Dip for knowledge?

[CyberThread]

If I was doing a dip just for knowledge. One level , of anything .


What best class would be served in such a function ?

[Nettlekid]

Cloistered Cleric gets 6+Int skill points and the Knowledge Domain for free, which means that all Knowledges will be class skills from that point on. It also grants Turn Undead and two other domains, many of which can be useful in some kind of build.

[EugeneVoid]

Factotum is do-able too

[Shyftir]

Psion gets Knowledges right? Pick a power that buffs what you are doing and it gets you another little boost on top of it.

Edit: Yes, and make sure the power you use is Call to Mind.

[Taklinn]

Is human paragon a cop out?

edit: how about archivist?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Dragonfire Adept-- gets you all Knowledges as class skills and semi-decent skill points, but more importantly, it gets you the Draconic Knowledge invocation, granting a +6 untyped bonus and letting you make the checks untrained.

[nedz]

It depends upon what your build is trying to do. E.g. Human Paragon might be good for some builds, others not so much.

[Thurbane]

The following base classes get all Knowledge skills as class skills (have I missed any?):

Adept
Archivist
Aristocrat
Bard
Cleric (Knowledge domain)
Dragonfire Adept
Duskblade
Erudite
Expert
Factotum
Human Paragon
Magewright
Marshal
Psion
Savant
Shugenja
Truenamer
Wizard
Wu Jen


Dragonfire Adept-- gets you all Knowledges as class skills and semi-decent skill points, but more importantly, it gets you the Draconic Knowledge invocation, granting a +6 untyped bonus and letting you make the checks untrained.
If this fits with the character build, it's an excellent suggestion.

[nedz]

There are some ACFs
Changeling Rogue can choose any one skill as a class skill

And Feats
Educated
Cosmopolitan
Draconic Knowledge
Apprentice
Knowlege Devotion

A template
Primordial Giant

There are more options for specific Knowledge skills

[Amphetryon]

Human Paragon, assuming the Race meshes, is the option least likely to clash with an otherwise unspecified build concept.

[Segev]

Were I trying for maximal knowledge out of a first level character, regardless of other class and build constraints thereafter, I would take:

Dragonfire Adept with the Draconic Knowledge invocation as my first level
Hidden Talent: Call to Mind as my first level feat

This lets me make all Knowledge and Spellcraft checks untrained and adds a +6 untyped bonus to all Knowledge and Spellcraft checks. It also allows me, at least twice per day, to take a minute to get a re-roll with ANOTHER +4 on a knowledge check I failed.

[cerin616]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6832.0

Excellent source for getting skills

[CyberThread]

Hmm, can anything else be done with the Dragontouched, and 1d6 breath. I like +6 invocation option the best I think.

[Segev]

If you can find anything that allows people to heal from fire-typed damage, the 1d6 becomes a group heal for your party.

Dragontouched...it does what it does. I can't think of any really awesome exploits for it that don't involve going deeper into dragonfire adept.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Hmm, can anything else be done with the Dragontouched, and 1d6 breath. I like +6 invocation option the best I think.
You can drop a feat on Entangling Exhalation (Races of the Dragon) to auto-entangle anyone caught by your breath weapon for 1d4 rounds.

Depending on what else is in your build, there are a lot of great feats that require the Dragonblood subtype-- Dragonfire Inspiration? Accelerate Metamagic? Dragon Wings/Improved Dragon Wings? (if you dip at first level)

[CyberThread]

Do you think that 6 trumps bardic knowledge/knack ?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Do you think that 6 trumps bardic knowledge/knack ?
Bardic Knack makes the bard a great skillmonkey, but only as long as he keeps advancing the ability (either through bard level, or classes like Sublime Chord that stack Bardic Knowledge coupled with a reasonable DM). As a one level dip, it's crap.

[Maginomicon]

An important detail to note:

Unless the skill is said as "always a class skill for you" (there are numerous things that do this), once you leave that class it stops being a class skill for future skill points you spend in it.

Thus, for example, skill points spent in Cloistered cleric to get knowledge skills as class skills are only 1 point per rank while you're taking those class levels. As soon as you multiclass or PrC out, ranks cost 2 points.

