Please Help Me with A Level 1 Sorcerer (3.5)

[BillDon]

Hello! I'm new to D & D, although I've played a little bit of d20 before (star wars). I've decided to go with a sorcerer. Really like the concept of inane magic ability rather than learning extrinsically like a wiz. Starting at level 1. AFAIK I am restricted to PHB and Spell compendium, although if you guys have suggestions from other books please offer them! I'd like to do either an illusionist/necromancer or an illusionist/enchanter or an illusionist/evoker. I've got a million questions but I'll boil it down to the most vital ones for me.


First question. What level one spells should I take? As it stands now I've got color spray, silent image, and cause fear. I would take summon undead or summon monster, but summons only hanging out for 1round/lvl after taking the same amount of time to cast seems to make it a bit pointless to take one of those. I'd rather wait for SU or SM II/III. I'm worried about FF with Color Spray. As for evocation, see below.

Second question How do I deal with the fact that these low level evocation spells will almost inevitably leave my squishy character within striking distance of melee enemies? Shocking touch seems nice but why would I stand toe to toe with someone clad in armor head to toe?

Third Question Would you generally even recommend what I'm trying to do? I know there is a lot of leeway and DM discretion when it comes to illusion so am I better off doing something more straight forward like direct damage nuking? Is it better to diversify or stay focused?

Thanks ahead of time for your replies. Any feedback is much obliged, even if you say I'm going about it all wrong. I want to have a real immersive experience with this character, hopefully starting out as a magy elf who has to cunningly manipulate his way through early levels as he seeks out greater powers. I'm not into powergaming but at the same time if I gimp myself it won't be very fun.

[Runestar]

At first lv, I would recommend sleep. Note that it does take a full round to cast though.

As for your 2nd spell, I was thinking either grease (to give your sorc a trickster feel) or enlarge person (to buff the party fighter in situations where your attack spells are useless - what better way to ingratiate yourself?).

Personally, I would try to play a spell caster as a battlefield-controller *** buffer/debuffer, and leave the damage dealing to the fighters. This generally involves save-or-die/lose/suck spells like sleep, glitter dust, web, slow and stinking cloud, as well as buff spells like haste, benign transposition, summon monster3 and phantom steed.

[Segev]

Depending on how you feel about getting close (you seem to prefer not), Color Spray can be better than Sleep since it only takes a Standard Action to cast. But it does require you to be close enough to use the cone.

If you're concerned about DM discretion/leeway with illusions, the only way to be sure is to talk to said DM. Find out what he thinks you can do with Silent Image, and if you think that's enough to have fun with it, go for it.

[Raezeman]

I also recommend sleep over colour spray. Color spray can be good, but forces you to come very close, and as i once was a level 1 sorcerer myself, i know that basically any weapon can one-shot you with a decent attack role (how are your stats? my sorcerer had a Con modifier of 2, this 6 HP at level 1).

And yeah, i would wait for the summon spells until they last longer. Maybe think about mage armor, or shield for a boost in AC? I take your AC is going to be low, so any boost can be welcome to not die instantly. Especially if you can prepare for a battle and not have to spend a turn to use it.

Or indeed, silent image. i seem to have noticed that that spell is as good as the imagination of the user. One of my players used it pretty well at a time, and i rewarded him for it.

recommend it? Well, play what you will think what will be fun to play. But be careful, the funnest concepts can become annoying if you are vastly outperformed by the rest of the group in every way. So, question: how optimised is the rest of the group going to be, and does your DM expect you to be?
Then again, as a sorcerer, if you take some of those battlefield control spells that Runestar here mentioned, you can't really do all that much wrong. i think. please don't be mad if i'm mistaken.

[BillDon]

I'm definitely liking what you guys are saying about sleep; it fits my character both from a RP and gameplay perspective. It isn't that I don't want to get close, but more along the lines that I just can't risk it.

I've heard a lot about silent image. What do you guys think of this..lets say my party is pinned down. I'm cowering behind a tree and i want to create a duplicate of myself behind another tree to draw their fire. If I create an image of myself standing somewhere, can it walk around or is it just a frozen image that I would have to "slide" around? Can it move its arms and legs? Draw and shoot its figment bow?

