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Belingorm
2014-01-07, 08:33 PM
I need help setting up my version of Ghoul which are not undead. How can I make description of my ghouls original in appearance. I have been thinking they have a permanent deatwatch, nightvision, immune to disease, the ability to turn into a jackal or a dire jackal at will, and the ability to summon 1D4 dire jackals or 2D6 jackals..

Description: These vile creatures appear to be six to seven feet tall bipedal jackals. Their mangy fur is mottled ash-gray in color. Their face is skeletal. Their deeply shadowed sunken eyes are unearthly red orbs that burn like a miniature sun. Lining their large massive jaws are a double row of yellow teeth designed for tearing and crushing prey. Their long prehensile tongue is black in color and ends in a razor sharp claw. Their hands are wide and monstrous looking. A wicked barbed bony claw that is black in color comes out of each of their hand’s fingers and thumb. The upper half of both legs is powerfully built while the lower half of both legs is a bit thin.

bobthe6th
2014-01-07, 10:49 PM
Lycanthrope? So Were Jackle?
Then just add the and disease immunity as a side thing.
Finally, you can just group it with Jackles... don't see the point to summoning them...

Belingorm
2014-01-10, 07:26 PM
What can I do to make them original?

Rhynn
2014-01-10, 07:45 PM
Why do you need to make them original? If you want something original, how are they even ghouls anymore? Why use the name?

Arabic ghuls are evil djinn who could change shape, lived in wastelands and places of death, and tricked people so they could kill and devour them.

The Lovecraft/Howard/Clark Ashton Smith ghoul, which made its way into D&D and other modern fantasy, is essentially a grotesque humanoid being, possibly once human, that is associated with cemeteries, crypts, and charnel places, and usually devours humans. D&D eventually added undeath to this, and that's generally the association, although often vaguely: they don't necessarily die, they sort of go from living to a sort of living death as a result of, say, eating dead humans.

The Lankhmar ghoul, meanwhile, is a type of human(oid) that eats humans, and has transparent skin and flesh and other tissues - so that from a distance, they appear to be skeletons.


You should start with basic questions: what is the role of these creatures - in the setting, in the game, in stories? Where do they come from, what do they do? How are they connected to other things in the setting?

Edit: Also, a good motto: I’m not going to not do something because someone else did it or else I wouldn’t be playing D&D. (https://hugeruinedpile.wordpress.com/2014/01/05/pnurv-satan-built-my-dungeon/)

Belingorm
2014-01-10, 07:51 PM
I felt that my ghouls would more like the legends of ghouls and not undead. I know that they are obligate carnivores. Their teeth allow them to crush bone so they can get at the marrow.

You think I should call them by another name then?

Description of them made me think of the Marruspawn

Lovecraft ghouls have vaguely canine cast.

Rhynn
2014-01-11, 02:23 AM
I'd build an Arabic ghūl as an Outsider that can alternate form into animals, and prefers the form of a hyena. (Piggyback the ability to summon hyenas, although jackals are fine too - scavengers of the desert.) Make them sneaky in combat, and give them the ability to steal the form of those they kill. Maybe give them other powers of minor illusion, like ventriloquism and mimicry.

You can definitely make their "true form" a mix of canine and humanoid; it seems very, very fitting indeed.

If you're interested in Lovecraftian ghouls, search online for the out-of-copyright Pickman's Model. One of his best stories. Lovecraft's ghouls are also inhabitants of the Dreamlands, and travel between them and the real world through their tunnels. They traffic with witches (no doubt teaching them much of their forbidden lore), eat the dead (and the living, if they catch them), live in the built-over ruins of cities and in tunnels under cemeteries, and - it is heavily implied - sometimes leave changelings in place of human babies... their origins are unclear, but there are fiendish implications of common ancestry between ghouls and humans; perhaps a degeneration brought on by their way of living (a common theme in Lovecraft's writing).

Yora
2014-01-11, 04:27 AM
Golum also is a kind of ghoul.

Rhynn
2014-01-11, 04:39 AM
Golum also is a kind of ghoul.

Never thought of it that way, but he is, isn't he? He started out mortal, and then, with some dark sorcery and a diet involving essentially cannibalism (not just the orcs: he's pretty explicitly stated to eat e.g. human babies stolen from cradles...), he became a horrible twisted grotesque monster trapped in a deathless state...

Djinn_in_Tonic
2014-01-11, 12:31 PM
Description: These vile creatures appear to be six to seven feet tall bipedal jackals. Their mangy fur is mottled ash-gray in color. Their face is skeletal. Their deeply shadowed sunken eyes are unearthly red orbs that burn like a miniature sun. Lining their large massive jaws are a double row of yellow teeth designed for tearing and crushing prey. Their long prehensile tongue is black in color and ends in a razor sharp claw. Their hands are wide and monstrous looking. A wicked barbed bony claw that is black in color comes out of each of their hand’s fingers and thumb. The upper half of both legs is powerfully built while the lower half of both legs is a bit thin.

Sounds fairly original to me, save for the clawed tongue seeming a bit like a Morhg (and also seeming really strange).

What exactly is the issue?

bobthe6th
2014-01-11, 01:44 PM
What can I do to make them original?

Don't tell the players it is just a templated mortal? See the Giants thing about a fire template elephant being the most terrifying and original monster he ever faced.

Perhaps remove the human form and things that force it into its natural state go to hybrid. Also the weakness could be something odd, like cold iron.

If you feel it needs more omph, give it some SLAs. Or some more templates.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2014-01-11, 01:59 PM
Don't tell the players it is just a templated mortal? See the Giants thing about a fire template elephant being the most terrifying and original monster he ever faced.

Are you sure that was the Giant? Because I use that example an almost that exact wording when discussing reflavoring in THIS (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150609) thread. Maybe the Giant talked abouta similar casetas well.

Belingorm
2014-01-11, 08:08 PM
What if they are Outsiders with the description as their true form?

I was thinking that have have the following. They will be immune to all poisons and diseases.
Deathwatch (Ex): A ghoul is under the constant effect of deathwatch, as per the spell of the same name. This ability cannot be dispelled.

I would like them to be able to trick people so they could kill and devour them. I think a ghoul's favorite food is humanoids.

Gollum was twisted by the one ring which slowly turned him into the creature he was before he died.

bobthe6th
2014-01-12, 02:23 PM
Are you sure that was the Giant? Because I use that example an almost that exact wording when discussing reflavoring in THIS (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150609) thread. Maybe the Giant talked abouta similar casetas well.

Ah, yep, that was you. Sorry for the miss-credit. Though I would hope the point still stands.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2014-01-12, 03:47 PM
Ah, yep, that was you. Sorry for the miss-credit. Though I would hope the point still stands.

The point stands completely. And no worries: I was more curious as to whether or not the Giant and I BOTH had fire elephant experiences. :smallbiggrin: