Starting druid

[Dr. Azkur]

What are good feats for a 3rd level elf druid going straight for 20?
Thanks in advance.

PD: I know nothing about druids :smallconfused:

[Darrin]

What are good feats for a 3rd level elf druid going straight for 20?
Thanks in advance.


Depends on what sort of role you want to play. If you're going to be summoning a lot, Spell Focus: Conjuration (1st) and Augment Summoning (3rd). If you want to focus on battlefield control and metamagic, I like Extend Spell/Sudden Extend (1st) then Sculpt Spell (3rd).



PD: I know nothing about druids :smallconfused:

I cast summon druid's ally: eggynack!

[Grams]

Spellbound Companion effectively doubles the power of many of your spells.

Greenbound Summoning is Extremely powerful.

Augment Summoning costs a wasted feat and only adds a couple points to hit and damage and a small amount of health. Not worth it in my book.

Ashbound Summoning doubles the duration of your summons.

Nature Spell at 6 is a must.

Exaulted Companion/Exaulted Wildshape are two good feats if you are a Good Character. And qualify your companion for Vow of Poverty.

[Karmea]

Here's a handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=940).

[(Un)Inspired]

I'd like to second greenbound summoning. Not only is it mechanically effective, but it's also Incredibly cool thematically for a druid.

[eggynack]

I cast summon druid's ally: eggynack!
Fwashoom! Yeah, the list thus far presented seems pretty decent. Un-fwashoom! (You see, it's because the duration of summon nature's ally is rather short at these levels. I'll second ashbound, to mitigate this issue.)

Anyways, I think the only unmentioned druid feats that are reasonable are craft wondrous item and extend spell. The former is good if you're in a game with limited access to a magic mart, because druids only really work well with a pretty specific subset of the magic item list, and everything else is mediocre. This is especially true because of wilding clasps (MIC, 190), and because optimal druid item strategy often demands placing multiple abilities on a single item. The latter is good because druids have a solid array of long term buffs, including some days/level stuff like the primal line (DrM, 71-72), as well as the ever-fancy creeping cold (SpC, 55). I'd advise picking up a lesser rod of extend for the purpose instead, and maybe a normal rod later on, but either way extension is a solid option. Another neat option might be getting natural bond (CAdv, 111) at 3rd level, which is utterly useless at that point, but it lets you immediately advance your companion at 4th level. Fancy fleshraker (MM III, 40) action from that point forward.

Anyway, if you truly seek druid success, that stuff I just said isn't all that important. Druids are all about spells, and cool long term build stuff can only get you so far. At 3rd level, spells aren't that difficult. You mostly want some quantity of entangle and impeding stones (City, 66) in your first level slots, maybe kelpstrand (SpC, 132), blinding spittle (SpC, 32), or mass snake's swiftness (SpC, 193) for your second level slots. You'll also want a mix of detect magic, cure minor wounds, and create water for your zeroth's. Past that, it really depends on the specific stuff you want to do, and the class can accommodate a lot of specific stuff. I could also PM over the handbook I've been working on (now at 53,871 words) if you desire such a thing. It has a pretty ridiculous quantity of information about spell stuff, and some lesser quantity of information about everything else.

[Grams]

Rod of Lesser Extend is arguably better than the feat extend at mid levels. Many spells you want to extend to become effectively all day are 3rd or lower.

Greater Magic Fang and Longstrider are two good options.

Same goes for Sculpt spell... Sculpting entangle can be encounter breaking.

[(Un)Inspired]

Wow eggynack, I'm excited for you to publish that handbook. Druids spell casting has always really interested me far beyond their AC and Wildshaping and I can't wait to hear more opinions on them.

[eggynack]

Could be a pretty decent amount of time. Druids are crazy dense, and things often feel rather Zeno's arrow-ish, because potential sections keep being added. For example, stuff like shifter druids or dragon wild shape looks so independently complicated that you could probably justify a small handbook for either topic. The spell section is mostly done, I think, though mostly still means a bunch of undiscussed spells. Still, it's probably the most in-depth look at druid spell options that exists, which is neat.

[(Un)Inspired]

Ahhhh but Zeno's Arrow does reach its target. Apparently the Atomists were right. I will one day read that guide.

[Person_Man]

+1 on eggynack's comments.

Also, in case you want to optimize one of the Druid's less used class features, here's how you optimize Wild Empathy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302815). I'm particularly fond of Half-Orc Druid. Races of Destiny racial substitution levels lets you use Str in place of Cha for Wild Empathy (and thus you get very large bonuses when you get big/strong Wild Shape forms) and Augment Summoning, which is on most people's "must have" list for Druid.

Honestly though, as a Druid it's hard to screw up. Make a list of some good Wildshape forms (one for combat, one for scouting, one for flight, one for Swim, one for Burrow, etc). Play around with different spells until you find ones you like. Fall back and spam Summon Nature's Ally spontaneously if combat seems too difficult. You don't "need" to make good Feat choices to be useful - they're just gravy.

