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Lord Sidereal
2007-01-21, 12:16 PM
would a tarrasque hold a decent challenge (but by no means insurmoutable) to a party of max'd out level 18 players?

CrazedGoblin
2007-01-21, 12:26 PM
ive no idea if you can take it at that level but from what ive read it looks really tough

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-21, 12:31 PM
So long as the party can cast wish or miracle, it's possible. Not really likely, but possible.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-21, 12:40 PM
I believe I once saw a rather lengthy discussion on different ways to defeat a tarrasque, and they said possibly the lowest level you can take it at is 13.

Different methods involved tarrasque simulcra and really big holes.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-21, 12:44 PM
Actually, I'm having my team of level 6's face one right now. They're getting some stage props to fight it with, though- there's two large armies (one allied, one opposed), plenty of armed ballista's in the area, and the primary melee warrior is about to find a weapon that can take it out for good- a luck blade. The challenge isn't so much the Tarrasque as it is the army they're fighting while trying to deal with it.

This is D&D. Circumstances can mean everything.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-01-21, 12:53 PM
Tarrasque is CR 20. Assuming they face the Tarrasque on its own with nothing else to escalate the challenge (like a mad lich that just released the beast as part of its plan for world domination), it will be an EL 20 encounter. That means it should be beatable by an 18th level party, though the fight will be difficult. See pages 48-51 in the DMG for more info on balancing encounters.

Thomas
2007-01-21, 01:35 PM
A single CR 20 opponent is EL 20, by default, and therefore theoretically defeatable by a party of four 16th-level characters (at horrible cost).

Only the DM can know for sure, though, since he knows the characters, the players, and his own style.

oriong
2007-01-21, 01:40 PM
The main thing is that the tarrasque is all about preparation. A squad of high level (15+) ranger archers on a flying carpet can take it out without too much trouble at all. but if you put a standard 20th level adventuring team fighting it without any pre-thought then there's a very good chance they'll simply be slaughtered (especially if they don't know about it's immunities and defenses ahead of time). Most of the spellcasters spells won't work or are just wastes of time, the fighters will probably be quickly swallowed if they get in melee reach of it, etc.

If your PCs know about it ahead of time, and more importantly know about it's abilities' then I'd say yes they could beat it. If it's the sort of game where they can lay their hands on whatever magic item they like then they could even beat it without a single party fatality.

Thomas
2007-01-21, 02:03 PM
You know you suck when you get killed by rangers...

Douglas
2007-01-21, 02:06 PM
I seem to recall that someone calculated that the damage of a party of four 5th level wizards with Fly and Acid Arrow who spent all their starting gold on wands of Acid Arrow and just kept on casting it over and over again from out of the Tarrasque's reach would eventually get him down to the -10 required before making the Wish. I think it was assumed the Wish would be provided for them, though.

oriong
2007-01-21, 02:24 PM
The rangers are just a convenient ranged attack character with full BAB, a squad of ranged fighters is probably just as effective.

As for the 5th level wizards...I don't know about that. Let's see.

They're level 5, so the fly spells going to last for 5 minutes, let's assume they use both their spell slots for it so they've each got 10 minutes of fly-time (at the cost of giving the tarrasque a free round of regeneration) so that's 100 rounds.

they've got 9,000 gp between them, that's exactly enough for two wands of acid arrow each, so enough to cast one spell each round.

Acid arrows inflict 2d4 damage a round and the tarrasque has regeneration 40. 4 wizards do 8d4 damage per round, it won't be nearly enough to get him damaged the first round (average damage of 20), but acid arrow will stack over to the next round so the next round (and each future round it'll do 16d4...but that's exactly an average damage of 40, just enough for the tarrasque to never take any damage. I needn't have bothered to work out any of the other stuff, they'd never manage it.

Douglas
2007-01-21, 02:57 PM
The original post appears to have vanished or been edited, but some quotes and discussion remain in this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24865). It seems I forgot a few crucial details: the wizards all have Extend Spell and Craft Wand, and they crafted one wand each of Extended Acid Arrow (caster level 5). That doubles the duration and max damage rate, so once they've spent four rounds getting up to speed the Tarrasque is taking an average of 40 damage per round after his regeneration is deducted. It'll take a bit over 20 rounds for this to bring Big T down, but Fly lasts for 50 at that level.

krossbow
2007-01-21, 03:02 PM
I generally give a tarrasque either a breath weapon or insect like wings to avoid that cheese; it's really vulnerable to that.



But without planning, a level 18 party is in a bad situation, with planning it's no sweat.

Jack Mann
2007-01-21, 04:14 PM
I believe I once saw a rather lengthy discussion on different ways to defeat a tarrasque, and they said possibly the lowest level you can take it at is 13.

Different methods involved tarrasque simulcra and really big holes.

In theory, I can take out the Big T with a seventh level wizard. I just need summon undead IV to get an allip, and a lot of luck.

Of course, this only renders him comatose, rather than killing him, but it's still a pretty good trick.

Lord Sidereal
2007-01-21, 04:16 PM
okay, we've got off topic. 4 level 18 players, standard party format, not geared towards the tarrasque, lets say it pops out on them one day. how well are they likely to do?

Mewtarthio
2007-01-21, 04:18 PM
I generally give a tarrasque either a breath weapon or insect like wings to avoid that cheese; it's really vulnerable to that.

Oooh! Give him the Half-Fey template! Butterfly Tarrasque of Doom for the win!

krossbow
2007-01-21, 04:21 PM
I actually would find that incredibly disturbing, and creepy. I mean heres this giant monster, with vicious claws and drooling mouth... and it's flying towards you with bright yellow wings.


