Hombrew desingers help me make a class.

[Elysian Blade]

Hello homebrewers I want to create a class where the weapons and armor fuse to the skin but dont know the key concepts.

What I would like it do is is say you put on a suit of fullplate armor (8 ac bonus)
you go through a faze called tender flesh flesh 1d4 days + ac bonus (armor only this part) When you do this you recieve only half of the bonus until the time period is over but when the period is up you get the ac 8 bonus into natural armor instead of armor and you can through another suit one but limit is only one suit able to fuse.

For weapons its 1d4 days plus the dmg it does /2 you can only fuse a weapon one size below your size or lower. when the fuse is complete you get the weapon and it classifies as a natural weapons and you get a bonus on your alignment chaotic evil gets 1d6 chaotic evil dmg on top of the other dmg plus 1d4 against light monsters.


I hope you see where I am trying to go with this I hope you can help me finish the design. Ask anything to help clarrify if needed I am open to any suggestions.

[Kazyan]

Does the class do anything else? I'm not sure having these two abilities is enough for 20 levels. Perhaps a prestige class, but if you want a full base class, it should have some other abilities--minor or passive ones that supplement the class.

[TheFamilarRaven]

One quick thing ... I am always willing to help with homebrew classes so I want to help you out, but there is one big problem I see right off the bat with this class. For most of my comments below, I am assuming you want this to be a base class.

First, I think you should reread and edit the armor fusing passage, because the grammar is a little confusing.

Second, the biggest problem I see is the amount of AC this class would have by 3rd or 4th level. Just by buying two sets of full plate, which is well within the wealth by level for the above levels, this class could have an AC of 26. And that's without shield and Dex Mod. Or worse yet, an AC of 30 if you allow mechanus gear (Planar Handbook).

The weapons seem fine, that's something that can be scaled by level, but the armor ability either needs a rework, or some sort of limitation.

Next, you have two strong ideas for this class, but not much else. It's a start, and they're both enough on their own to make a prestige class, but if you want this to be a base class, there needs to be more abilities.

My final assessment, this class would be easier to do as a prestige class than a base class. If you want it to be a base class, think of more ideas. That doesn't mean come up with mechanics, just ideas that will give me and others a better idea on which direction this class is going.

Hope this helps :smallsmile:

[Kazyan]

Second, the biggest problem I see is the amount of AC this class would have by 3rd or 4th level. Just by buying two sets of full plate, which is well within the wealth by level for the above levels, this class could have an AC of 26. And that's without shield and Dex Mod. Or worse yet, an AC of 30 if you allow mechanus gear (Planar Handbook).

This problem could be worked around by granting the armor fusion ability at level 8 or so. Related: I imagine only one weapon could be fused with at low levels, but the number would steadily increase.

[Seerow]

Honestly this sounds like a feat. Maybe a 3-5 level prestige class at most.


Any full class, or even 10 level class, with that narrow of a focus is going to be really gimped unless you expand on the concept significantly. Just as an example, see the Soulknife.

[TheFamilarRaven]

This problem could be worked around by granting the armor fusion ability at level 8 or so.

It still poses the problem of nearly having twice as much armor than other heavy armor and shield users. Unless enhancment bonus from magical armor is not taken into account when the fusing occurs, but still the amount of AC would be well above the ECL of the character. At least that's what I think.


Related: I imagine only one weapon could be fused with at low levels, but the number would steadily increase.

That's a good idea, I would also imagine that the class would not need to fuse with magical weapons to gain magical effects, they can just innately say "oh, today my scythe hand will be a +1 flaming scythe." Also, granted feats like weapon focus and weapon specialization to all the weapons they're fused with wouldn't be too shabby.

[Kazyan]

It still poses the problem of nearly having twice as much armor than other heavy armor and shield users. Unless enhancment bonus from magical armor is not taken into account when the fusing occurs, but still the amount of AC would be well above the ECL of the character. At least that's what I think.

At higher levels, the people with the best AC aren't wearing armor at all; they're Abjurant Champions or characters with Monk dips or whatever. It makes sense to have this ability at higher levels.

