Vanilla Paladin

[lady2beetle]

I know this is not going to be nearly as much fun as other builds, but I have to ask for advice.

New campaign, new DM.
1st level, core rulebooks only.
We are allowed to use the traits and flaws, so I do get 2 extra feats.

I was thinking of playing a paladin, something I've never done before. We have a lot of fighters in the group (and a large group besides), but I thought about making a defense-focused paladin. So...

1st level paladin.
4 feats.
PHB only.
Go!:smallcool:

[Red Fel]

... You're going to be disappointed.

Without at least some non-PHB materials, your Paladin is sorely limited. Using PHB alone, Cleric will do everything your Paladin can do, but better. If you focus on combat, the Fighter will do everything your Paladin can do, but better.

If at all possible, try to at least take some ACFs.

There is a truly exceptional Handbook (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/08/paladins-handbook.html) on the class, and my advice would be to filter through it for PHB content (hint: there's not much) that the guide recommends.

When you say PHB, does that include PHB II? Because if you plan to do a great deal of spelunking, that Special Mount won't do you much good - consider the Charging Smite ACF from PHB II. On the other hand, if you're making solid use of the Special Mount, really milk it - Mounted Combat, Spirited Charge, the works. As a melee type, Power Attack should be a no-brainer for you. Leadership will also be valuable for you, at least inasmuch as it will enable you to take on a cohort who can do the things you can't.

If you have a lot of melee-types in the group, you should ultimately prepare to be rendered redundant. Pure-PHB Paladin is so lackluster as to seem almost like a burden.

I can only suggest that you read the handbook above, and try to find something that works for you. Best of luck.

[tricktroller]

As far as flavor goes, paladins can be a ton of fun. A friend of mine played one wielding a bastard sword and a tower shield as a straight paladin, not optimized at all but she had a ton of fun playing her.

If you want power, don't go Paladin. If you want a fluffy character that is a ton of fun to roleplay then go right ahead.

[Particle_Man]

1st level paladin.
4 feats.
PHB only.
Go!:smallcool:

You are assuming a human with 4 feats, but you could be a gnome or halfling. Then you still get 3 feats (Mounted Combat, Ride By Attack and Spirited Charge) and you can buy a riding dog as soon as you can (save your gold, it is 150 gp) and take the dog into dungeons with you (yeah it is not a special mount yet, but it is still a mount). A Spirited Charge smite evil can be fun and it is the 1st level paladin's "schtick".

The lower movement rate of the small races doesn't matter if you are mounted most of the time. And if you pick "deep halfling" (in the MM which is a core book) you even get darkvision, one of the few ways to do it in the core books with a LA +0 without taking a hit in charisma).

Also, you have detect evil at will. Spam that. It is one of the things paladins are good for, and in some cases can be a poor man's detect invisibility. But that said don't blindly attack anything that "pings" on the evil radar in the local village - just be aware and take care and warn your party.

Oh, and in general talk with your DM ahead of time about what is and is not acceptable behaviour for a paladin. It could save you a lot of grief later on.

Edit: I didn't see the "defense focused" part. Are you talking about tanking to defend others? You might want to consider a Crusader or Knight, as they can "hold" opponents or "make" opponents attack them, whereas monsters could simply ignore your paladin. That said, Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise and Improved Trip (and a reach tripping weapon like a Guisarme, and then maybe armour spikes for close combat) can help.

[Telonius]

Okay, so for Paladin 1...

Power Attack
Mounted Combat
Ride-By Attack
Spirited Charge

These are probably going to be the most useful feats for a standard-issue Paladin in core. You won't get your Special Mount until level 4, but you can still have a regular horse. This setup will let you get the mounted feats out of the way as quickly as possible. I'd put Quick Draw as your 3rd level feat (to draw an extra weapon if somebody closes past your reach if using a lance), then Leadership as your 6th (if it's allowed).

Other than that, there's really not much going on in the core rules. Maybe Combat Expertise/Improved Trip, if you have enough Int for the prerequisite. Combat Reflexes, if your Dex is decent. Improved Initiative's a possibility. Otherwise, just a bunch of boring numerical bonuses for a +1 here or a +2 there.

