PF Transmutation-enhancement vs. Conjuration-teleportation

[Dimcair]

Hello playground.

If you want it short: As the title says. What is the better choice for a Wizzard

Since my Party just died horribly to some medusa-like creature and some xd6es of falling damage, they are rolling new characters and even though my rogue came out of that with no damage taken (brushing dirt of my shoulder) I'll go ahead and roll a new one too.

I decided to play a Wizzard (5) and got stuck at choosing a school.

First I thought Transmutation-enhancement (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-schools/paizo---arcane-schools/classic-arcane-schools/transmutation) would be a good Idea. But then I realized the problem with enhancement bonuses. Usually I will want to cast foxxes cunning on myself since it has a +4 bonus and a much longer duration. Now we get very few/little? magical items through the campaign but if I would get any the bonus becomes obsolete anyways for the stat it gives me, is that right? So I could only use it for the armor or to buff something i rarely need like charisma on myself or buff other people entierly which is incredibly uneffective.

So now I am looking at Conjuration-teleportation (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-schools/paizo---arcane-schools/classic-arcane-schools/conjuration) which looks quite usefull since summoning **** is never a bad idea and some free teleportation isn't too shaby especially as a swift action.


Your oppinions? Am I stupid? Should I remind myself of the lvl 8 bonus of transmutation? Do you agree that the enhancement power is rather useless? I would very much like to hear some featback :smallsmile:

greetz, Dimcair

[Renegade Paladin]

Well, given that fox's cunning enhances Intelligence and the transmutation school power enhances Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution (none of which are Intelligence), the bonus not stacking with fox's cunning isn't a concern at all. :smallwink:

[Dimcair]

Well, given that fox's cunning enhances Intelligence and the transmutation school power enhances Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution (none of which are Intelligence), the bonus not stacking with fox's cunning isn't a concern at all. :smallwink:

Oh I am sorry, look up the subschool at the right side of the linked page. Enhancement.

Should have pointed that out more clearly.

/edit: Here on one page together.




Physical Enhancement (Su)

You gain a +1 enhancement bonus to one physical ability score (Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution). This bonus increases by +1 for every five wizard levels you possess to a maximum of +5 at 20th level. You can change this bonus to a new ability score when you prepare spells. At 20th level, this bonus applies to two physical ability scores of your choice.


Augment (Sp): As a standard action, you can touch a creature and grant it either a +2 enhancement bonus to a single ability score of your choice or a +1 bonus to natural armor that stacks with any natural armor the creature might possess. At 10th level, the enhancement bonus to one ability score increases to +4. The natural armor bonus increases by +1 for every five wizard levels you possess, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level. This augmentation lasts a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your wizard level (minimum 1 round). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.

Perfection of Self (Su): At 8th level, as a swift action you can grant yourself an enhancement bonus to a single ability score equal to 1/2 your wizard level (maximum +10) for one round. You may use this ability for a number of times per day equal to your wizard level.

VS.

Shift (Su): At 1st level, you can teleport to a nearby space as a swift action as if using dimension door. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You must be able to see the space that you are moving into. You cannot take other creatures with you when you use this ability (except for familiars). You can move 5 feet for every two wizard levels you possess (minimum 5 feet). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier

Summoner's Charm (Su)

Whenever you cast a conjuration (summoning) spell, increase the duration by a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your wizard level (minimum 1). This increase is not doubled by Extend Spell. At 20th level, you can change the duration of all summon monster spells to permanent. You can have no more than one summon monster spell made permanent in this way at one time. If you designate another summon monster spell as permanent, the previous spell immediately ends.

Dimensional Steps (Sp)

At 8th level, you can use this ability to teleport up to 30 feet per wizard level per day as a standard action. This teleportation must be used in 5-foot increments and such movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You can bring other willing creatures with you, but you must expend an equal amount of distance for each additional creature brought with you.

[Bigbeefie]

Depends what kind of character you wanna make. I like both regular transmutation and teleportation school. I highly recommend taking transmutation and being an elf. There favored class can get you a few uses of both adamixture ability and shift. They are worth knowing 2 adamixture and 1 shift a day. Then you get free buff to physical stats as well. Transmutation has the most spells so +1 transmutation spells at each lol will be more welcome and useful.

In short. Straight transmutation with no sub school.

