Treant Sapling for 3.5 pls

[DrkMagusX]

Could someone assist in converting a treant sapling to 3.5 for a druid companion? Would it have a first tier animal companion or second.
I have a warforged that worships Mieikki pardon spelling and honors treants.
Please help and assist in this conversion or help create stat box.

[Urpriest]

What sorts of traits do you want a treant sapling to have? It isn't already a creature in 3.5, so you have to tell us what are important qualities you want it to possess.

[DrkMagusX]

Below is the stat blocks for Pathfinder Plant companions. Treat sapling is the last one. I was hoping to get that one converted to 3.5 . Added the others for bonus material.




Carnivorous Flower

Starting Statistics

Size Small; Speed 30 ft., climb 10 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6);
Ability Scores Str 10, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10;
Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.

4th-Level Advancement

Size Medium; Attack bite (2d6);
Ability Scores Str +4, Dex –2, Con +2;
Special Attacks rage (1/day, as the barbarian class feature for 6 rounds).

Crawling Vine

Starting Statistics

Size Medium; Speed 20 ft., climb 20 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Attack slam (1d4);
Ability Scores Str 13, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2;
Special Attacks grab; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.

4th-Level Advancement

Size Large; AC +1 natural armor; Attack slam (1d6);
Ability Scores Str +8, Dex –2, Con +4; Special Attacks constrict 1d6.

Puffball (Floating Fungus)

Starting Statistics

Size Small; Speed 20 ft., fly 60 ft. (average); AC +1 natural armor; Attack thorn (1d4 plus poison);
Ability Scores Str 10, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 6;
Special Attacks poison (Frequency 1 round [6], Effect 1 Con damage, Cure 1 save, Con-based DC);
Special Qualities low-light vision.

4th-Level Advancement

Ability Scores Str +2, Con +2.

Sapling Treant

Starting Statistics

Size Medium; Speed 30 ft., climb 30 ft.; AC +1 natural armor; Attack 2 slams (1d6);
Ability Scores Str 15, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7;
Special Qualities double damage against objects, low-light vision.

4th-Level Advancement

Size Large; AC +2 natural armor; Attack 2 slams (1d8);
Ability Scores Str +8, Dex –2, Con +4.

[Uncle Pine]

Dragon Magazine #357 has fully customizable plant companions that grow as you r druid level increases. You might want to have a look at it to create your treant sapling companion.

[Fouredged Sword]

Isn't there a treant racial class that starts out small and with a dex bonus, then grows bigger and stronger with levels? Just use that at 1HD for the companion.

[DrkMagusX]

The plant companion in the Dragon Magazine seems very under powered. Thats why I figure a straight conversion of the pathfinder would be better.

Compare the Drg Mag one to other choices the druid gets and it will always fall short. If Plant Traits is such a big issue just tone it down much like the Warforged is. 25% chance or something.

Just thought it fitting for a character so close to nature could develop a bond with those he honors so much. I thought of maybe they trusted him with teaching and care of a treant sapling as part of a duty he has chosen to one of the treants he serves.

Anyhow lets come up with something that feels balanced and not super underpowered.

[Urpriest]

Hmm...does it bother anyone else that the Sapling Treant still has Int 2? You're choosing a baby intelligent creature as your companion, after all...seems a little weird no matter how you slice it.

[Yogibear41]

How about this, take the stat block that you have and use it for a start then use the animal companion advancement table as normal in the druid section of the PHB until you get to level 7.

Once you are level 7 start using the treat stat block that is in the MM, except reduce its size from huge to large and apply the start modifiers given on page 291, so -8 str +2 dex -4 con -3 natural armor, giving you a 7 HD plant with a STR of 21, DEX of 10, CON of 17, 10 natural armor, and 2 slams for 1d8+5, and do the your level -6 for the chart in the PHB to determine bonus HD and abilities.

Compared to a Brown Bear companion of the same level it has a higher AC 1 more HD, but reduced # of attacks and damage on those attacks, but it also has a high intelligence, plant traits, and damage reduction.


