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lytokk
2014-01-09, 05:57 AM
So, I finally convinced my wife to play D&D. *cue cheers, applause* Whether its going to be a good thing or bad thing remains to be seen. Told her to come up with a character idea, and she said that she basically wanted to be a shape shifter, like Mistique. Best thing that came to my mind was to go into druid and then Master of many forms. The idea is to make as simple of a build as possible so as to not confuse her.

After reading the MoMF, I've got a couple questions I could use some help on. When they turn into a humanoid, they just adopt the stats for the creature as per the norm for wild shape from the humanoid entry in the monster manual? or do they take the racial modifiers? I don't know why I would think this would be different, but for some reason it just feels a little weirder to me.

Also, is there any way to make the druid a little less complicated? I think she likes the idea of keeping her animal companion, but I don't know how keen she is on the spellcasting. If there was a simple way to get rid of it for something else I'd be fine.

We play in a pretty low OP group, mostly just optimizing for prestige classes, and most of us never take on more than 3 different classes.

Oh, the other rub, I'm the DM of the game and if anyone has any advice for keeping everyone happy while playing that'd be great. I want to make sure my wife has a good time, but I don't want to completely favor her out of the group.

Avigor
2014-01-09, 06:01 AM
One thought I'm having:

Any of several races that can change their appearance (not necessarily abilities) combined with a Rogue or similar class might get a similar feel. Capable of infiltration or stealth as needed, with Sneak Attack. Might also simplify the rules bits too.

Kelb_Panthera
2014-01-09, 06:05 AM
Mystique is just a changeling. Races of Eberron, ECS, or MM3. Pretty sure the MM3 version is the most recent but I doubt there's much difference between the three.

Maybe go factotum for the class? That's in Dungeonscape.

Grim Reader
2014-01-09, 06:06 AM
Use Wildshaping Ranger as entry to MoMF instead of Druid. Play a Changeling. Refluff the MoMF as developing the races inherent shapeshifting.

Kelb_Panthera
2014-01-09, 06:13 AM
Unless she's really up on the idea of shapechanging into -everything- MoMF may be a bit much for a newb. Polymorph type effects are a source of confusion for many and undeniably one of the most gamebreakingly powerful effects in the game.

If she's really keen on an animal companion that's just a feat (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) away.

Darrin
2014-01-09, 06:15 AM
Use Wildshaping Ranger as entry to MoMF instead of Druid. Play a Changeling. Refluff the MoMF as developing the races inherent shapeshifting.

Seconding this. Wildshape Ranger (http://dndsrd.net/unearthedCoreClass.html#simple-ranger) will be a lot easier to explain than druid spellcasting. You can either ease her into Ranger casting, or use one of the non-spellcasting ACFs. Use Changeling (MM3/Eberron) as the race, and she can play around with Minor Shape Change until she qualifies for MoMF.

I would also consider giving her the animal companion at full druid levels (or a Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a), so it keeps advancing while she's in MoMF) rather than the ranger's typical druid/2.

Emperor Tippy
2014-01-09, 06:24 AM
Ignore the LA and racial hit dice and go Factotum 3/ Wildshape Ranger 5+.

That does Mystique pretty well actually. Maybe strip the Detect Thoughts if you don't like that bit.

Martial Monk 2/ Targetteer Fighter 1/ Rogue 1/ Swordsage 2/ Factotum 5/ Exemplar 1 to finish it off.

lytokk
2014-01-09, 06:31 AM
I had thought about changeling and suggested it to her. Not sure how completely on board with it she was. But I bookmarked the pages in the books fro druids and changelings. Told her to read them both and decide which fluff she likes better, and we can work from there. I'd rather her not play a druid myself, since it is the purest T1 class and is also a little bit of a challenge to play right. basically just have to wait for her to decide. Told her to come up with a concept, and I'd find the options.

Jeff the Green
2014-01-09, 06:48 AM
Ignore the LA and racial hit dice and go Factotum 3/ Wildshape Ranger 5+.

That does Mystique pretty well actually. Maybe strip the Detect Thoughts if you don't like that bit.

Martial Monk 2/ Targetteer Fighter 1/ Rogue 1/ Swordsage 2/ Factotum 5/ Exemplar 1 to finish it off.

Must every build have either factotum or martial monk?

First, does she want the shape shifting to be primarily a roleplay ability, or should it have combat function too?

If the former, changeling rogue works well. Maybe psychic rogue, since its limited powers known make it fairly simple but give it some handy tools; just follow Psyren's guide and you'll be fine.

The latter is a bit more difficult. Neither wild shaping nor factotum are newbie-friendly. A good option would be wild shape ranger with the Druid shapeshift ACF. If she likes the animal companion, make it full-level like the druid's or use urban companion. If not, give her, I dunno, monk's AC bonus and Improved Natural Attack. Maybe PrC into warshaper.

For keeping the peace, explain to her that while it's the DM's job to make sure people are having fun, a lot of the fun of D&D is facing challenges with limited power and resources, so her character will fail sometimes and won't instantly be powerful. Also ask her (and the other players) what they want out of the game and what they worry about. That might be best asked privately so if your friends are worried about having your wife playing they are more comfortable telling you, you can reassure them, and your wife doesn't have to hear it. Finally be clear that if it turns out D&D isn't her thing that's okay, and that if she likes one aspect but not others there are other roleplaying games you could try.

Edit:
Also remember that, especially in this case, fluff is mutable. Let her tell you the fluff she wants and then help her build a character that can fill it regardless of the classes you use.

Arbane
2014-01-09, 06:53 AM
If she wants to be a combat shapeshifter, Go Changeling Unarmed Swordsage to (Overpowered) Warshaper? :smallbiggrin:

SiuiS
2014-01-09, 06:54 AM
I ended up making a home brew race at one point to model the lords of chaos, who were immortal and natural shapeshifters.

I took the easy way out. They got a modified shape change that didn't require becoming a specific critter. They could freely shift shape over a minute or make a con check to shift now. Changing to anything but another humanoid (or same type) instead used two +2 bonuses and a single -2 penalty, put however they wanted in physical attributes. A bonus was equivalent to a movement form or a survival method. They probably also has a choice of either armor or a size change. As they leveled up they could add a level adjustment to gain an additional +2 to stats.

The end result was a freely morphic but easily balanced creature. They always had at most, +4 stat, -2 stat, and adaptability. It broke when a heavily templates monster had access to a billion types and sub types, but that's an edge case.

I lead with this because in a low OP game it's better to wing it than bend rules to get a facsimile. Work out what mechanics you're comfortable with, work out how shifting deals with the disguise skill, and just say "okay, you have the shapeshifter subtype". Leading with a Druid wildshaper and maybe a changeling with an ACF and also master of many forms is basically saying "okay you can be a shape shifter, and also here are all these combat applications and skill uses and maximum amounts o your character you can have and..." And misses the forest for the trees.

Emperor Tippy
2014-01-09, 07:08 AM
Must every build have either factotum or martial monk?

Most everything that doesn't specify otherwise should, yes. :smalltongue:

Martial Monk 1 should be on virtually every melee build period. Either because it is saving you feats (letting you skip to the end of a feat chain) or because it is letting you pick up Weapon Supremacy.

Factotum 1 should pretty much be on every human build simply because of how it combines with Able Learner.

Factotum 3 should be on most every stealth or skill monkey build simply because of Brains Over Brawn.

Factotum 8 is just absurdly good. Imagine an 8 level PrC with Cunning Surge as its capstone. Or just Factotum as an 8 level PrC. Now do you see why I recommend it all the time?

It's pounce. It's lots of attacks. It's free quicken. It's fast movement. It's extra standard actions, and those are just about the most valuable currency in the game.

Grizzled Gryphon
2014-01-09, 07:11 AM
Mystique is just a changeling. Races of Eberron, ECS, or MM3. Pretty sure the MM3 version is the most recent but I doubt there's much difference between the three.

Maybe go factotum for the class? That's in Dungeonscape.Wow. That is the exact idea I had...

But, thinking about it, I would actually go rogue. Aside from changing form, Mystique never did anything magical that I can recall. But she was a snekky beach, thats for sure.

lytokk
2014-01-09, 08:04 AM
Unfortunately, I didn't get a whole lot of information out of her to start with. She said she wanted to be a shapeshifter, like mistique. I asked if she wanted to turn into just animals, or other humanoid creatures, she asked if she could have both. Druid was the first thing that came to mind, as is normal when someone mentions shapeshifting. Then the master of many forms to get humanoid forms. Going changeling could eliminate the need for MoMF for that shape, and wildshape ranger could make it much easier for her, cutting down on spellcasting and all that.

Would it be appropriate to trade all spellcasting for a full animal companion progression? I had a feeling from the get go that she'd want an AC with as much as she loves our dogs. Ranger doesn't have many other progressible class abilities to trade out and I feel that trading the favored enemy would be too big of a trade.

As I said, I don't want it to seem like I'm favoring her in any way over the rest of the players thus trading out class abilities arbitrarily feels like I'm close to crossing that line.

Also, I have no experience with factotum and I'm not going to put her into a class I don't fully understand, which also almost eliminates the ToB classes. I understand them, but I've never seen one in action.

sideswipe
2014-01-09, 08:39 AM
if its a low op campaign and she doesn't mind having a big level adjustment. then doppelganger can actually shapeshift and gain benefits from it. its less complex then a druid and isn't just a cosmetic change like changeling.

not particularly powerful. but sure to be fun.

lytokk
2014-01-09, 09:04 AM
unfortunately, party's still at level 3, so full doppleganger is out. I told her these guys existed, but was a bit beyond playability right now.

Segev
2014-01-09, 09:06 AM
What level are you starting her at? Is this a solo game, or is she with other PCs?

The dirt simplest build for doing what she's asking is a Changeling of any class, but the most core way to do it would be a Sorcerer with Disguise Self at level 1, and picking up Alter Self at level 4.

A wizard with those spells works, too, though will be able to cast them fewer times per day, which will show at level 1. The wizard would get to Polymorph a level sooner.

A druid gets to animal shapes faster, but doesn't get humanoid ones until much later, and doesn't get either until level 5. Slower to get to where she wants to be.

If you want simple, I don't suggest factotum. That could be my bias, though; I loathe the class as a horrible bit of "broken one way or another, never balanced" trash. It may or may not be tier 1, but I've never ever seen it played where it wasn't either useless or exploiting cheese on par in lameness with the bundle of manifester arrows.

lytokk
2014-01-09, 09:47 AM
Starting her at level 3, and will eventually get a template like the rest of the party. Just to sum up whats in the party we have:

Half Elf Sorceress with the greater Fey-Blooded template
Human Psychic Warrior with the Phrenic Template
Halfling Bard prestiging into Nightsong Infiltrator with a template I once again have to figure out.
Halfling rogue prestiging into Nightson Enforcer werebird
Human Cleric, NPC, healbot, potion maker, archery support

Pretty much cooked up a +2 LA template for everyone in the party, sans the NPC. All this just to give me a little wiggle room with challenge ratings.

Segev
2014-01-09, 09:57 AM
Hm. At level 3, either go with Changeling for the race (and take whatever class she likes) or just give her a Hat of Disguise.

Prime32
2014-01-09, 10:15 AM
I recommend a druid with the Shapeshifter ACF from PHB2. It's less powerful than Wild Shape but has way less bookkeeping - you just add modifiers to your stats rather than replacing everything, and you can turn into any creature of that general shape rather than having different entries for each. It's also available from level 1 rather than level 5, and can be used at-will for as long as you want, rather than a few times per day for 1 hour/level.

With a changeling Shapeshifter druid you can turn into just about anything with a minimum of fuss. Maybe enter the warshaper PrC later on.

lytokk
2014-01-09, 10:30 AM
Another thing I've been looking for and nt finding is a PrC for changelings specific to them. Such as the Warforged Juggernaut or the Shifter Master class. any changeling specific feat suggestions are welcome, google is not agreeing with me.

Prime32
2014-01-09, 10:34 AM
See Races of Eberron for that. The most notable stuff is Cabinet Trickster (a PrC that focuses mostly on mind-reading) and Racial Emulation (a feat that lets you count as the race you shapeshift into for all purposes, including items and PrCs).

Changelings also count as doppelgangers for the Chameleon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b) PrC in Races of Destiny (grants combat/spellcasting/stealth/whatever to emulate any other class, but only one at a time and switching takes too long to do it in combat).

Fouredged Sword
2014-01-09, 10:54 AM
I think a changling Factotum 8 / Chameleon 10 / Factotum 2 seems like Mistique to me. She can be anyone, fake any identity, and outsmarts everyone.

AlltheBooks
2014-01-09, 11:45 AM
Adding my voice to Changeling Factotum + seasoning, chameleon would fit nicely. Mystique is brilliant, urban, ultimate spy. Urban/shapechange ranger may work. The movies don't touch on it really but she's a genius. Could even refluff her default appearance as Mystique.

lytokk
2014-01-09, 12:12 PM
after looking at factotum, I'm going to have to say that class is out. Since using it would require a base understanding of every core class, I really don't think a brand new player would be up for it. Also being as I'm the DM, I don't have a ton of time explaining to her every round what she can do. While she's willing to learn, I need something lower on the curve just to get her in so she can see what the game is about, not overwhelm her with options.

That being said, changeling with glamered armor, should allow her to easily disguise herself as any medium humanoid without problems. Or is there a better enchantment out there to pull off some sort of clothing design change trick?

Wildshape ranger ensures she'll have the proficiencies needed to really pull off disguises and still turn into a small assortment of animals.

Also, does trading the rangers spellcasting for full animal companion progression sound like a balanced move?

RustyArmor
2014-01-09, 12:50 PM
Seeing as spell casting is probably the best ability in the game, I see no problem giving up spells to enhance an animal companion. Heck Id even give it a +2 level boost.

WhamBamSam
2014-01-09, 01:00 PM
Another thing I've been looking for and nt finding is a PrC for changelings specific to them. Such as the Warforged Juggernaut or the Shifter Master class. any changeling specific feat suggestions are welcome, google is not agreeing with me.The Changeling Rogue 1 substitution level is really good taken at first level. Changeling Rogue 1/Factotum 19 is how I'd probably build Mystique. That might also be a good build to get someone into RPing with, as it's an excellent party face. Also, you don't need to know all the other class abilities until ECL 20, by which time she'll probably be in the swing of things. You might have to help her with spell preparation at the beginning of the adventuring day, but that's not many spells to choose, and it won't change that much day to day.

Also, the Racial Emulation feat makes any race specific PrC a Changeling PrC, if you want it to be one. Some might argue that you lose the abilities of those PrCs if you ever assume a form other than that race, but that's probably not the case by RAW.

The Wildshape Ranger suggestions are also good. MoMF is probably a little much to take in for a new player though. Full Animal Companion progression in exchange for Ranger casting is a pretty good trade in most builds, but I'd say it's roughly balanced. It also makes Wildshape Ranger suck less in the early levels, which will be less discouraging for a new player.

If you go Druid you can actually turn into humanoid forms in a few ways without losing caster levels to MoMF. There's some Racial Substitution Level or other that does it, but at 12th level and beyond, my favorite way to do it is to use Dragon Wild Shape->Steel Dragon->Alternate Form (Gold and Silver Dragons also work, but Steel nets you some other nice benefits as well).