[andreww]

Transmutation is giving you benefits which you get anyway from a magic item you will probably want. It saves you a small amount of money. The Teleportation School gives you a get out of grapple free card at level 1.

[Dimcair]

I highly recommend taking transmutation and being an elf. There favored class can get you a few uses of both adamixture ability and shift. They are worth knowing 2 adamixture and 1 shift a day. Then you get free buff to physical stats as well.

I assume you refer to this?


"Wizard: Select one arcane school power at 1st level that is normally usable a number of times per day equal to 3 + the wizard's Intelligence modifier. The wizard adds +1/2 to the number of uses per day of that arcane school power."

Glad you mention it. I stumbled upon this earlier and I can't figure out how to read this.
I don't think you get to choose 2 different ones (like adamixture AND shift) since it says ONE school at lvl ONE. So you will have to stick with it.
RAW I guess I can take one different power together with whatever ability my own school gives me. But is that RAI?

Last but not least, I add +1/2 to the number of uses per day of that arcane school power. Really confused now. DOes that mean I get to choose a different power and for every two favor class levels i get to use it 1/day?

/edit: Meaning that at lvl 5 I could have Shift 3+int mod/day And Adamixture 2/day?

[Dimcair]

Transmutation is giving you benefits which you get anyway from a magic item you will probably want. It saves you a small amount of money. The Teleportation School gives you a get out of grapple free card at level 1.

I think thats just the strongest reason and I really like to have that card....

[Bigbeefie]

Transmutation is giving you benefits which you get anyway from a magic item you will probably want. It saves you a small amount of money. The Teleportation School gives you a get out of grapple free card at level 1.

the OP said:


Now we get very few/little? magical items through the campaign

Basically I was thinking If he gets his hands on a Belt of Health or Dex he could augment his other stat with the Transmutation ability. This would help offset his groups low Magic items problem.



Glad you mention it. I stumbled upon this earlier and I can't figure out how to read this.
I don't think you get to choose 2 different ones (like adamixture AND shift) since it says ONE school at lvl ONE. So you will have to stick with it.
RAW I guess I can take one different power together with whatever ability my own school gives me. But is that RAI?

Last but not least, I add +1/2 to the number of uses per day of that arcane school power. Really confused now. DOes that mean I get to choose a different power and for every two favor class levels i get to use it 1/day?

/edit: Meaning that at lvl 5 I could have Shift 3+int mod/day And Adamixture 2/day?

Basically when you Level up you can add Half a usage of the school power of your choosing. Basically every 2 levels you can have 1 use of the ability. What you would do is Take Teleportation: Shift 2 times to get 1 use a day. Then take Adamixture 4 times and get 2 uses of the ability a day. I usally put first 3 levels of favored class into HP and then use the rest to give my Elf some boss abilities.

Basically a Level 5 Elf could have 3 HP and 1 use of Shift a day. By 7th level he can have 1 use of admixture making him a very crafty Wizard.

As far as get out of Grapple free cards if you Craft wondrous items and Make your Headband of Int you can choose what skills to get points in. A good one is Escape artist....This is another viable option for not needing Shift.

[Dimcair]

You are right, that was the way I saw it, I could just switch the enhancement bonuses around.

But concerning the favor. class I still think you guys read that wrong.


"Wizard: Select one arcane school power at 1st level that is normally usable a number of times per day equal to 3 + the wizard's Intelligence modifier. The wizard adds +1/2 to the number of uses per day of that arcane school power."

When will I ever be a FIRST level Wizzard again? Never. So there is no way off choosing a different arcane school power.

What I might end up doing is taking toughnes for the constant +1hp per level, choose the conjuration teleportation school and invest my favourite class into some Admixtures uses.

What do you think?
The other option is toughness, Transmutation and go for shifts.

[Spore]

I really prefer the Teleportation subschool.

You will use Conjuration spells on every slot anyways (Examples for the first 5 spell levels: Grease, Glitterdust/Web, Summon Monster III, Black Tentacles, Cloudkill/Teleportation) and having a free action teleport? Sold!

The Transmutation school is kind of lamo. The durations are far too short and weak to have an actual impact (Rounds/level beast shape? Telekinetic Fist that hits like a fly? Come on).

[Bigbeefie]

You are right, that was the way I saw it, I could just switch the enhancement bonuses around.

But concerning the favor. class I still think you guys read that wrong.



