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View Full Version : Let the Manliest of Homebrewers, Come On Down! (Persona 3.5 Brainstorming)



AuraTwilight
2014-01-09, 03:11 AM
So: Persona in d20. I've seen a lot of people try to adapt the Persona game series into tabletop format. Some have been successful even.

But, just as an exercise, I'm kind of interested into fitting it into D&D 3.5 specifically. I'm curious on what you, Playgrounders, feel that such an adaptation needs or what problems would have to be addressed.

My current train of thought is that it doesn't have to be a game of JUST Persona Users; infact, I've considered making it a template so that any theoretical character can face themselves. The Persona itself will be sort of like a secondary, pseudo-character, sharing attributes, skills, and feats of the master character but perhaps having the Major Arcana represent the effective 'race' of the Persona (ability modifiers, etc) and Minor Arcana would be the classes Personas can level in. (The Wand arcana being some sort of magic-user, for instance).

Other than that, I haven't developed the idea very far. How does this sound?

Debihuman
2014-01-09, 05:56 AM
The problem mostly stems from trying to explain to people who have no idea what the Persona system is. I have no idea what it is. Unless you can clearly define it, your intended audience will be very small.

Debby

AuraTwilight
2014-01-09, 06:30 AM
Oh, yes, of course, dur! Slipped my mind at this hour, sorry!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shin_Megami_Tensei:_Persona

A console RPG series. The premise is that ordinary people become capable of manifesting their inner selves as superpowered spiritual summons to fight manifestations of human darkness.

ScrambledBrains
2014-01-09, 10:16 AM
My current train of thought is that it doesn't have to be a game of JUST Persona Users; infact, I've considered making it a template so that any theoretical character can face themselves. The Persona itself will be sort of like a secondary, pseudo-character, sharing attributes, skills, and feats of the master character but perhaps having the Major Arcana represent the effective 'race' of the Persona (ability modifiers, etc) and Minor Arcana would be the classes Personas can level in. (The Wand arcana being some sort of magic-user, for instance).

I will freely admit that I think this idea has potential. It allows for the duality of both the player character and the Persona as it currently exists in the series. However, there is an issue I can spot. Namely, how do you account for the fact that while most team-members for both 3 and 4(The only two games I've played in the series) are at least slightly physically capable, not all of them are, and yet...their persona might well be very strong?

I.E. Fuuka, Rise, Yukiko. The first two are utter non-combatants, and in Yukiko's case, while she fights, her skills are almost entirely Persona based. How do you account for the weak character with the strong Persona?

Other than that, I'm interested in seeing where this goes, as I love Persona, and quite frankly, I'd love to help as much as I'm able. :smallsmile:

AuraTwilight
2014-01-09, 04:04 PM
Namely, how do you account for the fact that while most team-members for both 3 and 4(The only two games I've played in the series) are at least slightly physically capable, not all of them are, and yet...their persona might well be very strong?

I.E. Fuuka, Rise, Yukiko. The first two are utter non-combatants, and in Yukiko's case, while she fights, her skills are almost entirely Persona based. How do you account for the weak character with the strong Persona?

I considered this. I was thinking the Cup Arcana would represent a class of support/healing/generally noncombative Personas like Fuuka and Rise, and while the skills, ability scores, and feats of a Persona User are converted over to a Persona, their class can give the Persona bonus ability points and feats as they advance.

Does this make sense/sound good?

ScrambledBrains
2014-01-09, 04:56 PM
I considered this. I was thinking the Cup Arcana would represent a class of support/healing/generally noncombative Personas like Fuuka and Rise, and while the skills, ability scores, and feats of a Persona User are converted over to a Persona, their class can give the Persona bonus ability points and feats as they advance.

Does this make sense/sound good?

That works for me. Actually, that makes me wonder. If the Cup is healing and support, the Wand(I assume) is magic, and the Sword(again, I assume) is melee, what of the Coin?

Further question-How are you handling the 'Shadow' element? You mentioned something about a Template to allow people to face themselves...what exactly is required for that? What enhances the power of the Shadow of any person? Is it tied to a mental stat of theirs? A physical one? A combination or neither?

Also, how do you handle the idea that Persona users grow more powerful the more bonds they make with others?

I hope I don't come across as rude, I'm just hoping to make this as good as I can. :smallsmile:

AuraTwilight
2014-01-09, 05:32 PM
That works for me. Actually, that makes me wonder. If the Cup is healing and support, the Wand(I assume) is magic, and the Sword(again, I assume) is melee, what of the Coin?

