How would you deal with

[Max Caysey]

After reading op on some very high CR monsters, I was thinking about wheter or not it was possible to defeat such highpowered entities.

So lets say we have a level 21 wizard. With low to medium optimization, no spell restrictions, no feat restriction. 3.5 rules. All official material allowed.

21 wiz vs. PHAETHON

Can it be done and how?

I know that a lot of you guys out there must have P.HD's in D&D 3.5 so I'm hoping that you guys will help me with tactics, spells, build?

Thanks! :smallbiggrin:

[Snowbluff]

I don't have to know what a Phaeton is to tell you there is an epic spell that could be made to get rid of it.

EDIT: Oh, abomination #426. Yeah, that's not much of problem. Use walls of iron and suck people's souls to fund an epic spell that would just outright destroy it. That would be the most straight forward method. Personally, I would teleport through time for starters, so I can be done by the time it becomes a problem.

[Max Caysey]

I don't have to know what a Phaeton is to tell you there is an epic spell that could be made to get rid of it.

Damn... ofc. I forgot to exclude Epic Spells, because thats the obvious answer to everything. Sorry about that! No epic spell please. :smallsmile:

[Snowbluff]

I Wish it would fail it's next save.

Make it Implode or something. :smalltongue:

OH! Never mind that, I could make an Ice Assassin and have it fight a perfect duplicate. Or 2. Or 3! It's my favorite spell. It's even ice/snow themed!

I make myself into an Aleax of myself, so I can't be harmed.

Hm... what else...

[Max Caysey]

I Wish it would fail it's next save.

Make it Implode or something. :smalltongue:

OH! Never mind that, I could make an Ice Assassin and have it fight a perfect duplicate. Or 2. Or 3! It's my favorite spell. It's even ice/snow themed!

I make myself into an Aleax of myself, so I can't be harmed.

Hm... what else...

Can this be done with wish? or Shapechange? Or ??? The Aleax thing that is!

[Snowbluff]

Can this be done with wish? or Shapechange? Or ??? The Aleax thing that is!
You want to make and/or mind switch with one. I think the best option would be an Ice Assassin, Mindraping it, then wishing for an item for the True Mind Switch.

Of course, I could be mixing up the specifics. Shapechange should work.

EDIT: Shapechanging into a Sarrukh, being scalykind, and then giving yourself the Singular Enemy ability that way, Pun Pun style, might work too.

[Phelix-Mu]

A more straightforward issue is that any DM that isn't having the monsters fighting epic-level characters employ equal op to the pcs is probably going to fail to challenge the party. After 17th, the gloves come off big-time, even at mid-levels of optimization.

So the issue isn't how the wizard 21 defeats X or Y, but how we can increase the pool of things that can challenge said character from nil to maybe include some good candidates for BBEGs/boss-types. Cause wizard 21 is 5 levels into some blatantly cosmic power, and has just entered the epic-level gp landslide effect.

Frankly, phaethon should already be busting out psyreform to get UMD. UMD itself a demiplane, a series of ETFs, a bunch of simulacra of itself, fusion itself with Psion 20. Unleash World Annihilation Plan mk 652294.

And then get ready to take on the Wiz 21.

[Erth16]

Is it straight Wizard 21? If not then going mailman could work if the double damage from cold or ice weapons applies to cold spells. An Enhanced Twinned Maximized Empowered Combust Substituted to Cold (Needs metamagic reducers and a rod) would do 810 over two hits. If we managed to do it twice, it would be 1620, which would take out it's average hp. We could use Timestop to setup our Assay Sr, and get close, then once we are close enough to it to strike, we...Celerity, strike and teleport away? Dimension Door? My plan kinda falls apart here. If you don't mind luck being a major factor then Mirror Image could just happen to succeed in avoiding the hits 8 times in a row so we could strike and escape without Celerity, then approach with Celerity.


Edit: Obviously I'm going for the less cheesy methods, and trying to take it in a straight fight. Because I forgot Ice Assassin exists.

[Max Caysey]

Is it straight Wizard 21? If not then going mailman could work if the double damage from cold or ice weapons applies to cold spells. An Enhanced Twinned Maximized Empowered Combust Substituted to Cold (Needs metamagic reducers and a rod) would do 810 over two hits. If we managed to do it twice, it would be 1620, which would take out it's average hp. We could use Timestop to setup our Assay Sr, and get close, then once we are close enough to it to strike, we...Celerity, strike and teleport away? Dimension Door? My plan kinda falls apart here. If you don't mind luck being a major factor then Mirror Image could just happen to succeed in avoiding the hits 8 times in a row so we could strike and escape without Celerity, then approach with Celerity.


Edit: Obviously I'm going for the less cheesy methods, and trying to take it in a straight fight. Because I forgot Ice Assassin exists.

I too enjoy the straight fight more. I think that most of the timers its more fun and demands mroe creativity.