When will I ever be a FIRST level Wizzard again? Never. So there is no way off choosing a different arcane school power.

What I might end up doing is taking toughnes for the constant +1hp per level, choose the conjuration teleportation school and invest my favourite class into some Admixtures uses.

What do you think?
The other option is toughness, Transmutation and go for shifts.

My group Allows any 1st Level power anytime and doesn't limit it to just 1 other school. Its a first Level power and requires you 2 levels to Obtain 1 use of it. Doesn't seem game Breaking and we don't try to break the game with it. But that is our house rules.

Even only choosing 1 is still good. As there are a hand full of useful abilities.


choose the conjuration teleportation school and invest my favorite class into some Admixtures uses. This is currently what I am playing in the Wrath of the Righteous. I took the Superior+augmented summoning as well as Craft Wondrous Items. About to take my first Level of Lore Master at 11 and Finish the campaign as:
Elf Level 10 Teleportation Wizard/10 Loremaster MR 10

The Lore master will give me the equivalent of all the Defensive feats I wanted to take with the secrets. (toughness, Iron will, lightning reflexes, and great fortitude) And it will give me 1 of ANY feat. I just felt I would get more Power out of my elf that way.

[Dimcair]

5 Elf Wizzard
Arcane School: Conjuration-Teleportation
Banned Schools: Divination and Enchantment

2,5/day Admixture

Str 10
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 20
Wis 10
Cha 8

Feat Option 1:
1 Toughness
3 Defensive Combat Training
5 Spell Focus (Conjuration)
7 Augmented Summoning

Feat Option 2:
1 Toughness
3 Spell Focus (Conjuration)
5 Augmented Summoning
7 Defensive Combat Training

Feat Option 3:
1 Toughness
3 Spell Focus (Conjuration)
5 Defensive Combat Training
7 Augmented Summoning (Since I can (or will soon) summon some more good monsters at that point)

Should I grab Augmented Summoning that early? I hesitate spending 2 feats giving a summoned creature +4 Strength +4 Con. But increasing the DC of Grease/Web Etc seems very well worth it anyways So I tend to option 2.

Last, Instead of Admixture Versatile Evocation (Su): When you cast an evocation spell that does acid, cold, electricity, or fire damage, you may change the damage dealt to one of the other four energy types. This changes the descriptor of the spell to match the new energy type. Any non-damaging effects remain unchanged unless the new energy type invalidates them (an ice storm that deals fire damage might still provide a penalty on Perception checks due to smoke, but it would not create difficult terrain). Such effects are subject to GM discretion. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.


Prescience seems pretty nice aswell, not only to hit the spells you want to hit but also to jump over that 10 foot wide 100 foot deep pit....

Prescience : At the beginning of your turn, you may, as a free action, roll a single d20. At any point before your next turn, you may use the result of this roll as the result of any d20 roll you are required to make. If you do not use the d20 result before your next turn, it is lost. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.


/edit: Btw, I also decided to take a bonded Item (A ring I guess) instead of a familiar. For defensive purposes that free cast of any spell in the spellbook seems too good as an deffensive option. Is there a really strong reason not to do that?

[Bigbeefie]

Last, Instead of Admixture
That is basically the exact same thing lol. That doesn't matter to be honest pick which ever you like saying.

Prescience is good. Its one of those Handfuls of options for an elf to choose. But my DM makes you justify taking something from your prohibited school. How can you learn their ways and hold them to lesser esteem. If you like it better then pick it up. It is your character after all.

2ndly: I wouldnt take Defensive Combat Training if your taking Shift and the Level 8 upgrade. You will just teleport out of the situation and be done with it. If they grapple you tele, If they trip you...you should be flying but still tele out, they Disarm you....you don't care and teleport away.

3rdly: Arcane Bond- I just prefer the Familiar and taking Improved Familiar at 7. My DM lets me re-skin preset Familiar stats to a creature matching my imagination since it is part of the wizard. I typically Re-skin the Imp into what I want usually dropping the Poison for something else minor to justify it being Good aligned. I make sure it has hands and That I took dangerously curious Trait for UMD. At lvl 7 you have wand user who can blast out Haste on your turn then start de-buffing or blasting with Enervation, Fireball, Ray of Enfeeblement, ect ect.

This is action economy at its finest and blows the item out of the water.

