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View Full Version : Classes, Variant Spell Lists, and Tiers



Xuldarinar
2014-01-07, 04:03 PM
Previously, in reference to a small section within the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide, I've brought up the notion of taking classes and altering their spell lists. Now, I want to discuss this but including tiers in the discussion.

How this works is fairly simple. You take one class with casting, of some form, and then alter that element of it. This can be as simple as changing it's list, to swapping out it's spellcasting mechanic entirely with that of another class (or another class's equivalent, such as binding).

Starting off, using official examples, I'd like to refer to the cantor and the witch. The cantor is described as a divine bard who's spells are drawn from the cleric spell list. The witch is essentially, though not explicitly, a sorcerer with a specific spell list with their spells known and drawn from the cleric, druid, and sorcerer/wizard spell lists. What tiers would you say these are? What about other potential variant spell lists?

nedz
2014-01-07, 04:09 PM
Cantor — Tier 3 — same as Bard

Witch — Tier 2 — same as Sorcerer

Unless you are restricting the spell lists significantly then they will not effect the tier of the class. Spells are the most important aspect of high tier classes.

Xuldarinar
2014-01-07, 04:35 PM
Granted. Well, what if we were to take the paladin and give them a broader list? The cleric spell list, or to differentiate paladins of different deities, give them all of their deity's domains' spells as spells known (up to 4th level of course). Similarly, giving the ranger the full list of druid spells as spells known (again, only up to 4th).

What of replacing a cleric or druid spell list with mysteries, keeping mystery mechanics (shadows moving differently with casting, explicitly not being spells, ect.) but having them cast as divine, do not advance to spell-like abilities, and use the class's spells per day instead of each mystery being x/day?

What of swapping any given spellcasting class with other mechanics such as binding though at an advancement according to the class?

Is there any class that could remotely benefit with their casting replaced by truenaming, increasing or even maintaining tier in that case?