The Pentacle is what I think I'll be calling it. I'm intending to make that the buff/status effect/support class.


Further question-How are you handling the 'Shadow' element? You mentioned something about a Template to allow people to face themselves...what exactly is required for that? What enhances the power of the Shadow of any person? Is it tied to a mental stat of theirs? A physical one? A combination or neither?

I hadn't gotten far into it. I might make a template for making Shadows because screw statting them all out individually. Perhaps essentially make them free-roaming Personas?

As for facing yourself and the strength of their Shadow, that's basically a story event. :3



Also, how do you handle the idea that Persona users grow more powerful the more bonds they make with others?

Unsure. I haven't gotten that far whatsoever. ^^; I'm not planning to introduce the Wild Card, so the usefulness of Social Links is greatly diminished anyway.

re_e
2014-01-09, 07:43 PM
You can use the pathfinder summoner (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner) as a base to make a persona user class.
Instead of summoning a eidolon the persona-user summon his persona.

AuraTwilight
2014-01-09, 08:51 PM
A common solution offered, but I don't really like it. The Eidolons don't exactly offer what I want, and I'd have to cut off the Summoner's spellcasting anyway.

re_e
2014-01-09, 09:36 PM
A common solution offered, but I don't really like it. The Eidolons don't exactly offer what I want, and I'd have to cut off the Summoner's spellcasting anyway.

You can use a modified Synthesist archetype and the evolution points mechanics to make the persona special abilities.
For example Chie persona will be something like this:
Biped form - maybe removing the claw attacks
Weapon Training - it uses a weapon
Ability Increase strength - it focus more in physical attacks
Cold resistance - maybe giving a fire vulnerability as a drawback
Basic magic ray of frost - bufu magic

AuraTwilight
2014-01-09, 10:15 PM
I'm just not entirely feeling it. I never really liked the Summoner to begin with and the Eidolon's options just aren't varied enough at all.

EdroGrimshell
2014-01-09, 10:46 PM
What about something more like This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155181) mixed with This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13115715#post13115715)?

re_e
2014-01-09, 11:39 PM
I'm just not entirely feeling it. I never really liked the Summoner to begin with and the Eidolon's options just aren't varied enough at all.
First who will create the personas, the DM or the player? If is the player some rules must be used to create the persona, and the eidolon can be used as a start point to these rules: You have X points, these points can be spent to obtain Y benefits.


What about something more like This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155181) mixed with This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13115715#post13115715)?

The evolutionist is alike the pathfinder Synthesist summoner, but much better.

AuraTwilight
2014-01-10, 01:57 AM
What about something more like This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155181) mixed with This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13115715#post13115715)?

Maybe. I'll have to read them in more depth.



First who will create the personas, the DM or the player? If is the player some rules must be used to create the persona, and the eidolon can be used as a start point to these rules: You have X points, these points can be spent to obtain Y benefits.

I believe I mentioned in the OP the idea of writing up classes for Personas. Really, the form of the Personae don't really matter so things like appendages and physical attributes aren't worth worrying about so much as the supernatural abilities the Persona possesses.

Magatsu Izanagi
2014-01-10, 02:27 AM
You can use a modified Synthesist archetype and the evolution points mechanics to make the persona special abilities.
For example Chie persona will be something like this:
Biped form - maybe removing the claw attacks
Weapon Training - it uses a weapon
Ability Increase strength - it focus more in physical attacks
Cold resistance - maybe giving a fire vulnerability as a drawback
Basic magic ray of frost - bufu magic
It's actually better for an eidolon to take Martial/Exotic Weapon Proficiency as a feat instead of spending points on the weapon training evolution, but that's neither here nor there.

In any case, a lot of things covered by eidolon evolutions could already be covered by the Major (race) and Minor (class) Arcanas if I'm understanding the OP correctly. I do agree that it should be an a-la-carte deal with both Arcanas, though. For your Major, you buy ability score increases, energy resistances/immunities, and other special qualities. For your Minor, you buy class abilities (sneak attack, energy channeling, bonus feats, et cetera). There should be a lot of room to customize your Persona the way you see fit.

AuraTwilight
2014-01-10, 03:33 AM
The Major Arcana are definitely the less-developed of the two ideas. The Minor Arcana would be classes that be dipped and multiclassed like any other classes for a non-Persona character.

For Major Arcana, I was thinking originally that each Arcana would give 'racial modifiers', plus some sort of bonus feat or trait every 4 levels or so, as determined by each Arcana. Even if the Major Arcana aren't strictly customizable in a point-buy sense, it's still 20-something races.