Maybe this concept would work better as an LA+1 race? Allow a fused weapon at 1st level and an additional one every 6 levels thereafter, and fused armor at 12 or somesuch.

[TheFamilarRaven]

At higher levels, the people with the best AC aren't wearing armor at all; they're Abjurant Champions or characters with Monk dips or whatever. It makes sense to have this ability at higher levels.

I'll admit, I'm not the best person to come to when it comes to building the "best AC", or best anything really. I've only really stuck with the original core books, with a few of the "Complete" line of books so i'm a little behind on the power creep. In general I look at at class's power relative to the core books, because we could spend all day arguing about the best AC combos with all the various books out there.:smalltongue:


Maybe this concept would work better as an LA+1 race? Allow a fused weapon at 1st level and an additional one every 6 levels thereafter, and fused armor at 12 or somesuch.

Wouldn't that just give the above class combos even more armor :smalleek:

It's could work though, i would just say make the bonus to natural armor half of the armor bonus from the armor. i.e fullplate would grant +4 natural armor. And enhancement would not be taken into account.

[Kazyan]

Wouldn't that just give the above class combos even more armor :smalleek:

Gah, point. It would definitely have to be LA+1, then, because when you mention LA to a caster builder, they hiss, recoil, and make the cross sign with their fingers.

Does Elysian Blade have any input?

[Elysian Blade]

Back on you gave me ideas Bonus feat first lvl and fast heal 1 and 2 level you can only fuse with light armor 5 level medium 8 lvl heavy. Throw in a bonus 1 fast healing every 3 lvls weapons gets stronger at 4 8 12 16 20. And put in two weapons 10th or so you can hide them inside you but doing so you take 1d4 or d6. maybe throw in some increased movement and some dr. And maybe alignment change does 1d6 for every step.


Sorry if its jumbled up was brainstroming.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'm with Seerow on this one-- It'd be a neat PrC, but you'd need a lot more to make a base class, I think. Active abilities, for the most part. Unique active abilities. There's certainly stuff you can do with a class that involves implanting yourself with magic items... sort of a homemade Inspector Gadget kind of thing.

Also, I don't think that double armor is ever a good idea. Fusing could still wipe out armor check penalty, weight, maybe even ASF and be worth it, though.

[Elysian Blade]

I'm with Seerow on this one-- It'd be a neat PrC, but you'd need a lot more to make a base class, I think. Active abilities, for the most part. Unique active abilities. There's certainly stuff you can do with a class that involves implanting yourself with magic items... sort of a homemade Inspector Gadget kind of thing.

Also, I don't think that double armor is ever a good idea. Fusing could still wipe out armor check penalty, weight, maybe even ASF and be worth it, though.

maybe make it give you half the ac to natural armor reduce the check penaty over a few lvls. and give element resistance towards later lvls. I know we can make this into a base class can someone make a table and we will fill it in.

As for abilities how about paying exp to give your weapon a boost every 4 lvls or so (+1 to dmg 80 xp) or something.

[TheFamilarRaven]

Gah, point. It would definitely have to be LA+1, then, because when you mention LA to a caster builder, they hiss, recoil, and make the cross sign with their fingers.

Even vampires and liches?


Does Elysian Blade have any input?

The world may never know ... in the mean time, Try this on for size.


The Iron Lord

Requirements:
In in order to qualify to be an Iron Lord a character must meet the following pre-requisites.
Weapon/Armor Proficiency: Martial/Heavy
Base Attack Bonus: +6
[b]Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (any melee), Weapon Focus (Any Melee), Endurance, [those are all I have right now]
Special: Must spend a month wearing heavy armor, without ever taking it off for any reason.