Jeff the Green
2014-01-09, 01:00 PM
Yeah trading spells for an improved AC is fine. I'd even suggest allowing her to also use one of the spell-less ranger ACFs. If she's like a lot of first-time rangers/animal lovers, she won't use the AC to its full capacity.

I'd still recommend swapping wildshape for the PHBII shapeshifing, however. Wildshape is confusing and a lot of bookkeeping: not a good intro to D&D. Plus you can shapeshift from level 1.

lytokk
2014-01-09, 01:03 PM
The problem I'm having with that shape shifting variant is you have to give up the animal companion to pull it off. Granted, a new animal companion is only a feat away...

I barely looked at it this morning before heading out, but will give it a better look when I get home.

WhamBamSam
2014-01-09, 01:08 PM
The problem I'm having with that shape shifting variant is you have to give up the animal companion to pull it off. Granted, a new animal companion is only a feat away...

I barely looked at it this morning before heading out, but will give it a better look when I get home.It just loses all the Combat Style stuff. The variant is among those on this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm) page of the SRD.

lytokk
2014-01-09, 01:17 PM
shape shifting variant on the druid, I understand the wild shape ranger losing combat style., the one in the PHII

WhamBamSam
2014-01-09, 01:41 PM
shape shifting variant on the druid, I understand the wild shape ranger losing combat style., the one in the PHIIAh, I see. I didn't read Jeff the Green's post carefully enough. RAW you can't apply that to a Wildshape Ranger anyway, so how you want to apply it, (ie if you want to just ignore the loss of the Animal Companion or trade out something else instead) is up to you.

Ranger Wildshaping isn't so bad though. You only get Small and Medium sized animals, and in a lowish op game just the things that make RP sense at the time ("oh I need to fly for this, I'll turn into a bird") plus the Fleshraker are plenty. You don't need all the fancy extra wildshape feats or grapple/trip forms or whatever to be effective. You can make do with a relatively small list of forms.

Also, even if you do go with Wildshape Ranger, starting out with Changeling Rogue 1 might still be a good idea. It's a solid dip in general, one that'll help get her into RPing, and a Sneak Attack dice might do more than you'd think when you've got a Fleshraker's attack routine and a build in flanking buddy.

lytokk
2014-01-09, 01:51 PM
I'll see what she thinks of taking the rogue level. Something occured to me though, I think she mentioned wanting to become a giant, not just giant sized, which brings it back to MoMF, and to the question regarding humanoid wild shaping. Would she just take on the physical attributes of the humanoid from the monster manual, or would she just use the racial modifiers if it was being used as a player character?

She would have to chose one of the more complicated mechanics in the game rather than something simple, like a fighter...

Segev
2014-01-09, 02:03 PM
Standard rules for shape changing usually have you take on the physicals of a creature average for its type. So you lift it right from the MM. You do NOT use the "if this was your race as a PC" entry, even if there is one.

lytokk
2014-01-09, 02:19 PM
Ok, just had to check on that.

Looking at all the options, and the fact that master of many forms is going to be a friggin nightmare for her, I think I'm going to have to recommend the changeling wildshape ranger, maybe with a rogue level or 2. It really keeps me from having to figure out the adjusted stats of all those monstrous humanoids or giants who have gear and such in their MM entries. Perhaps make sure she gets some sort of polymorph ability through whatever template I'm able to put together for her...

Or maybe I'll put together just a limited number of creatures she can change into with MoMF... I really don't want to have to give up the MM constantly.

ryu
2014-01-09, 02:31 PM
Ok, just had to check on that.

Looking at all the options, and the fact that master of many forms is going to be a friggin nightmare for her, I think I'm going to have to recommend the changeling wildshape ranger, maybe with a rogue level or 2. It really keeps me from having to figure out the adjusted stats of all those monstrous humanoids or giants who have gear and such in their MM entries. Perhaps make sure she gets some sort of polymorph ability through whatever template I'm able to put together for her...