I mean, seriously, I'd say "This is seriously F***ed up Man! Lets get the hell out of here!" and take off running :smalltongue:




But I was meaning something more like beetle wings.

oriong
2007-01-21, 04:40 PM
okay, we've got off topic. 4 level 18 players, standard party format, not geared towards the tarrasque, lets say it pops out on them one day. how well are they likely to do?

Still very dependent.

First it depends very much on party knowledge. Do they know what the hell the tarrasque can do and can't do? If they have no clue, then they're dead, almost hands down. A good half of the spells a wizard can pull out won't work or will just get ignored because of saves/SR/regeneration. Some of them will bounce back and hit the wizard in the face. Anyone who tries to melee the tarrasque is just plain toast. The huge AC destroys most Power Attackers, combined with DR/epic and regeneration means that most melee fighters will just be scratching it. A raging barbarian or frenzied berserker might do a better job, but not massively. On the defense, anyone who gets within melee reach of the tarrasque goes in it's belly in a matter of rounds (the thing can hit even the most dedicated AC monkey and it's got a +81 grapple bonus).

Anyone who doesn't know what's coming for them is doomed if they try any kind of 'standard' attack strategy.


The second factor is the conditions the fight is in. The tarrasque's mobility is it's biggest weakness and the best way for a caster to take advantage of them. If the tarrasque can be slowed or halted for a few rounds (say in a badlands area) it gives people a chance to actually hurt it. but if it's faced on an open field or in a small cave (forcing melee) then doom for the PCs

Also, the spellcasters preparation is very important. They need to focus on indirect and buff spells to have any chance at all.

Essentially, the party of 4 is doomed if they try and make the fight to the end and have no previous knowledge, or way to take advantage of the environment.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-21, 05:28 PM
If they don't know anything about it, they're not necessarily doomed. They still have one hope.

Run awayyyyyy!

oriong
2007-01-21, 05:33 PM
true, but that strategy (unless done very, very quickly and using Teleport or similar) still leaves some of them dead. anyone in the tarrasque's belly, or anyone it catches up with using it's Rush.

Rei_Jin
2007-01-21, 05:37 PM
okay, we've got off topic. 4 level 18 players, standard party format, not geared towards the tarrasque, lets say it pops out on them one day. how well are they likely to do?

The thing with the Tarrasque, is that seeing it has never been killed, you would have to spend big on divinations to find out (if it's even possible to find out, maybe a god has a controlling interest in him) that you need to cast Wish to kill him. Wish isn't something that your average Wizard would prepare on a daily basis.

A totally unprepared party against the Tarrasque? Unless they managed to be automatically set up to take him on (by sheer luck) they're either toast or they're flying away.

You can't kill him by any of the normal means, he just gets back up. What the hell do you do against that?

Lord Sidereal
2007-01-21, 05:38 PM
so really his CR should be much higher.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-21, 05:56 PM
true, but that strategy (unless done very, very quickly and using Teleport or similar) still leaves some of them dead. anyone in the tarrasque's belly, or anyone it catches up with using it's Rush.

I thought that tarrasques were only violent when provoked.

oriong
2007-01-21, 05:58 PM
Not exactly. The problem is that the tarrasque has some very specific requirements, and a lot of nastiness to spare.

However, so long as you don't waste time attacking him in a way that's going to fail (like meleeing him or using direct effect magic) he's not to tough. His mobility is absolutely miserable, he's certainly not very smart, and if you know what you're about he's not too tough to take out.

The problem is just do the PCs know all this, it's like dealing with a Golem, the golem has unbeatable SR, and immunity to many class abilities, and DR only beatable by adamantium weapons. A group of at CR PCs who rely on things that the golem is strong against will be creamed. But, if you have even a rough idea of what you're dealing with it becomes much much easier than CR.

The Tarrasque is just one of those creature's whose CR is it's 'average' chalelnge when dealing with different extremes. If you try and deal with it in a very 'sword and fireball' manner you're dead or running away. If you have the info and can put it to use you can beat the Tarrasque before you're even 16th level without a single casualty. The CR doesn't accurately reflect the level of challenge, but really there isn't any CR that will.



I thought that tarrasques were only violent when provoked.

Ouch, not true at all I'm afraid. The tarrasques have two switches "sleep" and "murder everything that moves". So if it's already asleep and you don't do anything to wake it up, sure you're fine. but if it's awake already or you wake it up then you're breakfast.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-21, 06:08 PM
Ouch, not true at all I'm afraid. The tarrasques have two switches "sleep" and "murder everything that moves". So if it's already asleep and you don't do anything to wake it up, sure you're fine. but if it's awake already or you wake it up then you're breakfast.

So the DM using his cat as the model for it was perfectly fitting!

Jack Mann
2007-01-21, 07:04 PM
Some creatures are designed to be "boss" battles. That is, they're supposed to be very hard for the CR, so that they'll be remembered more. Dragons are like this. Intelligently played, a dragon is much harder to beat than nearly anything else of its CR, unless the party has prepared to deal with it.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-21, 07:22 PM
Some creatures are designed to be "boss" battles. That is, they're supposed to be very hard for the CR, so that they'll be remembered more. Dragons are like this. Intelligently played, a dragon is much harder to beat than nearly anything else of its CR, unless the party has prepared to deal with it.

Heh, I remember facing this one hard dragon. Even with Antidragon Aura and Downdraft prepared, we had trouble. It didn't fly, so my Downdrafts had to be converted into heals.

We killed him though, and I think only one of us died.

Mewtarthio
2007-01-21, 08:16 PM
I thought that tarrasques were only violent when provoked.

Originally, yes, but humans have a nasty habit of giving the Tarrasque snacks and occasionally even coming into contact with it. It has now lost its fear of humans and may attack random travellers if it thinks they have food (read: they aren't incorporeal).

