A thought about Tarquin's team

[dps]

If Tarquin is the Elan of his team, maybe Shoulder Pad Guy is the Roy.

[Trillium]

To balance it out, SPG must be barely competent in a fight. Or in anything else, really.

[Seto]

Well, I'd say Tarquin is as much the Roy as he is the Elan. Same as Elan, he's all about tropes and storytelling, but same as Roy (and unlike Elan) he's a good strategist and a fighter (maybe not the actual class, but at least the party role). He even compares Roy to himself several times, along the lines of "hey, that's something I would have done when I was your age".

[rbetieh]

I dont know if you can compare these 2 teams like that.

It seems to me that in OOts Elan and Durkon share the role of being the Moral center of the group; while Roy handles being the Rational mind of the group. Belkar and Haley tend towards presenting emotional counter-arguments. V seems to bounce back and forth on both fronts sometimes moral sometimes not, sometimes rational somtimes not....

Who is the Moral center of Tarquins group? Who makes the rational decisions? Who provides the counter-arguments? Tarquin doesnt seem to take anyones advice or admonishment. And all 3 of his teammates appear to have followed him because he offered them something (Malack - chance to kill Nale, Mirron - clear a favor, Laurin - New Favor).

[thereaper]

They "followed" him in the sense that they went with his plan and took his advice because it worked. Rich has confirmed that was basically Tarquin's role. His idea of himself as their leader is apparently something he decided himself and is possibly not based in reality (which intrigued me, because up until he said that I has believed Tarquin to be the leader of his party when it came to "business" matters).

[Matt620]

"Business matters" may simply mean he's a consultant: He knows the rules of stories and drama enough so that whenever the real brain of the team thinks of something, they ask Tarquin to make sure it's not some stupid villain cliche that's going to bite them in the ass.

When it comes to moral center, I'm of the opinion that it's Laurin. Jacinda will steal from a merchant that doesn't seem to have any personal vendetta against the guild (and not mercy kill him beforehand), Malack would sacrifice anyone to Nergal, and plans wholesale slaughter, and Miron is as greedy as Haley and gleefully sadistic as Belkar.

When it comes to the brains of the team, Miron seems to understand profit the best: I wouldn't be surprised if it's him.

[The Grim Author]

In terms of "the Brains", I think it's a tie between Laurin (Psion requires a high Int, especially if you want Lots and Lots of PP) and Miron (who looks to be a Wizard, which also needs a massive amount of Int). Jacinda probably isn't hurting in the brain department either —*rogues like to have at least above-average Int because it means more skill points. More sweet, sweet skill points.

[Onyavar]

The OPs idea isn't new (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16644097#post16644097) but I think it is very interesting and there are hints in the comic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16659435#post16659435) that it's just so.

Only a theory so far though.

[Bulldog Psion]

Don't worry, any intriguing idea you suddenly come up has, despite its originality, already been thought of by 100 other forum members and is the subject of at least 5 threads.

This principle is known as the Law of Swordsage.

[XRellikX]

If Tarquin is the Elan of his team, maybe Shoulder Pad Guy is the Roy.

I always saw it as Tarquin is the Roy of his team, and he *wants* Elan to become more like him, aka becoming the leader of OotS so Elan can become like Tarquin.

[Snails]

They "followed" him in the sense that they went with his plan and took his advice because it worked. Rich has confirmed that was basically Tarquin's role. His idea of himself as their leader is apparently something he decided himself and is possibly not based in reality (which intrigued me, because up until he said that I has believed Tarquin to be the leader of his party when it came to "business" matters).

Tarquin tries to cast himself as some kind of Evil Mastermind. I mostly fell for the act myself. For me, the ruse fell apart when Tarquin was surprised that Nale murdered Malack, which demonstrates a gobsmackingly low Sense Motive on Tarquin's part. Golly gee, what exactly were the odds that Nale would respond to the threat of violence with violence the moment Nale thought he could get away with it? The man is clever and his Diplomacy is sky high, but Wisdom is his dump stat.

Whether Tarquin is the leader is one of those things Tarquin likes to believe. As you suggest, they have been working a plan Tarquin (claims to have) put together. Well, Belkar occasionally has good ideas, too.

[Seto]

In terms of "the Brains", I think it's a tie between Laurin (Psion requires a high Int, especially if you want Lots and Lots of PP) and Miron (who looks to be a Wizard, which also needs a massive amount of Int). Jacinda probably isn't hurting in the brain department either —*rogues like to have at least above-average Int because it means more skill points. More sweet, sweet skill points.

Speaking of which, is there any clear indication of what Miron's casting stat is ? I always saw him as a Sorcerer, given the way he talks (Wizards usually use very elaborate sentences), and I guess the "Xykon is feeling chilly" made me associate him with Xykon. Anyway, he makes me think a lot more about Xykon or Samantha than V.

[Seward]

The best argument that Miron is a wizard is that if he was a sorc, he could have spam-casted Horrid Wilting at long range, which would have neatly dealt with the entire OOTS. Where if he is a Wiz, that might have been his only long range spell prepped that day, not enough to take out a L15ish party or their ride.

Although the counter argument is Tarquin vetoed that plan on grounds it might kill Elan. And is not a very exciting story.

Given that we only saw Miron in action for about 3 panels doing anything but becoming a pincushion, it is kind of hard to say. Wizards and Sorcs of his level look a lot alike. You need to see either too many spells of one type used (eg, if Miron had been doing teleports instead of Lauren doing wormholes) to say "sorc" or too many diverse high level spells used (4 different 9th level spells used in one fight by a non-epic caster).

[Socksy]

Speaking of which, is there any clear indication of what Miron's casting stat is ? I always saw him as a Sorcerer, given the way he talks (Wizards usually use very elaborate sentences), and I guess the "Xykon is feeling chilly" made me associate him with Xykon. Anyway, he makes me think a lot more about Xykon or Samantha than V.

And the comment with the butt-splashy thing doesn't seem like he has ~20-24 INT to me...

[Seward]

And the comment with the butt-splashy thing doesn't seem like he has ~20-24 INT to me...

Fair point. At a gaming table I'd assume the player had a poor vocabulary. The wizards and other smart folks in OOTS mostly show their high int stat with vocabulary (witness how Roy got V's respect in Origin of PCs). I'm not sure that's strong enough for the Geekery thread but I find that argument pretty compelling.

So I'll go with the "Spamming Horrid Wilting will kill Elan" reason for no long range spells from Miron until the mount was polymorphed and the party was scattered. Being a sorcerer would also mean Miron's refusal to toss a few spells into the first battle scene even more of a statement. A wizard is cautious about casting, because she loses options with each spell cast.

Sorcerers tend to behave like superheros, casting spells with abandon until they objectively start running low on high level spell slots. (Psions are like this only moreso...hence Lauren's behaviour) It's actually hard to use those lower level slots even in an active day unless you do a lot of "buff the entire party with single target spell" activities during a day.