Or maybe I'll put together just a limited number of creatures she can change into with MoMF... I really don't want to have to give up the MM constantly.

Just bookmark some of the really good forms available at any given point and show them to her. That should give a highly competent baseline without making her memorize the manual. I'd also recommend reading up on additional things being an allowed option. If someone new to the game is actively looking through the material it's a sign that immersion in the hobby is happening.

lytokk
2014-01-09, 02:39 PM
I think I'll go through the Monster Manual with her and pick a few of each type to use.

Stupid question, when shaping into a say, cloud giant for example, you don't get the chain shirt or the morningstar that comes in the entry correct? or is that considered to be part of the base creature?

ryu
2014-01-09, 02:40 PM
I think I'll go through the Monster Manual with her and pick a few of each type to use.

Stupid question, when shaping into a say, cloud giant for example, you don't get the chain shirt or the morningstar that comes in the entry correct? or is that considered to be part of the base creature?

I'm pretty sure you don't no.

lytokk
2014-01-09, 02:50 PM
alright, and that would really only matter for the humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, and fey, since most of the others I can think of don't actually use manufactured weapons and armor. And since we house ruled a while ago that magical clothing resizes to fit the wearer, no need to worry about... just have to worry about the weapons. Is sizing an enchantment for weapons or am I'm confusing something else?

Prime32
2014-01-09, 04:25 PM
Looking at all the options, and the fact that master of many forms is going to be a friggin nightmare for her, I think I'm going to have to recommend the changeling wildshape ranger, maybe with a rogue level or 2. It really keeps me from having to figure out the adjusted stats of all those monstrous humanoids or giants who have gear and such in their MM entries. Perhaps make sure she gets some sort of polymorph ability through whatever template I'm able to put together for her...

Or maybe I'll put together just a limited number of creatures she can change into with MoMF... I really don't want to have to give up the MM constantly.Does she really want powerful creatures, or does she want the freedom to turn into anything?

If suddenly she wants to turn into a snake, do you say "I know I said I'd let you play an awesome shapeshifter but no, you can't do that."? Or do you spend forever looking up the stats and how they apply to her, convincing her that the game is horribly confusing even for someone with years of experience?

I again point to the Shapeshift druid. If she wants to turn into a snake, or a different kind of giant next time, just figure out which form that falls under ("predator", "aquatic", "aerial" and so on) and she gets to describe it however she wants.

Learuis
2014-01-09, 04:59 PM
If you're willing to allow Pathfinder material, take a look at the Kitsune (https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinderogc/races/other-races/uncommon-races/arg-kitsune) using the Realistic Likeness (https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinderogc/feats/arg-feats/realistic-likeness-kitsune) feat.

Basically she is a fox-person who can mimic the physical features of anyone she has seen before. Plus one "natural" human form for herself.

Maginomicon
2014-01-09, 07:54 PM
If you like the flavor of the Factotum but aren't so keen on having all of those abilities, you could use the Savant class (Dragon Compendium). It basically slowly progresses through the abilities of the classic 4-man party (Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, Cleric) over the course of 20 levels.

Jeff the Green
2014-01-09, 08:01 PM
shape shifting variant on the druid, I understand the wild shape ranger losing combat style., the one in the PHII

Yeah, you can't apply that to wild shape ranger by RAW. However, it is less powerful than wildshape. Maybe mention to the other players that you'll also consider chaining ACFs/taking technically illegal ACFs for their characters if they want (so the sorcerer could trade her familiar for immediate magic if she wants). It's not going to imbalance anything.

Just take the wildshape ranger, drop wildshape, and put in shape shifting instead. Let her keep the AC and still consider making it full-level, since, again, shapeshift is weaker than wildshape.