Thomas
2007-01-21, 08:27 PM
I thought that tarrasques were only violent when provoked.

Eh?

The whole idea is that the Tarrasque (it is THE, by default) awakens every few decades or centuries, feels peckish, and proceeds to devastate everything for miles around, eating anyone and anything it catches.

Sounds like unprovoked violence, that.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-01-21, 09:38 PM
Sounds like unprovoked violence, that.
Sounds provoked to me.

His stomach provoked him. :smallbiggrin:

mikeejimbo
2007-01-21, 10:04 PM
Yeah, I don't really consider that violent, just hungry.

He sees moving people, he eats 'em.

oriong
2007-01-21, 10:07 PM
Well...eating someone is violent I'm afraid.

He's certainly not evil or anything, he's basically an animal. But catching someone in a set of huge claws, crushing them in your jaws, and then swalllowing them is pretty darn violent. Just not malicious.

And since his hunger can't really be filled up it's not like he's just out to hunt: he destroys everything in his path before going back to sleep.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-21, 10:08 PM
So we're agreed that while the act is violent, the intention is not?

oriong
2007-01-21, 10:14 PM
No, not really. Violence isn't about good or evil. Violence is just violence. The intention is violent because what he wants is to kill and eat someone. It's just as violent to smash in the skull of a lich as it is to smash in the head of an innocent. Violence is just the use of force to damage, destroy or injure.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-21, 10:15 PM
I suppose so, but I didn't think the Tarrasque was bright enough to have any intention.

Aeyamar
2007-01-21, 10:19 PM
It is entirely possible for aqa party of level 18s to defeat a terrasque. The terrasque just has way too many weeknesses. It can't fly, can't detect invisibile enemies, and can't recover from things such as baleful polymorph. In truth it is actually possible to defeat the terrasque at as low as 13th level.

oriong
2007-01-21, 10:29 PM
Well it can detect invisible creatures: it's got the Scent ability and anything without a hide modifier can be spotted with it's +17 to spot, and baleful polymorph is no threat at all.

But yes, it can be defeated relatively easily by any party aware of, and prepared to exploit, it's weaknesses.

Mewtarthio
2007-01-21, 10:30 PM
I suppose so, but I didn't think the Tarrasque was bright enough to have any intention.

Even mosquitos have intention, albeit intention to drink blood and spawn new mosquitos. The tarrasque has a violent intention since his intention is "kill and eat everything in the universe." The poor guy doesn't even mate. He is violence incarnate.


It is entirely possible for aqa party of level 18s to defeat a terrasque. The terrasque just has way too many weeknesses. It can't fly, can't detect invisibile enemies, and can't recover from things such as baleful polymorph. In truth it is actually possible to defeat the terrasque at as low as 13th level.

Actually, his +17 Spot check lets him almost always notice that something invisible is nearby (though he can't pinpoint it). As for Baleful Polymorph, you first have to beat his spell resistance (32, which is definately something of a challenge for thirteenth-level characters, eh?) and then hope he fails his Fortitude save (+38). But if it does work, then odds are you've found the only way to beat the Tarrasque that doesn't require a wish, miracle, or reality revision (in theory, Big T no longer regenerates when polymorphed into a small housecat).

mikeejimbo
2007-01-21, 10:34 PM
Even mosquitos have intention, albeit intention to drink blood and spawn new mosquitos. The tarrasque has a violent intention since his intention is "kill and eat everything in the universe." The poor guy doesn't even mate. He is violence incarnate.

OK, I surrender. He's violent. :smalltongue:


(in theory, Big T no longer regenerates when polymorphed into a small housecat).

I shall pet him and love him and name him George!

oriong
2007-01-21, 10:36 PM
heheh, amusingly enough that cat would still have 800+ hit points

mikeejimbo
2007-01-21, 10:42 PM
On a slightly related note, if the Tarrasque could be a PC, what should it's level adjustment be? I'd say at least +20

Aust_Arrowsplitter
2007-01-21, 10:43 PM
Damn. A housecat with 800 hit points? I don't care if it IS just a housecat, you're still screwed. do you know how much those claws HURT?!

Yeah, don't turn it into a cat... maybe like a goldfish or something, but a cat is just too evil.

Mewtarthio
2007-01-21, 10:44 PM
A Tarrasque would only be balanced in a party of other Tarrasques.

Mmm... a party of Tarrasques running around and adventuring...

krossbow
2007-01-21, 10:50 PM
Even mosquitos have intention, albeit intention to drink blood and spawn new mosquitos. The tarrasque has a violent intention since his intention is "kill and eat everything in the universe." The poor guy doesn't even mate. He is violence incarnate.






Well, if you had to go all your life without having sex, wouldn't you be pretty pissed off?

Dawnstrider_Moogle
2007-01-21, 11:07 PM
Well, if you had to go all your life without having sex, wouldn't you be pretty pissed off?

Now there's an adventure idea: the Tarrasque is devouring the world, and the only way to stop it is to somehow get it laid. An epic quest for the ultimate booty call!

mikeejimbo
2007-01-21, 11:37 PM
A Tarrasque would only be balanced in a party of other Tarrasques.

Mmm... a party of Tarrasques running around and adventuring...


Now there's an adventure idea: the Tarrasque is devouring the world, and the only way to stop it is to somehow get it laid. An epic quest for the ultimate booty call!

Combine the two. You're a group of male Tarrasques (Don't ask how there's more than one) on a quest to get laid. You're 33,000 years old and still a virgin!

Leisure Suit Tarrasque in: Looking for Love! Sierra and Wizards of the Coast get together to make the dirtiest game yet!

Renegade Paladin
2007-01-21, 11:42 PM
In theory, I can take out the Big T with a seventh level wizard. I just need summon undead IV to get an allip, and a lot of luck.

