Xykon's astral fortress as a possible explanation for Team Evil's delay

[diplomancer]

There has been some speculation on board regardin Xykon's astral fortress and whether the order will have to go there. Some have argued that the Giant would not have introduced it if he did not plan for the OOtS to go there because of conservation of detail.

I'm not sure if someone has mentioned it already (I wasn't able to find it anyway), but I think the main reason for the existence of the Astral Fortress is to justify Xykon's delay in getting to Windy Canyon after he and Redcloak leave Azure City. Xykon specifically claims that he's "got a bunch of scrolls to fire off, and then a list of cleric spells I'm going to need you to prepare and cast on the joint." Therefore, the Astral Fortress has already fulfilled its narrative role and I believe it won't be necessary for the order to go there.

[BaronOfHell]

Could it not also just have been something more mundane (which we were never told what was), and then Xykon simply returned later? For that matter, RC could under those circumstances also have retrieved the phylactery a little later.

[Keltest]

Could it not also just have been something more mundane (which we were never told what was), and then Xykon simply returned later? For that matter, RC could under those circumstances also have retrieved the phylactery a little later.

RC already had the Phylactery. he gave Xykon a fake, remember?

[BaronOfHell]

I know.. not sure in what way I gave the impression that RC gave Xykon his original phylactery.

My intended point was that they left as soon as they found the phylactery and Xykon had returned. Had Xykon returned a little later or had RC secured the phylactery a little later, I think it'd have been the same outcome, hence no Astral Fortress explanation required, in my opinion.

(I don't think RC would have given Xykon the fake before retrieving the real phylactery).

[AKA_Bait]

Personally, I think the astral fortress was just a nod to the long standing D&D "lich hides his phylactery in some ridiculous dungeon" trope (e.g., Tomb of Horrors).

[Dalek Kommander]

The main narrative purpose of the astral fortress is to have Xykon think his phylactery is safe. We probably only "go back there" in the abstract sense that when things start looking bad for Xykon he will console himself that at least his phylactery is still safe, and Redcloak will either dramatically reveal the truth or just smirk knowingly and humor him. If we have a cut-away scene at all, it would probably to reveal the location of the real phylactery, not the fake one.

[Shale]

I do think we're going to see the fortress again, but to play devil's advocate: if Xykon had returned later, or Redcloak had found the phylactery later, then that whole sequence would have had to happen later in the comic, which would break the narrative flow of the Girard's Pyramid plotline.

[BaronOfHell]

But sequences of different scenes do not have to happen in chronological order, as long as the chronological order is correct when parties of each scene meet.

[Snails]

The main narrative purpose of the astral fortress is to have Xykon think his phylactery is safe. We probably only "go back there" in the abstract sense that when things start looking bad for Xykon he will console himself that at least his phylactery is still safe, and Redcloak will either dramatically reveal the truth or just smirk knowingly and humor him. If we have a cut-away scene at all, it would probably to reveal the location of the real phylactery, not the fake one.

Agreed. Xykon needs to have a clear explicit plan other than leave the phylactery in Redcloak's hands. The fortress is sufficiently impressive that we can accept Xykon would believe it safe. If Xykon just said "I put it somewhere safe and secret" that would be okay, but it would annoy readers more -- it seems like a hint of a future reveal.

Furthermore: (1) it is just plain fun to show a weird astral fortress, (2) the MitD gets to hint at his nature by talking about how much he likes the astral plane.

Now that I think about it, that very last part is probably the hidden agenda on the Giant's part: it is just a clever roundabout way for the MitD to talk about something that may be important in the future.

[NerdyKris]

I'm on the fence. I think it's a good 50/50 chance that it's either there to say "Xykon thinks his phylactery is super safe" or "It's going to be part of the story.".

We know that the ritual takes weeks to cast. And that's assuming Serini didn't set up one heck of a defensive system at Kraagor's gate. We know Girard's Dorukan's rune trap did a pretty good job of holding off Xykon, to the point where he wanted the Order to make it to his throne room and deactivate it. So he might be delayed even longer by some other system. So there's plenty of time for the Order to go somewhere else first.