{table=head] Base Attack Bonus | Fortitude | Reflex | Will | Special
+1 | +2 | +0 | +0 | Weapon Fuse
+2 | +3 | +1 | +1 | Weapon Power Fuse
+3 | +3 | +1 | +1 | Armor Fuse
+4 | +4 | +2 | +2 | Material Fuse
+5 | +5 | +2 | +2 | Fuse Mastery[/table]

Game rule Information:

Weapon Fuse SU): Starting at 1st level, an Iron Lord may fuse any standard metal weapon they are proficient with with their body. This process take 6 hours of uninterrupted meditation. Once complete, the weapon disappears, and is part of an Iron Lord's body. Once a weapon is infused, it loses all magical properties it had. An Iron lord may manifest the weapon as an extension of their own body at any time. They are treated as having the Quick Draw[i] feat whenever they manifest their weapon. An Iron Lord may have a number of weapons fused with their body equal to their Iron Lord level.

An Iron Lord gains proficiency and weapon focus with any weapon they are infused with.

[b]Weapon Power Fuse SU): Starting at 2nd level, an Iron Lord may "learn" magical weapon properties by fusing with a magical weapon. The process is the same as [i]Weapon Fuse, only the Iron Lord is not required to fuse with the weapon. Instead, the Iron Lord learns the specific property of the weapon, and may apply it to any one of they weapon they are fused with.

The enchantment is specific. For instance, if an Iron Lord fuses with a +1 flaming weapon, the Iron Lord must apply the exact same property to a weapon they are fused with, they may not mix and match magical properties from other magical weapons they have fused with.

An Iron Lord choose a weapon's property at the beginning of each day, and the effects last for 24 hours, or until an Iron Lord dismisses the effect. Any number of enchantments can be learned, but an Iron Lord may not fuse with a magical item that has a total enhancement bonus over the Iron Lord's class level plus their constitution modifier.

Armor Fuse SU): Starting at 3rd level, an Iron Lord may infuse with any standard metal armor. This process requires the Iron Lord to wear the armor for 1d4 +1 days without taking it off. By the end of that time, the armor melds with the iron Lord's skin, and half of the armor bonus of the armor becomes natural armor. An Iron Lord may only be fused with one suit of armor at a time.

Material Fusing SU): Starting at 4th level, an Iron Lord may fuse with special materials, such as mithril, cold Iron, adamantium, etc, and may change any of their fused weapons to that material and gain its properties. Doing so requires a standard action.

In addition, the Iron Lord may also change the material of the armor they are fused with to either Adamantium or Mithril. Changing their fused armor to adamantium grants them DR 3/-, while changing to mithril grants them bonus movement 10ft. Transforming fused armor is a swift action, but must be done at the beginning of the Iron Lord's turn.

Fuse Mastery SU): By 5th level, the Iron Lord has mastered all forms of fusion. The Iron Lord gains weapon specialization with all weapons they are fused with, and the bonus to natural armor from armor fusion is now equal to the armor bonus of the armor fused.


Minus of few spelling errors and maybe the saves are a bit off, I think it's a solid PrC for those looking to have great AC and wide range of weapons.

[Elysian Blade]

Even vampires and liches?



The world may never know ... in the mean time, Try this on for size.


The Iron Lord

Requirements:
In in order to qualify to be an Iron Lord a character must meet the following pre-requisites.
Weapon/Armor Proficiency: Martial/Heavy
Base Attack Bonus: +6
[b]Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (any melee), Weapon Focus (Any Melee), Endurance, [those are all I have right now]
Special: Must spend a month wearing heavy armor, without ever taking it off for any reason.

{table=head] Base Attack Bonus | Fortitude | Reflex | Will | Special
+1 | +2 | +0 | +0 | Weapon Fuse
+2 | +3 | +1 | +1 | Weapon Power Fuse
+3 | +3 | +1 | +1 | Armor Fuse
+4 | +4 | +2 | +2 | Material Fuse
+5 | +5 | +2 | +2 | Fuse Mastery[/table]

Game rule Information:

Weapon Fuse SU): Starting at 1st level, an Iron Lord may fuse any standard metal weapon they are proficient with with their body. This process take 6 hours of uninterrupted meditation. Once complete, the weapon disappears, and is part of an Iron Lord's body. Once a weapon is infused, it loses all magical properties it had. An Iron lord may manifest the weapon as an extension of their own body at any time. They are treated as having the Quick Draw[i] feat whenever they manifest their weapon. An Iron Lord may have a number of weapons fused with their body equal to their Iron Lord level.

