[DM] - How to explain this? Primal Water Elemental pulling a ship?

[killem2]

If i wanted it this way, how would you explain a Primal Water Elemental, agreeing to be the engine, for a ship of mortals?

[Nettlekid]

There are several vehicles in the Eberron setting that use Elementals as power, most famously the House Lyrandar Airships with their huge ring of fire. Find anything about the Gnomes of Zilargo and their Elemental Binding process, and you can adapt it however you please.

Of course, you could also have a simpler version where you just say there's some sort of tank under the ship where the Elemental lives, and it pushes water out the back to propel the ship forward.

EDIT: Oh wait, I may have misunderstood. Were you asking *how* it would do it, or were you asking something like "What motivations would a Primal Water Elemental ever have for doing this?"

[Tvtyrant]

If i wanted it this way, how would you explain a Primal Water Elemental, agreeing to be the engine, for a ship of mortals?
They agree to increase the amount of water in the world in return. Each ship pulled by a water elemental must also have a Decanter of Endless Water attached to it and running, which very slowly drowns the world.

[Actana]

It might just be really cool for the elemental. Most elementals probably stay where they are born, rarely moving around unless absolutely necessary. This water elemental, however, has the chance to see the world oceans everywhere. It's a great way to be able to experience new things and see new kinds of water bodies and currents.

This does require some sort of idea that elementals aren't allowed traditionally to move around much on their own volition, and thus being bound to a ship is a way to escape that restriction. Would also require that the elemental is treated in a humane(?) way.

[Fouredged Sword]

It is enslaved through arcane magics

It gets to explore the world while under the protection of the ship

It is their nature to flow from one place to another. The mortals simply direct and harness the flow. The elemental barely notices the bit of wood that is carried by it's wake.

[killem2]

There are several vehicles in the Eberron setting that use Elementals as power, most famously the House Lyrandar Airships with their huge ring of fire. Find anything about the Gnomes of Zilargo and their Elemental Binding process, and you can adapt it however you please.

Of course, you could also have a simpler version where you just say there's some sort of tank under the ship where the Elemental lives, and it pushes water out the back to propel the ship forward.

EDIT: Oh wait, I may have misunderstood. Were you asking *how* it would do it, or were you asking something like "What motivations would a Primal Water Elemental ever have for doing this?"

Motivations. I mean, this thing is HUUUUUGE. So I didn't really know how to explain why mere mortals could convince it to do such a mundane task :P

[Actana]

How old is it? If it's sufficiently old (and intelligent enough), the captain of the ship or his ancestor or someone involved helped the elemental in some way, and since it has nothing better to do at the moment, it is repaying the dept. The time it is spending in a ship is nothing compared to the time it has spent in the world, nor the time it will spend. The elemental is ancient, and as long as there is water, the elemental will be part of the world. Spending some time helping a mortal because they owe them? No big deal, just a blink of the elemental's metaphorical eye.

[Fouredged Sword]

Humans invented cookies. Who's a good water elemental? You are, yes you are! Have a cookie! Now Fetch!

[Talionis]

Is friendship viable? Much like a Druid and its Animal Companion. If the ships captain stays with it maybe the elemental enjoys traveling with the captain because they are friends. Much like a horse, I doubt the weight of a ship is a big burden for a correctly sized water elemental.

It might lead to interesting rp if the elemental wants to go somewhere the captain doesn't. Either leaving the ship without the elemental or the elemental pulling the ship where the elemental wanted to be.

[Neknoh]

If you've seen Doctor Who, in particular, the episode Beast Below, think of the ending there.

[killem2]

If you've seen Doctor Who, in particular, the episode Beast Below, think of the ending there.

I'll have to check it out. :smallsmile:

Thanks for all the suggestions thus far.



Small Little hiccup

I don't think a primal elemental is strong enough to pull a ship. :smalleek::smallfrown::smalleek:

[Nettlekid]

I'll have to check it out. :smallsmile:

Thanks for all the suggestions thus far.



Small Little hiccup

I don't think a primal elemental is strong enough to pull a ship. :smalleek::smallfrown::smalleek:

That episode made me cry. It was really sweet.

Maybe not strong enough to like, pull it by a rope, but in the Eberron setting's vehicles I mentioned they bind up to Huge Elementals for propulsion, so surely a Colossal Primal Water Elemental has the juice to get a ship going. Perhaps have it use that Vortex to spin a motor of some sort?

[Kudaku]

Considering the majority of a ship's weight is balanced out by floating on water, I wouldn't use the actual weight of the ship as the encumbrance to move it - rather you need sufficient force to make the ship's mass overcome its inertia and move in the direction you want it to go.

