Baleful Transposition and you!

[GutterFace]

Thoughts, ideas, shenanigans!

i need idea on how to make this a great spell.

give me your craziest!

[Snowbluff]

Familiar moves.

Familiar uses wand of Baleful Transposition, and swaps with master.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Familiar moves.

Familiar uses wand of Baleful Transposition, and swaps with master.

Are you thinking benign (transposition)? Baleful is the one that you can swap enemies around.

I like to set up ambushes with the meat-shield type bosses. Arrange your own meatshields around a summon, then swap the BBEG with the summon. Hilarity ensues.

[Snowbluff]

Are you thinking benign (transposition)? Baleful is the one that you can swap enemies around.

Nope. I can tell the spells apart, but I use them both the same way. :smalltongue:

[RollynT.Glal]

What is the make-up of the party in which it will be used? Is there a particular theme of enemies against which it will be used or is it going to be used against a relatively random set of monsters in a "World's Largest DungeonTM"?

These are just a few of the things that must be considered in order to make Baleful Transposition particularly useful. Remember that unlike its Benign predecessor Baleful Transposition can be used against unwilling creatures. Fortunately it targets Will which is typically the weakest save for most opponents. Personally I would save all familiar-self transpositions for the Benign version as it is a spell slot lower.

Here are some ideas for Baleful Transposition (usefulness may vary):
The Killbox: Stand behind your DPS/Tank while they are flanked by roguish-types. Use Baleful Transposition targeting your DPS/Tank and a member of the enemy forces (preferably one of the closer ones so your ally doesn't get trapped). Have the flankers shank the monster and have the teleported ally return to the group or begin fighting the likely flat-footed enemy forces.

The Hard Fall: Takes some precise timing (made easy with readied actions) and a little bit more luck than the killbox. Have an archer-focused fly-able ally rush over to a hazardous location with ammo fastened with lengths of twine to the archer's belt. Ready your casting of Baleful Transposition to go off when the archer hits a target of large or smaller size with an arrow. Once teleported have your ally cut the twine. Can be done (though not advisable due to the consequences of failure) with a jump check instead of fly.

The Rigged Race: Participate in a race of some kind; life-and-death, recreational, professional sport shouldn't matter. Be sure to not fall 100+10 ft/CL behind the leader. Switch places with the leader and win.

The Bait Carriage: When attempting to catch a thief and/or tasked with protecting a valuable take reasonable but not extraordinary precautions. Instead construct a strong hidden cage and place an ally inside. Ready an action to cast the spell just before the thief takes the "trapped" goods targeting them and your caged ally.

[Dalebert]

Range is 25 ft + 5 ft/CL

[Douglas]

Range is 25 ft + 5 ft/CL
That's not what my Spell Compendium says. Baleful Transposition has a range of Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level).

[Umbranar]

I love this spell, especially against mounted foes!

1: when facing one mounted enemy, swap mount and rider
2: when facing two or more, target a mount and a rider, put one mount on top of the other and one rider on top of another.

[GutterFace]

I love this spell, especially against mounted foes!

1: when facing one mounted enemy, swap mount and rider
2: when facing two or more, target a mount and a rider, put one mount on top of the other and one rider on top of another.

This is a mix of hilarity and genius.

[GutterFace]

What is the make-up of the party in which it will be used? Is there a particular theme of enemies against which it will be used or is it going to be used against a relatively random set of monsters in a "World's Largest DungeonTM"?

These are just a few of the things that must be considered in order to make Baleful Transposition particularly useful. Remember that unlike its Benign predecessor Baleful Transposition can be used against unwilling creatures. Fortunately it targets Will which is typically the weakest save for most opponents. Personally I would save all familiar-self transpositions for the Benign version as it is a spell slot lower.