Of course, this only renders him comatose, rather than killing him, but it's still a pretty good trick.
Doesn't work at all. The Tarrasque is immune to ability damage.

NEO|Phyte
2007-01-21, 11:46 PM
Doesn't work at all. The Tarrasque is immune to ability damage.
Yes, but ability DRAIN is not amongst his immunities.

oriong
2007-01-21, 11:57 PM
All you need is a particularly perverse dragon willing to undergo an illusionary disguise (as whatever the hell the female tarrasque looks like). Those weirdos will mate with anything.

Of course, then you get a half-dragon tarrasque, who is stonger, smarter tougher, higher AC, better claw damage, possibly has a new immunity, a breath weapon and now has WINGS.

maybe it's not such a good idea...

Deus Mortus
2007-01-21, 11:58 PM
What is this tarrasque thing?

oriong
2007-01-22, 12:03 AM
What is this tarrasque thing?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm

Mewtarthio
2007-01-22, 12:03 AM
All you need is a particularly perverse dragon willing to undergo an illusionary disguise (as whatever the hell the female tarrasque looks like). Those weirdos will mate with anything.

Of course, then you get a half-dragon tarrasque, who is stonger, smarter tougher, higher AC, better claw damage, possibly has a new immunity, a breath weapon and now has WINGS.

maybe it's not such a good idea...

Ah, but then the Tarrasques would all have she-Tarrasques, and so they'd be happy again!

Divides
2007-01-22, 12:07 AM
would a tarrasque hold a decent challenge (but by no means insurmoutable) to a party of max'd out level 18 players?

It heavilly depends. The problem with the Tarrasque is that it's a one trick pony: melee combat... and it lacks vertical mobility :-p. A clever enough party with the right resources can take it out from out of it's reach, provided it can get enough damage off each round to out-race it's regeneration, at a much lower level than it's CR implise. Without that trick, I'd say the level 18 party will have difficulties... but it's doable.

Given that you mentioned an enemy army, I'm going to guess that there may be some "complications" with trying to just wear it down from out of reach. So, depending on the CR of the enemies and just how big a boost the PCs are getting, I'd say it SHOULD be doable, but again, it's going to take some clever PCs to do so without signifigant casualties.


GO FOR IT, MY MAN!!!
:-p.



I generally give a tarrasque either a breath weapon or insect like wings to avoid that cheese; it's really vulnerable to that.



But without planning, a level 18 party is in a bad situation, with planning it's no sweat.

Half dragon tarrasque!!!

Half dragon tarrasque!!!

Half dragon tarrasque!!!


... WHAT?!?!



I suppose so, but I didn't think the Tarrasque was bright enough to have any intention.

Technically, The Tarrasque is borderline sentient (Int 3).

RAW, it could be a PC if some goofy DM wanted to run the campaign :-p.


Speaking of which:


On a slightly related note, if the Tarrasque could be a PC, what should it's level adjustment be? I'd say at least +20

IMHO, it SHOULD have a pretty small LA... it's tought, but then again it's already got 54 hit dice, and not allot of tricks up it's sleeve.

I'm not sure what Savaga Species would say, thoguh. Your +20 probably isn't far off :-p.



All you need is a particularly perverse dragon willing to undergo an illusionary disguise (as whatever the hell the female tarrasque looks like). Those weirdos will mate with anything.

Of course, then you get a half-dragon tarrasque, who is stonger, smarter tougher, higher AC, better claw damage, possibly has a new immunity, a breath weapon and now has WINGS.

maybe it's not such a good idea...

Well, I DO think it's alignment shifts to match the dragon's... so as long as it's a METALIC dragon, it shouldn't be a problem.

Chromatic's, on the other hand...

oriong
2007-01-22, 12:17 AM
But no matter it's alignment it's still a tarrasque: an eternally hungry, Int 5 (due to dragon bonus) creature. Somehow I don't see it checking the moral fiber of those it's devouring : P

Divides
2007-01-22, 12:20 AM
But no matter it's alignment it's still a tarrasque: an eternally hungry, Int 5 (due to dragon bonus) creature. Somehow I don't see it checking the moral fiber of those it's devouring : P

I do.

I see it devouring every CORRUPT influence it stumbles across... but I think in lack of those our half-metalic T-man would just go to sleep until it is once again needed for the cause of good.


Given that I just went out of my way to say that, I now have the strong urge to beat myself to death with something large and blunt...

Mewtarthio
2007-01-22, 12:22 AM
But no matter it's alignment it's still a tarrasque: an eternally hungry, Int 5 (due to dragon bonus) creature. Somehow I don't see it checking the moral fiber of those it's devouring : P

This is the Tarrasque we're talking about. I bet that if it mated with a dragon, the offspring would be a dragon with the Half-Tarrasque template. And since Half-Dragons don't sleep nearly as much as True Dragons, it stands to reason that Half-Tarrasques would sleep less than the True Tarrasque. As such, they wouldn't be so hungry when they woke up.

DarkLightDragon
2007-01-22, 12:25 AM
A good draconic Tarrasque and an evil draconic Tarrasque? That would be scary :smalleek:

mikeejimbo
2007-01-22, 12:27 AM
This is the Tarrasque we're talking about. I bet that if it mated with a dragon, the offspring would be a dragon with the Half-Tarrasque template. And since Half-Dragons don't sleep nearly as much as True Dragons, it stands to reason that Half-Tarrasques would sleep less than the True Tarrasque. As such, they wouldn't be so hungry when they woke up.

Why not a Tarrasque with the Half-Dragon Template?

And would that bastard (literal sense here) have spells?