For instance I can pull the 1.4 ton family boat from mooring to mooring with only moderate effort, but I wouldn't be able to move a the boat in the same way if it was grounded! If it was mounted on a boat trailer (favorable conditions) I might be able to move it a short distance if I really put my mind to it, but nowhere near as easily as if it's on water.

That said, that's about the extent of my (sharply limited) science knowledge, so I'm not really sure what's a good formula to convert boat tonnage to "moving encumbrance". I'm sure there are some physics enthusiasts around here who can come up with something though!

[Fouredged Sword]

Actually, in water, pulling a ship is fairly easy. A huge water elemental can pull 14000 lbs along the ground. I think dragging a floating object through the water is a favorable condition, so double that to 24000lbs. That is 12 tons of craft. Not a huge ship, but not a small one ether.

Put a Belt of the Wide Earth on it (made cheeper due to lack of teleport effect) and you double THAT to 24 tons.

If in pathfinder, there are straps that add +8 to the strength score and a belt that multiplies it by 3!

That would get you 62.4 tons.

[TuggyNE]

Actually, in water, pulling a ship is fairly easy. A huge water elemental can pull 14000 lbs along the ground. I think dragging a floating object through the water is a favorable condition, so double that to 24000lbs. That is 12 tons of craft. Not a huge ship, but not a small one ether.

Put a Belt of the Wide Earth on it (made cheeper due to lack of teleport effect) and you double THAT to 24 tons.

If in pathfinder, there are straps that add +8 to the strength score and a belt that multiplies it by 3!

That would get you 62.4 tons.

Since this is a Primal elemental, not a Huge, its base dragging ability is between 333 and 666 tons (favorable). With triple load and +8, you can increase that to 3072 tons, or 6144 if pulling through water is favorable. If you're lugging around 6000+ ton ships, you're probably running a cargo operation, not adventuring, and should reconsider your life choices. :smalltongue:

[hamishspence]

In Arms & Equipment Guide, a Huge Water Elemental is able to power (by turning the propellers of) a submersible (with that submersible having a cargo capacity of 50 tons)

Earlier in the book, it discusses the "pull weight" of drawn vehicles.

Works as follows:

Figure out total weight of vehicle, passengers, cargo, etc.

Divide weight by 4 if it is a wheeled vehicle, 3 if it's an ice sled or water vehicle.

Divide by the number of towing creatures.

Compare to the Carrying Capacity table.

Depending on the creature, it may be appropriate to use the "Quadruped" rule (even if the creature does not have 4 limbs, it may still move in the flattened posture of a quadruped).

The book gives 57 lb as Light Load maximum for a Str 11 Medium porpoise- suggesting that those are quadrupeds for riding/towing purposes - maybe other water monsters are likely to be, as well. However, art tends to depict all elementals including Primal ones as roughly humanoid.

Using 1 ton = 2000 lb,

In water:

A Colossal Str 42 Biped can pull (as Light Load) 132864 lb (66.432 tons)
A Colossal Str 42 Quadruped can pull (as Light Load) 199296 lb (99.648 tons)

A Colossal Str 42 Biped can pull (as Heavy Load) 399360 lb (199.68 tons)
A Colossal Str 42 Quadruped can pull (as Heavy Load) 599040 lb (299.52 tons)

Any more than that, and you can't move at normal speed any more- you'll be moving at 5ft per round, as a full-round action.

[killem2]

I'll just take your guys word for it LOL. Now, I gotta make my own homemade minaiture for this thing. >_>

[TuggyNE]

I'll just take your guys word for it LOL. Now, I gotta make my own homemade minaiture for this thing. >_>

A 5 gallon bucket full of water?

[Jack_Simth]

A 5 gallon bucket full of water?
Nah. Blue jello mold, using the finger jello recipe so it has a reasonable amount of hold together (and you put it on a clear plate to move it around).

[Slipperychicken]

I figured that someone would manage some variation of planar binding on it. Or perhaps mortals enslaved this awesome power through some trickery most foul.

Either way, their great grandchildren shall regret their ancestors' folly once it breaks free and wreaks its terrible vengeance upon them.


Nah. Blue jello mold, using the finger jello recipe so it has a reasonable amount of hold together (and you put it on a clear plate to move it around).

And you get a delicious post-session snack out of the deal too :smallbiggrin:

[CyberThread]

yeah binding works, if you want to do something unique, spirit binding.


It does it, because it is compelled to.


Possible plot line on that

[killem2]

This is great stuff guys. I know, I could easily rule zero it, but I like having something to give a story behind. These players will probably be on this ship for an entire 9 hour session, and I need things to do. haha.