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Whyareall
2014-01-07, 04:44 PM
Disclaimer: I am well aware that what I am making is both incredibly cheesy and horribly suboptimal. It is not for a long term game, and the DM has approved it.

So basically, I am making an ECL 10 character who I want to be able to both cast both divine and arcane spells, and manifest powers. At the moment I have thought of 2 ways I could go about this.

Number 1:
Level 1: Wizard (Feat: some metamagic feat, human bonus feat: Practiced Manifester (Ardent))
Level 2: Cleric (or Archivist)
Level 3: Ardent (Feat: Sanctum Spell)
Levels 4-10 are a roughly even mixture of Mystic Theurge, Psionic Theurge, and Cerebremancer, giving +4 to 1 class and +5 to 2 classes.
Pros:
Casting/manifesting at 6th level for 2 classes, and 5th for 1 class
Ardent manifests powers up to 5th level (due to the cheesy way it works in this build)
Cons:
MAD
Limited selection of powers, due to only 2 mantles
Low CL on caster classes unless I use my 6th and 9th level feats on them

Number 2:
Level 1: Wizard (Feat: some metamagic feat, human bonus feat: Practiced Manifester (Ardent))
Level 2: Archivist
Level 3: Ardent (Feat: Sanctum Spell)
Level 4: Psion
Levels 5-10: 2 each of Mystic Theurge, Psionic Theurge, and Cerebremancer
Pros:
SAD
Psion has a wider selection of powers than Ardent
Psion uses Ardent's ability to manifest 2nd level powers to qualify for early entry into the Prestige Classes
Cons:
All three classes cast/manifest as 5th level
Practiced Spellcaster/Manifester can apply to a maximum of 2 of the 3 classes being used
Base Reflex Save of +0

Any thought/suggestions?

Emperor Tippy
2014-01-07, 05:02 PM
Ardent 1/ Wizard 4/ Ur-Priest 2/ Mystic Theuge 2/ Ardent 1

Magic Mantle for one of your Ardent mantles. Get both Practiced Manifester and Practiced Spellcaster for Ardent, get Practiced Spellcaster for Wizard, get Psiotheurgist, get Overchannel.

Do all of the above before taking the second level of Ardent. This gets you 9th level powers known thanks to how Ardent's gain powers. You also get 4th level Cleric spells and 3rd level Wizard spells.

Whyareall
2014-01-07, 05:30 PM
How do I get 6 ranks in Bluff and base fort save +3 by 5th level if all my feats are used up?

Oscredwin
2014-01-07, 06:24 PM
Neither the bluff ranks or the save bonus require feats. I think to play the emperor's build you'll need to be an elf and DCFS some feats. I also think you're going to have to drop a level of wizard for something with a +2 fort save and bluff as a class skill (trickery domain cleric?).

Asrrin
2014-01-07, 06:35 PM
Tippy, is there some way to improve the build by subbing out wizard casting for a Phaerimm's racial sorcerer casting?

nedz
2014-01-07, 06:55 PM
Illumian Ardent 1/ Wizard 1 / Cleric 1 / Mystic Theuge 6 / Ardent 1
with Improve Krau Sigil (Can't enter Ur-Priest at level 3)
Gets you Wiz 7 and Cleric 7 casting for 4th level spells in each at CL 8 without any Practiced Spellcaster feats (Krau)
You get to choose another Sigil, but that's not too important.
Plenty of free feats for the Ardent stuff.

(Un)Inspired
2014-01-07, 07:08 PM
Is there a way to slide ur-priest and sublime chord in and get even higher level casting to go with the ardent manifesting?

nedz
2014-01-07, 07:15 PM
You can't get into sublime chord before level 10 so that's out.
You need 5 levels of something before Ur Priest so that doesn't actually help — at ECL 10. Cleric is quite a nice dip anyway.

Gamereaper
2014-01-07, 07:22 PM
Ummm, would a Sha'ir/ Warlock count?

Just go into the Eldritch and Disciple Theurge Classes, you would need one level of Sacred Exorcist to qualify for Disciple though, but It's technically a triple caster. (?)

(Un)Inspired
2014-01-07, 07:25 PM
What if you did Ardent 4/Savage Bard 1/Wizard 5/Sublime Chord 1/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 7?

Isn't that 9th level powers, 9th level divine spells and 8th level arcane spells?

Whyareall
2014-01-07, 09:09 PM
Neither the bluff ranks or the save bonus require feats. I think to play the emperor's build you'll need to be an elf and DCFS some feats. I also think you're going to have to drop a level of wizard for something with a +2 fort save and bluff as a class skill (trickery domain cleric?).

What does DCFS stand for?

(Un)Inspired
2014-01-07, 09:11 PM
Chaos shuffling

Seer_of_Heart
2014-01-07, 10:06 PM
Be a hatchling phaerimm for free sorcerer casting equal to your hit dice. (buy off the +1 LA) And then go psion 4/martial monk 1(sub with any good fort class)/ur-priest 1/psychic theurge 4. That gives you sorcerer 10 casting, psion 8, and 5th level cleric spells. (You can cut psion levels using early entry tricks not exactly sure what the optimization limit is in your game.)

Alternatively you could go with a beholder mage and go psion 3/martial monk 1(sub with any good fort class)/beholder mage 1/Cerebremancer 1/ur-priest 1/psychic theurge 3. You can reduce psion levels down to 1 if you can get a race with a second level power pla and a dm who lets you qualify for cerebremancer early with that. You get second level arcane spells here, 4th divine, and you manifest as a psion 8. An alternate approach is to not take any ur-priest levels until later until you can qualify for ur-priest without a dip in martial monk.

I think you may be able to circumvent the fort save requirement of ur-priest by being a race that has a good fort save for its racial hit dice and find a friend with inspire greatness.