And then once you get to level 13 simply reverse the size reduction previously put on it returning it to huge and reversing the ability score modifiers and natural armor, but continuing to follow the your level -6 on the chart.

This will give you an 11 hd treat AC of 24 Str of 31 and 2 slams for 2d6+10

Compared to a Dire Bear of the same level 12 HD AC of 17 Str of 31 2 Claws 2d4+10 and Bite 2d8+5

The treat does less damage but should have about the same HD, all and all it is superior to the dire bear IMO and might need a little tweaking to reduce it due to its superior Int and other special qualities but for a quick job I think I did a decent. :smallsmile:

[Uncle Pine]

Sapling Treant

Starting Statistics

Size Medium; Speed 30 ft., climb 30 ft.; AC +1 natural armor; Attack 2 slams (1d6);
Ability Scores Str 15, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7;
Special Qualities double damage against objects, low-light vision.

4th-Level Advancement

Size Large; AC +2 natural armor; Attack 2 slams (1d8);
Ability Scores Str +8, Dex –2, Con +4.


The plant companion in the Dragon Magazine seems very under powered. Thats why I figure a straight conversion of the pathfinder would be better.

I disagree. Let's compare the PF sapling treant and the DM plant companion (I didn't list the normal extra HD, AC bonus and Str/Dex bonus):

{table=head] |Treant sapling|Plant companion|Notes
Racial HD|1 HD|1 HD|+1 RHD for every istance of Powerful
Size|Large|Large|With Growth Spur
Speed|30 ft., climb 30 ft.|30 ft.|+10 ft. for every istance of Swift
AC|+3 natural|+5 natural|With Growth Spur; +3 for every istance of Iron Bark
Attacks|2 slams|2 slams|With Alacrity
Damage|1d8|1d6|
Ability scores|Str 23, Dex 8, Con 16, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7|Str 20, Dex 8, Con 18, Int 2, Wis 10, Cha 10|+2 Str, +2 Con for every istance of Oakenbough
Relevant SA/SQ|None|None|[/table]

To be on par (with slightly better AC and slightly lower damage output) with a treant sapling, a plant companion need to select Growth Spur and Alacrity. The former needs 3 levels to manifest, the latter only 1. This means if you select Growth Spur at 1st level and Alacrity at 2nd level, your plant companion will be as effective as a PF treant sapling at 4th level. Sure, it'll probably be less effective than a fleshraker, but it's definitely not underpowered (at least if you don't consider the PF treant sapling underpowered).
In fact, the DM plant companion grows more versatile than the PF treant sapling after 4th level. Here is a list of the useful abilities that you can choose for a plant companion (and how many levels they need to fully manifest) while your treant sapling cries in the corner without getting any other bonus:
- Blindsight: Blindsight 30 ft. 2 levels.
- Blunting Mold: Slashing and piercing weapons that strike the animal companion deal half damage until the user spend 1 standard action wiping off the mold. 3 levels.
- Bonus feat: A bonus feat. (http://cdn.avsforum.com/e/e0/e0b2cbf7_you-dont-say.jpeg) 1 level.
- Distracting Pollen: Every 5 rounds, as a standard action, 20% miss chance to all the creatures in a 10-ft. radius for 1d4 rounds. 2 levels.
- Iron Bark: +3 natural armor. Can be selected multiple times. Requires two istances of Powerful. 2 levels.
- Oakenbough: +2 Str, +2 Con. Can be selected multiple times. 2 levels.
- Poisonous: 1d3 Dex/1d3 Dex poison on every natural attack. Dex damage is always welcome, even with low DC. 3 levels.
- Powerful: +1 RHD. Increases BAB, saves, feats etc. Stacks with extra HDs granted by your druid levels. Can be selected multiple times. 1 level.
- Roots: Fast healing 1. Nice for downtime healing. 3 levels.
- Spines: Pityful ranged attacks, but it's still a ranged attack after all. 1 level.
- Sticky Sap: Force a Str check every time a foe attacks with a melee weapon. If you win the Str check, the weapon becomes stuck (standard action that provokes AoO and a Str check to pull). 5 levels.
- Tendrils: Doubles reach. 2 levels.
- Tremorsense: Tremorsense 60 ft. 1 level.