Divides
2007-01-22, 12:28 AM
A good draconic Tarrasque and an evil draconic Tarrasque? That would be scary :smalleek:

Great way to run a D&D world apocalypse: the tarrasque gets split into 10 parts, which are then magically bound to the essence of one of each color of "standard" true-dragon, creating corresponding half-dragon tarrasques... which then pair off and start fighting eachother :-p.

DarkLightDragon
2007-01-22, 12:34 AM
Great way to run a D&D world apocalypse: the tarrasque gets split into 10 parts, which are then magically bound to the essence of one of each color of "standard" true-dragon, creating corresponding half-dragon tarrasques... which then pair off and start fighting eachother :-p. I wouldn't be surprised if a certain campaign pops up soon... I'd join pretty quickly!

Mewtarthio
2007-01-22, 12:44 AM
I'd rather throw the Phrenic Tarrasque at someone, personally. You see, the thing about psi-like abilities is that they very rarely have an absolute cap. Also, all psi-like abilities are manifested fully augmented. That means that a first-level power used as a psi-like ability with ML 17 is effectively a ninth-level power. The Phrenic Template, applied to a creature with at least nineteen HD, gets sixteen PSAs, all but one of which are augmentable (the other one duplicates the manifester), all fully manifested at an ML equal to the creature's HD. For the Phrenic Tarrasque, that means fifteen PSAs fully augmented to 48 PP. That's (theoretically) like being able to manifest twenty-fourth-level powers. The DC of his Psionic Dominate is something like 38.

Wehrkind
2007-01-22, 12:46 AM
I think it would be fun to baleful polymorph big T into a house cat as mentioned, then mate it to all the cats in your neighborhood. I don't know if it would spawn a litter of tiny T's, or one T that would burst out of the unfortunate cat like an alien or what, but it would definitely be entertaining either way.

Or would it just make a lot of sleepy kittens?

Divides
2007-01-22, 12:47 AM
I think it would be fun to baleful polymorph big T into a house cat as mentioned, then mate it to all the cats in your neighborhood. I don't know if it would spawn a litter of tiny T's, or one T that would burst out of the unfortunate cat like an alien or what, but it would definitely be entertaining either way.

Or would it just make a lot of sleepy kittens?

My money's on sleepy kittens.

I've always ruled that Baleful Polymorph, unlike normal polymorph, messes with your effective genetics :-p.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-22, 12:05 PM
Wait, I just thought of the best Tarrasque half-breed.

Mate a Tarrasque with an Illithid. Then you get a large tentacled-faced being who sleeps for ages, until the time comes when he shall awake and feast on the minds of man!

Rigeld2
2007-01-22, 01:38 PM
Wait, I just thought of the best Tarrasque half-breed.

Mate a Tarrasque with an Illithid. Then you get a large tentacled-faced being who sleeps for ages, until the time comes when he shall awake and feast on the minds of man!
Illithids dont have genitals, and hence cannot mate. Theyre lacking a certain... something.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-22, 01:40 PM
Illithids dont have genitals, and hence cannot mate. Theyre lacking a certain... something.

Hmm, genetic engineering then? Take an Illithid cell and combine it with a tarrasque?

oriong
2007-01-22, 01:54 PM
Actually there is a half-illithid template. I believe it's what happens when an illithid attempts to convert an innapropraite creature into an illithid.

cferejohn
2007-01-22, 02:08 PM
Wait, I just thought of the best Tarrasque half-breed.

Mate a Tarrasque with an Illithid. Then you get a large tentacled-faced being who sleeps for ages, until the time comes when he shall awake and feast on the minds of man!

I think you need to throw some Aboleth in there too so it sleeps underwater...

Mewtarthio
2007-01-22, 02:16 PM
Fine. So we have a Phrenic Half-Fey Half-Illithid Half-Dragon Half-Fiend Tarrasque running around out there. Glowing eyes, red scales, brain-sucking tentacles all over his face, and leathery butterfly wings. Anything else!? Shall we graft some clay limbs onto him and make a Half Golem? Maybe throw an Air Elemental into the mix as well? Where's this guy's home environment: The Plane of LSD-Induced Nightmares?!

oriong
2007-01-22, 02:19 PM
Dude, come on.

Half-golem.

Cyborg tarrasque!!

not to mention it's now immune to Wish. I don't recall if it keeps it's Con score, that could put a damper on things.

Mewtarthio
2007-01-22, 02:20 PM
not to mention it's now immune to Wish. I don't recall if it keeps it's Con score, that could put a damper on things.

Yeah, the loss of a Con score ends his Regeneration, as well. Let's assume he makes the Will save.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-22, 02:31 PM
Fine. So we have a Phrenic Half-Fey Half-Illithid Half-Dragon Half-Fiend Tarrasque running around out there. Glowing eyes, red scales, brain-sucking tentacles all over his face, and leathery butterfly wings. Anything else!? Shall we graft some clay limbs onto him and make a Half Golem? Maybe throw an Air Elemental into the mix as well? Where's this guy's home environment: The Plane of LSD-Induced Nightmares?!

Seriously, it's an awesome tarrasque. Best one ever.

Given that there's only one, I guess that's not hard though.

krossbow
2007-01-22, 02:59 PM
Cyborg tarrasque? Dude, its the cyber demon from DOOM!
________
X Hamster (http://www.****tube.com/)

Divides
2007-01-22, 03:24 PM
Fine. So we have a Phrenic Half-Fey Half-Illithid Half-Dragon Half-Fiend Tarrasque running around out there. Glowing eyes, red scales, brain-sucking tentacles all over his face, and leathery butterfly wings. Anything else!? Shall we graft some clay limbs onto him and make a Half Golem? Maybe throw an Air Elemental into the mix as well? Where's this guy's home environment: The Plane of LSD-Induced Nightmares?!