4th: with #3 in mind I recommend:

First taking Alternative racial feature on elf: Arcane Focus: Some elven families have such long traditions of producing wizards (and other arcane spellcasters) that they raise their children with the assumption each is destined to be a powerful magic-user, with little need for mundane concerns such as skill with weapons. Elves with this racial trait gain a +2 racial bonus on concentration checks made to cast arcane spells defensively. This racial trait replaces weapon familiarity.

secondly for feats:

1:Improved Initiative
3:Spell focus Conjuration
5: Augmented Summoning
5: (your choice of Wizard bonus Feats) I recommend Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Wand, or Superior Summons
7: Improved Familiar

[Dimcair]

2ndly: I wouldnt take Defensive Combat Training if your taking Shift and the Level 8 upgrade. You will just teleport out of the situation and be done with it. If they grapple you tele, If they trip you...you should be flying but still tele out, they Disarm you....you don't care and teleport away.

Sold. I was mostly afraid of being bullrushed off something since that just happened to the majority of my party^^. But then I will just fly so... yeah that is that...



3rdly: Arcane Bond- I just prefer the Familiar and taking Improved Familiar at 7. My DM lets me re-skin preset Familiar stats to a creature matching my imagination since it is part of the wizard. I typically Re-skin the Imp into what I want usually dropping the Poison for something else minor to justify it being Good aligned. I make sure it has hands and That I took dangerously curious Trait for UMD. At lvl 7 you have wand user who can blast out Haste on your turn then start de-buffing or blasting with Enervation, Fireball, Ray of Enfeeblement, ect ect.

This is action economy at its finest and blows the item out of the water.


I know I know it just seems so good to have an extra spellslot at will.... but I know about the possibility of Wizzard Impr. familiars using Wands. But It wouldnt get the trait i think unless thats explicitly mentioned in the rules, I havent read throught the whole thing yet but it seems kinda shady to me so far. You think this is RAI? I don't want my DM to cry (or kill me for that matter). It is really only that spellcasting with wands that makes the familiar worthwhile, do I really just need 1 feat to pull that off?



4th: with #3 in mind I recommend:

First taking Alternative racial feature on elf: Arcane Focus: Some elven families have such long traditions of producing wizards (and other arcane spellcasters) that they raise their children with the assumption each is destined to be a powerful magic-user, with little need for mundane concerns such as skill with weapons. Elves with this racial trait gain a +2 racial bonus on concentration checks made to cast arcane spells defensively. This racial trait replaces weapon familiarity.


Here I am just not convinced that trying to cast defensively is just not worth the risk. The DC is so high that there is almost always a better option, Hell, even taking the chances that whatever threatens you misses might be the better play there. Am I wrong here?




secondly for feats:

1:Improved Initiative (If I get to take a trait i will go for a +2 Initative feat, leading up to a +8 on initiative, I guess going before whatever can hit you is worth more than 1hp/level. Unless there is a better option for a trait?)
3:Spell focus Conjuration
5: Augmented Summoning
5: (your choice of Wizard bonus Feats) I recommend Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Wand, or Superior Summons (as our DM plays it, even though there are little items available there is also not a lot of gold, so meeting the crafting costs might be hard. Still, guess it is just selling your feat slots. I will take Extend Spell here. And having whatever creatures on the board double as long>+1 to number summoned imo.
7: Improved Familiar

Thanks for the advice, it really helps making my decisions even though it seems that I reject some ideas =)

[Bigbeefie]

I know I know it just seems so good to have an extra spell slot at will.... but I know about the possibility of Wizard Improv. familiars using Wands. But It wouldn't get the trait i think unless that's explicitly mentioned in the rules, I haven't read through the whole thing yet but it seems kinda shady to me so far. You think this is RAI? I don't want my DM to cry (or kill me for that matter). It is really only that spellcasting with wands that makes the familiar worthwhile, do I really just need 1 feat to pull that off?

A familiar gets your skills...

Skills: For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master's skill ranks, whichever is better. In either case, the familiar uses its own ability modifiers. Regardless of a familiar's total skill modifiers, some skills may remain beyond the familiar's ability to use. Familiars treat Acrobatics, Climb, Fly, Perception, Stealth, and Swim as class skills.

The trait Dangerously Curious gives you UMD as a class skill and your familiar will have your ranks in that skill.