An Iron Lord gains proficiency and weapon focus with any weapon they are infused with.

[b]Weapon Power Fuse SU): Starting at 2nd level, an Iron Lord may "learn" magical weapon properties by fusing with a magical weapon. The process is the same as [i]Weapon Fuse, only the Iron Lord is not required to fuse with the weapon. Instead, the Iron Lord learns the specific property of the weapon, and may apply it to any one of they weapon they are fused with.

The enchantment is specific. For instance, if an Iron Lord fuses with a +1 flaming weapon, the Iron Lord must apply the exact same property to a weapon they are fused with, they may not mix and match magical properties from other magical weapons they have fused with.

An Iron Lord choose a weapon's property at the beginning of each day, and the effects last for 24 hours, or until an Iron Lord dismisses the effect. Any number of enchantments can be learned, but an Iron Lord may not fuse with a magical item that has a total enhancement bonus over the Iron Lord's class level plus their constitution modifier.

Armor Fuse SU): Starting at 3rd level, an Iron Lord may infuse with any standard metal armor. This process requires the Iron Lord to wear the armor for 1d4 +1 days without taking it off. By the end of that time, the armor melds with the iron Lord's skin, and half of the armor bonus of the armor becomes natural armor. An Iron Lord may only be fused with one suit of armor at a time.

Material Fusing SU): Starting at 4th level, an Iron Lord may fuse with special materials, such as mithril, cold Iron, adamantium, etc, and may change any of their fused weapons to that material and gain its properties. Doing so requires a standard action.

In addition, the Iron Lord may also change the material of the armor they are fused with to either Adamantium or Mithril. Changing their fused armor to adamantium grants them DR 3/-, while changing to mithril grants them bonus movement 10ft. Transforming fused armor is a swift action, but must be done at the beginning of the Iron Lord's turn.

Fuse Mastery SU): By 5th level, the Iron Lord has mastered all forms of fusion. The Iron Lord gains weapon specialization with all weapons they are fused with, and the bonus to natural armor from armor fusion is now equal to the armor bonus of the armor fused.


Minus of few spelling errors and maybe the saves are a bit off, I think it's a solid PrC for those looking to have great AC and wide range of weapons.

Hmmm... maybe. But I feel it needs more.

I think we should make them roll a fortitude save to be able to fuse something together. Also for the weapons we can make it so they get a bonus d6 every 4th lvl. Also I thought of changing armor you get tender flesh making you lose all ac from armor changing it a take a -4 to ac.

How do you like this for a 12th ability.

Release restrant
You supress your fused bonus all ac lost by doing so is transferred to you blade for 1d4 rounds.

Future lvls will change it.

[TheFamilarRaven]

Hmmm... maybe. But I feel it needs more.

I think we should make them roll a fortitude save to be able to fuse something together. Also for the weapons we can make it so they get a bonus d6 every 4th lvl. Also I thought of changing armor you get tender flesh making you lose all ac from armor changing it a take a -4 to ac.

How do you like this for a 12th ability.

Release restrant
You supress your fused bonus all ac lost by doing so is transferred to you blade for 1d4 rounds.

Future lvls will change it.


You should probably make a table because I still feel like you're describing a PrC rather than a base class. There's a thread somewhere that shows you how, or you can just click the "quote" button on my post a see how I did it. Once you have a table and some abilities down we can help you better.

[Grod_The_Giant]

As for abilities how about paying exp to give your weapon a boost every 4 lvls or so (+1 to dmg 80 xp) or something.
I mean, I'd be fine with level-based enhancement bonuses without any sort of cost. But while that's a fine ability, it's passive. When I say "active" abilities, I mean things like spells, maneuvers, invocations... things that let you do new things, as opposed to just making you better at the old stuff.