[Vhaidara]

Do you think that 6 trumps bardic knowledge/knack ?

Bardic knowledge depends on your dm. It will either become knowledge(metagaming) or be completely useless.

[Thurbane]

An important detail to note:

Unless the skill is said as "always a class skill for you" (there are numerous things that do this), once you leave that class it stops being a class skill for future skill points you spend in it.

Thus, for example, skill points spent in Cloistered cleric to get knowledge skills as class skills are only 1 point per rank while you're taking those class levels. As soon as you multiclass or PrC out, ranks cost 2 points.
If you qualify for the Able Learner feat, you can get around that.

[Coidzor]

If I was doing a dip just for knowledge. One level , of anything .


What best class would be served in such a function ?

Depends on what the rest of the build is, no? :smalltongue:

[Invader]

What's the impetus for dipping a class just for knowledges over just paying the skill points for them. Unless it's for something drastic losing a class level just to gain knowledge doesn't seem like best choice.

[Dusk Eclipse]

An important detail to note:

Unless the skill is said as "always a class skill for you" (there are numerous things that do this), once you leave that class it stops being a class skill for future skill points you spend in it.

Thus, for example, skill points spent in Cloistered cleric to get knowledge skills as class skills are only 1 point per rank while you're taking those class levels. As soon as you multiclass or PrC out, ranks cost 2 points.

That actually got houseruled away in my group when we noticed it, once a class skill, always a class skill for both ranks and costs*; for our group it didn't make sense, you are a rogue and know how to hide really well, but because you decided to focus a little more in combat (IE multiclassing to fighter) it suddenly becomes more difficult to continue to improved (higher skill rank). We do however considering leveling up a long and drawn out process, there is no downtime to level up. It happens naturally during the course of the campaign.

We also house-ruled Able learner into removing the cross class skills increased cost, so a rogue 1 with able learner could spend 2 SP on spellcraft and get 2 ranks.


*Yes, that means a 1 level dip in Factotum gives you all skills forever, but so far nobody has done that.

[Maginomicon]

*Yes, that means a 1 level dip in Factotum gives you all skills forever, but so far nobody has done that.
Or Savant... or Exemplar...

[Dusk Eclipse]

Savant is Dragon Compendium right? Nobody in my group has used so far, even though we have access to it. I didn't know Exemplar also had all skills as class skills, still my point stands. Even if we have the option nobody has taken it yet.

[CyberThread]

Depends on what the rest of the build is, no? :smalltongue:


pish fine then


Kaorti 2/Knowledge dip 1/ Fiend of possesion 6/ tome of battlestuff 10

Feats catch eye so far Magic in the blood , awaken frightful presences if can make it run off of class levels not just racial levels.

[Grod_The_Giant]

If you qualify for the Able Learner feat, you can get around that.
Able Learner doesn't interact with Bardic Knack at all. The feat has to do with actual ranks; the ACF is based entirely on Bard level and explicitly doesn't stack with your ranks.

[Randomocity132]

Also gonna say Cleric with Knowledge Domain.

[Thurbane]

Able Learner doesn't interact with Bardic Knack at all. The feat has to do with actual ranks; the ACF is based entirely on Bard level and explicitly doesn't stack with your ranks.
Ah, that was actually a misquote by me, I meant to quote the post above the one I actually quoted. :smallredface:

Fixed.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Ah, that was actually a misquote by me, I meant to quote the post above the one I actually quoted. :smallredface:

Fixed.
That makes a lot more sense. Sorry.

[Chronos]

Quoth Dusk Eclipse:

That actually got houseruled away in my group when we noticed it, once a class skill, always a class skill for both ranks and costs*; for our group it didn't make sense, you are a rogue and know how to hide really well, but because you decided to focus a little more in combat (IE multiclassing to fighter) it suddenly becomes more difficult to continue to improved (higher skill rank).
Well, yeah, that's what focusing in something else means. By the same token, if you start as a fighter and multiclass to rogue, suddenly it's harder to improve your combat prowess (i.e., you get less BAB).

[Thiyr]

I will also recommend the cleric dip (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2773). Such a useful dip if you set it up right.