They do need hands to hold the wand/scroll as well

There is also the Ratling who can use scrolls without skills in UMD....tho UMD covers scrolls too.



Also with the right Improved Familiar they can act as scouts if they have right SLA or skills. They can also help in a variety of different ways.

I currently use mine as a Detect magic constant guy who sits on my shoulders invisible and will tell use when it detects magic traps or items and what items are magical so I wont shatter/break the magic stuff when I go to town. I can also Have him sit on the fighters shoulder....after I win initiative (it acts on my Initiative) I will unload my stuff and he will wand of Dimension Door the fighter next to a target. (if its safe as a free action Know-___ check for nasty abilities before the Port).

[Dimcair]

Any suggestions for a non-evil familiar? Are there any options that can't be targeted that easy even without a invisibility spell?

[Bigbeefie]

In the rules on Familiars:

As a player, you may desire a special familiar—either real, unique to your campaign world, or wholly imagined—that hasn't yet been presented with specific stats. With your Gamemaster's approval, however, it's easy to “re-skin” an existing familiar stat block to create the exact familiar you want.

The easiest way is to examine the Familiars and Special Abilities table and try to find the animal most similar to the one in your imagination, then use the source listed in the Statistics column to find its full stat block. For many animals, you'll be able to simply use that stat block for your familiar, in the same way that a parrot uses the same stats as a raven, and change only the flavor and descriptions. This way, you don't have to worry about tweaking the creature's mechanics, and your GM can rest easy knowing that the familiar is still balanced.



I always recommend re-tooling the Imp as it has the best stats (evil gets all the best **** and shouldn't). A already tooled Good Familiars are: Cassisian, Angel (LG), Faerie Dragon (CG), Dust Mephit (neutral), Azata lyrakein (CG)

Here is what I did to the Imp to "Re-skin" him:

I removed the Sting, poison, and Poison immunity (usually found on evil creatures) I gave him instead the (ex) from the Cassisian called Perfect Memory to replace the Sting. I also gave him True speech to replace Poison and the Immunity.
I then removed the spell Suggestion off his list and gave him the spell Ash Strom in its place. (as controlling the mind seems to be favored with evil creatures)

I then changed His appearance to look like a celestial version of the Imp....fair skinned with angel like wings. I said he is a volcanic spirit of good that will appear before a volcano eruption to ash storm a part of town in hopes to scare off villagers to their safety before the eruption. Not many people see these "guardians" due to their invisibility and shape changing properties.

[Dimcair]

IC. Thank you for the advice, I'll see what I can do.

cheers
Dim

[Reinkai]

In the rules on Familiars:

As a player, you may desire a special familiar—either real, unique to your campaign world, or wholly imagined—that hasn't yet been presented with specific stats. With your Gamemaster's approval, however, it's easy to “re-skin” an existing familiar stat block to create the exact familiar you want.

The easiest way is to examine the Familiars and Special Abilities table and try to find the animal most similar to the one in your imagination, then use the source listed in the Statistics column to find its full stat block. For many animals, you'll be able to simply use that stat block for your familiar, in the same way that a parrot uses the same stats as a raven, and change only the flavor and descriptions. This way, you don't have to worry about tweaking the creature's mechanics, and your GM can rest easy knowing that the familiar is still balanced.



I always recommend re-tooling the Imp as it has the best stats (evil gets all the best **** and shouldn't). A already tooled Good Familiars are: Cassisian, Angel (LG), Faerie Dragon (CG), Dust Mephit (neutral), Azata lyrakein (CG)

Here is what I did to the Imp to "Re-skin" him:

I removed the Sting, poison, and Poison immunity (usually found on evil creatures) I gave him instead the (ex) from the Cassisian called Perfect Memory to replace the Sting. I also gave him True speech to replace Poison and the Immunity.
I then removed the spell Suggestion off his list and gave him the spell Ash Strom in its place. (as controlling the mind seems to be favored with evil creatures)

I then changed His appearance to look like a celestial version of the Imp....fair skinned with angel like wings. I said he is a volcanic spirit of good that will appear before a volcano eruption to ash storm a part of town in hopes to scare off villagers to their safety before the eruption. Not many people see these "guardians" due to their invisibility and shape changing properties.

Nice tip, ty!

[Bigbeefie]

Nice tip, ty!

not a problem. I put a lot of work into my last Wizard and want others to benefit from it as well.