Pathfinder Gnome Illusionist Concept Questions

[ZekeTheRogue]

A little background to my quandary first: So, me and akolbi are trying to start a campaign with 4(or less) new players(note: I am not a new player). I have a pretty good idea of two characters (rogue and ranger) out of the expected four other players. Akolbi is trying to keep our classes and such from each other to have a random party composition. I want to play a gnome illusionist. His story is that he is a circus ringleader by family trade but he studies magic. I'm trying to give it some wiggle room so I can add more as my concept develops.

My question to you guys, is if I should play a sorcerer or a wizard. Not asking for optimization, but what makes more sense given the tiny shred of story I've given you. I will probably add more to the story on this post if it gives me ideas.
Edit: please base anything you have off pathfinder core books. We don't use 3rd party.
Edit: We start at 5th level.

[SamsDisciple]

I would think that a circus performer would be a sorcerer. If you do this then make sure that you know the limitations of your illusions and then get creative as you push the limits since you won't have very many different spells. Also remember that the image spells don't give a save until they are either interacted with or actively scrutinized

[ZekeTheRogue]

I would think that a circus performer would be a sorcerer.

That's what akolbi said. Thanks!

[stack]

Gnome racial stats favor sorcerer, but either could work. Circus does imply some showmanship, fitting sorcerer. There are some very versatile illusions, depending on your creativity and dm, so you should be fine, though make sure to pick up generally useful stuff as well; don't overspecialize.

[grarrrg]

illusionist

I'll just leave this (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/veiled-illusionist) here...

[ZekeTheRogue]

I'll just leave this (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/veiled-illusionist) here...

I don't know if he'll let me take that. We don't have that book. Thank you though

[Psyren]

Bard fits more with "performer who studies magic." The other two would be more like magic-users who dabble in performing.

Having said that, if you're set on the primary casters anyway I'd go with sorcerer - both for the stat synergy with gnome as well as the general benefits Charisma will have for your performances. Good bloodlines for your concept are Maestro, Shadow or just plain Arcane.

[ZekeTheRogue]

Gnome racial stats favor sorcerer, but either could work. Circus does imply some showmanship, fitting sorcerer. There are some very versatile illusions, depending on your creativity and dm, so you should be fine, though make sure to pick up generally useful stuff as well; don't overspecialize.

Thanks for the advice. I guess I'm biased towards wizards, because unlimited spells known and earlier access to higher spells. I'll have to really pick and choose my illusions as a sorcerer. It will definitely be new for me.

[ZekeTheRogue]

Bard fits more with "performer who studies magic." The other two would be more like magic-users who dabble in performing.

Having said that, if you're set on the primary casters anyway I'd go with sorcerer - both for the stat synergy with gnome as well as the general benefits Charisma will have for your performances. Good bloodlines for your concept are Maestro, Shadow or just plain Arcane.

Bard does seem more perform-y. I was kind of shooting for the "magic user who dabbles in performing" more than straight performer. Like the ringleader of the circus. I think that's going to the first post. Thanks.

[Segev]

Illusions are actually a good one for sorcs, because the "biggies" are 1-2 spells per spell level. The sorcerer can spam them, but has enough other spells known to pick a few useful backup tools.

I'd go with Disguise Self and Silent Image as 1st level spells known. Ghost Sound as an obvious 0th. You're not a damage-dealer; make sure your party knows of your illusionist tricks, however, and you can set up fake walls, false terrain, etc. as Silent Images which they can see through but your foes cannot. Create Water, if you can get ahold of it somehow, will let you drench a fairly large area with a quick downpour before using Silent Image to raise an "Obscuring Mist" off of it. This will block sight...except to those who know it's fake. Because everything's wet, enemies can't feel that the "fog" is dry. Your allies should be familiar enough with your tricks to know better, though, so they can save against it and see through it. Stuff swinging through fog isn't a give-away that it's an illusion, either!

Pick a damage-dealing 0th level spell, and maybe get Magic Missile eventually as a 11st. Get Minor and Major image when they come up. Shadow Conjuration and Shadow Evocation are musts.

Do pick up the Planar Binding spells and Magic Circles Against [Alignment]. You can fin uses for it even when you're not using it for bindings (cheap protection from Domination, for instance), and the bindings are just too good to pass up. (Unless, I suppose, Shadow Conjuration can sufficiently mimic those...I am not sure. I ahven't read it in too long.)