[Elysian Blade]

You should probably make a table because I still feel like you're describing a PrC rather than a base class. There's a thread somewhere that shows you how, or you can just click the "quote" button on my post a see how I did it. Once you have a table and some abilities down we can help you better.


The Iron Lord


{table=head] Base Attack Bonus | Fortitude | Reflex | Will | Special
+1 | +2 | +0 | +0 | Weapon Fuse/Fast healing 1 stances 1
+2 | +3 | +0 | +0 | Bonus Feat Armor Fuse(2ac)
+3 | +4 | +1 | +1 | Damage Resistance 1
+4 | +4 | +1 | +1 | Energy Resistance 5*
+5 | +5 | +1 | +1 | Weapon Fuse Improved/ Fast Healing 2 Stances 2
+6,+1 | +5 | +2 | +2| Bonus Feat/Damage Resistance 2
+7,+2 | +6 | +2 | +2| Armor Fuse (4ac) Armor Fusion
+8,+3 | +6 | +2 | +2| Energy Resistance 5*
+9,+4 | +7 | +3 | +3| Weapon Fuse*/ Fast healing 3
+10,+5 | +7 | +3 | +3| Damage Resistance 3/ Material Fuse/ stances 3
+11,+6,+1 | +8 | +3 | +3 | Armor Fuse (6ac)
+12,+7,+2 | +8 | +4 | +4 | Armor Fusion/ Energy Resistance 5*
+13,+8,+3 | +9 | +4 | +4 | Weapon Fuse* Fast Healing 4
+14,+9,+4 | +9| +4 | +4 | Damage Resistance 4 Bonus Feat
+15,+10,+5 | +10 | +5 | +5| Armor Mastery (all ac) stances 4
+16,+11,+6,+1 | +10 | +5 | +5 | Weapon Mastery/ Fast Healing 5/ Regeneration
+17,+12,+7,+2 | +11 | +5 | +5 | Damage Resistance 5 Bonus Feat
+18,+13,+8,+3 | +11 | +6 | +6 | Fast Movement 10ft/ Energy Resistance 5*
+19,+14,+9,+4 | +12 | +6 | +6 | Fuse Mastery
+20,+15,+10,+5 | +12 | +6 | +6 | Bonus Feat, Unstoppable, Unmovable. stances 5 [/table]


I mean, I'd be fine with level-based enhancement bonuses without any sort of cost. But while that's a fine ability, it's passive. When I say "active" abilities, I mean things like spells, maneuvers, invocations... things that let you do new things, as opposed to just making you better at the old stuff.

Weapon Fuse SU): Starting at 1st level, an Iron Lord may fuse any standard metal weapon they are proficient with with their body. This process take 6 hours of uninterrupted meditation. Once complete, the weapon disappears, and is part of an Iron Lord's body. Once a weapon is infused, it loses all magical properties it had. An Iron lord may manifest the weapon as an extension of their own body at any time. They are treated as having the [i]Quick Draw[i] feat whenever they manifest their weapon. An Iron Lord may have a number of weapons fused with their body equal to their Iron Lord level.

An Iron Lord gains proficiency and weapon focus with any weapon they are infused with.

Weapon Power Fuse SU): Starting at 6th level, an Iron Lord may "learn" magical weapon properties by fusing with a magical weapon. The process is the same as Weapon Fuse, only the Iron Lord is not required to fuse with the weapon. Instead, the Iron Lord learns the specific property of the weapon, and may apply it to any one of they weapon they are fused with.

The enchantment is specific. For instance, if an Iron Lord fuses with a +1 flaming weapon, the Iron Lord must apply the exact same property to a weapon they are fused with, they may not mix and match magical properties from other magical weapons they have fused with.

An Iron Lord choose a weapon's property at the beginning of each day, and the effects last for 24 hours, or until an Iron Lord dismisses the effect. Any number of enchantments can be learned, but an Iron Lord may not fuse with a magical item that has a total enhancement bonus over the Iron Lord's class level plus their constitution modifier.