I actually have a surrogate DM right now, the friend who got me involved in the first place. He plays in a group of lvl3 players, so he's gonna DM me in a solo campaign through the first 2 levels so i can get my bearings, see what I like, etc.

What would you guys recommend for feats? I was going to take spell focus conjuration so I could take augment summoning at one point, but I'm really wish washy over whether or not I want to do that. Summon undead really fits my character but it will make him evil. (although I think a CE would be cool to play) Summon monster list is kinda poor imo.

Another question. If I decide to make my guy CE, I don't have to kill everyone I see right? I mean, that would get me killed. I'd rather just be cold and calculating and I think that would be a nice add to the party dymanic. But question is, what's the excuse for having a lawful good person accept a CE along in a quest, regardless of the reason? I see work towards same goal, and I can see that, but does this ever happen?

[Chronos]

Color Spray leaves you in range of melee if the enemies make their saves. Sleep leaves you in range of melee before the enemies even have to roll their saves. It's really hard to justify a one-round casting time.

And if you're new to D&D, I would really, really recommend against playing an evil character. It can be done, but it requires players (both you and the others) who are both experienced with role-playing in general, and experienced at playing with each other specifically.

[Segev]

Yeah, for a first character, don't play evil. It's too tempting - especially as a CE guy - to play "That Jerk" that nobody enjoys having in the party. I don't know you, so I can't say what you really would play like, but I know that if you were coming to my game as a newbie that I didn't really know I'd be leery of allowing you to swim in the southern end of the alignment pool.

Silent Image allows you to control the image within the area of the spell, which you specify as a series of 10 ft. cubes when you cast it. You can't change what the image IS, but you can have it move around. Just remember that it's silent and that the more you have it do, the higher the chance the enemies will see it do something incongruous and learn to ignore it. This is especially true if you let them attack it!

[Callin]

Go with some sort of neutral. They can be very cold and calculating with out being a pain to the party. LN can be like Judge Dredd.

[Ansem]

Magic Missile, can't go wrong.
For the Evoker part, I currently have a blaster sorcerer with the following spell list:
lvl 0: Detect Magic, Predistigation, Message, Light, Detect Poison, Read Magic, Ghost sound, Arcane Mark, Mending
Lvl 1: Magic Missile, Wings of Swift Flying, True Strike, Ray of Enfeeblement, Grease
Lvl 2: Chain Missile, Wings of Cover, Essence of the Dragon, Shatter/See invisibility
Lvl 3: Explosive Runes, Fireball, Dispel Magic, Stinking Cloud/Shrink Item
Lvl 4: Wings of Flurry, Wall of Scales, Evard's Black Tentacles, Curse of the Elemental Lords
Lvl 5: Arcane Fusion, Undying Vigor of the Dragonlords, Manifest Dragon Heritage, Wall of Force/Wall of Stone
Lvl 6: Dragoncall, Greater Dispel Magic, Shadow Walk
Lvl 7: Arcane Spellsurge, Glorious Master of the Elements, Delayed Blast Fireball
Lvl 8: Greater Arcane Fusion, Greater Shadow Evocation, Prismatic Wall
Lvl 9: Superior Invisibility, Time Stop, Wish

Grease is extremely good battlefield control, also Sticky Floor which is better imho.

[BillDon]

I see where you guys are coming from on the whole CE alignment thing. Here's my idea for it. Please let me know your opinions.

He's striving towards great power. He wont go out of his way to kill, torture, etc. He looks at it like, basically, it is funner to mess with people than to kill them because murder essentially ends the fun. Plus, there is usually too much chance to get caught, which also ends the fun. He needs others to help him attain power; he is squishy and his powers are rooted in illusion, so he simply can't go out adventuring by himself, or at least not in a way that offers quick paths to great power. He looks at the party members like tools that he can use, not people. Might he save one of them in a pinch? Maybe..after all, he needs them. That's the same reason I wouldn't play him as always going against the party, defying them, etc. If you've got a busted sink and a handy neighbor, you may go out of your way to do what he wants if it might result in him fixing your sink. That doesn't mean you like your neighbor.


I think that type of character would be great to add to a group. It breaks up the monotony. The others wonder what the CE guy will do next. They wonder what his true motives are. Again, it's just an idea. I'm all for doing things a little different and sort of going against cliches.