EDIT: Very much agreed that a Smaller character is usually the way to go ... but if you're set on Human (as 4 feats/PHB only suggests), this would be the way I'd do it.

[JaronK]

I would strongly caution against going with Human on a Horse and specializing in fighting on that Horse. You can't get into a lot of spaces. Doors stop you. DMs love making scenarios where you can't have the horse, and then where are you?

Halfling on a Riding Dog is definitely better. You're small enough to go places that way.

JaronK

[lady2beetle]

Thank you all very much! I honestly hadn't though about the benefits of a small pally. We had our first session on Saturday and I think I'm going to enjoy her a lot! I went with gnome because of the con bonus. I couldn't afford a mount with the starting gold, but we decided to go back to town after our first session and sell all our loot, so next week, she'll be sporting a brand new riding dog!

So, any tips or tricks for using mounted combat?

Also, three quick questions.

1. I wanted to get my riding dog some barding, and according to the PHB, it's just the same as armor for a non-humanoid medium creature (2x cost, etc). But my dog doesn't have any armor proficiencies. Will he be penalized for wearing barding?

2. The PHB says I need a DC20 ride check to control a mount who isn't trained for battle while in combat. With horses, that's easy - you need a warhorse. But what about riding dogs? Can I assume the riding dog I purchase is trained for battle?

3. DC10 Ride check says: "Fight with Warhorse: If you direct your war-trained mount to attack in battle, you can still make your own attack or attacks normally. This usage is a free action." Does this a) work with a riding dog, and b) work if I'm using ride by attack? Can I charge, attack with my lance, let my dog attack, then charge away?

I had a question about failing to guide with my knees, but then I realized that even at level 1, I can't fail, so we're all good. ;)

[Telonius]

Thank you all very much! I honestly hadn't though about the benefits of a small pally. We had our first session on Saturday and I think I'm going to enjoy her a lot! I went with gnome because of the con bonus. I couldn't afford a mount with the starting gold, but we decided to go back to town after our first session and sell all our loot, so next week, she'll be sporting a brand new riding dog!

So, any tips or tricks for using mounted combat?

Also, three quick questions.

1. I wanted to get my riding dog some barding, and according to the PHB, it's just the same as armor for a non-humanoid medium creature (2x cost, etc). But my dog doesn't have any armor proficiencies. Will he be penalized for wearing barding?

2. The PHB says I need a DC20 ride check to control a mount who isn't trained for battle while in combat. With horses, that's easy - you need a warhorse. But what about riding dogs? Can I assume the riding dog I purchase is trained for battle?

3. DC10 Ride check says: "Fight with Warhorse: If you direct your war-trained mount to attack in battle, you can still make your own attack or attacks normally. This usage is a free action." Does this a) work with a riding dog, and b) work if I'm using ride by attack? Can I charge, attack with my lance, let my dog attack, then charge away?

I had a question about failing to guide with my knees, but then I realized that even at level 1, I can't fail, so we're all good. ;)

For all three of these, you'd need to check with the DM. Monster Manual 2 has the "Warbeast" template that grants proficiency with barding, and states that "a few 'war' creatures" are already statted in Monster Manual 1. The Riding Dog (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#dogRiding) entry in the equipment page (but not the monster manual entry) says it's "brave in combat like a warhorse." Personally I'd say it's just an oversight, and allow Riding Dog and Heavy and Light Warhorses to have proficiencies; but check with the DM.

For 3, that is an excellent question. Mounted Combat works very strangely, as-written. It's actually mentioned fairly early on the "Dysfunctional rules" thread, here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11828456&postcount=78). Especially if you're using a lance, the rules just plain don't work. However, in every actual in-game instance I've ever seen, it just gets handwaved, and the mount can make an attack on a ride-by if it's within reach of the target (assuming you make the ride check). I'd strongly suggest confirming with your DM that this is how it's going to work at your table.