Grim Reader
2014-01-10, 03:35 AM
I think it is a mistake to rule out MoMF because it may be "confusing". Just enforce the bit about needing to be familiar with the creature, letting her practice each form a bit. Basically a catalogue of forms rather than an infinity.

Dropping spellcasting for the animal is fine, but MoMF wont advance that. Maybe a cohort instead?

lytokk
2014-01-10, 06:39 AM
I had been thinking just making it a feat for the rangers AC to progress like a druid AND keep it progressing upon multiclassing. Since Animal Cohort is a feat in and of itself, and its only slightly less powerful that Animal Companion, it seemed appropriate to allow a single feat to do that.

She did decide on full druid last night, changeling race. We can refluff it a bit if she wants to more fit in with the changeling race, but that's for another conversation. Gave her a lot to think about in terms of her character, since this will be the first changeling anyone actually ever sees, didn't really write them into my campaign setting. Since she can easily disguise herself, told her she could really look like anything, or any race.

re_e
2014-01-10, 07:22 AM
alright, and that would really only matter for the humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, and fey, since most of the others I can think of don't actually use manufactured weapons and armor. And since we house ruled a while ago that magical clothing resizes to fit the wearer, no need to worry about... just have to worry about the weapons. Is sizing an enchantment for weapons or am I'm confusing something else?

About the size, alternate form/change shape have the following description:

Any gear worn or carried by the creature that can’t be worn or carried in its new form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and viceversa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.

But wild shape (with is based on alternate form) description says that any gear worn or carried by the druid melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional.

The sizing weapon enchantment is in complete adventurer, it is a +1 bonus, and needs enlarge and reduce person to craft.

Grim Reader
2014-01-10, 09:10 AM
I had been thinking just making it a feat for the rangers AC to progress like a druid AND keep it progressing upon multiclassing. Since Animal Cohort is a feat in and of itself, and its only slightly less powerful that Animal Companion, it seemed appropriate to allow a single feat to do that.

This means that anyone can get a Druid companion for one feat and a 1-level dip in Ranger. That will be very popular with the non-spellcasting classes.

lytokk
2014-01-10, 09:20 AM
I also play with multiclassing penalties, so 1 level dips aren't quite as popular in my games. Though I did get rid of the racial favored class and just decided its whatever you describe your character as, which 90% of the time is the highest level base class

Fouredged Sword
2014-01-10, 09:29 AM
Wild cohort means that anyone can get a druid animal companion for a feat anyway, so what is a method of spending a dip and a feat for a slightly better version going to change?

Just tell your wife that her character's mother cast too much transmutation magic during the pregnancy.

lytokk
2014-01-10, 10:00 AM
I was just going to play it as a normal changeling. The way my campaign setting is set up it makes for a lot of species interbreeding options so changeling really isn't far-fetched.

I did tell her if she decided to hide the fact that she's not a normal human/elf/orc/whatever she could have some fun with it. Suddenly appearing tan/paler than normal, changing hair color, having a beauty mark on her cheek all of a sudden switch sides. Stuff like that.

Urpriest
2014-01-10, 01:26 PM
I think it is a mistake to rule out MoMF because it may be "confusing". Just enforce the bit about needing to be familiar with the creature, letting her practice each form a bit. Basically a catalogue of forms rather than an infinity.

Dropping spellcasting for the animal is fine, but MoMF wont advance that. Maybe a cohort instead?

Number of forms isn't the confusing part of MoMF, though. The confusing part of MoMF is knowing the monster rules backwards and forwards, which you need to stat out any form and to understand how forms interact with buffs and so forth. This is something a lot of people don't learn until they DM, it's not really fair to dump it all on a new player.

Jeff the Green
2014-01-10, 01:35 PM
Okay, Druid. In that case I recommend the shapeshift variant with or without animal cohort even more strongly. She's going to have enough complexity with Druid casting and doesn't need to learn the monster/alternate form rules on top of it. Plus it works from the get go rather than having to wait two more levels for wildshape.