My question is this; I have a legit rp reason (imo anyway) for the CE to join a party that has a mix of alignments (a lawful good, a lawful evil, and two that basically come out neutral). Do the other characters, especially lawful good, have any legit RP reason to bring the CE on board?
The DM is using a guild system, where if i'm not mistaken, adventures basically just band together to go questing.


Back to original idea...

What do you all think of the following lvl1/2 spells for an illusion based character trying to stay out of the fray?

Obscuring Mist, Ray of Enfeeblement, Disguise Self?

Detect thoughts, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Blindness/deafness?

(Character is an elf, plan to use longbow as a failsafe)

[Grod_The_Giant]

You don't sound very chaotic. NE at worst, I think.

Also, have you looked at beguiler? It's an enchanter/illusionist/rogue in a can.

[Runestar]

I think a case could be made for your character to be chaotic neutral. He doesn't actively seek to do harm and cause suffering to others, but he doesn't really care about the consequences of his actions either, and they sometimes do result in some problems for others.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by BillDon
Really like the concept of inane magic ability rather than learning extrinsically like a wiz.

I think you mean "innate."


Originally Posted by BillDon
I think that type of character would be great to add to a group. It breaks up the monotony.

In my experience, people who play evil characters "just to make things interesting" usually end up making things much worse for everyone, both the characters in-game and the players around the table. I would strongly discourage you from doing this.

You're new to D&D, so your first character will be a learning experience. Make sure it's a good experience, for yourself and for the other people you'll be gaming with.

[Captnq]

Read the noob guide (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9479.msg153181#msg153181).
Get the EVD (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11953.msg204497#msg204497).

Go to SPells/The Spell Lists
Search for:
^pSorcerer Spell List
^pSORCERER/WIZARD SPELL LIST

Look over your choices of 1st and 2nd level spells.
Go Back to EVD/Spells/The Spell Book

Search For ^p^p(the spell you are interested in)

Most of the interesting spells are explained with editorial comments.

[Particle_Man]

Also, have you looked at beguiler? It's an enchanter/illusionist/rogue in a can.

+1

The Beguiller can be found in the PHB II.

As for alignment, maybe start at Neutral and then let the DM and players tell you which way your alignment is drifting based on your actions. It is not like there is much of a game functional issue with your alignment as an arcane caster anyhow.

Also, why does your character seek power? What do you want to do with that power once it is gained?

[Segev]

I suggest saying he's True Neutral to start with, honestly, given that description. He might slip towards chaos or evil, but let it happen "naturally." And keep a weather ear out, OOC, to make sure that your IC behaviors are not unacceptable to the other players. It sounds like you've got a playable plan, but "I'm playing a CE character" always sets off warning bells because it's so often done in game-wrecking fashion.

As you're new to D&D, I'd not start with the goal of "being true to CE." You have a concept. Play it, be courteous OOC to the other players, and call it "TN" unless and until the DM says he's acting more chaotic or evil. Don't fight it if you slide that way, and be open about thinking it might fit there, but focus first on being party-friendly.

[Hurnn]

grease or color spray for offence and defense honestly then something utility , identify, feather fall, mage armor, expeditious retreat.

[Chester]

I would take summon undead or summon monster, but summons only hanging out for 1round/lvl after taking the same amount of time to cast seems to make it a bit pointless to take one of those. I'd rather wait for SU or SM II/III.

Remember, it gets better as you level up--they stick around longer. My Dread Necro now uses Summon Undead I to send peons to spring traps, cause diversions, scout ahead, etc.


Magic Missile, can't go wrong.

Hear, hear!



He wont go out of his way to kill, torture, etc. He looks at it like, basically, it is funner to mess with people than to kill them because murder essentially ends the fun. Plus, there is usually too much chance to get caught, which also ends the fun. He needs others to help him attain power; he is squishy and his powers are rooted in illusion, so he simply can't go out adventuring by himself, or at least not in a way that offers quick paths to great power. He looks at the party members like tools that he can use, not people.

Really, that's NE more than CE, but I agree with the others . . . evil isn't suited for a first character, and definitely difficult to play outside of a neutral or evil campaign.