[ZekeTheRogue]

Pick a damage-dealing 0th level spell, and maybe get Magic Missile eventually as a 11st.

Magic Missile. So powerful you have to be level 23 Sorcerer or 22 Wizard to learn it.
Joking aside, thanks for the spell advice. If I remember this post I might pick up a wand or two from that list. I was thinking Invisibility was a given for one of my second level spells. The Mist/water one sounds like cool trickery. I will shamelessly steal that idea if I can.

[Psyren]

I would do Color Spray and Vanish as 1st-level spells. Then at 2+ I would start worrying about non-combat stuff like Silent Image. After all, your main goal is to survive to reach 2nd.

If you want a mix, Color Spray and Silent Image work well. Disguise Self you probably won't need right away.

And remember that most illusions are only as strong as your DM says they are, so sit with him/her and figure out the kinds of things your illusions can reasonably do. Nothing comprehensive, just basic questions like "can I distract a guard" "can I hide behind an illusory wall" "can I cover up a hole in the ground with a fake floor" etc.

[Urpriest]

Just from a fluff perspective, Illusionist Wizard might actually make more sense, since your character sounds like they learned magic from gnomish traditions rather than developed their talent spontaneously.

That said, for a new player Sorceror is probably better.

[ZekeTheRogue]

And remember that most illusions are only as strong as your DM says they are,

Yeah...he loves his blaster casters. This may be concerning.

[Urpriest]

Yeah...he loves his blaster casters. This may be concerning.

If all else fails, when you get to high enough levels Shadow Evocation on a Sorceror is actually a decent blasting option in PF.

[Psyren]

Just from a fluff perspective, Illusionist Wizard might actually make more sense, since your character sounds like they learned magic from gnomish traditions rather than developed their talent spontaneously.

That said, for a new player Sorceror is probably better.

Gnomish traditions can be sorcery too. Remember that PF gnomes have a very fey origin - they all originate from The First World, which is basically Golarion's version of the Feywild.

[ZekeTheRogue]

Just from a fluff perspective, Illusionist Wizard might actually make more sense, since your character sounds like they learned magic from gnomish traditions rather than developed their talent spontaneously.

That said, for a new player Sorceror is probably better.

I think of myself as a rather experienced player. I like wizards for the unlimited choice of spells, but I'm willing to give sorcerer a shot here. I actually had some stats for an illusionist wizard. And with a family tradition of magic, Arcane sorcerer would work just as well as a wizard. I will miss the permanent illusion at level 20(but if I know my friends and I, we will unfortunately lose interest in this campaign, and never reach 20:smallfrown:)

[Urpriest]

I think of myself as a rather experienced player. I like wizards for the unlimited choice of spells, but I'm willing to give sorcerer a shot here. I actually had some stats for an illusionist wizard. And with a family tradition of magic, Arcane sorcerer would work just as well as a wizard. I will miss the permanent illusion at level 20(but if I know my friends and I, we will unfortunately lose interest in this campaign, and never reach 20:smallfrown:)

Ah, I misread the OP and didn't notice that you weren't among the 4 new players.

[ZekeTheRogue]

Ah, I misread the OP and didn't notice that you weren't among the 4 new players.

No worries. I probably should clarify that.

[ZekeTheRogue]

Marley the Illusionist
20 pt buy
Str:8. (0)(-2 gnome)
Dex:14. (-5
Con:12. (0)(+2 gnome)
Int:14. (-5)
Wis:10. (0)
Cha:19. (-10)(+2 gnome,+1 4th level)

I traded hatred and defense for gift of tongues, since he's a talker.

Feats: Spell Focus: Illusion, Greater Spell Focus: Illusion, Expanded Arcana

My skills right now: 5 Diplomacy, 5 Spellcraft, 2 Linguistics, 3 KnowledgeLocal(class skill from arcane bloodline), 3 KnowledgeArcana, 5 UMD, 2 Bluff

Level 0
Daze
Light
Ray of frost
Ghost Sound (illusion)
Mage hand
Prestidigitation

Level 1 (2 from Expanded Arcana)
Disguise Self (illusion)
Color Spray (illusion)
Magic Missile
Silent Image (illusion)
Mage Armor
Ventriloquism (illusion)
Identify

Level 2
Invisibility (illusion)
Mirror Image (illusion)
Minor Image (illusion)

If you guys see something wrong, then tell me.