[eggynack]

By the by, for wild empathy purposes, I think you're missing dreamsight. It's a shifter trait from races of eberron that grants a +2 to wild empathy, even when not shifting. With that in addition to the beast spirit thing that you did mention on the list, you're running a +6 with little effort. You also get the effects of speak with animals when you are shifting, which has to help with animal based diplomacy somehow.

[bekeleven]

Nitpick: Druids have almost no multiday buffs, unless I missed a ton. The primal spells are 24H.

[eggynack]

Nitpick: Druids have almost no multiday buffs, unless I missed a ton. The primal spells are 24H.
Yeah, typed that one wrong. Extending a days/level buff would actually be worse than extending a 24 hour one, cause you're already getting the benefit of casting the spell the day before. There's a small list of spells that last days/level, like goodberry and druid grove (MoTW, 87), but once again, worse.

[demigodus]

I would say that at low levels (at least without a high level of optimization), Animal Companions are more important than spells. Think of them as a fighter that you can freely replace in 24 hours.

[eggynack]

I would say that at low levels (at least without a high level of optimization), Animal Companions are more important than spells. Think of them as a fighter that you can freely replace in 24 hours.
I don't know if that's necessarily true. The animal companion is very important, don't get me wrong, but druids get some utterly insane low level spells. A well placed entangle or impeding stones can devastate an encounter, and the utility provided by some of the other spells (omen of peril, spider hand, speak with animals, and wood wose, among others) is great as well. That's only firsts too, and things get even crazier when you hit second level spells.

The animal companion is a lot of things. It's a defense, so that you can cast spells in peace. It's a kill condition, for when your enemies are struggling under the weight of spell based inevitability. It's a target, so that your spells will never lack one. All of these uses are subservient to what your spells provide, and that's as it should be. Maybe at first level, where spells are few, and the animal companion is strong, the animal companion can provide most of the power. It doesn't take long for spells to overcome that importance though. Moreover, an animal companion doesn't respond that much to optimization. You get a riding dog, you hand it some barding, and you upgrade to a fleshraker when you hit 4th level. Simple. A good spell list can come in a million different combinations, and those combinations are each good in their own way. Thus, proper spell optimization is far more important than animal companion optimization, because there's so much more to it.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Feats that should not be optional: Natural Spell at 6th, Natural Bond at 3rd or 1st. You can apply your own effects in the most beneficial order, so get a 'level -3' companion at 4th level such as a Fleshraker or a Dire Eagle, and with Natural Bond you still get to count your full Druid level toward its benefits. Only get Natural Bond at 1st if you want to put a feat at 3rd that can't be taken at 1st, such as Ancestral Relic or Item Familiar or Magic of the Land (don't get Magic of the Land).

Lesser Metamagic Rods of Extend Spell are the best thing ever for you, aim to get around three of them. Use them for spells like Creeping Cold (21d6 damage when you're 3rd level), Kelpstrand, Sleet Storm, Greater Magic Fang, Longstrider, Produce Flame (hold the charge like a touch attack to add fire damage to every natural attack when wild shaped), Heart of Water, Bone Talisman, and 24-hour duration spells like the Primal Something line of spells in Dragon Magic.

Get a standard Strand of Prayer Beads that's already had the Bead of Smiting removed, per DMG pricing it will only cost you 9,000 gp. Use the Bead of Karma before casting your daily buffs so they last longer and they're harder to dispel. The Bead of Healing is sure to come in handy, be sure to use it every day even if it's just for a few hp cured.

Get a bunch of Unguent of Timelessness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#unguentofTimelessness) and put it on eight times as many Bone Talisman (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040721a) (turning) spell foci. Their passage of time will be slowed by 365 times, or one day of perceived time per year of actual time. Bore a hole in each and thread them onto a loop of leather or twine. Each day cast (Lesser Rod of Extended) Bone Talisman on the one at the end of the row, and move it around the loop to the opposite end. That will last a little over five days per caster level thanks to the unguent, and don't forget to count the Bead of Karma. Only use them from the end of the loop with the shortest remaining duration, the opposite side from where you moved the last one you cast it on. When you use one put it at the top of the loop and give it a twist to make a second, smaller loop to keep it separate from the rest. Whenever you cast it again first cast it on one that's been used, or if there aren't any cast it on the one with the least remaining duration. This gives you a Turn Undead ability that's significantly better than that of most Clerics.

Around level 13 get a 6th level Pearl of Power and a standard Metamagic Rod of Extend. Every other day prepare Energy Immunity twice and cast it three times thanks to the pearl, using the rod so each lasts 48 hours. On the days in between prepare Superior Resistance once and Energy Immunity once, and cast Energy Immunity twice with the pearl, again using the rod for all of those so they last 48 hours. This gives you constant immunity to all five energy types and a +6 to saving throws, for the cost of two 6th level spells/day and 47,000 gp worth of items.

[Dr. Azkur]

Thank you all very much.
I'm sure my friend is going to build a monster. I must say I'm fearing a bit for the campaign.