I always assumed it was a dream-scape generated by love-crafts brain long ago (by which I mean the mid 30s)...

mikeejimbo
2007-01-22, 03:25 PM
I always assumed it was a dream-scape generated by love-crafts brain long ago (by which I mean the mid 30s)...

Incidentally, I believe that was right around the synthesis of LSD, and it wasn't illegal at first.

Where do you think he GOT his ideas,eh? :smallamused:

Divides
2007-01-22, 03:26 PM
Incidentally, I believe that was right around the synthesis of LSD, and it wasn't illegal at first.

Where do you think he GOT his ideas,eh? :smallamused:

...

Congratulations, you very well may have just permanently ruined my favorite set of horror stories of all time...

(But I doubt it :-p.)

mikeejimbo
2007-01-22, 03:28 PM
...

Congratulations, you very well may have just permanently ruined my favorite set of horror stories of all time...

(But I doubt it :-p.)

I fail to see how. Everyone knows that taking LSD shows you the Horrible Truth that makes Men Go Mad and all that. :smallbiggrin:

Divides
2007-01-22, 03:34 PM
I fail to see how. Everyone knows that taking LSD shows you the Horrible Truth that makes Men Go Mad and all that. :smallbiggrin:

Yeah... but I had always secretly hoped Love Craft was able to do it on his own =(.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-22, 03:37 PM
Yeah... but I had always secretly hoped Love Craft was able to do it on his own =(.

I'm actually not sure on the dates though. I think LSD was made in '27 and Lovecraft was writing before that.

Mewtarthio
2007-01-22, 03:38 PM
Yeah... but I had always secretly hoped Love Craft was able to do it on his own =(.

You mean you actually hoped that a sane, sober mind had come up with that stuff?

Divides
2007-01-22, 03:38 PM
You mean you actually hoped that a sane, sober mind had come up with that stuff?

Well, sober, anyway >.>.

Fireball.Man.Guy.
2007-01-22, 03:39 PM
A 5th level kobold can take it out instantly.

Divides
2007-01-22, 03:40 PM
A 5th level kobold can take it out instantly.

It can? How?!?

Darnon
2007-01-22, 03:43 PM
It can? How?!?

Two words: Pun-pun.

Green Bean
2007-01-22, 03:44 PM
It can? How?!?

Pun-pun :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: simu'd

Divides
2007-01-22, 03:48 PM
Two words: Pun-pun.

...

I now must kill all three of you for openly acknowledging that monstrosities existence.



(:-p.)

Lizard
2007-01-22, 03:59 PM
Pun-pun :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: simu'd

What the hell is pun-pun? I saw him, (it?) already mentioned few times on the forum, but I never dared to ask.
However I hope that in a topic that featured something like cyborg tarrasque there will eventualy come someone who can explain it to me....
(Yes I am a newbie...)

mikeejimbo
2007-01-22, 04:08 PM
What the hell is pun-pun? I saw him, (it?) already mentioned few times on the forum, but I never dared to ask.
However I hope that in a topic that featured something like cyborg tarrasque there will eventualy come someone who can explain it to me....
(Yes I am a newbie...)

Surely. Pun-Pun is a 5th level Kobold who effectively has all special abilities conceivable and infinite abilities and saves. Hold up a tick while I find a reference...

Edit: Here we are. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=491801

The kicker is that given the right sourcebooks, it's perfectly legal.

Aeyamar
2007-01-22, 05:06 PM
Actually, his +17 Spot check lets him almost always notice that something invisible is nearby (though he can't pinpoint it). As for Baleful Polymorph, you first have to beat his spell resistance (32, which is definately something of a challenge for thirteenth-level characters, eh?) and then hope he fails his Fortitude save (+38). But if it does work, then odds are you've found the only way to beat the Tarrasque that doesn't require a wish, miracle, or reality revision (in theory, Big T no longer regenerates when polymorphed into a small housecat).


For level 13 characters, the spell simulacrum can be used to kill the tarrasque. Also for level 18s.

the_tick_rules
2007-01-22, 07:07 PM
i still like my idea of creating a colossal portal covered with leafs for minimal camo to another dimension and stacking beef behind it. the tarrasque has an int of 3, he'd fall for it. the real question is, where do you want him to go?

mikeejimbo
2007-01-22, 08:02 PM
i still like my idea of creating a colossal portal covered with leafs for minimal camo to another dimension and stacking beef behind it. the tarrasque has an int of 3, he'd fall for it. the real question is, where do you want him to go?

The elemental plane of water, so he'll drown.

Rei_Jin
2007-01-22, 08:03 PM
The Plane of Positive or Negative energy. He'd either be drained of life until he withers into a lifeless husk, or explode in a shower of positive energy.

No more Tarrasque.

oriong
2007-01-22, 09:05 PM
For level 13 characters, the spell simulacrum can be used to kill the tarrasque. Also for level 18s.

No it can't I'm afraid. Unless you're using it in some odd way, you can't make a simulacra of the tarrasque at level 13. The spell only allows you to duplicate a creature whose HD are no more than twice yours, so it wouldn't be possible until level 24 (by which time you're above the tarrasque's CR anyway).

Mewtarthio
2007-01-22, 09:30 PM
i still like my idea of creating a colossal portal covered with leafs for minimal camo to another dimension and stacking beef behind it. the tarrasque has an int of 3, he'd fall for it. the real question is, where do you want him to go?