Here are some ideas for Baleful Transposition (usefulness may vary):
The Killbox: Stand behind your DPS/Tank while they are flanked by roguish-types. Use Baleful Transposition targeting your DPS/Tank and a member of the enemy forces (preferably one of the closer ones so your ally doesn't get trapped). Have the flankers shank the monster and have the teleported ally return to the group or begin fighting the likely flat-footed enemy forces.

The Hard Fall: Takes some precise timing (made easy with readied actions) and a little bit more luck than the killbox. Have an archer-focused fly-able ally rush over to a hazardous location with ammo fastened with lengths of twine to the archer's belt. Ready your casting of Baleful Transposition to go off when the archer hits a target of large or smaller size with an arrow. Once teleported have your ally cut the twine. Can be done (though not advisable due to the consequences of failure) with a jump check instead of fly.

The Rigged Race: Participate in a race of some kind; life-and-death, recreational, professional sport shouldn't matter. Be sure to not fall 100+10 ft/CL behind the leader. Switch places with the leader and win.

The Bait Carriage: When attempting to catch a thief and/or tasked with protecting a valuable take reasonable but not extraordinary precautions. Instead construct a strong hidden cage and place an ally inside. Ready an action to cast the spell just before the thief takes the "trapped" goods targeting them and your caged ally.

Perfect this is the good stuff i am looking for. also always thought Baleful was good for trapsmith's (in general). lay a trap, switch you and the baddie. pow.

[Nightraiderx]

1. be a wizard with fly.
2. fly up high/or over cliff
3. baleful transposition with grounded enemy
4. sip drink as enemy falls to their death

[Segev]

Alter Self to look like enemy commander, preferably while hidden.

Baleful Transposition to swap places with him.

When the "imposter" shows up to pathetically try to confuse "your" minions, order his immediate execution. Bonus points if you can do this while hovering over something like a pit of tar or a thick mud bank or something so that said commander pops out coated in an identity-muddying substance (pun completely intended). Then you can order the "monster" as the next target to slay before it can say anything.

When facing tactics-using foes, Baleful Transposition can straight-forwardly be used to swap their high-damage melee tank on the front lines with their squishy even-higher-damage ranged type of person (assuming you aren't trying to swap a wizard in; wizards have an annoyingly high will save).

[Chronos]

Quoth RollynT.Glal:

The Hard Fall: Takes some precise timing (made easy with readied actions) and a little bit more luck than the killbox. Have an archer-focused fly-able ally rush over to a hazardous location with ammo fastened with lengths of twine to the archer's belt. Ready your casting of Baleful Transposition to go off when the archer hits a target of large or smaller size with an arrow. Once teleported have your ally cut the twine. Can be done (though not advisable due to the consequences of failure) with a jump check instead of fly.
OK, I understand the basics of swapping an enemy with a flyer, but I don't understand what you're getting at with the arrows and twine.

[bekeleven]

OK, I understand the basics of swapping an enemy with a flyer, but I don't understand what you're getting at with the arrows and twine.

Trying to get around the baleful transposition spell description, which apparently nobody else read, that says the subjects must be connected by the ground or a solid object.

Unfortunately, Both the conjuration school and the spell itself explicitly disallow midair swaps.


A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

[Dalebert]

That's not what my Spell Compendium says. Baleful Transposition has a range of Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level).

Ah. There are two versions on dndtools.eu and I was looking at the wrong one. That makes the 2nd level version significantly better even if you're switching allies. That helps me understand Snowbluff's reasoning for using it as the cost difference between a 1st level spell wand and a 2nd level spell wand is significant.

[Nightraiderx]

-Fix to fall trick-

1. Be a wizard.
2. Fly as high as you can within range of spell.
3. Cast Tenser's Floating Disk.
4. Baleful Transposition with enemy.
5. Leave enemy on disk to isolate or dispell and have him fall to his doom.

-Force wall prison trick-
1. cast force wall and enclose self within.
2. Baleful transposition enemy.
3. Also cast spell that allows you to teleport as a move action for the duration.
4. take move action back into forcewall and repeat.

Second one is kind of risky but it makes gathering enemies too far spread out to force wall all of them in easier.

[Chronos]

Sure, if you're getting it from a wand. A sorcerer, though, might want to take only the more versatile of the two, even if it is higher level.

[Dalebert]

2: when facing two or more, target a mount and a rider, put one mount on top of the other and one rider on top of another.

#1 would work but not #2 because both targets are not connected by the ground or a solid object. I think a saddle would qualify for #1.


-Fix to fall trick-

1. Be a wizard.
2. Fly as high as you can within range of spell.
3. Cast Tenser's Floating Disk.
4. Baleful Transposition with enemy.
5. Leave enemy on disk to isolate or dispell and have him fall to his doom.


This doesn't work for reasons already addressed, i.e. the two targets are not connected by the ground or a solid object. The other reason it doesn't work is because the disk floats 3 feet above the ground at all times.

[Nightraiderx]

Ah, leave it to Wizards to actually nerf a spell lol.

Well, what about baleful transposition from underwater and or in lava?

Standing under solid ground at the bottom or a lake or volcano and using it?

[Dalebert]

Ah, leave it to Wizards to actually nerf a spell lol.

What spell are you referring to?


Well, what about baleful transposition from underwater and or in lava?

Standing under solid ground at the bottom or a lake or volcano and using it?

The wording is very specific. They have to be connected by "the ground" or "a solid object". So if you're on the ground at the bottom of a lake and they're also on the ground but above water (or above lava), as long as they're in range, that should work.

[Nightraiderx]

I originally meant Baleful Transposition but it would've been cool to use tenser's floating disk as platforms. It's like when I found out flaming sphere stopped when it met an enemy and couldn't hit multiple foes.

[Guylux]

Thoughts, ideas, shenanigans!

i need idea on how to make this a great spell.

give me your craziest!

I am currently in a campaign as a wizard with a familiar with spider climb and 60 speed. Do you think I can run the familair up on the ceiling and swap it with the baddie?

[Gemini476]

I am currently in a campaign as a wizard with a familiar with spider climb and 60 speed. Do you think I can run the familair up on the ceiling and swap it with the baddie?
Nope, as posted earlier in this thread.

Conjuration
[...]
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.
Note that this also means that, for instance, you can't have a rat familiar crawl into a tiny hole in the wall and then teleport an ogre inside the way-too-small hole.
One use that hasn't been mentioned yet is, well, just disrupting enemy formations. Have they got a tanky melee dude causing trouble for you while their archer stands back and pelts you with arrows from safety? Not any more they don't, now the tank is having to jog back from the elevated platform while the archer is desperately trying to disengage from the front lines.

Also, that "swap the locations of your tank and someone you want to kill" trick? Have you considered just swapping the locations of the person you want to kill and a mundane rat you pulled out of a bag? No need to put anyone important in trouble when, well, it works on anyone.

Other scenarios... well, have you ever had to worry about a guard in a watchtower? Not anymore you don't, since they're now right beside your Barbarian.

It's also pretty fantastic in a prison situation, of course, since you could put yourself outside the cage and the wannabe guard inside it. A neat trick for a fourth-level Sorcerer to consider, perhaps.
It can also just serve as a less literal get-out-of-jail-free card if you use it to, well, get yourself out of a bad situation (e.g. a squishy sorcerer adjacent to the bad guys) or otherwise teleport around. It can do everything Benign transposition can do, and it's also essentially just a more restrictive Dimension Door that's available two spell levels lower.

(Note that line of effect requires a one-square-foot hole, though, and I'm not entirely sure how that interacts with nets and cages.)

[Jay R]

Swap the enemy archer (far away with cover) with the enemy melee fighter, engaged with the party's martials.

[You can do the same with their wizard and melee fighter, but wizards are more likely to make their save.

Swap the enemy archer behind cover with your archer, currently in the middle of your martials.

[truemane]

Metamagic Mod: Thread Necromancy