Long story short, if you think that a straight PF conversion would be fine, I tell you that you'd be better off using the plant companion ACF: it's simply better.

[Urpriest]

I don't think that's an especially relevant standard, though, PF companions are intentionally worse than 3.5 ones.

The question is, how good should it be? What 3.5 companions are you hoping for it to be equivalent to?

[DrkMagusX]

The Dragon Magazine animal companion one states this for Growth Spurt:
Your plant companion increases to size large. See page 291 of the Monster Manual for information about creatures that increase in size. You must select Powerful at least twice prior to taking Ironbark. Your plant companion gains this ability after 3 levels.

That looks like you have to have the abilities Powerful X2 and Ironbark x1 already manifested before u can select Growth spurt.

Now lets look at Ironbark:
Your plant companion's natural armor increases by +3. You must select Powerful at least once prior to taking Ironbark. Your plant companion gains this ability after 2 levels.

And Powerful:
Your plant companion gains +1 Hit Die. Your plant companion gains this ability after 1 level.


You may select a new ability for your plant companion at any druid or ranger level in which a previously selected ability does not manifest. Your plant companion can only evolve one new ability at a time.

I don't understand how I can take growth spurt at first. Please break it down level by level and what I would take and when.

[Yogibear41]

I'm guessing that the mention of Ironbark in growth spurts description is a misprint and it meant to say you need to take powerful twice before taking growth spurt. Going by that you would:

1.Select Powerful at 1st level, which would manifest at level 2 for +1 HD
2.Select nothing at level 2 since powerful manifested
3. Select Powerful at level 3, which would manifest at level 4 for +1 HD(+2 total)
4. Select nothing at level 4
5. Select Growth Spurt at level 5, which would manifest at level 8
6. You may not select abilities at level 6,7, or 8 but may once again start at level 9

If you must select Ironbark before growth spurt you would repeat steps 1-4 as above then:

5. Select Iron Bark at level 5, which would manifest at level 7
6. You may not select abilities at level 6 or 7.
8. Select Growth Spurt at level 8, which would manifest at level 11
9. You may not select abilities at level 9, 10, or 11 but may once again start at level 12

[Uncle Pine]

6. You may not select abilities at level 6,7, or 8 but may once again start at level 9

Actually, the text is: "You may select a new ability for your plant companion at any druid or ranger level in which a preciously selected ability does not manifest." If you select Growth Spurt at 5th level, it will only manifest at 8th level and thus you'll be able to select other abilities when you hit 6th and 7th level (unless you pick an ability that manifests 1 level later at 6th level).


I don't understand how I can take growth spurt at first. Please break it down level by level and what I would take and when.

You can't. You need Powerful two times before Growth Spurt (assuming that the Ironbark reference is a misprint, whick probably is). I don't know how I could miss that. :smallsigh:

Btw, breaking down level by level:
1st - Select Powerful (I)
2nd - Manifest Powerful (I)
3rd - Select Powerful (II)
4th - Manifest Powerful (II)
5th - Select Growth Spurt
6th - Select Alacrity
7th - Manifest Alacrity
8th - Manifest Growth Spur

So, to update my previous statement: at 4th level, a plant companion will be Medium sized with 1 slam attack and 3 RHDs compared with a Large treant sapling with 2 slam attacks and 1 RHD. However, from 8th level onward, your animal companion will be more powerful than a treant sapling.
I didn't know that PF animal companion where made intentionally worse than 3.5's, although it's quite obvious at first glance that they are. I do think that a Large buddy with immunity to crits and 20 ft. reach (with Tendrils) wouldn't be that bad. Plus, Blunting Mold and Sticky Sap could be used as a form of debuff.
Really, it all depends on what level of optimization you aim to achieve.