He still has a Wis of 14 and a Spot check to notice the trap. He also gets a Reflex save as is normal for falling into a pit unless you get him to Rush the beef somehow (if he can only Rush once per minute, I'd guess that it tiring enough that he's only inclined to use it if he's chasing something edible and fast-moving). How would you create the portal, anyway? The Gate spell would work if you build the camo trap over an empty pit and opened the Gate inside, I suppose, but you'll need line of effect, so you have to be in the pit, too. It doesn't really matter since Big T will fall through the Gate before he lands on you, but it seems to me like this would require some planning a good deal ahead of time. Since the Tarrasque is unpredictable in its movements, catching him may prove difficult.

No, what you should do instead is move earth a large pit into the ground, then get in the pit and create an Illusion of normal ground while your flying party that's busy harassing the Tarrasque (and throwing meat at him) lures him over the pit. Create the Gate when he's within a few rounds of the pit, and he'll fall in. Prep time is about ten minutes, which, if you've already found the Tarrasque, is doable.


The elemental plane of water, so he'll drown.

There's a lot of debate as to whether or not Big T can actually drown. According to his unique form of Regeneration, any effect that would otherwise kill the Tarrasque merely leaves him unconscious. Of course, most of those debates center around throwing him into the ocean, where things like swimming ability and buoyancy come into play. In the Plane of Water, he'll at least be unconscious until some idiot pulls him out (and they always do).


The Plane of Positive or Negative energy. He'd either be drained of life until he withers into a lifeless husk, or explode in a shower of positive energy.

No more Tarrasque.

Negative Energy won't work, since he's immune to energy drain. Positive Energy will either kill him or leave him in an eternal loop of "gain health, explode, go unconscious, heal, gain health, lather, rinse, repeat as desired," depending on your interpretation of the rules. If the latter, as above, it only lasts until some death cult Gates him back in.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-22, 09:41 PM
There's a lot of debate as to whether or not Big T can actually drown. According to his unique form of Regeneration, any effect that would otherwise kill the Tarrasque merely leaves him unconscious. Of course, most of those debates center around throwing him into the ocean, where things like swimming ability and buoyancy come into play. In the Plane of Water, he'll at least be unconscious until some idiot pulls him out (and they always do).

True, but at least if he doesn't drown he'll still be in a death-like slumber until a cult gates him out so that he can feast on man.

No matter where this goes, I'm bringing it back to Cthulhu.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-22, 09:50 PM
Heh. Half-Illithid Tarrasque. There's your Cthulhu.

Nahal
2007-01-22, 09:53 PM
Fine. So we have a Phrenic Half-Fey Half-Illithid Half-Dragon Half-Fiend Tarrasque running around out there. Glowing eyes, red scales, brain-sucking tentacles all over his face, and leathery butterfly wings. Anything else!? Shall we graft some clay limbs onto him and make a Half Golem? Maybe throw an Air Elemental into the mix as well? Where's this guy's home environment: The Plane of LSD-Induced Nightmares?!

Actually it's from the demi-plane of Eatthissia, home of GM-crafted nightmares to punish PC's that get too unruly, powerful or plot-destructy

mikeejimbo
2007-01-22, 09:56 PM
Heh. Half-Illithid Tarrasque. There's your Cthulhu.

Actually, that was discussed earlier on the thread.


Wait, I just thought of the best Tarrasque half-breed.

Mate a Tarrasque with an Illithid. Then you get a large tentacled-faced being who sleeps for ages, until the time comes when he shall awake and feast on the minds of man!


I think you need to throw some Aboleth in there too so it sleeps underwater...

But good catch. Insanely Disturbed Minds Think Alike, eh?

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-22, 09:58 PM
Man, I need to stop coming into these discussions late.

But Ctharrasque is awesome,

Talyn
2007-01-22, 10:10 PM
Hey, the Tarrasque was originally built back in 1st Edition to just be the ultimate revenge monster, right? It has no ecology, no society, and a huge amount of mismatched abilities that seem designed to do one thing - destroy a high-level adventuring party.

It was created by the gods to remind overpowered, munchkining PCs that there is ALWAYS something out there that can, in fact, eat them.

Wehrkind
2007-01-22, 10:27 PM
Gate him to the Demi-plane of Dread in the hopes the Vistani decide he needs to get back quickly, and send him back.

Preferably dressed as a belly dancer.

Jack Mann
2007-01-22, 11:35 PM
Yeah, the loss of a Con score ends his Regeneration, as well. Let's assume he makes the Will save.

The Tarrasque has a +20 will save. He can't fail the first two saves exccept on a one. Now, near as I can tell, the rules aren't clear on whether or not you need all limbs replaced, or only the ones missing. If you only need one limb to become a half-golem, and thus one save, the tarrasque succeeds 95% of the time (anything except a 1). If he has to have all limbs replaced, then he succeeds either 28.88% of the time (four limbs replaced), or 1.444% of the time (if the tail counts as a limb, making five replacement limbs, with the last save succeeding only one a natural twenty). At least, assuming I've gotten my math right.

So, either we're looking a near-certain chance of success, or it's probably doomed from the start.

Divides
2007-01-23, 01:02 AM
The Plane of Positive or Negative energy. He'd either be drained of life until he withers into a lifeless husk, or explode in a shower of positive energy.

No more Tarrasque.

No, those would just wind up dropping him to HP+10 subdual.


... actually, the Tarrasque on the positive energy plane would be amusing :-p.

"1500, 1600, 1700... KABOOM. -10, 140, 280, 420..."


(YES, I know positive energy plane doesn't heal that much... work with me here :-p.)

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-23, 01:14 AM
Hmm. Tarrasques are like perpetual energy machines.

And their shell has great anti-magic properties.

So, what if you subdued the Tarrasque but kept it alive solely so you could harvest it's shell over and over again to build your own city out of them? And then used the legs/body/whatever you want to feed everyone in the city forever?

I'm sure this is more then a little dangerous, but I think it'd be worth risking a few million NPC's.