Armor Fuse SU): Starting at 12th level, an Iron Lord may infuse with any standard metal armor. This process requires the Iron Lord to wear the armor for 1d4 +1 days without taking it off. By the end of that time, the armor melds with the iron Lord's skin, and half of the armor bonus of the armor becomes natural armor. An Iron Lord may only be fused with one suit of armor at a time.

Material Fusing SU): Starting at 5th level, an Iron Lord may fuse with special materials, such as mithril, cold Iron, adamantium, etc, and may change any of their fused weapons to that material and gain its properties. Doing so requires a standard action.

In addition, the Iron Lord may also change the material of the armor they are fused with to either Adamantium or Mithril. Changing their fused armor to adamantium grants them DR 3/-, while changing to mithril grants them bonus movement 10ft. Transforming fused armor is a swift action, but must be done at the beginning of the Iron Lord's turn.

Fuse Mastery SU): By 20th level, the Iron Lord has mastered all forms of fusion. The Iron Lord gains weapon specialization with all weapons they are fused with, and the bonus to natural armor from armor fusion is now equal to the armor bonus of the armor fused.




Well pick a few that you think will be good? Rage/Stone Dragon what?

I need more things in here towards the end I was losing it so what do you suggest?

[Grod_The_Giant]

I need more things in here towards the end I was losing it so what do you suggest?
Well, if you want maneuvers, I'd go Stone Dragon/Iron Heart/Devoted Spirit.

If you want non-maneuver options... hmmm...

The ability to plug in charged magic items (wands, staffs, x/day wondrous items) and power them using your own energies somehow.
The ability to fuse multiple different weapons/armor/shields and switch between them.
Providing enhancements to fused equipment.
The ability to craft wondrous items (including a craft reserve) that only function when fused to you.
Draining fused magic items for... some benefit.
The ability to heal by eating metal.

[Elysian Blade]

Well, if you want maneuvers, I'd go Stone Dragon/Iron Heart/Devoted Spirit.

If you want non-maneuver options... hmmm...

The ability to plug in charged magic items (wands, staffs, x/day wondrous items) and power them using your own energies somehow.
The ability to fuse multiple different weapons/armor/shields and switch between them.
Providing enhancements to fused equipment.
The ability to craft wondrous items (including a craft reserve) that only function when fused to you.
Draining fused magic items for... some benefit.
The ability to heal by eating metal.


I was thinking for the energy one whichever element you put it in on a later lvl if someone hits you it does 1d6 plus con mod. and which one it is it gives a special affect.

[Megaware]

You could give armor fusing as early as level 1 or 2 if you build in a level based cap on how much Natural ac you can get from the fusing. Half level would be a bit too fast but you could do 1/3 level round down, minimum 1 bonus to Natural ac for fusing armor. I don't see any reason to limit which armor you can fuse into your character if you go this route.

[Elysian Blade]

So first lvl 1ac
4rd 2
7th 3
10th 4
13th 5
16th 6
19th 7
20th all of it.

[TheFamilarRaven]

I know you're probably more focused on abilities right now, but fix the saving throw listing on your table. Fortitude should go ...

+2
+3
+3
+4
+4
+5
etc
ending at +12

And all your secondary saving throws should

+0
+1
+1
+1
+2
+2
+2
+3
+3
+3
etc
ending at +6

[Elysian Blade]

I know you're probably more focused on abilities right now, but fix the saving throw listing on your table. Fortitude should go ...

+2
+3
+3
+4
+4
+5
etc
ending at +12

And all your secondary saving throws should

+0
+1
+1
+1
+2
+2
+2
+3
+3
+3
etc
ending at +6

Thank you fixing it tomorrow.

Is that it because I feel its not finshed I am going to do info but I think it needs a little more.

[Elysian Blade]

Is it good right now?

[TheFamilarRaven]

Is it good right now?

Perfecto ... I'll have a more indepth look over your abilties when I get the time, as of now I am currently busy.

Keep up the good work. :smallsmile:

[Elysian Blade]

Perfecto ... I'll have a more indepth look over your abilties when I get the time, as of now I am currently busy.

Keep up the good work. :smallsmile:

okay then. :smallbiggrin: