that's what you say they're doing, right? Make it Kurtulmak, or a trickster deity - someone whose very presence should make the players beware of tricks or traps. Have him smirk and tell the players he'll be waiting for them beyond a gauntlet or cave or labyrinth or something. Then he reveals the entrance and poofs.

If the players charge in heedlessly, they deserve exactly what they get. Roasted alive by clever lizards.

But by setting it up as a trap by a deity, it's not so utterly humiliating when they lose. They didn't randomly stumble into a den of low-level monsters who handed their butts to them - they attempted to out-trick a deity of traps, and failed. There's not as much shame in that.