Black Mage
2007-01-23, 01:53 AM
The scarey thing is...I read somewhere that there is actually an entire planet (or plane) of Tarrasques. And that the one in the MM is only a young adult.

Fear the Mother Tarrasque and her horde of baby Tarrasques!

Amiria
2007-01-23, 03:07 AM
Heh. Half-Illithid Tarrasque. There's your Cthulhu.

Half-Illithid isn't possible because of the peculiar reproduction method of illithids, as was mentioned earlier.

But the Half-Farspawn template would be legal, I believe - and it would fit very good thematically. It has tentacles, but I don't know if it has wings.

Ninja Chocobo
2007-01-23, 03:35 AM
Actually there is a half-illithid template. I believe it's what happens when an illithid attempts to convert an innapropraite creature into an illithid.
"Inappropriate" is just non-human.

Half-Illithid isn't possible because of the peculiar reproduction method of illithids, as was mentioned earlier.
It involves shoving an Illithid larvae into the brain of the creature, IIRC.
Given the Tarrasque's Int score of 3, it is unlikely that Illithid society will get around to EATING his feeble brain.

Jack Mann
2007-01-23, 04:31 AM
Hmm. Tarrasques are like perpetual energy machines.

And their shell has great anti-magic properties.

So, what if you subdued the Tarrasque but kept it alive solely so you could harvest it's shell over and over again to build your own city out of them? And then used the legs/body/whatever you want to feed everyone in the city forever?

I'm sure this is more then a little dangerous, but I think it'd be worth risking a few million NPC's.

Sheer Genius (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=261519)


"Inappropriate" is just non-human.

Non-humanoid. Generally, any humanoid, mammalian race of the right size will do. So, humans, elves, gith, grimlocks, gnolls, orcs, adn appropriate goblins will all do.

Ninja Chocobo
2007-01-23, 05:25 AM
Non-humanoid. Generally, any humanoid, mammalian race of the right size will do. So, humans, elves, gith, grimlocks, gnolls, orcs, adn appropriate goblins will all do.
No, Non-Human. Lizardfolk is the specific example given, and they're Humanoid.

Edit: Whoops, didn't see Mammalian. I feel stupid.

krossbow
2007-01-23, 12:22 PM
edit: Nevermind, already said.



Hmm... if a cadaver golem started attaching parts of the tarrasque to itself, would it get regeneration?

Mewtarthio
2007-01-23, 04:00 PM
Sheer Genius (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=261519)

You beat me to it!


Hmm... if a cadaver golem started attaching parts of the tarrasque to itself, would it get regeneration?

I don't think it can get something that requires a Con score.

AaronH
2007-01-24, 03:36 PM
You know, thinking about this, being able to chop away Tarrasque bits and they always grow back. I wonder what would be the properties of Tarresque bone as a special material?

Jack Mann
2007-01-24, 03:46 PM
Check out the thread I linked, Aaron. They get into Tarrasque parts as special materials, though they mostly focus on its blood and flesh.

Ninja Chocobo
2007-01-25, 02:40 AM
Question: If you cut off the Tarrasque's head, will it regenerate?

oriong
2007-01-25, 02:49 AM
Of course. The tarrasque can regenerate even from spells like disentigration. No form of mutilation will ever stop the tarrasque from regenerating (it might inflict continuing damage such that the regeneration never makes any headway though. But severing body parts doens't do that).

Ninja Chocobo
2007-01-25, 03:05 AM
In that case...
I have a plan to "improve" the Tarrasque's condition.
First, you unconscious-ize him so he won't kill you.
Second, you cut off all his limbs. The regeneration should keep them preserved enough. Some magic would help, maybe.
Third, Big T regenerates his limbs again.
Fourth, cut off his limbs again, and cut his torso in half. Once the rest of his torso regenerates in each case, re-attach the severed limbs.
Ta-da! Tarrasque Jr.

Rigeld2
2007-01-25, 07:07 AM
The regeneration should keep them preserved enough. Some magic would help, maybe.

If the tarrasque loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d6 minutes (the detached piece dies and decays normally).
If it dies and decays normally, then you wouldnt be able to reattach it really.

oriong
2007-01-25, 12:12 PM
Well the problem is that only the piece that is still 'the tarrasque' has the regeneration ability. so while you might sew all these parts together and have a tarrasque corpse you won't actually have something that regenerates and therefore it won't live.

kailin
2007-01-25, 12:18 PM
The tarrasque is nothing special, really, just a bundle of really high numbers with no big flashy tricks. Its excellent defenses against magic complicate things, but it's really not so nasty as all that. An 18th level party that knows they're going to fight it should be able to take it out, albeit after a long battle, with them having to hold a 9th-level spell back till the very end.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-25, 12:37 PM
In that case...
I have a plan to "improve" the Tarrasque's condition.
First, you unconscious-ize him so he won't kill you.
Second, you cut off all his limbs. The regeneration should keep them preserved enough. Some magic would help, maybe.
Third, Big T regenerates his limbs again.
Fourth, cut off his limbs again, and cut his torso in half. Once the rest of his torso regenerates in each case, re-attach the severed limbs.
Ta-da! Tarrasque Jr.

I would say you just cut it in half. Like a starfish.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-25, 03:48 PM
Funny enough, this was half of my explanation for why there's six Tarrasque's running around in my campaign. Of course, they were also imbued by a high level madman to serve as elemental guardians (fire, earth, air, water, lightning, almighty, as I wrote it) and have special powers/restrictions/weaknesses due to this.

Ninja Chocobo
2007-01-28, 07:42 AM
I would say you just cut it in half. Like a starfish.
Bah! That WOULD be simpler. and yes, I missed the bit about the detached portion dying normally.
Alternatively, you could just Clone him (with the spell).