I'm very curious what the Order's next move is going to be. Fly straight to Kraagor's gate, or attempt to find out who is watching the warning beacon for it. And don't forget Ochul and Lien are likely already in the area investigating.

[Dash]

I do believe that the surest argument against it mattering is as follows:

1) The Order does not know about it.
2) The Order has no way of finding out about it.
3) If the Order, for example, asked "where is Xykon's phylactery?" to the Oracle or what have you, they still would not know about it.
4) It is utterly meaningless to the plot, since the "phylactery" contained within is fake. (This, I think, is the most important point, at least as far as forecasting its relevance to the story.)

Why is it there? Well, Xykon being away building it allowed for the scene where Redcloak announced the founding of Gobbotopia, among other things. "Conservation of detail" was not the impression I got when it was mentioned. If anything, it just seemed like a subtle joke-- he poured a bunch of time and spells into something completely useless, unbeknownst to him, and his lack of knowledge thereof is almost certainly going to end up being his doom. Yes, I believe it's only there to explain the delay and also show that Xykon is taking steps to protect his phylactery, as he's expected to. (Not to mention everything that happened in Azure City while Xykon was gone.)

Frankly, I doubt it will ever even be mentioned again.

[Ghost Nappa]

Xykon was studying a spell that would allow him to drink coffee as a lich. It's taken years of research and the difficulty throughout the ordeal has left him a little bitter.

[Cavenskull]

...We know Girard's rune trap did a pretty good job of holding off Xykon, to the point where he wanted the Order to make it to his throne room and deactivate it....
You spelled 'Dorukan' wrong. :smallwink:

[NerdyKris]

You spelled 'Dorukan' wrong. :smallwink:

Yikes. Yeah, Dorukan.

[oonker]

The reasons as to the existence of the Astral Fortress:

1 - MITD revealing part of his nature
2 - Xykon becoming overconfident that, whatever happens to his body, he will begin anew in a safe place (and maybe getting destroyed because of this)
3 - explaining the delay in TE getting to Girard's gate
4 - it is cool to show

[Jaxzan Proditor]

For some reason, I doubt that the Astral Fortress will have any plot relevance. It is just there to show that Xykon think he has a back up in case something goes wrong, not knowing that he doesn't have the real thing. Plus, I don't really see how the Order would find the fortress.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I think it might show up as a flashback, or maybe a bonus strip in this book, but I really can't see the story going there. Then again, Rich has max ranks in 'Pulling the Rug Out From Under Fan Theories', so anything goes.

[Ridureyu]

I can see the Order being forced to fight through it only to learn that there is no phylactery inside.

Or I can see it never come up again.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Oh Gods of Gaming, I just got a mental image of Belkar as Mario, jumping to rain death from above only to find out the Princess phylactery is in another castle.

[Lexible]

Xykon's fortress presents one way of resolving the Oracle's prophecy for Belkar, while at the same time giving him a happy ever after. The main story arc can complete with Belkar retiring to the sized and claimed astral fortress:

1. no breathing on the Astral Plane.

2. relatedly, no eating and drinking on the Astral Plane (including birthday cakes).

3. Residing on the Astral Plane can be argued to be outside the world of the OOTS, so his repairing thither satisfies the not beling long for this world bit.

4. Rocking out with an Allosaur on an asteroid in the Astral Plane would be metal (bonuses for a Githyanki girfriend).

EDIT: Plus time doesn't pass there the way it does on the material planes, thus, no more birthdays.

[SlashDash]

Umm... Here's my 2 cents, I'm flat out saying this is an opinion, not a single word here is actually established as fact...



It is quite possible that by the final match up, the monster in the dark will switch sides (after being revealed) due to his friendship with O-Chul.
The Giant hinted that O-Chul will have a huge part to play and I'm guessing getting the monster to just hurry up team evil for the next gate isn't it.
Then again I could be wrong...

Start of Darkness spoiler

We are already expecting him to devour Red Cloak


If that is the case (and again, this is just speculation) this will negate half the people here questioning "how will they find out about the fortress" because the monster will know the way and possibly even possess astral travel as was hinted in the same strip.

[Keltest]

Oh Gods of Gaming, I just got a mental image of Belkar as Mario, jumping to rain death from above only to find out the Princess phylactery is in another castle.

They already did that joke though