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Enoch_6211
2007-01-21, 12:12 AM
I'm playing in a homebrew campaign on a map that requires a lot of open combat. The problem is, our team doesn't have a fighter. The party consists of a Human Sorceror, Level 5; a Human Rogue (me), Level 5, and a Dwarven Cleric, Level 5. The cleric isn't SO bad off, but when he built the character, his mindset was more on defense than offense (he has two large shields that he uses to block the sorceror and I while we range attack). Party dynamics was more of an afterthought when it came to the team. Now its left up to me to be the big damage dealer. I am for sure going to take another level next time we play, and I'm looking for ideas as to what direction I should head. As it stands, I will be taking a level of fighter and getting WP(longsword). Does anyone have any better ideas?

Thanks in advance.

Matthew
2007-01-21, 08:34 AM
Has the game been House Ruled so that he derives Armour Class from both Shields?

A lot depends on the specifics of your build and any House Rules in play. If you could post them, it would be helpful.

Captain van der Decken
2007-01-21, 08:48 AM
What books do you have access to?

InaVegt
2007-01-21, 08:51 AM
Wait, the melee class is supposed to be the damage dealer? I always though they were just there to take the hits for the spellcasters, you know, the ones that matter. And of course they can mop em up after the wizard or sorcerer has cast his safe or be screwed spells (which coincidentally exist at every spell level except 0th). But you're doing something wrong if a rogue/fighter has to do all the killing. The rogue gets rid of the traps, the fighter gets hit, the arcane spellcaster gets rid of the enemies and the cleric makes sure everyone is and keeps capable of doing their job.

Were-Sandwich
2007-01-21, 09:03 AM
oooh, burned.

Ikkitosen
2007-01-21, 09:07 AM
Invisible Blade for a cool melee rogue, although you probably don't have the pre-reqs if you haven't planned for it. Oh, and you should negotiate different pre-reqs for the class since they're wrong and they suck.

Captain van der Decken
2007-01-21, 09:12 AM
So technically, the Cleric is the damage dealer.

Anyway, I'd suggest a Warblade. Better idea than Fighter.

Shazzbaa
2007-01-21, 09:50 AM
The rogue gets rid of the traps, the fighter gets hit, the arcane spellcaster gets rid of the enemies and the cleric makes sure everyone is and keeps capable of doing their job.

...

All I'm gonna say is that not every party has all the traditional roles filled. Sometimes people just make characters without worrying about what party rolls could use filling. Case in point, my current group started out with a fighter, paladin, barbarian, and cleric. We had no arcane caster and no rogue. Telling us what our non-existant arcane caster and rogue are supposed to be doing would not have helped us much.

As far as I can see, this, with a party of three, is another such case, where traditional party roles are not necessarily going to exist the traditional way.

Were-Sandwich
2007-01-21, 09:58 AM
pst. I think she was being cynical/sarcastic.

InaVegt
2007-01-21, 10:01 AM
Still, in a party with an arcane caster you should not have the rogue multiclass to fighter to deal damage, my suggestion would be that the cleric starts to use some CoDzilla tactics to take the role of meatshield as well, clerics are better suited to melee combat than rogue/fighter multiclasses, probably even better than single class fighters, a three man party is best of if they lack a proper meatshield, since a good build cleric can fill in easily. And if the sorcerer doesn't get rid if the enemies, even though the party has one, the sorcerer is doing something wrong.

Matthew
2007-01-21, 10:58 AM
That's just because Clerics are uber.

A multi class Fighter Rogue should have no problem contributing as a Fighter. He won't be as good as a straight Fighter, but he can do stuff the Fighter can't as well.

InaVegt
2007-01-21, 11:00 AM
I didn't say that, what I'm saying is that there's something wrong with the fighter as damage dealer. Fighters exist to protect the spellcasters and to get rid of enemies who like antimagic to much.

Matthew
2007-01-21, 11:01 AM
That's a pretty narrow view. I don't agree.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-21, 11:13 AM
The Dread Commando is actually a fairly decent prestige class for a rogue that sees a lot of combat. You keep up with your sneak attack with sudden strike, your whole party gets an initiative bonus (up to a +5 for everybody, which is very awesome), you can wear better armor, you can sneak faster without penalty, you gain a full BAB, and you're only dropping to 6 skill points a level. Not to mention it's only 5 levels altogether to get that stuff. It's in the "Heroes of Battle" book, an often-neglected supplement for larger combat situations. Sounds like it could be very useful for you.

Captain van der Decken
2007-01-21, 11:41 AM
That's a pretty narrow view. I don't agree.

Well, the general consensus seems to be pure casters can do better at beating enemies.

Dread Commando sounds pretty good for what you need.

Matthew
2007-01-21, 11:44 AM
Sure, but the uberness of Full Spell Casters past a certain level doesn't mean that the Fighter's role is therefore 'protect the Caster'.

Captain van der Decken
2007-01-21, 11:47 AM
True. I normally see the casters as the support. Fighters fight, and the casters help by disabling enemies.

Although, Cleric should use lots of buffs and fight. Heal bot is no fun.

the_tick_rules
2007-01-21, 12:13 PM
well at level 5 a spell caster doesn't have enough magical arsenal to kill everything himself. everyone talks about 20th level fighters as useless. the early levels are when they are most useful. a 1st level wizard with only a couple spells that can mildly hurt and an ac of like 13 and can be killed in a sinlge hit needs someone to shield him. as for actual ideas, maybe play 2 characters, having an all fighter show up.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-21, 12:26 PM
Heroes of Battle is so underappreciated. It doesn't give very good information for small adventuring parties so much, but if used in any situation where you've got more then 15 PC's and allies in a fight, it's highly useful. The War Weaver prestige class in particular is a very nice dip for a PC wizard/cleric with lots of good party buffs. What's better then casting giant size on yourself? Casting it, bull's strength, protection from energy, and greater invisibility all at the same time onto every ally within close range as a move action. It's the best team-based prestige class I've seen in a while.

Captain van der Decken
2007-01-21, 12:57 PM
well at level 5 a spell caster doesn't have enough magical arsenal to kill everything himself. everyone talks about 20th level fighters as useless. the early levels are when they are most useful. a 1st level wizard with only a couple spells that can mildly hurt and an ac of like 13 and can be killed in a sinlge hit needs someone to shield him. as for actual ideas, maybe play 2 characters, having an all fighter show up.

Well, I played a gnome illusionist once.
Level 1. Tank gets dropped to 1 hp by big bad barbarian orc.

Colour spray. Solved the problem immediately.

You're right about needing a sheild though.
Anyway, warforged barbarian is probably best at low levels.

Enoch_6211
2007-01-21, 04:02 PM
As far as party logic goes... we have almost none. Our spell caster is only level 5 and his big spells are MM and Scorching Ray. As he gets higher levels, yes, he will be doing a lot of fighting. As for right now, I need to be the one picking up the slack. Ikkitosan, what book is Invisible Blade in? Gezina, I am defintately not a meat wall. My job is sneak, steal, sell, repeat. Now I have to add "kick NPC enemy butt" to my repitoire and I'm looking for the best and quickest way to do that. VEinstrauss, I don't have access to that book. Its a great idea though... keep this stuff coming, guys. Its great.

Ikkitosen
2007-01-21, 04:20 PM
Invisible Blade is in Complete Warrior. It's a 5-level class, which adds Sneak Attack with dagger-type weapons only, full BAB, Int to AC, Bleeding Wounds and the ability to Feint more easily.

Maclav
2007-01-21, 04:40 PM
his big spells are MM and Scorching Ray. As he gets higher levels,

And now we know why your arcane caster isn't taking up the slack. :)

Enoch_6211
2007-01-22, 12:52 AM
And now we know why your arcane caster isn't taking up the slack. :)

he really didn't do the best job of picking effective offensive skills whilst character building. he has some nice cantrips though... lol.